Indeed, the phrase "Cooked Food is Poison" strikes a nerve in all those who Eat Cooked Food!

Why is this reality so hard to accept?

Addictions and Denial are the main reasons, but we cannot forget the role Ignorance plays in this equation.

To illustrate my point, we could rate all of our Diets and/or Lifestyle Choices on a scale from 1 to 10 where 1 is the worst and 10 is the best and if we are currently at a 1 or a 2 and we have 10 Warning Symptoms/Dis-Eases and we switch to a 4 or a 5 where we are still eating some Cooked Food and 5 of our Warning Symptoms/Dis-Eases go away or even all 10 of our Warning Symptoms/Dis-Eases go away, some people will think that Cooked Food cannot be a Poison because my Warning Symptoms/Dis-Eases went away. It is this type of faulty reasoning based on Ignorance that makes some people think that Cooked Food cannot be a Poison.

Another way in which some people might think that Cooked Food cannot be a Poison is that they maybe currently at a 4 or a 5 on a scale of 10 and they have 1 Warning Symptom/Dis-Ease and they don’t change their Diet and/or Lifestyle Choices or they do make better choices but they are still eating some Cooked Food and they take some Drugs/Poisons that interfere with our body’s communication process or they take some Herbs and do some Acupuncture that clear some type of blockage and the Warning Symptom/Dis-Ease goes away and since they are still eating some Cooked Food, some people will think that Cooked Food cannot be a Poison because my Warning Symptom/Dis-Ease went away. Once again, it is this type of faulty reasoning based on Ignorance that makes some people think that Cooked Food cannot be a Poison.

Of course, there are other reasons why some people rationalize their COOKED FOOD ADDICTIONS, but Ignorance is at the top of the list and this Ignorance includes a Lack of understanding that with the Law of Cause & Effect comes the Ripple Effect. Most people are so Ignorant that they think that if we have to Supplement our Ideal Diet of Raw Plant Foods, then Raw Plant Foods cannot be our Ideal Diet and that’s because, once again, they do NOT understand that with the Law of Cause & Effect comes the Ripple Effect.

The Law of Cause & Effect is very easy for most people to understand and accept - most people understand that “we reap what we sow,” but from my experience most people seem to struggle with the concept of the Ripple Effect where Effects become Causes, as in the Causal Loop and Effects become Knowledge, as in the Knowledge Loop. In other words, everything we do affects us and that’s the Law of Cause & Effect and then, those Effects Accumulate and that’s the Ripple Effect. The Law of Cause & Effect has to do with our Anatomical Limitations that we were given at birth and the Ripple Effect has to do with our Anatomical Limitations from making Mistakes that have DAMAGED Ourselves, Society and the Environment.

In other words, the fact that some of us might need to Supplement our Ideal Diet does NOT Negate the Anatomical Limitations that we were given at birth. All it means is that we screwed up and made Mistakes and some of us have become dependent upon these Mistakes. The classic example are Norwegians who have eaten fish for millennium and since fish have so much DHA, they are no longer able to make any DHA, which is a level 2 nutrient that healthy people are able to make. The same thing can happen to us if we are not eating the right Omega 3 to 6 ratio, so we too may need to Supplement on a Temporary basis until our bodies return to homeostasis.

So is "Cooked Food a Poison"?

What happens when we Pollute our Food with Fire?

1. Proteins coagulate and we lose 50% of the biological value
2. Carbohydrates caramelize and form a carcinogenic substance known as Acrylamides
3. Fats are rendered Carcinogenic
4. Natural fibers lose their ability to sweep the alimentary canal clean
5. 30% to 50% of Vitamins and Minerals are destroyed or are potentially lost
6. 100% of Enzymes are damaged
7. 100% of Biophotons are destroyed
8. Pesticides are restructured into even more toxic compounds
9. Oxygen is lost
10. Free radicals are produced
11. Heat degenerates nucleic acids and chlorophyll
12. Alien food substances are created that the body cannot metabolize
13. Chemicals from cooked food causes tumors
14. We turn our fast moving sewage system into a slow stagnant cesspool.

In addition to the above, COOKING our FOOD is the Fall of Mankind because FIRE destroys 1 of our Senses - see #7 above.

Peace and Love.......John

In order to understand the Fall of Mankind, we must understand that the Golden Age was a time when there were NO Problems that were 100% Within our Control. So the Fall of Mankind is when we made a Mistake and created a Problem that is 100% Within our Control and the only thing we have that is 100% Within our Control would be our Lifestyle Choices where we must Satisfy 2 Groups of Needs.

