in this video that coconutcream will paraphrase lorenlockman explains the natural hygiene position on juicing and it's harms etc [www.youtube.com]

life vs lifelessness

Cannot watch video at work.
Can you summarize

WHere is the techno music.

Wow he likes juicing, orange color skin when people drink carrot juice. It was that her body was forced to pushed keratines through the skin.

Is he saying juicing is bad? Yes, this is under the video
""Juicing goes against peoples health and causes a host of problems for people""

Oh god. Please.I love juice. I do not juice carrot everyday. I juice APPLES!!! and OJ everyday!!!
There is some real gossip on him on the internet. I dont want to repeat or share here. Out of respect for my fellow raw vegans. I am trying to turn over a new leaf.

NEVER EAT LEAF YOU CAN MAKE A PAIR OF SHOES OUT OF! He says, ok...

SO many rules.

break the laws of nature , nature breaks you

life vs lifelessness

First of all, the average person cannot go from 5 to 10 grams of Fiber a day to 50 to 60 grams, which means that Juices can be used as a Transition to help people get the Nutrients they need without overwhelming their System.

Secondly, Herbert Shelton hit the nail on the head on pages 205-206 in “Fasting for Renewal of Life” when he wrote, “What good does it do a man to take food, even the finest food, if he is unable to digest and assimilate it? It is first necessary to restore digestive and assimilative power--by removing the causes of impairment and providing adequate rest of the nutritive for functional restoration.”

The problem here, however, is that most people have too many Environmental Toxins to do a Water Fast safely and most people are NOT Willing (terrified of the idea) and/or Not Able (No Time and/or Money) to do a Water Fast, which means that we must Modify “what used to be the best preparation for a better way of life” and that’s where the Juice Fast or the Juice Feast comes into play.

Now let’s take a closer look at Loren’s Video, which includes my (JR) comments.

JR’s Notes:

0:04 MM
Someone was saying that because of our depleted soils, we MUST Juice!

JR’s Comment: That’s a Straw Man Argument!

0:20 MM
You drink a lot of Carrot Juice don’t you? Her skin was a distinctive orange color.

JR’s Comment: I’ve drunk a lot of Carrot Juice and I NEVER turned orange or developed a yellowish hue. Dr. Norman Walker writes about skin discoloration on page 33 in "Fresh Vegetable and Fruit Juices" and on pages 90 & 91 in "The Vegetarian Guide to Diet & Salad." Walker writes on page 90 that this yellowish hue "to be the result of the coagulated bile in the liver dissolving so fast that sluggish kidneys and bowels were not able to take care of its elimination quickly enough resulting in the lymph carrying this excess debris to the surface for elimination through the pores of the skin."

3:02 MM
People drinking Green Juices are consuming 3 or more heads of lettuce or some other Greens every single day and that’s a problem because Greens are 50% Protein.

JR’s Comment: Yes, some of the Greens, like Spinach are 50% Protein, but when Juiced, are only 40%, and all of the rest of the Greens when Juiced, are in the 20% range. For example, Spinach has 40%, Romaine Lettuce has 23%, Kale has 22%, Parsley has 27%, Chard has 31%, Dandelion Greens has 21% and Carrots have just under 10% Protein! And then, most of these Green Juices are diluted with Carrot Juice (or Cucumber and/or Celery Juice) in a 2 to 1 ratio or even a 3 to 1 ratio and if we Juice Romaine Lettuce with Carrot Juice, we get 13% Protein in a 2:1 ratio and 12% in a 3:1 ration!

4:30 MM
People tell me every day, if I don’t drink my Green Juice, I don’t feel good.

JR’s Comment: That could be another Straw Man Argument because I don’t need Green Juices to feel good and I don’t feel bad if I don’t drink Green Juices. Or those who don’t feel good unless they drink their Green Juice maybe one of the 80% of the population that is Magnesium Deficient and those people feel good when they eat chocolate because chocolate is high in Magnesium, just like Green Juices are high in Magnesium.

5:41 MM
Green Juices are 50% Protein with no fiber. Excess Protein acts as a stimulant in the body.

JR’s Comment: Once again, hardly anyone is drinking pure Green Juice and even if we take the highest Green in Protein, Spinach, we only get 18% Protein in a 2:1 ratio and 16% in a 3:1 ration, which is a FAR cry from 50%!

6:31 MM
Juices are Oxidized…

JR’s Comment: Loren obviously got these ideas on Oxidation from Shelton - see PS below and I’ll include the one sentence in particular that applies to Juicing below, but Loren must not have read what Shelton also wrote about Juicing that I included below that.

Our refusal to grate salads, slice peaches and to follow the fad of extracting juices from vegetables here at the Health School has been fully justified by the results of these experiments.

Once again, the sentence above comes from the PS below and it sort of contradicts what Shelton writes below, both of which come from the same book - Volume II - The Science and Fine Art of Food and Nutrition, which by the way is one of my favorite books.

