"Feeling good (TSM meter) is not a good indicator of its health effects."

Lol what do you know about health & nutrition? Wait, don't answer that, you answer it everyday with your embarrassing posts. Anyways, are you implying that people should feel unwell after they eat?

"the effects of saturated fat are visible only over long periods."

Wrong.

Meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies evaluating the association of saturated fat with cardiovascular disease - "During 5–23 y of follow-up of 347,747 subjects, 11,006 developed CHD or stroke. Intake of saturated fat was not associated with an increased risk of CHD, stroke, or CVD. The pooled relative risk estimates that compared extreme quantiles of saturated fat intake were 1.07 (95% CI: 0.96, 1.19; P = 0.22) for CHD, 0.81 (95% CI: 0.62, 1.05; P = 0.11) for stroke, and 1.00 (95% CI: 0.89, 1.11; P = 0.95) for CVD. Consideration of age, sex, and study quality did not change the results... A meta-analysis of prospective epidemiologic studies showed that there is no significant evidence for concluding that dietary saturated fat is associated with an increased risk of CHD or CVD. More data are needed to elucidate whether CVD risks are likely to be influenced by the specific nutrients used to replace saturated fat". - [ajcn.nutrition.org]

Association of Dietary, Circulating, and Supplement Fatty Acids With Coronary Risk: A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis - "There were 32 observational studies (512 420 participants) of fatty acids from dietary intake; 17 observational studies (25 721 participants) of fatty acid biomarkers; and 27 randomized, controlled trials (105 085 participants) of fatty acid supplementation. In observational studies, relative risks for coronary disease were 1.03 (95% CI, 0.98 to 1.07) for saturated, 1.00 (CI, 0.91 to 1.10) for monounsaturated, 0.87 (CI, 0.78 to 0.97) for long-chain ?-3 polyunsaturated, 0.98 (CI, 0.90 to 1.06) for ?-6 polyunsaturated, and 1.16 (CI, 1.06 to 1.27) for trans fatty acids when the top and bottom thirds of baseline dietary fatty acid intake were compared. Corresponding estimates for circulating fatty acids were 1.06 (CI, 0.86 to 1.30), 1.06 (CI, 0.97 to 1.17), 0.84 (CI, 0.63 to 1.11), 0.94 (CI, 0.84 to 1.06), and 1.05 (CI, 0.76 to 1.44), respectively. There was heterogeneity of the associations among individual circulating fatty acids and coronary disease. In randomized, controlled trials, relative risks for coronary disease were 0.97 (CI, 0.69 to 1.36) for a-linolenic, 0.94 (CI, 0.86 to 1.03)for long-chain ?-3 polyunsaturated, and 0.86 (CI, 0.69 to 1.07) for ?-6 polyunsaturated fatty acid supplementations... Current evidence does not clearly support cardiovascular guidelines that encourage high consumption of polyunsaturated fatty acids and low consumption of total saturated fats". - [annals.org]

Dietary intake of saturated fat by food source and incident cardiovascular disease: the Multi-Ethnic Study of Atherosclerosis - "Although dietary recommendations have focused on restricting saturated fat (SF) consumption to reduce cardiovascular disease (CVD) risk, evidence from prospective studies has not supported a strong link between total SF intake and CVD events... A higher intake of dairy SF was associated with LOWER CVD risk. In contrast, a higher intake of meat SF was associated with GREATER CVD risk. The substitution of 2% of energy from meat SF with energy from dairy SF was associated with a 25% lower CVD risk. No associations were observed plant or butter SF and CVD risk". - [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

Cholesterol, coconuts, and diet on Polynesian atolls: a natural experiment: the Pukapuka and Tokelau island studies - "Two populations of Polynesians living on atolls near the equator provide an opportunity to investigate the relative effects of saturated fat and dietary cholesterol in determining serum cholesterol levels. The habitual diets of the toll dwellers from both Pukapuka and Tokelau are high in saturated fat but low in dietary cholesterol and sucrose. Coconut is the chief source of energy for both groups. Tokelauans obtain a much higher percentage of energy from coconut than the Pukapukans, 63% compared with 34%, so their intake of saturated fat is higher. The serum cholesterol levels are 35 to 40 mg higher in Tokelauans than in Pukapukans. These major differences in serum cholesterol levels are considered to be due to the higher saturated fat intake of the Tokelauans. Analysis of a variety of food samples, and human fat biopsies show a high lauric (12:0) and myristic (14:0) content. Vascular disease is uncommon in both populations and there is no evidence of the high saturated fat intake having a harmful effect in these populations". - [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