“Memories and Visions of Paradise”
by Richard Heinberg

The Fall and the Origins of Human Evil

The Saddest Story

What is evil? Is evil suffering, or the cause of suffering? In either case, evil may be said to be inherent in nature – in predation, decay, disease, and famine. Yet people in every culture and in every age have held to the belief that in the human world there exists another kind of evil that is profoundly unnatural. We may look to Nature for the source of human tendencies toward waste, warfare, greed, and the restless urges to possess, dominate, and kill, but no clear analogy suggests itself. Nature’s evils tend to exist in balance, predation and famine mitigating overpopulation, whereas the human version of evil apparently knows no bounds. From the earliest times, human beings have believed that there is a quality in themselves that sets them apart from the animals – a quality that manifests itself as a sense of alienation and insufficiency and as an abnormal capacity for destructiveness and cruelty.

Ancient peoples insisted that evil in this latter sense has not always existed, but that it had a specific cause. In their myths, the evil that is unique to humanity is described as having resulted from the Fall – the tragic event that brought the Golden Age to an end. They said that human nature is not natural at all, because it has been distorted by some fundamental mistake or failure that has been perpetuated from generation to generation.

...

So what is the MISTAKE that almost every parent passes down to their children?

The simple answer is COOKED FOOD and as a result, most people think that Cooking is an Art when in reality, Cooking is the ORIGINAL SIN!!!

Peace and Love.......John

Any way you could post the sources/links to studies for you information?

I was actually debating the changes foods go through when cooked with my husband the other night. I would be very interested in some scientific studies to back up my point. The internet has so much conflicting information to weed through and I only have one nutritional book with one reference to the toxicity of grilled meat specifically. It would be interested to see some facts about other cooked foods too.

Man had already fallen before cooking came.
It took time to learn and get to use fire.
Before that they ate raw food, fruits mostly.
But they were already naked, had already fallen.
The fall is just another way of saying that man identifies with his animal nature instead of the spiritual nature.
He is a spirit in a body not a body who happens to have a spirit.
When that is understood, then our true nature is that of love and wisdom.

poison:

any substance that impairs health or destroys life when ingested, inhaled, or absorbed by the body in relatively small amounts. Some toxicologists suggest that, depending on the dose, all substances are poisons. Many experts state that it is impossible to categorize any chemical as either safe or toxic and that the real concern is the risk or hazard associated with the use of any substance. Clinically all poisons are divided into those that respond to specific treatments or antidotes and those for which there is no specific treatment. Research continues to develop effective antitoxins for poisons, but there are relatively few effective antidotes. Maintaining respiration and circulation is the most important aspect of treatment. See also poisoning treatment. poisonous, adj.
Mosby's Medical Dictionary, 8th edition. © 2009, Elsevier.


Tai:
"Some toxicologists suggest that, depending on the dose, all substances are poisons."

So true, even water can be lethal if drank to excess.

In general, the phrase, "cooked food is a poison", can often lead to an orthorexic mindset. Consider the two examples I gave of the two men I know that avoided cooked food, like it was a POISON, and their weight dropped significantly and they experienced irreparable bone loss. In their case, malnutrition was a bigger factor than eating cooked food. (I shared this story in the post 'is some cooked food okay')

And going back to poisons...Victoria Boutenko discovered she couldn't eat kale endlessly, as she reacted to the alkaloids and found she had to rotate her greens. And we know what happens to people who avoid all greens and only try to eat fruit. (Even one person like that still needed medicine and had to go to the hospital and that medicine they gave that person was not fruit!)

Go tell the starving people of the world that cooked food is a poison. It was that exact sentence that was THE biggest turn off to me in learning from rawists. Once I accepted that rawists have their own blinders on, and that I had to cherry pick information, I came back to learn.

I am a vegan, but the saddest part of the phrase "cooked food is a poison' is that some raw vegans, when trying to improve their health, attempt to dabble in animal foods and they have convinced themselves that meat should be eaten raw, if ever eaten. The rawists don't consider cooked herbs, but they will consider raw eggs, raw milk and even raw fish, etc. I have seen nasty infectons, both viral, bacterial and parasitical from the practice of humans eating raw animal foods. Raw milk products are okay in some instances, like for babies or those who feel they really need them, but if the milk is infected with a virus, like leukemia, which is worse....pasteurization or a live virus taking hold in your body? is it any wonder that the Indians from India cook their milk products?

<<<Man had already fallen before cooking came. ...The fall is just another way of saying that man identifies with his animal nature instead of the spiritual nature.>>>

You are making the same Mistake that Tai made. Tai blamed the Fall on man’s Selfishness and you are blaming the Fall on man NOT identifying with his Spiritual Nature and in both cases, these are Subsequent Causes and are NOT the Primary Cause.

In other words, Selfishness and NOT identifying with our Spiritual Nature are only 2 of the many Symptoms from having a Weak Connection to everything around us and having a Weak Connection to everything around us is one of the many Symptoms from the Fall of Mankind and the Fall of Mankind is our 1st HUGE Mistake that Caused a Problem that was 100% Within our Control and that 1st HUGE Mistake is Cooking our Food.

