"As for cholesterol NOT being the cause of heart disease, I think you're quite narrow in your usage of the word "cause"."

Yes, what I meant to say was HIGH cholesterol does not cause heart disease. Your risk of heart disease is not determined by total cholesterol but rather the ratio of total cholesterol to HDL. You can have what is considered a very high total cholesterol, but if your HDL is high enough to provide a healthy ratio (around 3.5), you are not any likely to get heart disease. Then there's also lots of research which shows that low total cholesterol and low LDL is associated with HIGHER risks of heart disease, overall mortality, suicide, aggression, and depression...


Cholesterol is partially a response to cardiovascular inflammation, without inflammation, cholesterol would move freely throughout the body. But when there's cardiovascular inflammation, cholesterol tries to help repair the damage it's causing. Thick blood abrades the walls at the branch points of the arteries. Furthermore, the increased thickness results in greater levels of friction as it moves through the arteries. The pressure caused by the continued friction of thick blood begins to erodes the endothelium, causing calluses which make it even more difficult for blood to flow properly.

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] - Blood viscosity (thickness) and risk of cardiovascular events: the Edinburgh Artery Study - "These findings suggest that increased blood viscosity may be one plausible biological mechanism through which increases in haematocrit and fibrinogen may promote ischaemic heart disease and stroke. Randomized controlled trials of viscosity reduction in the prevention of cardiovascular events (e.g. by lowering high levels of haematocrit or plasma fibrinogen) are suggested"

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] - Relation between extent of coronary artery disease and blood viscosity - "These results suggest an association between increased blood viscosity and extensive coronary artery disease in men, which merits further investigation"

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] - "Patients with coronary heart disease had significantly higher blood viscosity values than healthy groups of the same sex. It is suggested that higher viscosity of whole blood and of plasma is a contributory factor in development of clinical manifestations of coronary heart disease and possibly the basic vascular lesion itself"

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] - Carotid artery intima-media thickness could predict the presence of coronary artery lesions - "Carotid IMT could predict the presence of coronary artery lesions independently of clinic or ambulatory BP values, BMI, serum cholesterol, and glucose levels (P < .01). Carotid IMT predicted the presence of significant coronary artery lesions with cutoff values 0.85 and 0.80 for MICA and MCCA, respectively."



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2014 03:53PM by jtprindl.

Thank you very much. That answers to my question. You pulled that up quickly!

I would love to see a study of blood viscosity of rawfooders compared to the general population.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] -
> Relation of triglyceride levels, fasting and
> nonfasting, to fatal and nonfatal coronary heart
> disease
>
> "Greater ease of obtaining nonfasting than fasting
> measurements, greater prevalence of
> hypertriglyceridemia with nonfasting than fasting
> values, and similarly increased risk with each
> indicate that nonfasting TG levels may be more
> useful than fasting ones for risk
> stratification."
>
> Wouldn't non-fasting be more important considering
> that is what her triglycerides will be the
> majority, if not all the time? I wouldn't say
> she's at risk for a heart attack now but heavy
> exercise plus lots of fructose can strain the
> heart as she gets older, no? And even if she
> stopped exercising as much when she got older, the
> fructose would have an even greater effect on her
> heart (plus liver). Seems like a double-edged
> sword in the long-run and this doesn't even take
> into account the low levels of EPA/DHA, zinc,
> selenium, and iron. Women have higher conversion
> rates of long-chain omega-3's, though, so she'll
> likely be in far better shape in this regard than
> if she was a man. Also, since she's still having
> her period, I think that lowers triglycerides so
> as she gets older that benefit will disappear as
> well.


EXCELLENT find and EXCELLENT point!!! It is certainly not ideal in my mind. Interestly enough, I know of a person on very high fat (well over 50% fat) who reports good lipid blood results.

See...we know it is never smart to be getting low levelsof nutrients, yet vegans are often happy to go low fat and sodium at questionable levels. The other issue is that we think getting 100% rda for nutrients keeps us safe. It'stime we quit the raw food 101 baloney.

I might talk about some of the N.H cases elsewhere to use as examples of questionable blood work, but l will keep the person's name out of it.