“It was found by certain British and German investigators that the addition of fresh carrot juice or raw spinach juice to the diet of children suffering with severe scurvy results in recovery. The addition of fresh vegetable juices to the diet has given excellent results in many cases of malnutrition. The same is true of fruit juices. It is amusing to see the "discovery" of their value trumpeted to the world as a "brilliant medical discovery," thirty years after it was rejected by the medical profession as nonsense of the faddists and quacks. We faddists and quacks were not dismayed by their taunts and are now triumphantly right.

Changes in the urine prove positively that metabolism is improved by the liberal use of fruits and green vegetables or their juices. The urine finds particularly indicate a more complete protein transformation and oxidation. The improvement in adults is not so quickly gained as in the young, but is finally by just as positive.

These juices are valuable not alone in malnutritional states in children, but also in chronic diseases in children and adults. Their excesses of bases supply needed basic salts to the body and enable it to sweep itself free of acids. But the juice of no food is as valuable as the food itself.” -Herbert Shelton, Volume II - The Science and Fine Art of Food and Nutrition, pp. 406-407

15:08 MM
When people are finished here, when they have given their body a chance to truly cleanse and heal and they eat properly, nobody has digestive complaints.

Remember, you can’t improve on whole foods. Let’s just take Nature’s beautiful gifts to us and eat them in as whole of a way as we can.

JR’s Comment: Once again, most people have too many Environmental Toxins to do a Water Fast safely and most people are NOT Willing (terrified of the idea) or Not Able (No Time and/or Money) to do a Water Fast, which means that we must Modify “what used to be the best preparation for a better way of life” and that’s where the Juice Fast or the Juice Feast comes into play.

PS Here is the section from Shelton where Loren got his ideas on Oxidation:

4. Salad vegetables should not be broken, diced, hashed, cut, sliced, etc. This causes vital losses by oxidation.

While we have long observed that foods lose their palatableness and undergo obvious changes upon being cut, sliced, shredded, etc., as a result of oxidation, only recently has it been shown that these measures, so popular with those who like their salads shredded and their peaches sliced, cause a loss and destruction of vitamins.

The results of some of these latest tests will help us to appreciate the value of natural foods in their natural state.

Analyses for vitamin C showed that approximately 10% of this is lost during the six minutes required to shred the cabbage and an additional loss of 4% occurs in the 10 minutes required to mix a dressing for the salad. The additional loss when the cabbage was chopped rather than shredded was 4%. The finer the cabbage is shredded or chopped and the longer it stands before being eaten, the greater is the loss of this vitamin.

Dr. Fredrick F. Tisdall of Toronto, Canada reported astonishing losses of vitamin C from foods as a result of processing. His report was made before the American Institute of Nutrition. He says the mere act of grating either raw apples or raw potatoes causes a complete disappearance of vitamin C. The mere act of chewing these foods causes the destruction of half their vitamin C. "Thank God for the tomato and the orange!" he exclaimed. "They don't act in the same way."

Other investigators reported comparable losses from other foods. For example, when Savoy cabbage is chopped it loses much of its ascorbic acid. Even the type of chopper makes a difference. One chopper destroyed thirty per cent of this vitamin in a few minutes, while a different type of machine destroyed sixty-five per cent.

Recent reports state that two British scientific workers, Doctors Frank Wokes and J. G. Organ, of Kings Langely, England, have discovered that vitamin C is destroyed by ascorbic oxidase--ascorbic acid oxidase. Ascorbic oxidase is produced in large amounts when fresh fruits and vegetables are cut. The report tells us that "being set free, through cutting, the oxidase attacks vitamin C contained in these chopped up vegetables and fruits." Then it also reports that "In tomatoes, for example, the oxidase is present in the skin. If a tomato is sliced into large pieces much less oxidase is freed than if the pieces are small."

The "report," as it comes to us through the newspaper, is a bit confused or garbled. We interpret it to mean that oxidase is present in certain parts of the fruits and vegetables and is released in the shredding and cutting processes and mixed with the general substance of the food. Coming in contact with vitamin C the oxidase causes it to unite with oxygen--the familiar process of oxidation--and, thus, destroys the vitamin C.

The British investigators found that when lettuce is shredded it loses 80 per cent of its vitamin C in one minute. Using oranges, cabbages and other fruits and vegetables in these experiments they found the same thing. They found that ripe tomatoes lost much less vitamin C than did the green ones on being chopped into small pieces. In all green leafy vegetables destruction of vitamin C was very marked. It was found that mincing of fruits and vegetables is harmful in that it deprives the body of vitamin C.

From these findings it is evident that foods lose more than color and flavor when they are chopped, grated, ground or mashed in the preparation of salads and juices, or in being cut up for cooking purposes.

These facts are expected to result in a complete re-examination of all of our vitamin-food standards. Heretofore these standards have been concerned only with the amount of vitamin in the food. They have taken no account of the actual amount of vitamin that reaches the body. The destruction of vitamins by processing and cooking, and by chewing, has been more or less ignored, especially in practice.

There is nothing new in the discovery that cutting fruits and vegetables into small pieces and permitting the air to reach them, results in oxidation. That the foods undergo changes in color, flavor and odor is apparent to all. These changes are results of chemical changes in the foods and these changes result largely from oxidation.