Now let’s take a look at the rest of the chapter from “Memories and Visions of Paradise” by Richard Heinberg where he talks about the Consequences of the Fall…

1. …a sense of alienation and insufficiency
2. …separated from the divine Source, that a former sense of oneness with the ground of Being has been lost, and that only by a process of purification and transcendence can we be reconnected with the sacred dimension.
3. …we have departed from an original condition of wise innocence and can return to it only through the resolution of some profound inner discord.
4. …The story of Nyambi and Kamonu, like nearly all African myths of the Fall, tells of the disappearance of God into the sky
5. …The Indic peoples describe the fateful change in human character by emphasizing the First People’s loss of saintliness:
6. …Attachment and false discrimination produces a condition in which our awareness of the fullness and magic of the present moment are drowned out by the mind’s restless machinations.
7. …Whatever the causes of the Fall, its effects are described similarly in almost all traditions. With disobedience, attachment, and forgetting come the loss of contact with the sacred Source;
8. …Of all the results of the Fall, the most grievous was the loss of the divine presence.
9. …What caused…the most suffering was God’s departure. God disappeared. He withdrew and was no longer perceptible…In the opinion of the Pygmies who spoke of these things, God’s withdrawal was undoubtedly the greatest catastrophe that ever befell mankind; the other consequences of sin were less keenly felt.”

Once again, all of these are the Consequences of the Fall and are NOT the Cause of the Fall!!!

The Fall of Mankind was an Event.

We did something as a Species that created the Dark Side of our Behavior.

We did something as a Species that Changed our Mentality.

We did something as a Species that Dis-Connected us from the Divine.

We did something as a Species that Destroyed a Nutrient that Feeds our 6th Sense.

Remember, Cooking our Food Destroys Biophotons by 100% and Biophotons Feed our 6th Sense.

Now here is the rest of that chapter from “Memories and Visions of Paradise” by Richard Heinberg in its entirety keeping in mind that Heinberg does NOT know about Raw Food and Biophotons and has made some of the same mistakes that some of you guys have made…

“Memories and Visions of Paradise”
by Richard Heinberg

The Fall and the Origins of Human Evil

The Saddest Story

The Saddest Story

What is evil? Is evil suffering, or the cause of suffering? In either case, evil may be said to be inherent in nature – in predation, decay, disease, and famine. Yet people in every culture and in every age have held to the belief that in the human world there exists another kind of evil that is profoundly unnatural. We may look to Nature for the source of human tendencies toward waste, warfare, greed, and the restless urges to possess, dominate, and kill, but no clear analogy suggests itself. Nature’s evils tend to exist in balance, predation and famine mitigating overpopulation, whereas the human version of evil apparently knows no bounds. From the earliest times, human beings have believed that there is a quality in themselves that sets them apart from the animals – a quality that manifests itself as a sense of alienation and insufficiency and as an abnormal capacity for destructiveness and cruelty.

Ancient peoples insisted that evil in this latter sense has not always existed, but that it had a specific cause. In their myths, the evil that is unique to humanity is described as having resulted from the Fall – the tragic event that brought the Golden Age to an end. They said that human nature is not natural at all, because it has been distorted by some fundamental mistake or failure that has been perpetuated from generation to generation.

Every religion begins with the recognition that human consciousness has been separated from the divine Source, that a former sense of oneness with the ground of Being has been lost, and that only by a process of purification and transcendence can we be reconnected with the sacred dimension. Whether it is the Judeo-Christian guilt for the sin of Adam and Eve in the Garden, the Taoist nostalgia for the era before the Way of Heaven was corrupted by the ways of men, or the Africans’ sorrow for humanity’s betrayal of the animals, everywhere in religion and myth there is an acknowledgment that we have departed from an original condition of wise innocence and can return to it only through the resolution of some profound inner discord.

What caused the Fall? Why and how was the Age of Innocence brought to an end? These questions have perplexed theologians and philosophers for millennia, and we cannot hope to answer them with finality in a few pages, though we must at least pose and consider them. The myths themselves do not present a straightforward, unified explanation; rather, in describing what seems to be a shift in the fundamental polarity of human consciousness, they employ a variety of images that seem to be metaphors for some subjective, spiritual event….

Degeneration and Change of Character

According to nearly every tradition, the Fall occurred because of a debasement of the quality of character expressed by human beings. The nature of the process of decay is described in various ways. If we hope to penetrate to the kernel of the story, perhaps it is best to begin with the simplest and most easily understood versions before we proceed to the more enigmatic ones. The following African myth provides an apt and picturesque starting point.
According to the Barotse of Zambia, the Creator, Nyambi, once lived on Earth with his wife, Nasilele. Nyambi had made fishes, birds, and animals, and the world was full of life. But one of Nyambi’s creatures was different from all the rest. This creature was Kamonu, the first man. Kamonu was special because he was able to imitate everything Nyambi did. If Nyambi was making something out of wood, Kamonu would do the same. If Nyambi was creating in iron, Kamonu would work in iron as well….

The story of Nyambi and Kamonu, like nearly all African myths of the Fall, tells of the disappearance of God into the sky because of human depravity…Thus, according to the Africans, it was people’s cruelty, quarrelsomeness and insensitivity to Nature that caused the Fall.