Coconut fats - "Coconut fats account for 80% of the fat intake among Sri Lankans. Around 92% of these fats are saturated fats. This has lead to the belief that coconut fats are 'bad for health', particularly in relation to ischaemic heart disease. Yet most of the saturated fats in coconut are medium chain fatty acids whose properties and metabolism are different to those of animal origin. Medium chain fatty acids do not undergo degradation and re-esterification processes and are directly used in the body to produce energy. They are not as 'bad for health' as saturated fats. There is the need to clarify issues relating to intake of coconut fats and health, more particularly for populations that still depend on coconut fats for much of their fat intake. This paper describes the metabolism of coconut fats and its potential benefits, and attempts to highlight its benefits to remove certain misconceptions regarding its use". - [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

Dietary intake and the risk of coronary heart disease among the coconut-consuming Minangkabau in West Sumatra, Indonesia - "Similar intakes of saturated and unsaturated fatty acids between the cases and controls indicated that the consumption of total fat or saturated fat, including that from coconut, was not a predictor for CHD in this food culture. However, the intakes of animal foods, total protein, dietary cholesterol and less plant derived carbohydrates were predictors of CHD". - [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2014 09:16PM by jtprindl.

those are micky mouse studies from students. Here is the editor in chief of the American Journal of Cardiology. [en.wikipedia.org]

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

Quote

SOME FACTS AND PRINCIPLES LEARNED AFTER SPENDING 50 YEARS INVESTIGATING CORONARY HEART DISEASE

The atherosclerotic risk factors showing that the only factor required to cause atherosclerosis is cholesterol.

1) Atherosclerosis is easily produced experimentally in herbivores (monkeys, rabbits) by giving them diets containing large quantities of cholesterol (egg yolks) or saturated fat (animal fat).

2) Atherosclerotic plaques contain cholesterol.

3) Societies with high average cholesterol levels have higher event rates (heart attacks, etc.) than societies with much lower average cholesterol levels.

4) When serum cholesterol levels (especially the low-density lipoprotein cholesterol [LDL-C] level) are lowered (most readily, of course, by statin drugs), atherosclerotic events fall accordingly and the lower the level, the fewer the events (“less is more”).

Although most humans consider themselves carnivores or at least omnivores, basically we humans have characteristics of herbivores.

Here is litterature from a internationally known surgeon that blasts the studies above: [www.amazon.com]

"those are micky mouse studies from students."

Lol these are studies done on significant numbers of humans and they all come to the conclusion that saturated fat doesn't cause heart disease. Unfortunately, Esselstyn and Roberts are unfamiliar with the latest research. Inflammation causes heart disease. On top of all the studies I just posted, why does virgin coconut oil (loaded in saturated fat) have heart-healthy effects?

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] - "VCO obtained by wet process has a beneficial effect in lowering lipid components compared to CO. It reduced total cholesterol, triglycerides, phospholipids, LDL, and VLDL cholesterol levels and increased HDL cholesterol in serum and tissues. The PF of virgin coconut oil was also found to be capable of preventing in vitro LDL oxidation with reduced carbonyl formation"

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] - "This study showed that VCO supplementation is capable of preventing elevation in blood pressure and also decreasing deactivation of nitric oxide in male rats fed with repeatedly heated palm oil. In addition, VCO does not influence relaxation but DECREASES vasoconstriction of the endothelium".

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the effects of saturated fat are visible only over
> long periods. Feeling good (TSM meter) is not a
> good indicator of its health effects. For example,
> people feel good after eating brownies, candy, or
> junk.