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2014 08:58PM by The Sproutarian Man.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also, after women stop having their periods, HDL
> tends to decrease, which could further complicate
> things for Kristina as she gets older.
>
> [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
>
> "CONCLUSION:
>
> HDL-C is an independent risk factor for coronary
> heart disease. This study favours the view that
> decrease in estradiol level and associated
> decrease in HDL-C seen in postmenopausal women may
> be responsible for the increased risk of coronary
> heart disease after menopause."

Wow, another interesting find there. Christina already has very low HDL, so if periods stop this could get worse. Then again, maybe the periods have stopped.

My intuition is usually very good and there is this whole `not good' feeling about these results. The good news is that Christina can always change her diet if her health starts feeling negative effects of all this.

I can confidently predict that Kristina will not be following her current diet (low-fat, high-fruit) in 15-20 years, if not earlier, and not by choice. She feels secure about her diet because her doctor told her she was in excellent health but unfortunately her doctor doesn't read the scientific research. If he did, he may have took her aside and had a talk with her and this video may have never existed.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can confidently predict that Kristina will not
> be following her current diet (low-fat,
> high-fruit) in 15-20 years, if not earlier, and
> not by choice. She feels secure about her diet
> because her doctor told her she was in excellent
> health but unfortunately her doctor doesn't read
> the scientific research. If he did, he may have
> took her aside and had a talk with her and this
> video may have never existed.

I wish she would get a second or third opinion on those blood results. Brian Clement and Gabriel Cousens are no dills when it comes to diet, and it is no accident that they warn against these type of diets....both have monitored clients over the years and know a thing or two. It's like what they say, some can do well on the high carb low fat diet, but they are the exception to the rule.

Gabriel says that most people are fast oxidisers, which means that most people are not suited to high carb low fat diets, and if they do eat such a diet they need to keep eating in order to feel good and keep their energy up so blood sugar levels keep reasonably level (calories is also an issue, but blood sugar stabilisation issues can be relevant if the high carb diet is not particularly well suited). The people who are slow oxidisers are perfectly suited to high carb low fat. It would be interesting how Christina's blood sugar levels are and whether she needs to keep eating fruit to keep them stable.


Below is an interesting video. The fruit crowd will say it is dumb, but l like the part near the end how Gabriel brings up the culture that lives on a 50% saturated fat diet who have no cancer or heart disease etc (I think l have that study).

Fruitarianism, Fructose, and Sugar
[www.youtube.com]

www.thesproutarian.com

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can confidently predict that Kristina will not
> be following her current diet (low-fat,
> high-fruit) in 15-20 years, if not earlier, and
> not by choice.



I give you less than 5.

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jtprindl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I can confidently predict that Kristina will
> not
> > be following her current diet (low-fat,
> > high-fruit) in 15-20 years, if not earlier, and
> > not by choice. She feels secure about her diet
> > because her doctor told her she was in
> excellent
> > health but unfortunately her doctor doesn't
> read
> > the scientific research. If he did, he may have
> > took her aside and had a talk with her and this
> > video may have never existed.
>
> I wish she would get a second or third opinion on
> those blood results. Brian Clement and Gabriel
> Cousens are no dills when it comes to diet, and it
> is no accident that they warn against these type
> of diets....both have monitored clients over the
> years and know a thing or two. It's like what they
> say, some can do well on the high carb low fat
> diet, but they are the exception to the rule.
>
> Gabriel says that most people are fast oxidisers,
> which means that most people are not suited to
> high carb low fat diets, and if they do eat such a
> diet they need to keep eating in order to feel
> good and keep their energy up so blood sugar
> levels keep reasonably level (calories is also an
> issue, but blood sugar stabilisation issues can be
> relevant if the high carb diet is not particularly
> well suited). The people who are slow oxidisers
> are perfectly suited to high carb low fat. It
> would be interesting how Christina's blood sugar
> levels are and whether she needs to keep eating
> fruit to keep them stable.
>
>
> Below is an interesting video. The fruit crowd
> will say it is dumb, but l like the part near the
> end how Gabriel brings up the culture that lives
> on a 50% saturated fat diet who have no cancer or
> heart disease etc (I think l have that study).
>
> Fruitarianism, Fructose, and Sugar
> [www.youtube.com]


