I don't want to labour the point on the medication issue any further, but l will make one more point. This is a general point made NOT in relation to Brian. In my strong opinion, if an alternative healer is going to change medication, they must work with an M.D. Why? Because they have had 6 years of training and a healer may not have the knowledge to make the decisions that need to be made. SO, despite M.D's killing large numbers of people due to bad decisions, it may be possible an unqualified person may kill even more when messing with drug medications.

It is important to be seen as above board in the public's eyes so the public don't see alternative healers as extremists. Unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world. Much of the modern world is not ready for alternative healing yet, so we need to be careful in the image we present. If we start going outside of our training and messing with medications, that will not present a good image to the public and will make our job harder to win people over to natural healing.

Besides, HHI do have an M.D on call, or at least they did have. Dr Steven Lemberg was the man, a living foods raw vegan of many decades. Steven looks fantastic too, he is about 56 years of age. If the accusations on Brian are correct, you would at least hope he would work with Steven via phone or in person (works part time there) or at least have some M.D at HHI full time. It's important to be seen to be doing things properly or else our reputation can suffer. Again, it is nice to be an idealist, this is not a perfect world, so we must follow procedures. I am not more a fan of the medical profession/chemo/drugs than anyone else here.


Dr Steven Lemberg - raw living food vegan of many decades


www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2014 11:49PM by The Sproutarian Man.

Well IF its the same Dr. Steven Lemberg of Orlando, FL, it looks like he agreed to give up his M.D. license in the State of Florida last December 2013. Something about "Misprescribing or overprescribing drugs". Action Taken: Surrender.

I hope it is not the man, but the Dr Lemberg who surrendered his licence is from Palm Beach Florida, not far from HHI. And now Dr Lemberg is no longer part of the HHI medical staff.

[www.healthgrades.com] (click on download link and go 4 -5 pages down)

Sometimes l wish l never knew of any of this HHI/Clement drama because ignorance can be bliss. I liked the days when l saw Brian in the highest possible light and believed he was a Ph D and could do no wrong. Talk about crashing to the ground...l liked my fantasy world much better. Hopefully when all this muck passes things can get back on track.

www.thesproutarian.com

[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
Raw Food Educators VERSUS the Medical Conspiracy/Monopoly...

Yes, it does seem that the two Dr. Lemberg's are one & the same. I thought Lemberg's photo looked an awful lot like Brian Clement's.

P.S. I must be tragic for John Rose to have to live 24 hours a day inside John Rose's head

“Destiny or karma, depends upon what the soul has done about what it has become aware of.” -Edgar Cayce

As HHI is under fire right now, could you guys please produce more factual evidence than just speculation and a lot of innuendo? Under Lemberg's bio, he says that he was involved in breast cancer diagnostics for years. The link that TSM gave is for a pain medication doctor. KFCA said that it does look like the same doctor.
Could this be the same doctor? It doesn't make sense. Please do more digging and show better evidence.

And also, what's all this talk about Brian lying? Both accredited and non-accredited institutions give out degrees and letters. It's not a lie to place letters after your name if a non-accreditated school legitimately gave you those letters under their own parameters. Some people even get honorary titles. That is why people often explain what school they went to, so the public can decide if they want to place trust in that source of education. Some people may look at Brian Clement's years of practice at Hippocrates as legitimate enough and not care if the school he went to was not-accredited (I have no idea myself. I didn't investigate...I am just saying what-if). Also many people may get a PhD or an MS degree, but fail to pass their licensure test, so technically, they may still be a PhD, but not be licensed in their field.

Tai Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> And also, what's all this talk about Brian lying?
> Both accredited and non-accredited institutions
> give out degrees and letters. It's not a lie to
> place letters after your name if a
> non-accreditated school legitimately gave you
> those letters under their own parameters. Some
> people even get honorary titles. That is why
> people often explain what school they went to, so
> the public can decide if they want to place trust
> in that source of education. Some people may look
> at Brian Clement's years of practice at
> Hippocrates as legitimate enough and not care if
> the school he went to was not-accredited (I have
> no idea myself. I didn't investigate...I am just
> saying what-if). Also many people may get a PhD or
> an MS degree, but fail to pass their licensure
> test, so technically, they may still be a PhD, but
> not be licensed in their field.

If you see no distinction between legitimate and illegitimate degrees I suppose spending the five or so minutes to investigate for yourself "what's all this talk about Brian lying" is not worth your time whereas forming an opinion based on nothing is. OK.

I've always liked this quote, especially since every major sector of human endeavor, including our educational systems, are owned and controlled by PSYCHOPATHS!!!