The Native Americans agree. The Yurok of the Northern California coast say that when the Earth was new it was inhabited by the immortals, myth-time beings who lived in accordance with cosmic law. When people were created, the Immortals went away: “While the world itself remained perfect and beautiful, human beings had the capacity to violate and disrupt that beauty, to throw off the balance of Creation through, especially, their greed.” Similarly, the Hopi say that long after the time of creation people began to depart from the instructions of the Great Spirit…

The Indic peoples describe the fateful change in human character by emphasizing the First People’s loss of saintliness:

In the Treta Yuga (the second age) sacrifices began, and…virtue lessened a quarter. Mankind sought truth and performed religious ceremonies; they obtained what they desired by giving and doing.

In the Dwapara Yuga…religion lessened one half…Mind lessened, Truth declined, and there came desire and disease and calamities; because of these men had to undergo penances. It was a decadent Age by reason of the prevalence of sin.

In the Kali (present) Yuga…only one quarter of virtue remaineth. The world is afflicted, men turn to wickedness; disease cometh; all creatures degenerate; contrary effects are obtained by performing holy rites; change passeth over all things.

The Greek poet Hesiod, in his enumeration of world ages, described the degeneration of humanity in similar terms:

Then they who dwell on Olympus made a second generation…They could not keep from sinning and from wronging one another, nor would they serve the immortals…For now truly is a race of iron, and men never rest from labor and sorrow by day, and from perishing by night.

…Adam and Eve were stewards of the creative process, enjoined to tend and keep the Garden. The story implies that human beings were originally concerned with the entire process of creation rather than merely with its end products….This teaching is explicitly expressed in some Paradise myths, as well as in the core religious teachings of most cultures. Many Native American tribes (the Hopi and the Yurok, for example) tell us that the First People were instructed in the ways to maintain the balance of the forces of nature. The Fall came with their ancestors’ abandonment of responsibilities of stewardship. In one way or another, nearly all the world’s scriptures warn against “sweet, soft sinfulness”, as the Bhagavad Gita calls it, of obsessive desire for an end product in form. “Want not! Ask Not!” Krishna commands. Find full reward of doing right in right! Let right deeds be thy motive, not the fruit which comes from them.”

The Knowledge of Good and Evil

…The story (in the Bible) implies the existence of two kinds of evil – one inherent in Nature, embodied in the Tree of Knowledge itself, and one created by the act of disobedience of eating from the tree. It is the latter evil that causes Adam and Eve to hide themselves from the presence of the Lord…The first kind of evil – that which grew as fruit on the tree – exists prior to moral choice. It is the evil to which Job refers when he says, “What? Shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil?” Hindu theology acknowledges the complimentary of this pre-moral good and evil by revering Brahma the Creator and Shiva the Destroyer. The traditions of the Native Americans, Chinese, and Japanese, in their various ways, also agree that in Nature both growth and decay, completeness and incompleteness exist as essential partners in the creative process.

The second kind of evil – the moral evil that is unique to humanity – arises from judgment between the qualities and pairs of opposites inherent in Nature and from emotional attachment to categories and distinctions. Existence in the physical world in and of itself occasionally produces suffering, but it is suffering that is contained in the ebb and flow of natural cycles and processes. It is a suffering contained entirely in the present moment. The human mind produces another kind of suffering, one that has its basis in expectation and memory, arising from the mind’s attachment to its own artificial categories of discrimination and its projection of those categories onto the world. This second evil is unnatural; its origin was the Fall.

This understanding of the nature of the act of eating from the forbidden tree appears in the Judeo-Christian exegetical literature by way of the Gnostic Gospel of Phillip, in which the author traces the origin of death to the original couple’s attempt to gain knowledge by dividing experience into false categories consisting of mutually exclusive pairs of opposites: “Light and darkness. Life and death, right and left, are brothers of one another. They are inseparable.” But it is in Hinduism, Buddhism, and Taoism that the fundamental error – and psychological consequences – of false discrimination are most clearly explicated. For the Taoists, for example, the Golden Age of Grand Unity was the time before human beings had knowledge of the pairs of opposites. Chuang Tzu writes:

The knowledge of the ancients was perfect. In what way was it perfect? They were not yet aware that there were things. This is the most perfect knowledge; nothing can be added. Then, some were aware that there were things, but not aware that there were distinctions among them. Then, some were aware that there were distinctions, but not yet aware that there was right and wrong among them. When right and wrong became manifest, the Tao thereby declined.

Since it is the making of false distinctions that produces illusion, then enlightenment and liberation – the experience of Paradise – must arise from the abandoning of artificial categories of human judgment and emotional attachment to the qualities of form.