Cholesterol, coconuts, and diet on Polynesian atolls: a natural experiment: the Pukapuka and Tokelau island studies - "Two populations of Polynesians living on atolls near the equator provide an opportunity to investigate the relative effects of saturated fat and dietary cholesterol in determining serum cholesterol levels. The habitual diets of the toll dwellers from both Pukapuka and Tokelau are high in saturated fat but low in dietary cholesterol and sucrose. Coconut is the chief source of energy for both groups. Tokelauans obtain a much higher percentage of energy from coconut than the Pukapukans, 63% compared with 34%, so their intake of saturated fat is higher. The serum cholesterol levels are 35 to 40 mg higher in Tokelauans than in Pukapukans. These major differences in serum cholesterol levels are considered to be due to the higher saturated fat intake of the Tokelauans. Analysis of a variety of food samples, and human fat biopsies show a high lauric (12:0) and myristic (14:0) content. Vascular disease is uncommon in both populations and there is no evidence of the high saturated fat intake having a harmful effect in these populations". - [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

"Gabriel says that most people are fast oxidisers, which means that most people are not suited to high carb low fat diets, and if they do eat such a diet they need to keep eating in order to feel good and keep their energy up so blood sugar levels keep reasonably level (calories is also an issue, but blood sugar stabilisation issues can be relevant if the high carb diet is not particularly well suited). The people who are slow oxidisers are perfectly suited to high carb low fat. It would be interesting how Christina's blood sugar levels are and whether she needs to keep eating fruit to keep them stable."

Also, logically when you look at human biology, it makes no sense thinking that carbs are the body's primary fuel (especially large amounts of fruit)...

[www.marksdailyapple.com]



"Naturally, in the presence of all that glucose, and provided you actually do some exercise, your genes will eventually get the signals to up-regulate the enzyme systems, pathways and receptors involved in sugar-burning and fat storage and they’ll down-regulate all those involved in accessing and burning fat for energy. Of course, that doesn’t make it right, but it sure makes it appear as if glucose is king. What makes it worse, if you don’t exercise, you head down the path to insulin resistance and/or obesity."

"Glucose is not the preferred fuel of muscle cells under normal human resting metabolic conditions or even under most normal human movement patterns (exercise). Fat is. Sure, given an unlimited supply of glucose and regular refilling of glycogen stores, skeletal muscle will burn through it during exercise the same way a fire burns through kindling when that’s all you have to offer. The body can shift carbohydrate oxidation to keep up with intake. But skeletal muscle can burn fat with great efficiency (and far less oxidative fallout) at relatively high outputs for very long bouts. Cardiac muscle actually prefers ketones, and the brain can run just fine (maybe even optimally) on a blend of ketones and minimal glucose. Our survival as a species has depended on these evolutionary adaptations away from glucose dependency. Entire civilizations have existed for ages on what is practically a zero-carb diet. Think about this: there is actually no requirement for any “essential dietary carbohydrates” in human nutrition. It’s possible to live a very long and healthy life never consuming much – if any – in the way of carbs, provided you get adequate dietary protein and fat. The same can’t be said for going too long without protein or fat. Cut too far back on either of those macronutrients and you will eventually get sick and die."

Gabriel Cousens said ...

And what does Brian Clements say about high fat diet?

CommonSenseRaw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gabriel Cousens said ...
>
> And what does Brian Clements say about high fat
> diet?


I don't go strictly off of the comments of other people, I look at the entire picture. I take both Brian Clement's and Gabriel Cousens' comments with lots of consideration, but I also look at anecdotal and scientific evidence. I spoke with Brian last night about saturated fat and unfortunately, he also seems to be unaware of the massive amounts of science proving that saturated fat does NOT cause heart disease (again, CVD is caused by inflammation). He basically said all those studies didn't mean anything because he works with people across the world and finds different results. I told him that you can't compare COOKED fats (which turn into toxic substances like trans fatty acids) with raw coconut and he didn't really have an answer outside of mentioning his experiences. I also asked him what his comments were on the study posted above (high coconut saturated fat and no CVD) and he said it could be a matter of metabolism, genetics, and living under the sun. There are so many studies combined with things like the French Paradox and the experiences of many that clearly show that saturated fat doesn't cause CVD. At worst, it shows that even if it did, it can be completely negated with a healthy diet rich in anti-inflammatory, high phytochemical foods. But again, the research seems to indicate that saturated does not cause CVD.