No no...we are talking about being highly conscious and sensitive to reading one's body. This cannot be compared to the SAD person because the `feeling good' l am talking about is a highly tuned reading of one's self. I am talking about multiple levels of feeling good and distinguishing between the differences. Eg...feeling good on juices and fruit is completely different to feeling good on ferments and seeds etc. All the foods and processing of foods have completely different effects, so people need to intimiately learn the various food effects to be able to master their diet.

Many people see things as `energy is good', but that is not neccessarily the case. It is important to be able to tell the difference between various types of energies from food. AND...we also need to be able to tell the difference between feeling good and catering towards addiction. Is the fruit making people feel good for the right reasons or are they feeling good because it is catrering towards sugar addiction??? See...lots of complex things we need to be able to work out, and that's why we need clear and puified minds and why we need to experiment over many years to nail our diets to full effect. We need to know all this along with what macro nutrient and micro nutrient levels work best or us. As l have said, tailoring diet is an artform that most people will never master or even come close to mastering because they live in the raw food 101 world and use dumbed down ideas put into their heads by books, websites and raw food leaders. I always say to people to throw most of the teachings out because it largely brings raw food failure because raw food leaders talk mainly a bunch of raw food 101 junk and are not worth listening too. I say to people to get most of their books written by raw food leaders and burn them!!! If people are saying to eat a certain macronutrient ratio...their books should be the first to be burned.

www.thesproutarian.com

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] - "VCO
> obtained by wet process has a beneficial effect in
> lowering lipid components compared to CO. It
> reduced total cholesterol, triglycerides,
> phospholipids, LDL, and VLDL cholesterol levels
> and increased HDL cholesterol in serum and
> tissues. The PF of virgin coconut oil was also
> found to be capable of preventing in vitro LDL
> oxidation with reduced carbonyl formation"


>
> [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
> 4/ - "This study showed that VCO supplementation
> is capable of preventing elevation in blood
> pressure and also decreasing deactivation of
> nitric oxide in male rats fed with repeatedly
> heated palm oil. In addition, VCO does not
> influence relaxation but DECREASES
> vasoconstriction of the endothelium".