At the heart of the Buddha’s teachings are the Four Noble Truths, which affirm that all human suffering arises from desire and fear based on attachment to form and the vagaries of human discrimination. Buddhist doctrine describes nirvana – the paradisal condition of peace, wisdom, and absorption in the oneness of all being – as the natural condition of human consciousness before attachment arises and after it has ceased. While Buddhism does not acknowledge the Fall as a historical event, passages such as the following…

Attachment and false discrimination produces a condition in which our awareness of the fullness and magic of the present moment are drowned out by the mind’s restless machinations. Then, as the Gita says, “memory – all betrayed – lets noble purpose go, and saps the mind, till purpose, mind and man are all undone.”

Forgetting

A final allegorical image of the Fall is contained in the metaphor of forgetfulness. According to Gnostic, Hindu, and Buddhist traditions, it is the act of forgetting one’s true identity and purpose, because of distraction with the physical world, that produces the misery of the fallen condition.

According to Platonic philosophy, Lethe (“forgetfulness”) has erased not only temporal memory, but also the Ideas – that is, the absolute knowledge of universal principles. In the process of being born, the soul forgets the Ideas, its own past identity, and the collective past of humankind. This forgetting, according to Plato, is the primary cause of human illusion and suffering.

The central myth of the early Christian Gnostics, as preserved in the Acts of Thomas, also revolves around forgetting and remembering. A prince from the East comes to Egypt seeking “the one pearl. Which is in the midst of the sea around the loud-breathing serpent.” The Egyptians make the prince a captive and give him food that makes him forget who he is. “I forgot that I was a son of kings, and I served their king; and I forgot the pearl, for which my parents sent me, and because of the burden of their oppressions I lay in deep sleep.” But his parents, learning of his captivity and amnesia, send a letter:

From thy father, the King of kings, and thy mother, the mistress of the East, and from thy brother, our second (in authority), to thee our son. Call to mind that thou art a son of kings! See the slavery – whom thou servest! Remember the pearl, for which thou wast sent to Egypt!

The letter turns into an eagle and flies to the prince. Alighting beside him, it speaks and turns again into a letter.

At its voice and the sound of its rustling, I started and rose from my sleep. I took it up and kissed it, and I began and read it; and according to what was traced on my heart were the words of my letter written. I remembered that I was a son of royal parents, and my noble birth asserted its nature. I remembered the pearl for which I had been sent to Egypt, and I began to charm him, the terrible loud-breathing serpent. I hushed him to sleep and lulled him into slumber, for my father’s name I named over him, and I snatched away the pearl, and I turned to go back to my father’s house.

This story may be seen as an allegory for the process of incarnation. Prior to birth, the human spirit lives in the eternal realms of light, but in birth – the journey to Egypt – it enters a sleep of forgetfulness. The pearl is the purpose for which the pearl incarnates; the serpent is a metaphor for the mind’s powerful addictions. The letter is gnosis – spiritual knowledge that brings wakefulness and remembrance.

The Gnostics often described this ontological forgetfulness as a state of deep sleep or drunkenness into which the soul has fallen by its involvement with form. “Burning with desire to experience the body”, the spirit has forgotten its real nature. “She forgets her original habitation, her true center, her eternal being.”

If the images of forgetfulness and sleep are powerful metaphors for the Fall, remembering and awakening likewise serve as apt descriptions of the goal of all spiritual practices in every cultural setting: the object of meditation and ritual is always to remember, to awaken.

Awakening implies a return to the awareness of the soul’s celestial origin, and the messenger who brings this awakening offers life, salvation, and redemption. A Manichaean text exhorts: “Awake, soul of splendor, from the slumber of drunkenness into which thou hast fallen…follow me to the place of the exalted earth where thou dwellest from the beginning.” The injunction is not merely to remember who one divinely is, but to remember also the commission with which one has incarnated: “Slumber not nor sleep, and forget not that which thy Lord hath charged thee.”

Being “awake” means maintaining a consciousness of Heaven while on Earth. Hinduism and Buddhism regard the true Self (purusha) as an expression of the divine ground of Being, individualized in human form. Sin consists of forgetting one’s true Self, all suffering ensues from this. The core teaching of the Upanishads, Tat tvam asi (That thou art) corresponds to the letter in the Gnostic myth quoted above, sent by the King of kings (Brahman) to the prince (Atman) to remind him of his royal heritage.

The Effects of the Fall

Whatever the causes of the Fall, its effects are described similarly in almost all traditions. With disobedience, attachment, and forgetting come the loss of contact with the sacred Source; death and the necessity for reproduction; and limitations of various kinds, such as the loss of luminosity and the abilities to fly and to communicate with the animals. Human beings must now labor to compensate for the diminution of their various natural abilities, and must wander through life unaware of their real nature, purpose, and collective past.

Of all the results of the Fall, the most grievous was the loss of the divine presence. Paul Schebesta writes that for the Pygmies’ first ancestors,

“What caused…the most suffering was God’s departure. God disappeared. He withdrew and was no longer perceptible…In the opinion of the Pygmies who spoke of these things, God’s withdrawal was undoubtedly the greatest catastrophe that ever befell mankind; the other consequences of sin were less keenly felt.”