Thanks for the info. Very helpful.

It seems to me that raw high fat does not hurt but I cannot comprehend why it is needed.

It may not be necessary because every food has some fat like every food has some protein source.

Humans are not animals for sure but some degree of comparison is possible. Herbivores like zebras, cows are eating greens and are fine.

"It seems to me that raw high fat does not hurt but I cannot comprehend why it is needed."

Well we have to establish what we think "high-fat" is... I would say "high-fat" is around 35-50%, but people could do very well with even more than that. Low-fat diets (anything near 811 or lower), especially when combined with high-fruit have a long list of problems that have been pointed out numerous times on this board. Various major nutritional deficiencies, lower cognition, lots of fructose which strains the heart and liver, low total cholesterol and HDL, too much copper and manganese, etc.

Maybe the problem is high fruit by itself not necessarily low fat.

What are the findings on those on high greens diet with low fat?

If fruitarians were eating high fat fruits there may not be a problem, I guess there are not that many high fat fruits if any.

"What are the findings on those on high greens diet with low fat?"

It would depend on which greens as far as minerals goes but when it comes to EPA/DHA, still major problems. For example, planting a cup of sunflower seeds and sprouting them until they're microgreens, and then juicing will provide you similar nutrition to the actual seeds (maybe more if soaked in mineralized water) with very little fat. One cup of sunflower seeds is loaded with zinc and selenium. But if you're juicing, say, lots of kale or romaine lettuce or spinach... not nearly as high in any of those.

"If fruitarians were eating high fat fruits there may not be a problem, I guess there are not that many high fat fruits if any."

Not as much of a problem from a fructose perspective but those fats are generally very high in omega-6 and not high in omega-3's. Your ratios would be way out of kilter which would further deplete ALA to EPA/DHA conversion. Plus, you wouldn't be getting enough omega-3's anyways from high-fat fruits such as avocados and durian.

Another comment I want to make in regards to coconut and saturated fat is that Lou Corona (as well as myself) consumes YOUNG coconut which is much lower in fat than mature coconuts and high in water content, even lowering potential concerns with saturated fat on top of all the evidence that suggests it doesn't cause CVD to begin with. And then when you also add in the protective benefits of a highly anti-inflammatory and high phytochemical diet... it's not an issue.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CommonSenseRaw Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Gabriel Cousens said ...
> >
> > And what does Brian Clements say about high fat
> > diet?
>
>
> I don't go strictly off of the comments of other
> people, I look at the entire picture. I take both
> Brian Clement's and Gabriel Cousens' comments with
> lots of consideration, but I also look at
> anecdotal and scientific evidence. I spoke with
> Brian last night about saturated fat and
> unfortunately, he also seems to be unaware of the
> massive amounts of science proving that saturated
> fat does NOT cause heart disease (again, CVD is
> caused by inflammation). He basically said all
> those studies didn't mean anything because he
> works with people across the world and finds
> different results. I told him that you can't
> compare COOKED fats (which turn into toxic
> substances like trans fatty acids) with raw
> coconut and he didn't really have an answer
> outside of mentioning his experiences. I also
> asked him what his comments were on the study
> posted above (high coconut saturated fat and no
> CVD) and he said it could be a matter of
> metabolism, genetics, and living under the sun.
> There are so many studies combined with things
> like the French Paradox and the experiences of
> many that clearly show that saturated fat doesn't
> cause CVD. At worst, it shows that even if it did,
> it can be completely negated with a healthy diet
> rich in anti-inflammatory, high phytochemical
> foods. But again, the research seems to indicate
> that saturated does not cause CVD.


Unfortunately Dr Clement is under the Dr Esselstyn and Dr Colin Campbell spell. No respected medical journal would ever touch his dubious China Study and l am surprised he would even put his respected name to such amateurish work. Dr Clement is doing himself no favours by talking it uplike he does, but he is under the spell.

jtprindl: i'll get back you about stuff later.

And not just the French Paradox,there is also the Russian paradox,the luxemburg paradox and many other paradoxes. There are also the N.Z natives who live on high coconut saturated fat diets with high cholesterol and have virtually no heart disease in a study of slightlyover 600 people. Btw, the N.Z natives live near the south pole.