Interesting stuff l highlighted in bold.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Feeling good (TSM meter) is not a good indicator
> of its health effects."
>
> Lol what do you know about health & nutrition?
> Wait, don't answer that, you answer it everyday
> with your embarrassing posts. Anyways, are you
> implying that people should feel unwell after they
> eat?
>
> "the effects of saturated fat are visible only
> over long periods."
>
> Wrong.
>
> Meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies
> evaluating the association of saturated fat with
> cardiovascular disease - "During 5–23 y of
> follow-up of 347,747 subjects, 11,006 developed
> CHD or stroke. Intake of saturated fat was not
> associated with an increased risk of CHD, stroke,
> or CVD. The pooled relative risk estimates that
> compared extreme quantiles of saturated fat intake
> were 1.07 (95% CI: 0.96, 1.19; P = 0.22) for CHD,
> 0.81 (95% CI: 0.62, 1.05; P = 0.11) for stroke,
> and 1.00 (95% CI: 0.89, 1.11; P = 0.95) for CVD.
> Consideration of age, sex, and study quality did
> not change the results... A meta-analysis of
> prospective epidemiologic studies showed that
> there is no significant evidence for concluding
> that dietary saturated fat is associated with an
> increased risk of CHD or CVD. More data are needed
> to elucidate whether CVD risks are likely to be
> influenced by the specific nutrients used to
> replace saturated fat". -
> [ajcn.nutrition.org]
>
> Association of Dietary, Circulating, and
> Supplement Fatty Acids With Coronary Risk: A
> Systematic Review and Meta-analysis - "There were
> 32 observational studies (512 420 participants) of
> fatty acids from dietary intake; 17 observational
> studies (25 721 participants) of fatty acid
> biomarkers; and 27 randomized, controlled trials
> (105 085 participants) of fatty acid
> supplementation. In observational studies,
> relative risks for coronary disease were 1.03 (95%
> CI, 0.98 to 1.07) for saturated, 1.00 (CI, 0.91 to
> 1.10) for monounsaturated, 0.87 (CI, 0.78 to 0.97)
> for long-chain ?-3 polyunsaturated, 0.98 (CI, 0.90
> to 1.06) for ?-6 polyunsaturated, and 1.16 (CI,
> 1.06 to 1.27) for trans fatty acids when the top
> and bottom thirds of baseline dietary fatty acid
> intake were compared. Corresponding estimates for
> circulating fatty acids were 1.06 (CI, 0.86 to
> 1.30), 1.06 (CI, 0.97 to 1.17), 0.84 (CI, 0.63 to
> 1.11), 0.94 (CI, 0.84 to 1.06), and 1.05 (CI, 0.76
> to 1.44), respectively. There was heterogeneity of
> the associations among individual circulating
> fatty acids and coronary disease. In randomized,
> controlled trials, relative risks for coronary
> disease were 0.97 (CI, 0.69 to 1.36) for
> a-linolenic, 0.94 (CI, 0.86 to 1.03)for long-chain
> ?-3 polyunsaturated, and 0.86 (CI, 0.69 to 1.07)
> for ?-6 polyunsaturated fatty acid
> supplementations... Current evidence does not
> clearly support cardiovascular guidelines that
> encourage high consumption of polyunsaturated
> fatty acids and low consumption of total saturated
> fats". -
> [annals.org]
>
> Dietary intake of saturated fat by food source and
> incident cardiovascular disease: the Multi-Ethnic
> Study of Atherosclerosis - "Although dietary
> recommendations have focused on restricting
> saturated fat (SF) consumption to reduce
> cardiovascular disease (CVD) risk, evidence from
> prospective studies has not supported a strong
> link between total SF intake and CVD events... A
> higher intake of dairy SF was associated with
> LOWER CVD risk. In contrast, a higher intake of
> meat SF was associated with GREATER CVD risk. The
> substitution of 2% of energy from meat SF with
> energy from dairy SF was associated with a 25%
> lower CVD risk. No associations were observed
> plant or butter SF and CVD risk". -
> [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
> 7/
>
> Cholesterol, coconuts, and diet on Polynesian
> atolls: a natural experiment: the Pukapuka and
> Tokelau island studies - "Two populations of
> Polynesians living on atolls near the equator
> provide an opportunity to investigate the relative
> effects of saturated fat and dietary cholesterol
> in determining serum cholesterol levels. The
> habitual diets of the toll dwellers from both
> Pukapuka and Tokelau are high in saturated fat but
> low in dietary cholesterol and sucrose. Coconut is
> the chief source of energy for both groups.
> Tokelauans obtain a much higher percentage of
> energy from coconut than the Pukapukans, 63%
> compared with 34%, so their intake of saturated
> fat is higher. The serum cholesterol levels are 35
> to 40 mg higher in Tokelauans than in Pukapukans.
> These major differences in serum cholesterol
> levels are considered to be due to the higher
> saturated fat intake of the Tokelauans. Analysis
> of a variety of food samples, and human fat
> biopsies show a high lauric (12:0) and myristic
> (14:0) content. Vascular disease is uncommon in
> both populations and there is no evidence of the
> high saturated fat intake having a harmful effect
> in these populations". -
> [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
>
> Coconut fats - "Coconut fats account for 80% of
> the fat intake among Sri Lankans. Around 92% of
> these fats are saturated fats. This has lead to
> the belief that coconut fats are 'bad for health',
> particularly in relation to ischaemic heart
> disease. Yet most of the saturated fats in coconut
> are medium chain fatty acids whose properties and
> metabolism are different to those of animal
> origin. Medium chain fatty acids do not undergo
> degradation and re-esterification processes and
> are directly used in the body to produce energy.
> They are not as 'bad for health' as saturated
> fats. There is the need to clarify issues relating
> to intake of coconut fats and health, more
> particularly for populations that still depend on
> coconut fats for much of their fat intake. This
> paper describes the metabolism of coconut fats and
> its potential benefits, and attempts to highlight
> its benefits to remove certain misconceptions
> regarding its use". -
> [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
>
> Dietary intake and the risk of coronary heart
> disease among the coconut-consuming Minangkabau in
> West Sumatra, Indonesia - "Similar intakes of
> saturated and unsaturated fatty acids between the
> cases and controls indicated that the consumption
> of total fat or saturated fat, including that from
> coconut, was not a predictor for CHD in this food
> culture. However, the intakes of animal foods,
> total protein, dietary cholesterol and less plant
> derived carbohydrates were predictors of CHD". -
> [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]


EXCELLENT jtprindl, excellent!

