Another lava flow is coming down on the Big Island that threatens to cut off residents from “civilization”. Last time this happened, beginning almost 30 years ago, it was really just one small subdivision – Royal Gardens. RG was cut off, and the last resident finally left RG just 2 years ago - a day before his house was covered by lava. Another larger community – Kalapana/Kaimu – was completely wiped out…black sand beaches, basketball court, Walter’s store, all gone.

Looks like it’s happening again, only this time a much larger community is affected. Pahoa town is just downhill from the lava flow now. Where the flow will go, no one knows. Schools, churches, senior center, fire station, post office, homes, farms, many stores, and several restaurants, etc. all threatened. And wherever the lava flow goes, if it reaches the ocean, most of Lower Puna District with many small communities, farms, ocean parks, and more pristine rural areas will be cut off - at least until another road is made through an older lava flow (a couple of roads were made there already, but were soon covered over with lava again). If a road is built there again, the drive will be a very long commute (70+ miles) from Pahoa to Volcano Village and then down to Hilo for supplies. And who knows how long the road will last?

So, what would you do? Would you abandon your home/garden/etc. to get onto the civilization side of the flow before it reaches the ocean? Or would you stay home, with no access to a job, no stores (no health food store), no school for your kids, and of course no electricity, public water source, or reliable emergency services? Plus an ever-looming threat of lava covering your house (but could be many years, if ever). And lots of coconuts, fruit trees, and ocean.

WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

My home is upper Puna, so not affected. Should I trade with someone on the other side of the flow? I'm not seriously thinking about it yet, but the thought has crossed my mind. I don't mean to make light of the very serious issues involved here though for so many people who will soon be refugees in my own community. Really, it's frightening. There are no extra homes for them and no place to go. This is an island, and the poverty rate is high.

WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

(I probably should have put that in the "other topics" forum). I don't mind if you move it Prana.

WOuld I stay and watch lava flow flow me away, is that the question?

My answer, well, here a few cities over from me there was a major landslide. It probably killed people we know, lots went missing. That was sudden, and fast. Lava flow I am told is slow, right? I think I would leave yes, until I knew the threat was over.

There is no such thing as poverty, we are far far richer than all the egyptian pharoahs, just as it is. Life truly is royal when you are on the raw food diet. It truly is elite in a good way. You cant be poor with good health.

Survival preparedness, an emergency bug out location and backpack, I think one should prepare for.

A small backpack, kept behind a couch or door, with knive, silverware, pot, camping type stuff, maybe a tarp, dehydrated fruits, nuts, compass, map of caves around you...





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2014 05:28PM by coconutcream.

Thank you cococream for your response. I'm trying to picture leaving until the threat is over and then going back. Yes the lava flow is slow here usually. Problem is, if the flow reaches the ocean, it's very iffy whether people will be able to travel across it to get back and forth to their homes. The lava could continue to flow hot just under a crust, so building a road may not be feasible.

When Royal Gardens was isolated, the flow was eventually I think about 2 miles wide, and Royal Gardens became like a ghost town. There was no way to drive over the hardened flow, because it was way too rough. Each time a road was built, it was soon covered with lava. You could walk over it, and many people did. I did, because my boyfriend (now husband) lived there. But there were dangerous spots where the crust was thin. One time my husband carried a full propane tank over the flow for a friend in RG. The crust was hot, and the soles of his shoes started melting. He had to run. Never again.
(Can you imagine? - a propane tank!)

There's no more Royal Gardens or Kalapana, and it's very difficult picturing no more Pahoa and no more majority of lower Puna. I mentioned the poverty rate because so many people there won't be able to afford moving expenses off the island, and there are very few available rentals on the island. I don't know where all these people will go. It's very sad and scary.

There's a large alternative community in lower Puna, including Native Hawaiians, and many are considering staying there and accepting that they will be cut off. It's difficult to leave such a place, even if the lava is coming straight to your house. Some of the long-term Kalapana residents had to be carried out by Civil Defense when the lava reached their homes, because they wouldn't leave.