Then there was the study of over 52,000 Norwegians. The ones with low cholesterol were dying younger and the one's with high cholesterol were living longer.

If you want to risk living a shorter life with disease and possible mental problems...go low fat high carb vegan,that would be a great way to do it.

Dr Clement is awesome, but he still has silly ideas in his head. Gabriel is a star. Combined...Dr Clement and Gabriel are a force to be reckoned with.

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2014 10:50PM by The Sproutarian Man.

The star of high fat diets, Lou Corona. He has upto two cups of nuts/seeds a day and much of it is saturated fat. He is 63 and looks better than any raw fooder l have ever seen. He is the perfect example of a raw vegan because he is fit, MENTALLY STABLE,has the spiritual aspect etc. He has the lot!!!

Heeeer's Lou! 63 going on 20.
[www.youtube.com]

Lou at 49 (WOW):
[www.youtube.com]

www.thesproutarian.com

Then we have this chap challenging Gabriel with his dubious promotion of high carb low fat diets knowing full well that most people don't do well on them. Then he goes as far to imply that we may be similar to apes, or imo even have come from apes. Absolutely disgusting and amateur hour at it's best. And now l read his reputation is farrr from steller with talk about unprofessional fasting practises and a death. And you wonder why I say the things l do, because some of these gurus make me sick.

Response to Dr. Gabriel Cousen's Anti-Fruit Video
[www.youtube.com]

www.thesproutarian.com

"The star of high fat diets, Lou Corona. He has upto two cups of nuts/seeds a day and much of it is saturated fat. He is 63 and looks better than any raw fooder l have ever seen. He is the perfect example of a raw vegan because he is fit, MENTALLY STABLE,has the spiritual aspect etc. He has the lot!!!"

He looks fantastic for his age and not only that, if you compare his energy and compassion and happiness to Douglas Graham, it's obvious who's diet is working better for them. Doug is not only aging at a way faster rate but he always talks in the same monotone voice with no expression on his face. 811 may be a nice, temporary beginner detox diet but certainly not something to follow long-term. I would love to meet Lou and think it's awesome that he didn't even know what YouTube was until recently... likely because he's so attached to nature and natural living.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2014 11:21PM by jtprindl.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "The star of high fat diets, Lou Corona. He has
> upto two cups of nuts/seeds a day and much of it
> is saturated fat. He is 63 and looks better than
> any raw fooder l have ever seen. He is the perfect
> example of a raw vegan because he is fit, MENTALLY
> STABLE,has the spiritual aspect etc. He has the
> lot!!!"
>
> He looks fantastic for his age and not only that,
> if you compare his energy and compassion and
> happiness to Douglas Graham, it's obvious who's
> diet is working better for them. Doug is not only
> aging at a way faster rate but he always talks in
> the same monotone voice with no expression on his
> face. 811 may be a nice, temporary beginner detox
> diet but certainly not something to follow
> long-term. I would love to meet Lou and think it's
> awesome that he didn't even know what YouTube was
> until recently... likely because he's so attached
> to nature and natural living.


Doug is like the walking dead...expressionless and lifeless like a robot. You don't know the half of it with Doug, he has been caught up in the scandal of the decade in the raw food world and it looks like he is going down big time. Even his N.H friends are dumping him in droves.

I don't want to talk about Doug publically, but l will send you a few links about what he has been up to.

A nice fancy theory, but utterly rediculous. Forget about high nutrient food, just eat fruit because it is easier to get the nutrients to meet the body's need when you are detoxed.

[www.youtube.com]


Can't eat nuts or seeds because it puts too much strain on the body. Hmmm....how many people can manage that in this day and age?

Another video full of fancy ideas by the fruit man above:


Sprouted and Fermented Foods
[www.youtube.com]


See jtprindl..the people of the fruit world move in different ways to us. I am sure Dr Clement, Lou and Gabriel would be appalled at the Alice in Wonderland stuff being spouted here.

I am only giving him a gentle friendly knock.