In all traditions, as Eliade points out, the longing for Paradise is first and foremost the longing for the immediate communion with Deity:

“The nostalgia for origins is a religious nostalgia. Man desires to recover the active presence of the gods.”

We have already considered several myths that attribute the origin of death to the transgressions of the earliest human beings. Whereas human beings once lived forever, could fly, and could visit heaven at will, they have now become earthbound creatures who are, in Eliade’s phrase, “limited by temporality, suffering, and death.”

The Books of Adam and Eve tell how the original couple’s very flesh was changed. Prior to the Fall, Adam and Eve glowed with visible light; now their bodies were dense and animal like.

And, indeed, when Adam looked at his flesh, that was altered, he wept bitterly, he and Eve, over what they had done…and Adam said to Eve, “Look at thine eyes, and at mine, which before beheld angels in heaven, praising; and they, too, without ceasing. But now we do not see as we did: our eyes have become of flesh; they cannot see in like manner as they saw before.” Adam said again to Eve, “What is our body to-day, compared to what it was in former days, when we dwelt in the garden?”

Like the First People of the Mayan tradition – who could see “equally well what is far and what is near” – Adam and Eve had lost a “bright nature” that had allowed them to stretch their gaze to encompass Heaven and Earth:

Then God the Lord said unto Adam, When thou wast under subjection to Me, thou hadst a bright nature within thee, and for that reason couldst see things afar off. But after thy transgression thy bright nature was withdrawn from thee; and it was not left to thee to see things afar off, but only near at hand; after the ability of the flesh, for it is brutish.

…In the myths of the Greeks, Native Americans, and Africans, the cruelty of human beings causes them to forfeit their friendship with the animals. But then, having lost their divine powers, the people are reduced to a condition materially equivalent to that of the animals, with whom they can no longer communicate…

Innocence has gone. Human beings are estranged both from the gods and from Nature, and are caught in an addictive round of fear and desire that saps both memory and vital powers. Already, they know the dulling sense of shame and loss. Not only their subjective experience, but the very substance of their physical bodies is changed. Moreover, their new mode of existence is destined to have effects reaching far beyond themselves.

Peace and Love..........John

I would invest a pretty penny to ride the time machine which took john to the fall of man, you speak with such convincing vigor about such an event that I can see no other way you have amasssed such knowledge.

<<<I would invest a pretty penny to ride the time machine which took john to the fall of man, you speak with such convincing vigor about such an event that I can see no other way you have amasssed such knowledge.>>>

DAMN...my secret is out!

[www.merriam-webster.com]
poison

: a substance that can cause people or animals to die or to become very sick if it gets into their bodies especially by being swallowed

: something (such as an idea, emotion, or situation) that is very harmful or unpleasant
[www.merriam-webster.com]

<<<It was that exact sentence that was THE biggest turn off to me in learning from rawists.>>>

Once again, the phrase "Cooked Food is Poison" strikes a nerve in all those who Eat Cooked Food!

<<<Go tell the starving people of the world that cooked food is a poison.>>>

If we NEVER ate COOKED FOOD, NO ONE WOULD BE STARVING!!!

Interesting thread to say the least.

John, why are you so convinced that it is cooked food that led to the fall of mankind? Why do you think people started cooking food?

Here is a clip to back up my leukemia mention in my post above, especially for pet owners that like to give their pets all raw animal products:
(by the way, digestive enzymes for pets are pretty inexpensive.)

[www.notmilk.com]

What happens to other species of mammals when they are
exposed to the bovine leukemia virus? It's a fair question
and the answer is not reassuring. Virtually all animals
exposed to the virus develop leukemia. This includes
sheep, goats, and even primates such as rhesus monkeys
and chimpanzees. The route of transmission includes
ingestion (both intravenous and intramuscular) and cells p
resent in milk. There are obviously no instances of
transfer attempts to human beings, but we know that the
virus can infect human cells in vitro. There is evidence
of human antibody formation to the bovine leukemia virus;
this is disturbing. How did the bovine leukemia virus
particles gain access to humans and become antigens?
Was it as small, denatured particles?

If the bovine leukemia viruses causes human leukemia,
we could expect the dairy states with known leukemic
herds to have a higher incidence of human leukemia.

Is this so? Unfortunately, it seems to be the case!
Iowa, Nebraska, South Dakota, Minnesota and Wisconsin
have statistically higher incidence of leukemia than
the national average. In Russia and in Sweden, areas
with uncontrolled bovine leukemia virus have been linked
with increases in human leukemia. I am also told that
veterinarians have higher rates of leukemia than the
general public. Dairy farmers have significantly
elevated leukemia rates. Recent research shows
lymphocytes from milk fed to neonatal mammals gains
access to bodily tissues by passing directly through
the intestinal wall.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2015 09:00PM by Tai.

"(by the way, digestive enzymes for pets are pretty inexpensive.)"