So that's why I asked, what would you do? Would you stay and be cut off from civilization? The lava might never come to your house. It's a very large area there. And of course, you wouldn't be able to sell your house.

I guess I'm venting here (like the volcano). I think my question is: How would you feel about being completely cut off from civilization for an indefinite period of time?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2014 08:22PM by suncloud.

Well, if you read the mike adams preparedness post I posted, he says Ebola will pass through this entire country entire world possibly, and we will have to stay inside for about 2 weeks, without any contact with anyone...so to be prepared.

How would I feel? I would keep myself busy sprouting , writing, maybe online if we still have power..growing things, writing a book...sunbathing. It would be cool if we can all chit chat.

But I have a family. I have pets. I have energy to do something productive with my time.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2014 06:24PM by coconutcream.

Well then, regarding concerns Mike Adams has stated: if lower Puna is totally cut off by lava, the residents who stay there will be safer from ebola....

On the other hand, good point about having energy to remain productive.

The maps in this link show how close the lava is to Pahoa and Hiway 130 (as of yesterday).

[hvo.wr.usgs.gov]

If the flow goes over Hiway 130 and on down to the ocean, everything to the right of the flow is cut off. If you click on the second map, then click on it again, it is enlarged enough to see little squares indicating where houses are (scroll to right).



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2014 08:48PM by suncloud.

First I'd be very thankful that it's such a very polite volcano as volcanos go. Many volcanos erupt with a massive instant blast and kill everyone with little or no warning.

In Iceland they stopped a massive lava flow by spraying it with a huge volume of sea water.

You could jack the house up on steel supports and enshroud it in reflective metal (even aluminum foil may work). The lava would flow under.

Could a dike work? Is there volcano insurance? Those affected could apply, with the help of state representatives, to the federal government for disaster assistance.

In Machu Pichu they built farm land on a rocky barren mountainside. Perhaps it could be done in Hawaii on a lava field. Pack in soil and replant.

For those looking for a place:

1. The further from the volcano the better. Upwind of the volcano (to the NE ) for best air quality.

2. Check the topography of the land carefully to assess relative danger. Higher ridges are safer. Lower areas more dangerous.

Hi Brome,

Thanks for your interest. I think you are right that Pele' (Hawaii's volcano Goddess) is very polite as far as volcanoes go. Her flow is very slow. When Kalapana was threatened, some people took apart entire houses, packed up the materials and moved them, because they had that much time to plan.

And Pele' has created hundreds of new acres of land on the island, just within the last 3 decades.

In recent years, people have bought land on the cooled Kalapana lava flow (very cheap). There are no trees, no services, nothing - but there are structures again. The landscape is bleak, especially compared to what it once was. But plants grow. (I think there's no insurance available.)

On the Iceland incident: coincidentally, our local paper had an article today referring to probably the same incident, but it doesn't look so helpful after all.

According to a discussion cited in the article with Harry Kim (our former Civil Defense Administrator), it seems that the real reason the Iceland lava flow stopped was because the eruption stopped:

[media.hawaiitribune-herald.com]

The article is called "Lava Diversion: Is it possible?" and it goes into some detail about past attempts at diversion. There's also a pretty cool photo of a bulldozer building a rock wall in front of an advancing lava flow.

On the Big Island, both Mauna Kea and Kilauea have erupted within the past 30 years. When Mauna Kea erupts, the eruption doesn't last very long, so diversions that might buy a little time (like the one in Iceland) might possibly be more feasible.

But this current flow is from Kilauea (the Pu'u O'o vent), and Pu'u O'o is relentless. To my knowledge, it has almost never stopped since it started in 1983. Here's a brief history:

[www.soest.hawaii.edu]

Another diversion tactic that's been discussed is bombing the volcano to create a different downhill path.

Many Native Hawaiians are opposed to any type of diversion effort, because Pele' is a Goddess.

I don't know about building a house up on steel supports and expecting the lava to flow under. Seems like the steel would melt, and some of the flows might also be higher than the supports. Plus just the heat of the flow could catch the house on fire.