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another video full of fancy ideas by the fruit man
> above:
>
>
> Sprouted and Fermented Foods
> [www.youtube.com]
>
>
> See jtprindl..the people of the fruit world move
> in different ways to us. I am sure Dr Clement, Lou
> and Gabriel would be appalled at the Alice in
> Wonderland stuff being spouted here.
>
> I am only giving him a gentle friendly knock.


Eh.. imo it's not even worth responding to some of the ridiculous comments made by the low-fat or high-fruit community anymore lol unless the health of others is at stake. They believe what they believe without question or what the literature says, and that's fine.

OMG!!!

What did we ever do before we had SCIENCE to tell us what to eat?!?!?!

"Life is really simple, but men insist on making it complicated." -Confucius





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2014 11:57AM by John Rose.

John Rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OMG!!!
>
> What did we ever do before we had SCIENCE to tell
> us what to eat?!?!?!
>
> "Life is really simple, but men insist on making
> it complicated." -Confucius


Certainly not unlimited amounts of hybridized fruit.

You mistakenly view science as some type of enemy even though it's one of the most beneficial tools of the modern-day to help us learn more and more as a species. Is science everything? Of course not. Is it a great tool for learning? Absolutely. And no, I'm not talking about fraudulent pharmaceutical science who fix studies to sell drugs. You're using science right now to be able to type on this forum and I don't see you complaining about that. But I can see why you dislike it so much, it contradicts the high-fruit, low-fat dogma you've been following oh so long.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2014 02:45PM by jtprindl.

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
---------------------------------------------


> Doug is like the walking dead...expressionless and
> lifeless like a robot. You don't know the half of
> it with Doug, he has been caught up in the scandal
> of the decade in the raw food world and it looks
> like he is going down big time. Even his N.H
> friends are dumping him in droves.


> I don't want to talk about Doug publically...


Ha ha! Classic cognitive dissonance. Of course this is in addition to all the things you've already said about Doug on this site and vegsource. But yet you don't want to talk about Doug publically. lol. Methinks you have a mental problem.

Or maybe you been eating fruit. Ha

Lou eats two cups of nuts every single day? Wow. I always have a bag of nuts around. I eat if I am hungry. A big big bag of Italian raw almonds.

We are the raw food scientists John. We go where no man has gone before and if they have well we each go our own ways to see, what is this thing called raw foods. Some say I wanna go high nuts, others go, hmm, I want to see if this fruit only thing works, and others may be healing their diseases with power of greens. We all little balls of light inside our brains, seeking knowledge.
It would be boring if we all were the same. It would be boring if we all agreed because no learning is going on. Like the Star Ship Enterprise, we must go further..where no man has gone. JUst because you wrote a book, or have a business doesnt make you an expert. It just makes you an expert in your little corner. Its a big world to investigate and there are so many absolutes.

The world is constantly moving. If we can imagine it, its possible or even a reality on a parallel universe. Everything you imagine is existing somewhere, before schrodinger's cat box opens.

I really believe in raw foods, raw life. But why is it so scarce in nature and only there in the tropics, are we meant to all be farmers. I think the raw food diet is ultra complex, complicated, not simple. Its evolved beings who thrive on it. For sure, Almost alien. Advanced. Its so pure and so great. We are all headed there eventually, its a sign of success and civilization, not to cook food. Is that weird, I think so.

I seen some really weird youtube videos lately. Has anyone else? These videos are about ebola and if you are not on the raw food diet, you are going to die.

Has anyone seen these?

I have a real hard time talking bad about doug. I know who he is. You know when you know someone? I just have this feeling about him. He is a good person who really cares. He is not about money. I could be wrong. I could be really disillusioned and tricked and deceived. maybe he is bad I don't know. I just have a lot of respect for him. I am not an 811 person either. I guess I am waiting for him to bounce back, but he was never there in the first place. Its sad to me this drama is happening. Things seem falling apart. I feel lots going on, within and without. Turmoil. He has never changed. Always been into raw foods. 811 may be wrong. It may be totally an invention.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2014 04:10PM by coconutcream.

TSM wrote:

<<<I don't want to talk about Doug publically...>>>

Anon 102 wrote:

<<<Ha ha! Classic cognitive dissonance. Of course this is in addition to all the things you've already said about Doug on this site and vegsource. But yet you don't want to talk about Doug publically. lol. Methinks you have a mental problem.>>>

<<<Or maybe you been eating fruit. Ha>>>

Hey Anon,

Thanks for the chuckle. Indeed, TSM is a complicated individual.