Soon l will post a nice tidy summery of all of the many findings and what all the research is pointing to. Lots and lots of interesting things can be said because there are many interesting distinctions that need to be made between many factors.

Panchito wrote:
"Generally, if you exercise regularly, you can measure how foods affect you in the long term. But just sitting and fantasizing about how you feel may not be a good strategy."

That statement is spot on, you need to test your strength and stamina regularly. I also include jumping in WILD waters and enduring Sun/Light on that list, generally being in the elements to see how you hold up.

TSM wrote:
"Is the fruit making people feel good for the right reasons or are they feeling good because it is catrering towards sugar addiction???"

In my opinion, I would say that drinking fermented urine is an addiction. You do know that all the waste matter that rains down on us is coming out through the urine which you're then fermenting and drinking?!? I also think that the sprout mixtures and concentrated sprout/grass/bean ferments etc are all drug like in their toxicity.

You're a peculiar cat TSM I'm curious, can you do a steady slow 5 mile run. How about hiking 10+ miles in altitude in mountanous terrain, you know activities that test your strength and stamina? What's your view of sex?

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why would l want to test my strength and
> stamina??? What is so important about that, and
> how is it relevant to my life???

Exercise is life. Life, diet, and exercise are interrelated through deep mechanisms. You brain life (theoretical life) is only an illusion. There is a whole more. All this inconveniences add up to chronic problems through aging. Many people that follow a bad diet or don't exercise don't notice the effects till the end. Is their life, diet, lack of exercise bad?

If you don't use it, you lose it. Why would your body stay the same just because you think/want so?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2014 07:10PM by Panchito.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> If you don't use it, you lose it. Why would your
> body stay the same just because you think/want so?


He's not advising or promoting being sedentary and doing nothing physically, he's saying there's no point in going to extreme lengths of exercise just because you want to prove you're the fastest, strongest, toughest, etc. because that mindset is all based off ego. Also, our thoughts have the ability to significant impact our body, the placebo effect is an example of this. As far as the rest of your post, I have no idea what you're trying to say.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> He's not advising or promoting being sedentary and
> doing nothing physically, he's saying there's no
> point in going to extreme lengths of exercise just
> because you want to prove you're the fastest,
> strongest, toughest, etc. because that mindset is
> all based off ego.



Exactly. There is absolutely no point to it, it is just ego based, thoroughly inane and completely mindless. I have got far more important things to do than to be able to claim l run faster than yesterday's time.

On my death bed l want to be able to feel happy about all the people l helped in this life. I do NOT want to be on my death bed talking about how l could run the fastest, had the biggest muscles, could hike 50 miles without getting tired to prove l had "strength" and "stamina" etc.

I have no time for sport and little time for trivial things or small talk. I don't mind other people doing these things if they choose to, but l don't want to know anything about it. Note: when l say mindless, it does not mean that the folks engaging in these activities are neccessarily mindless, it just means that the activities they are doing is mindless (they have fallen into the inanity trap).

I did not mentioned anywhere competitive exercise. How is hiking or walking a competitive-fast exercise? You imagine/twist things to justify the dead lifestyle created by a high fat diet. How is feeling "grounded" to the floor going to help anybody?

"You imagine/twist things to justify the dead lifestyle created by a high fat diet."

Only in your imagination do high-fat diets create a "dead lifestyle". You also aren't understanding what he's saying.

"How is feeling "grounded" to the floor going to help anybody?"

Who's grounded to the floor?

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Who's grounded to the floor?