"Everyone receives two kinds of education: the one given him by someone else, and the other, far more important, which he gives himself." -Edmond Bordeaux Szekely







Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2014 01:39AM by John Rose.

SueZ wrote:
If you see no distinction between legitimate and illegitimate degrees

Tai:
That is not true. I know both NMDs who went to accredited naturopathic schools and also NDs who did not go to them, but who got their ND degree before NMDs existed, and also I know NDs who got their certificates from correspondence schools. I certainly understand the distinction between accredited and non-accredited. I know the incredible investment of time, money and sacrifice to go to an accredited NMD school.

I understand the vast difference it means if Brian got his degree from an online school versus an accredited school. I also know what it means to call someone a liar, when technically it may not be true.

Tai Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ wrote:
> If you see no distinction between legitimate and
> illegitimate degrees
>
> Tai:
> That is not true. I know both NMDs who went to
> accredited naturopathic schools and also NDs who
> did not go to them, but who got their ND degree
> before NMDs existed, and also I know NDs who got
> their certificates from correspondence schools. I
> certainly understand the distinction between
> accredited and non-accredited. I know the
> incredible investment of time, money and sacrifice
> to go to an accredited NMD school.
>
> I understand the vast difference it means if Brian
> got his degree from an online school versus an
> accredited school. I also know what it means to
> call someone a liar, when technically it may not
> be true.

Good! I hope you bring more facts to the table in this search for the truth.

OK I went to a site thru Bing called Florida Archives, Page 2 of 4, PsychSearch, and there's colored photo of the Dr. Steven Lemberg (M.D.), who surrendered his Florida Medical License last December. And gee if it isn't the spitting image of the Dr. Steven Lemberg once associated with HHI.

I like Brian Clement. Does anyone know about his relationship with Ann Wigmore? Were they friends, was he the raw food chef once? I have no idea, thats why I am asking.

I would never want to see anyone accredited from a university. Indoctrination camps. My healer is mother nature. They do some really messed up things to people in the mainstream dinosaur medical arts.

Chlorophyll is the all time medicine for our bodies. Everything started from grass. We are grass. All Flesh is grass. Clement and his clinics love pushing grass on people. They like to bounce around on rebounders and eat lots of sprouts with blended garlic dressing. Avocado halves with pink sauerkraut. Not a bad holiday.





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2014 03:49AM by coconutcream.

KFCA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK I went to a site thru Bing called Florida
> Archives, Page 2 of 4, PsychSearch, and there's
> colored photo of the Dr. Steven Lemberg (M.D.),
> who surrendered his Florida Medical License last
> December. And gee if it isn't the spitting image
> of the Dr. Steven Lemberg once associated with
> HHI.


Yep, sure enough. I've seen that photo somewhere else, too...

"The entire Board agreed that at the least he would be banned from ever again prescribing any controlled substances and may not ever re-apply for the right to do so. Also, he would never again be allowed to work in any clinic where these types of drugs were commonly prescribed.

That and a whole host of re-training and fines of about $62,000.00 apparently were too much for Lemberg so he decided to just give up.

The people of Florida are safer today."



[www.psychsearch.net]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2014 05:14AM by SueZ.

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't want to labour the point on the medication
> issue any further, but l will make one more point.
> This is a general point made NOT in relation to
> Brian. In my strong opinion, if an alternative
> healer is going to change medication, they must
> work with an M.D. Why? Because they have had 6
> years of training and a healer may not have the
> knowledge to make the decisions that need to be
> made. SO, despite M.D's killing large numbers of
> people due to bad decisions, it may be possible an
> unqualified person may kill even more when messing
> with drug medications.
>
> It is important to be seen as above board in the
> public's eyes so the public don't see alternative
> healers as extremists. Unfortunately we don't live
> in an ideal world. Much of the modern world is not
> ready for alternative healing yet, so we need to
> be careful in the image we present. If we start
> going outside of our training and messing with
> medications, that will not present a good image to
> the public and will make our job harder to win
> people over to natural healing.
>
> Besides, HHI do have an M.D on call, or at least
> they did have. Dr Steven Lemberg was the man, a
> living foods raw vegan of many decades. Steven
> looks fantastic too, he is about 56 years of age.
> If the accusations on Brian are correct, you would
> at least hope he would work with Steven via phone
> or in person (works part time there) or at least
> have some M.D at HHI full time. It's important to
> be seen to be doing things properly or else our
> reputation can suffer. Again, it is nice to be an
> idealist, this is not a perfect world, so we must
> follow procedures. I am not more a fan of the
> medical profession/chemo/drugs than anyone else
> here.
>
>
> Dr Steven Lemberg - raw living food vegan of many
> decades
> [i19.photobucket.com]
> %207/DrStevenLemberg_zps11ee5a90.jpg

Let's just get these two photos of the M.D. HHI chose to have as their on call M.D. on the same page and in the same post to make easier for everyone to compare them for themselves ...