Sometimes I cannot help but wonder if TSM is actually part of Controlled Opposition. One always has to be on guard because they do exist and they are very hard to identify because they try to blend in as one of us and what a perfect cover to promote the most Extreme Version of what we do where we have to spend a HUGE amount of time preparing Foods that are NOT even that appealing. Obviously, this Extreme Dietary Approach has NO threat of catching on, which fits their overall Agenda and is another reason why I cannot help but wonder about TSM.

The way I see it, the Raw Food Diet is already Extreme enough without cutting out the Fruit and the Fat and if ever want to reach the Tipping Point, we got to offer people something that is easy, doable and sees results FAST and that’s where the Juice Fast/Feast comes into play. Once we reach the Tipping Point, it won’t take very long to tweak our Ideal Diet so that everyone can be the best that they can be!!!

jtprindl wrote:

<<<But I can see why you dislike it so much, it contradicts the high-fruit, low-fat dogma you've been following oh so long.>>>

First of all, I do NOT subscribe to Low Fat.

Secondly, I also subscribe to High Veggies.

As far as High Fruit, if one is active and even if one is not active, Fruit is the best place to get those much NEEDED CARBOHYDRATE Calories!!!

THERE IS NO SCIENCE THAT SAYS FRUIT IS BAD!!!

Does Fruit raise Triglycerides?

Does Low Fat raise Triglycerides?

Yes, but so what!

Science has got you Barking up the Wrong Tree and you have been Tricked my friend if you think Heart Disease is linked to Fruit consumption.

If you truly understood what Triglycerides were all about, you would understand why Fruit and Low Fat Diets raise Triglycerides.

If you truly understood what Triglycerides were all about, you would understand that High Triglycerides are an Effect and that there are many ways to raise Triglyceride Levels.

If you truly understood what Triglycerides were all about, you would understand that it's NOT the High Triglycerides - it's the way they are being ELEVATED.

Once again, you've been Tricked, just like all of our so-called Experts, to focus on the Effect and NOT the Cause. You’re looking for a Sunset, but you are heading East.

Most of the “Science” being done is WRONG!!!

For example, in the first 30 years on the War against Cancer, we spent over $200 Billion and had over 1.5 Million Research Papers and yet, we went from 1 out of 3 people dying of Cancer to 1 out of 2 people dying of Cancer. That’s a 150% increase!!!

Why have we spent so much time and money to only see a 150% increase in Cancer Deaths?

They were heading East looking for a Sunset. In Latin, it’s called Modus Ponens. In layman terms, it’s putting the Cart before the Horse.

However, there is plenty of Good Science that does study the Cause, especially Food, but the problem with most of these studies is that the most important Piece of the Research Equipment is SICK, ADDICTED and in DENIAL!!!

Once again, "Life is really simple, but men insist on making it complicated." -Confucius

All we have to do to figure out the Root Cause to Cancer and Heart Disease is look at the Graph on page 51 in “Eat to Live” by Dr. Joel Fuhrman. On one end of the Graph he has countries who consume 90% Unrefined Plant Food and they have a combined rate of Cancer and Heart Disease of only 5%!!! On the other end of the Graph he has countries who consume 10% Unrefined Plant Food meaning that 90% of their Food Intake is coming from Processed Foods and Animal Products and they have a combined rate of Cancer and Heart Disease of 90%!!! And then, the rest of the Graph is perfectly SYMMETRICAL!!! The more Processed Foods and Animal Products one consumes the more Cancer and Heart Disease one gets!!!

It’s called Cause & Effect and whenever we focus on Risk Factors, like High Triglycerides or even High Cholesterol, we are being Tricked and Fooled.

Once again, it’s NOT that Complicated!!!

Fruits are NOT Processed Foods nor are they Animal Products.

Don’t Fear the FRUIT - Fear the FIRE!!!

FRUITS are your friends and they are a Love Note from God.

“God sends meat and the Devil sends cooks.” -Thomas Deloney (1543-1600)

“God sends meat, and the Devil sends cooks.” -John Taylor, Works, vol. ii. p. 85 (1630)