Read this parallel post from TSM: [www.rawfoodsupport.com]

Quote

You want to feel great, feel grounded, and feel AS SOLID AS A ROCK all day long without any alteration of energy at all

fat, oils, etc makes you feel grounded. When you eat a box of donuts, you feel grounded and great. When you eat oil, you feel grounded because the oil is now in your blood. You cannot park the body. It needs exercise. If you park an apple it rots. The body needs motion because it is biological. It is not an ideological rock.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2014 10:17PM by Panchito.

"Read this parallel post from TSM: [www.rawfoodsupport.com]"

He's saying that you want sustainable energy all day long instead of dealing with high's and low's.

"fat, oils, etc makes you feel grounded."

I don't know what you mean by grounded but I certainly feel good and energized after a healthy-fat meal. Anyways, what are you even trying to insinuate? That if one feels good after a meal, they are just "getting their fix" (which could also be said for high-fruit eaters and sugar)... yet if one feels bad then that's obviously not a good sign, either. What you're trying to say is another baseless comment and another unsuccessful, pathetic attempt to bash fats. Maybe you feel lethargic or something because your digestion is subpar.

"You cannot park the body. It needs exercise."

Nobody here is saying not to exercise.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2014 10:28PM by jtprindl.

Sure, if you don't move you "sustain" the energy better because you are not expending any energy. But that only takes you so far. People watching TV all day feel great too. But there is a time when payback strikes. What are you going to do, a new theory that saves you from moving?

"What are you going to do, a new theory that saves you from moving?"

I don't know what you don't understand... nobody here is saying not to move or exercise.

"Sure, if you don't move you "sustain" the energy better because you are not expending any energy. But that only takes you so far. People watching TV all day feel great too. But there is a time when payback strikes."

The body can use both fats and carbs for energy and fat is the heart's main fuel (which is kind of important during long-duration exercise). Again, nobody is saying not to move.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2014 10:54PM by jtprindl.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I did not mentioned anywhere competitive exercise.
> How is hiking or walking a competitive-fast
> exercise? You imagine/twist things to justify the
> dead lifestyle created by a high fat diet. How is
> feeling "grounded" to the floor going to help
> anybody?

I think it's best we talk about something else Panchito.


Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> When you eat oil, you feel grounded because the
> oil is now in your blood. You cannot park the
> body. It needs exercise. If you park an apple it
> rots. The body needs motion because it is
> biological. It is not an ideological rock.

Oh for heaven's sake Panchito, you are not following what has been said correctly. Once again, it's best we talk about something else.


Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> What are you going to do, a new
> theory that saves you from moving?


Oh Panchito...how are you getting these funny ideas in your head? jtprindl follows perfectly well, but you seem to be missing the point of my messages here. Never mind...as l have said twice above,"it's best we talk about something else".

this is the "grounded" excuse after you eat all that fat. It turns out that inactivity is now the best thing ever according to TSM. ja ja ja enjoy stilness. What a sorry excuse for the effects of a bad diet. you are the one fallen in the INACTIVITY trap. Anybody with common sense knows exercise is good.

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have no time for sport and little time for
> trivial things or small talk. I don't mind other
> people doing these things if they choose to, but l
> don't want to know anything about it. Note: when l
> say mindless, it does not mean that the folks
> engaging in these activities are neccessarily
> mindless, it just means that the activities they
> are doing is mindless (they have fallen into the
> inanity trap).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2014 11:10PM by Panchito.

"Anybody with common sense knows exercise is good."

Are you on drugs? Once again... not one person here has said inactivity was healthy or that we shouldn't move or exercise.

"this is the "grounded" excuse after you eat all that fat. It turns out that inactivity is now the best thing ever according to TSM. ja ja ja enjoy stilness. What a sorry excuse for the effects of a bad diet."

He's talking about intense exercises and physical activities like hiking/running extremely long distances, lifting weights to get huge biceps, playing sports etc... not exercise in general.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2014 11:15PM by jtprindl.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He's talking about intense exercises and physical
> activities like hiking/running extremely long
> distances, lifting weights to get huge biceps,
> playing sports etc... not exercise in general.