Possibly an interesting experiment, but I wouldn't want to be in the house when the lava came. Uh uh.

As you mentioned, the government (through FEMA I think) helped when the lava came before. There was controversy when insurance companies refused to cover houses wiped out by lava, but they ended up having to compensate wherever the owners had policies. Some houses were surrounded by lava and couldn't be accessed, but owners were not compensated until the lava actually took their house (fire insurance).

Today, insurance companies are not allowed to cancel policies, but they can refuse to renew. The Pahoa Medical Clinic received a notice last week that their insurance would not be renewed in November. But when this was reported in the paper, the insurance company changed their position.

On the Big Island, we have "Lava Zones" and "Tsunami Zones", and insurance coverage could depend on which zone you live in.

Update: Lava flow has entered Kaohe subdivision.

Flow is within Kaohe Homesteads subdivision in an area with forest and no houses. Here are pictures, as of Sept. 15.

[hvo.wr.usgs.gov]

In the pictures, it looks like houses in Kaohe could be uphill from the flow. That's good news for people in Kaohe! But the flow is heading toward crossing the highway and possibly hitting Pahoa (town) direct. Two new dirt roads are being contructed at the ocean side (makai) of the highway to provide access into Pahoa, Kaohe, and most of lower Puna if the highway closes. If the flow goes to the ocean, the new roads will be closed too.

Oh wow, that looks scary.

For a while, the flow had stalled, and it bypassed Kaohe Homestead. But it's on the move again and approaching Pahoa.

Here's some pretty good close-up video footage of the moving flow. (3 minutes)

[www.bigislandvideonews.com]

The map linked below shows how far the lava has come since around the time of my last post Sept. 17. You can scroll down to the second map to see where it was yesterday (Sept. 24), and also see an arrow indicating where it was on Sept. 12. The little loop just left of the flow tip is the Pahoa transfer station (residential trash is dumped there and then hauled away). This morning, the flow crossed Apa'a street, where the transfer station is located.

[hvo.wr.usgs.gov]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2014 11:31PM by suncloud.

Dear suncload

Wow, this sounds really serious. I don't know what I would do. If I could, I would run away. Despite the fruit trees, I would not be keen on living in a risky place in the first place. What can poor people do? Where can they go? This is not an easy situation, and I hope that the community will look after those less fortunate.

take care,
Gosia


RawGosia channel
RawGosia streams

Thank you rawgosia. Yes, everyone is concerned about this. Where will people go, especially if the lava reaches the ocean and cuts off all the roads? Most of those who are already leaving will be staying with friends at least for a while.

Here's another short video of the lava crossing Apa'a St.
[www.bigislandvideonews.com]

As of 1:00 PM today (Oct. 25), the flow was 1 km (0.6 miles) from Pahoa and expected to pick up speed after it moves through the nearby cemetery.

There's a utility pole on the right of the screen. It's wrapped in an experimental protective device. I don't think this will work (!), but I guess we'll see....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2014 07:26AM by suncloud.

Mike Adams is full of crap, scare monger for profit...

<<<Mike Adams is full of crap, scare monger for profit...>>>

Exactly, but he's part of the Controlled Opposition, just like Alex Jones, so they both still have to disseminate useable information at the same time. The tricky part for most people is knowing what is useable and what is BS.

Lava has moved through the Pahoa Buddhist cemetery and is about 100 yards from the nearest residence. Part of the main street through Pahoa has been closed, except to residents while they are evacuating.

This is a video from yesterday that includes footage of the lava as it moves through the cemetery:

[www.bigislandvideonews.com]

Residents prepare to leave:

[www.bigislandvideonews.com]

Want to see how a coconut is opened in Hawaii? Here's of video of some of our wonderful Puna-tics waiting for the flow to cross Pahoa Village Road.

[www.bigislandvideonews.com]

Lava is stalled. A guy bulldozed a berm behind his house. The lava came right up to it, but now it has to go around. Lava is less than 500 feet from Pahoa Village Road. There are some lava breakouts further up the flow, so we really don't know what will happen or when.

[www.bigislandvideonews.com]

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