Do you have any high-quality brands to recommend?

I know a woman who had a cat that got leukemia and died. Then her other cat got leukemia and died. Then her husband got leukemia and died. This makes me doubt it's just a cow to human problem.

JTP...wrote:
Do you have any high-quality brands to recommend?

Tai:
[store.nexternal.com]
I bought this for my cats: $15 for 4 oz., cheaper than what humans get. I am not sure if it's high quality. My cats aren't vegan but I bought various things for them from this site. They eat those products (like the vegeyeast) when I make them food (and mix it in to their regular stuff), but I rarely have time.

SueZ wrote:
"I know a woman who had a cat that got leukemia and died. Then her other cat got leukemia and died. Then her husband got leukemia and died. This makes me doubt it's just a cow to human problem.

Tai:
Very important sharing, SueZ. Yes, many pathogens infect so many different animals. I only gave the milk example, because so many humans with leukemia drink infected cow milk and never put two and two together. Of course, humans can get diseases from their pets, including cats. It is possible that there was two ways of transmission in the example you mentioned, not to mention that so many people get cancer these days from toxic lifestyles. We know diet is so key at keeping the immune system healthy.

Here is a case of man that got bubonic plague from his cat, who got it from an infected rodent:
[www.dailymail.co.uk]

I agree completely John.

Is cooked food a poison? Well, it seems to be for me, and I avoid it. For others, cooked food might be a poison, or might not be. I don’t really know.

Raw or not, it's probably always a good idea to include fruits and veggies in the diet.

One thing to consider though: cooking food uses a lot of fuel – trees, coal, oil, etc.

As for the fall of humankind, I think we fall everyday, get up everyday, fall again, get up, etc. In the process, hopefully we learn something.

Overall, I like to think we humans are consistently evolving for the better. It's a slow process: a few steps back, a few more forward, and perhaps progress is an infinite phenomenon.

John, can you provide a reference for your statement that Norwegians cannot make DHA? Never heard that before. Thanks.

Overall, I like to think we humans are consistently evolving for the better. It's a slow process: a few steps back, a few more forward, and perhaps progress is an infinite phenomenon.

I think we are devolving.

The more education a woman has, the fewer children she has.

We are making it so that the people who provide the fewest resources have the most children. Maybe it was always so. But once you provide a woman with a means to opt out, you will be getting an increasing contingent of poverty in many ways, not just financial ones.

A lot of clever women have no interest in reproduction. These days, who can afford it? Most of us need to make a living. I can barely cover my own expenses let alone the $200K plus required to raise a child to the age of 18.

It's often the people who don't stop to think about these things that have kids. Maybe they want kids more than the ability to look after them. Maybe they want somebody to look after them when they get older and just hope things will turn out for the best.

I never had those assumptions. All of my children are dogs.

arugula half of all college students are women and they graduate need a guy and then go home and have babies

coconutcream Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> arugula half of all college students are women and
> they graduate need a guy and then go home and have
> babies


Yeah. Some of them want the babies more than the guy.

Some of them marry gay guys because they are beautiful,
rich, and well-connected.

Sometimes I come across a beautiful man and for about
a millisecond I think, "I want his baby." But then the
millisecond passes.

I dated a beautiful man many years ago. He was a professional
soccer player. He was so beautiful that waitresses would drop
their trays when they saw him (this actually happened a few times
when I was with him). I thought I was the luckiest girl in the
world to nab him.

After about two weeks he announced that I was going to have
his baby.

At some point I realized I was just a life support system
for a uterus to him. He was locked in an ugly custody battle
with his ex-wife and really wanted a kid of his own with
somebody who was not her.

[snipped the drama parts]

I am glad that is over.

I am glad that you have kids.

I am glad that my kids are dogs, though! I imagine too many
horrible what-if scenarios. I don't have the intestinal
fortitude for reproduction. I get nervous for my students,
even, and I don't even love them! (well, maybe some of them).

PLEASE ARUGULA I WANT TO HEAR THE WHOLE STORY!!

Well, he wasn't a vegan. He would order hamburgers from fast food places and eat them outside of the house or car. He didn't want the smell to bother me.

I was ok with that.

But when he started talking about how lucky I was to have him and how glad my dad and brother must be that I have him now, I started to wonder if I was really that lucky.

He talked often of the supermodels that he used to date.

He referred to himself in the third person: as if he were a Ferrari.

But the final straw was when he told me the reason why he divorced. In short it was not the girl's fault.

I could not deal with the ego.

Not that I am perfect.

But I was not raised to put myself last all the time and make myself invisible.

Guys like that can only tolerate girls like that.

He was nice, sweet, and gentle. But he was first, 100% of the time. I could not deal with it.

Arugula, why did he divorce?

Coconutcream, that is for PM. It is ugly and disturbing.