Now we got a divergence of opinions between you and TSM. You acknowledge that exercise is good and needed. But TSM says he doesn't got time to exercise. He rather do more important tasks. Exercise to him is mindless. You been on the diet very little time to feel the long term effects. TSM has been on fat diet longer. What makes you think you won't change your mind as time goes by?

In my spare time l rarely sit about. I am far from sedentary. I don't stop all day and am always doing something or other.

Soon l get organised and do brisk walking for 1 hour.

If l can do at least 30 minutes brisk walking and 30 minutes of weights l consider that o.k (it keeps me maintained). I should do more, but that is not always possible with my workload. I do value exercise. None-the-less, you are never going to se me exercising for 3 or more hours per day because that is silly and un-neccessary imo.

Ideally l try to do 90 minutes exercise each day, but always try to do a minimum of an hour. If you meditate, grow all you own food etc it is hard to find the time.

glad to see the new information come out

TSM exercise rutine
---------------------------------------
30 mins of walk (ideally 90 mins)
or 30 mins of weights (ideally 90 mins)

That changes things. You will be like Dr. Mercola if you dig into the right books

FYI if you walk/hike at a pace of 3 mph per mile (very slow), you could do a 5 mile walk in ~1.5 hrs hours

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jtprindl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > He's talking about intense exercises and
> physical
> > activities like hiking/running extremely long
> > distances, lifting weights to get huge biceps,
> > playing sports etc... not exercise in general.
>
> Now we got a divergence of opinions between you
> and TSM. You acknowledge that exercise is good and
> needed. But TSM says he doesn't got time to
> exercise. He rather do more important tasks.
> Exercise to him is mindless. You been on the diet
> very little time to feel the long term effects.
> TSM has been on fat diet longer. What makes you
> think you won't change your mind as time goes by?


Again you are failing to comprehend what he is saying.

Thats not true really, TSM basically said that a slow 5 mile run or a 10 mile hike is extreme movement. That's just basic maintenence that ALL the long lived cultures got as part of their natural nature based lifestyle. Since when is being in nature and hiking through her beauty and connecting and basking in it "mindless"??? In my opinion it is far more important to overall health than even diet.

Your responses to my questions were as I expected and rather than critique you I were just say that I feel that your diet and mental outlook is not serving you. Women are not temptresses, rather they are a gift far more precious than the finest raw foods. If you equate sex with the goal of male ejaculation then I understand but that is a crude suicidal act for a man. The exchange and circulation of the male and female energies between two concious partners is as lofty as it gets i.e. Taoism...

"I think that I cannot preserve my health and spirits, unless I spend four hours a day at least...sauntering through the woods and over the hills and fields, absolutely free from all worldly engagements....When sometimes I am reminded that the mechanics and shopkeepers stay in their shops not only all the forenoon, but all the afternoon too, sitting with crossed legs, so many of them—as if the legs were made to sit upon, and not to stand or walk upon—I think that they deserve some credit for not having all committed suicide long ago."
Henry David Thoreau, Walking

"I think that I cannot preserve my health and spirits, unless I spend four hours a day at least...sauntering through the woods and over the hills and fields, absolutely free from all worldly engagements....When sometimes I am reminded that the mechanics and shopkeepers stay in their shops not only all the forenoon, but all the afternoon too, sitting with crossed legs, so many of them—as if the legs were made to sit upon, and not to stand or walk upon—I think that they deserve some credit for not having all committed suicide long ago." -Henry David Thoreau, Walking

Thank you NuNativs!!!

This is exactly what I was thinking of when I read TSM's post. I remember reading decades ago about how a very large percentage of the philosophers in the 19th century would go for long 4 hour walks in the woods and I could really relate to that at the time, but I could never remember where I read it as I've looked for it many times but could never find it. Indeed, I do my most creative work while I'm going for long walks in the woods.

One of the things that I've noticed over the years is that people have a tendency to do what they are good at and if one is not very coordinated, for example, they usually don't like to be very active and I can understand why it's not as much fun for them to play games and sports.

But then for those people to say that playing games and sports is "the devil's work and pure mindlessness" or is "pure mindlessness and borders on the evil of ego and is certainly living in the illusion" is extremely ironic because it reflects their EGO!