[www.psychsearch.net]

* Well that didn't work but you can see the other photo TSM posted on page 7. Just scroll down about 3/4's of the way down the page.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2014 03:05PM by SueZ.

KFCA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK I went to a site thru Bing called Florida
> Archives, Page 2 of 4, PsychSearch, and there's
> colored photo of the Dr. Steven Lemberg (M.D.),
> who surrendered his Florida Medical License last
> December. And gee if it isn't the spitting image
> of the Dr. Steven Lemberg once associated with
> HHI.

KFCA, do you know anything about HHI's new officially bona fide on call M.D. yet? Those are quite some shoes to fill.

Okay, KFCA and Suez proved who Lemberg is.
Yet, the most important point is that Brian Clement wrote the book, "Supplements Exposed" and he teaches about the dangers of using synthetics, which vitamins and drugs are made of. Brian teaches to be kind to your liver, so whatever Lemberg did with the pain meds does not reflect on Brian.

Just guessing, but I'd say the current on-call M.D. at HHI is the Dr. Paul Kotturan, who shows up on Our Team as "Director of Vida Building". Dr. Kotturan's full-time job seems to be running a walk-in clinic in Deerfield Beach, FL called "Hillsboro Urgent Care", so his position as "Director" at HHI does not seem very full-time. But just guessing...

KFCA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just guessing, but I'd say the current on-call
> M.D. at HHI is the Dr. Paul Kotturan, who shows up
> on Our Team as "Director of Vida Building". Dr.
> Kotturan's full-time job seems to be running a
> walk-in clinic in Deerfield Beach, FL called
> "Hillsboro Urgent Care", so his position as
> "Director" at HHI does not seem very full-time.
> But just guessing...

Hmmm. This guy? From looking at that doc in a box site could it be he is an employee not the owner of the, I guess, open even on Christmas franchise?

At this link it shows where he (if it's the same guy who is now HHI's M.D.) went to "medical school"...

[www.insiderpages.com]

A little about that school...

"2 MEDICAL SCHOOLS CLOSED IN SCANDAL"

[www.nytimes.com]


A creepy (IMO) 3 count case with a $4000 fine and ordered community service ...

1) Failure to meet standard of care

2) Inadequate medical records

3) Making a false report

[www.circare.org]

I understand that Dr. Paul Kotturan is the full time doctor at HHI. He is new to HHI, and l think he may have replaced Dr Lemberg.

I went to the healthgrades,com site, and it says that Dr. Paul Kotturan's Med School graduation was from "Universidad Centrec" in 1982, and that he did his residency at University of Miami/Jackson Memorial Hospital. Interesting that the NYT article was from 1984.

IF that's the same guy of course...

KFCA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Interesting that the NYT
> article was from 1984.

Yes, I noticed that too...

Tai Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Okay, KFCA and Suez proved who Lemberg is.
> Yet, the most important point is that Brian
> Clement wrote the book, "Supplements Exposed" and
> he teaches about the dangers of using synthetics,
> which vitamins and drugs are made of. Brian
> teaches to be kind to your liver, so whatever
> Lemberg did with the pain meds does not reflect on
> Brian.


We don't really know yet what the most important points are. The investigation seems to have just scratched the surface so far of what is really going on at that place. There seems now to be a repeating pattern of M.D. hiring choices that may prove to be significant. And don't forget there are two other employees in the lawsuit who's stories are not out in public yet and are probably being saved for later.

I'm glad that SueZ and KFCA are researching this. Every person is entitled to know the exact credentials and qualifications of anyone who is treating them.

"Waitress, excuse me, but what is in your salad dressing?"

Sprout power!





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2015 08:25PM by coconutcream.

Sorry if this is a bit OT but who else in here think Dr (stands for Durian) Clement deserves the title best dressed man in the raw world?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2015 09:13PM by persimmoncat.

suncloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm glad that SueZ and KFCA are researching this.
> Every person is entitled to know the exact
> credentials and qualifications of anyone who is
> treating them.

Yes we sure do deserve to know what the exact credentials and qualifications are of the people who's hands we put ourselves into when we seek out alternatives to allopath medicine and our lives are at stake.

Who wouldn't rather be paying for their education loans than for their super salesmen suits and groomings?

Does it matter what someones credentials are if years of experience is on their side? Doesn't real life examples mean more than credentials?