In 1928 when, Dr. Shelton's Health School was founded, the rule was instituted that fruits and vegetables are not to be shredded, diced or cut into small pieces and this rule is rarely varied from. Fruits are served whole, even tomatoes are served whole, or in large pieces. We have avoided oxidation of foods as much as possible. Our refusal to grate salads, slice peaches and to follow the fad of extracting juices from vegetables here at the Health School has been fully justified by the results of these experiments.

Much of the damages of foods that result from cooking are due to oxidation--heat instead of oxidase being the catalytic agent--and we have at all times served most foods in their natural or uncooked state. Every real advance in knowledge of foods confirms the wisdom of our "return to nature" in diet.

To compensate for the lack of vitamins in our conventional cooked and over cooked diet we are offered vitamin concentrates and synthetic vitamins. These things are of little to no value, are expensive and fail to compensate for all of the food losses caused by cooking.

How much better and simpler would be the use of raw foods! Better nourishment for less money and costing less time and effort in preparation may be had from raw foods. If you do not want to completely abandon cooked foods, if you still desire a baked potato or steamed spinach, make up your diet of at least three-fourths uncooked foods. Have a large raw vegetable salad with each protein and each starch meal. Do not skimp on the salad. Eat a tub of it. -Herbert M. Shelton, Volume II - The Science and Fine Art of Food and Nutrition, pp. 360-363

defensive much john rose? ain't nobody got time for that

life vs lifelessness

CommonSenseRaw wrote:

“Can you summarize”

JR wrote:

A Summary!!!

Jonas wrote:

“defensive much john rose?”

Jonas, I've been avoiding most of your posts because most of the time they don't even make any sense and the last thing I want to do is make anything worse for you, but I think it's time for you to pause and reflect on what others have said about you.

Once again, I don't want to make anything worse for you and I hope that you take the time to re-read these posts from a detached point of view...

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[www.vegsource.com]
From: Don Bennett (24.97.169.174)
Subject: Re: Don Bennett has no integrity
Date: August 24, 2014 at 8:03 am PST

In Reply to: Re: Don Bennett has no integrity posted by Plantman on August 24, 2014 at 4:59 am:

Plantman, thank you for your nomination of me. And please don't waste your time trying to have a rational debate with Jonas as he marches to the beat of a different drum. Don't misunderstand, he has some great info to share - timeless truths - and I feel he is sincere in wanting to help people, but there is something that prevents him from dealing with the issues of health in a rational, dispassionate, and coherent way, and all three are necessary to any debates/discussions on these issues (if the truth is what's sought).

And he's not basing his accusations on anything Harley says; he's simply not able to comprehend what Natural Hygiene dictates. His dogmatic interpretation clouds his thinking and his ability to understand the points I make. My "take" on NH can be found here... [health101.org]

Additionally it would be difficult for me to moderate any board/forum where Jonas is participating because I'd be spending inordinate amounts of my time defending myself and correcting the record due to his posts. It might be a different story otherwise.

And since Jonas has, again, made spurious allegations against me here, I'll post the private webpage where I've dealt with his communications to date, and my attempts at correcting the record, so that people can get a better idea of what I've been dealing with. [health101.org]

[www.vegsource.com]
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[www.vegsource.com]
From: Paul (49.182.30.241)
Subject: Re: Don Bennett has no integrity
Date: August 24, 2014 at 9:20 am PST

In Reply to: Re: Don Bennett has no integrity posted by Don Bennett on August 24, 2014 at 8:03 am:

Don,

It's good to hear you are interested in moderating here. I think Jeff would find it appropriate to ban certain people after a number of warnings.
It seems like Jonas has some bio-chemical imbalances.

Jonas, if you are interested in trying to get well I would contact HRIPTC.org

[www.vegsource.com]
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[www.vegsource.com]
From: Plantman (185.50.233.239)
Subject: Re: Don Bennett has no integrity
Date: August 24, 2014 at 9:51 am PST

In Reply to: Re: Don Bennett has no integrity posted by Don Bennett on August 24, 2014 at 8:03 am:

Don,

You're welcome, and thanks for your input. Actually, you needn't have said a thing. After reading Jonas's reply, I'd have understood entirely. It spoke volumes. The guy may have decent intentions, but beyond that, he's got nothing but gibberish, I'm afraid. I agree wholeheartedly with Paul that Jonas should seek help. I say that sincerely and without disrespect to him. Let's hope that Jeff could see that for himself and take the necessary measures to protect you and the board from such hysteria. Thanks again and I wish you all the best in the matter should you decide to pursue it.

[www.vegsource.com]
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[www.vegsource.com]
From: myra (99.154.245.63)
Subject: Don Bennett does have integrity
Date: August 24, 2014 at 10:20 am PST

In Reply to: Re: Don Bennett has no integrity posted by Don Bennett on August 24, 2014 at 8:03 am:

I agree that Don would be an excellent choice to facilitate this board. He has experience, is an articulate writer, is generous with his vast knowledge and has integrity.

But also Don is willing to engage with a person who happens to have a different opinion from his own…..as long as that person is expressing in a respectful way, of course (ahem, Jonas).

Jonas, I sincerely hope that this helps!!!