I do agree with TSM about watching sports as it represents today's current version of the Roman Bread and Circuses and is definitely a huge DISTRACTION!

One more thing that I've been wanting to mention on the subject of those people who meditate for many, many hours every day and claim that they can travel the universe has to do with what I believe happens after we die. I have a feeling that this is what happens after we die and if that is true, which is a big what if, why do these people want to waste their time on earth while they have a physical body and can enjoy its pleasures?

Perhaps the answer goes back to what I said earlier - "people have a tendency to do what they are good at and if one is not very coordinated, for example, they usually don't like to be very active"!

I used to play sports all the time (primarily basketball & kickboxing) and it's something I plan on doing again in the future strictly for the benefits of the physical activity. Jumping all the time in basketball is great for the lymphatic system and kickboxing is a great workout overall for the entire body and you sweat crazy amounts so it's a good detox. I think small amounts of intense exercise accompanied by easy-going exercise such as gardening or hiking is optimal. Consistently moving, staying grounded to the earth, and being in the sun is key.

The main problem with sports in America is that everyone takes them way too seriously. People literally kill each other because they root for different sports teams, it's insanity. Athletes are treated like Gods and get paid hundreds of millions of dollars, not only from sports but from endorsements. People who are helping to save others from chronic disease are given breadcrumbs compared to most professional athletes - just another example of corporations reigning supreme over people in this collapsing, corrupt country.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2014 02:15PM by jtprindl.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> The main problem with sports in America is that
> everyone takes them way too seriously. People
> literally kill each other because they root for
> different sports teams, it's insanity. Athletes
> are treated like Gods and get paid hundreds of
> millions of dollars, not only from sports but from
> endorsements.

Organized sports, and their fans, are a lot like cult members. I see full grown, even elderly, men walking around in sports team costumes with their idol's name and number on the back, out in public.
Men dressed up like little boys! What if full grown and elderly women start walking around in public in childhood ballerina tutus or their childhood little princess dresses? It would be like Never Never Land Halloween every day of the year. Creepy.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The main problem with sports in America is that
> everyone takes them way too seriously. People
> literally kill each other because they root for
> different sports teams, it's insanity. Athletes
> are treated like Gods and get paid hundreds of
> millions of dollars, not only from sports but from
> endorsements. People who are helping to save
> others from chronic disease are given breadcrumbs
> compared to most professional athletes - just
> another example of corporations reigning supreme
> over people in this collapsing, corrupt country.


Professional sports represent the messed up thinking in this world because it is of the dark forces. They need to pay sports people big money to keep the masses distracted and entertained by inanity so they don't have to think about anything important. The big money from business gets involved to ensure there will be no end anytime soon to this nonsense. The ultimate plan is to distract mankind with inanity while the rulers go about making plans of further eroding their rights. If they can keep the masses out of the way the rulers can run all over the slaves who go to these games.

Do you really think political leaders etc really care about the sports games they go to? Of course not. All they are trying to do is make the slaves think they are regular people and say it is good to go to mindless sports games. Rulers and famous people turning up to sports games is promotion for the sport...it makes the masses of slaves feel good about going too.


SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Organized sports, and their fans, are a lot like
> cult members. I see full grown, even elderly, men
> walking around in sports team costumes with their
> idol's name and number on the back, out in
> public.
> Men dressed up like little boys! What if full
> grown and elderly women start walking around in
> public in childhood ballerina tutus or their
> childhood little princess dresses? It would be
> like Never Never Land Halloween every day of the
> year. Creepy.


100% agreed. Give them books and all they would do is chew the covers off them, suck their thumbs and dribble everywhere.

I would help these people if they were in trouble or needed help, but l would generally keep my distance and certainly would NOT not have anything to do with their inanity what so ever.

How did we get off subject and on to competitive sport?. Of course they're absurd. Nice deflection...

NuNativs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How did we get off subject and on to competitive
> sport?. Of course they're absurd. Nice
> deflection...


Most threads veer as all over the map as this one does so what are you asking about - the original topic or are you just wanting to get back to your Spanish inquisition of TSM?