<<<John, why are you so convinced that it is cooked food that led to the fall of mankind?>>>

Hey jt,

I have been contemplating this for a very long time and I have simply found too many Pieces of the Puzzle that fit and the more one thinks about it, NOTHING else could have the profound effects that FOOD has on us, especially COOKED FOOD because COOKING Destroys Biophotons and Biophotons are what allows us to FEEL Connected to everything around us!

Here are 2 posts related to 2 books that I have read in the last year that are 2 more HUGE Pieces of the Puzzle that fit all too well. The author of the first book in the first post below (“Memories and Visions of Paradise” by Richard Heinberg) knows nothing about Raw Food and yet, his description of Paradise and the Fall of Mankind sounds exactly like he’s describing Biophotons. The author of the second book in the second post below (“The Teachings of the Essenes from Enoch to the Dead Sea Scrolls”), however, does know about Raw Food and they are very explicit about One Law!

Post #1
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
Re: IS COOKED FOOD A POISON???
Posted by: John Rose
Date: January 15, 2015 01:46PM

…

“Memories and Visions of Paradise”
by Richard Heinberg

The Fall and the Origins of Human Evil

The Saddest Story
…
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]

Post #2
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
RAW is the LAW!!!!!!
Posted by: John Rose
Date: December 11, 2014 10:54AM

Here is a Recap from “The Teachings of the Essenes from Enoch to the Dead Sea Scrolls”:
…
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]

<<<Why do you think people started cooking food?>>>

I have also been contemplating this for a very long time and obviously, I can only speculate as to why we started to Cook our Food. Some people speculate that lightening started a forest fire and some of the burned animals offered man his first taste of BBQ. This seems plausible to me and upon further contemplation, one of the first things I thought of was Man’s Curiosity. We might have simply been curious and put our Food in Fire or we got curious and traveled north in the summer only to find ourselves in cold climate in the winter and had to Eat Foods that needed to be Cooked, Animals and Tubers, for example. This too seems plausible to me and upon further contemplation, I thought that there was probably some form of Catastrophe or Climate Upheaval or Act of Nature where we had to become Opportunistic Eaters in order to Survive.

The last of the 3 possibilities above seem to me to be the most probable of them all and upon further contemplation, I realized that this has to be a Common Event throughout the Universe and I asked myself, how many Groups of Guardians could there be?

Altogether, I have come up with 5 Main Groups of Guardians throughout the Universe and now I ask you, how many Groups of Guardians can you come up with?

I’ll end this Post with 2 Older Posts by Ana who responded to one of my Posts on Greek Mythology and Raw Food where this college professor talks about Cooked Food and the Fall of Mankind.

[www.living-foods.com]
Re: The Connection Between FIRE and Our Suffering
Ana
Date: 01-15-01

Wow, John. Did you take my class? This is part of what I teach at university. Indeed, there are many references in history and mythology that deal with human compromise, traditionally known in the West (as well as Mesopotamia and Greece) as "The Fall", that is, when humans opted out of nature and into synthetic, or man-made, modes of living. Many myths attribute The Fall to the discovery of fire, because, indeed, this is man's first break with the nature environment. Ivrahim Ronin writes some good stuff about this. Another good read is Reay Tannahill's "Food in History".

With fire humans began over using the natural resources (chasing animals with fire, which enabled them to kill large numbers at once, whether or not they needed that many, AND burning up the entire forest in the process, etc.). Fire also enabled the development of pottery, which is eventually going to lead us to cooking our food...Early pottery was extremely poisonous and toxic, though, so this will take a long time to perfect. That is why much later, people freaked out over Chinese porcelain--it enabled people to cook without worry of lead or food poisoning...(En passant, one thing scholars today cannot figure out is how early humans made the mental leap to boil water; they would not have had anything to mimic in nature, and they would not have had the tools and utensils to do this until way down the road. The verdict is still out on that one. Nevertheless, it is fun to speculate about that one!)

Thus, Greek mythology associates the discovery of fire with the advent civilization itself, even though chronologically these two events are not simultaneous; rather, the Greeks had a penchant for going back to the "first cause"--much like what you (John Rose) are attempting to do. They (and others) claimed that without fire none of what actually ensued historically would have/could have occurred.

A funny thing about all of this, is that WE were taught that all of this was a boon for humankind, rather like we USED to be backward and now we are "advanced". But, if you read the literature, the people who were opting out of nature at the time viewed it as a reactionary/defensive move. They were embarassed/ashamed that they no longer cooperated with nature. That is why, when they made synthetic items for their survival (bowls, columns, temples, etc.), they made them LOOK like something out of nature (a shell, tree trunk, cave, respectively); they were hoping that the divine spirits and other humans wouldn't notice. It wasn't like today when we create something unnatural--like cloning and GE foods--and then parade it proudly across the land saying, "Look at how brilliant I am...". That was Sophocles whole point when he wrote, "Wonders are many in the world, and the wonder of all is man..." He was being ironic, but OUR culture uses his statment as proof that we are meant to be superior to the natural world. We ignore that he concluded his ode with "Yet, in his rashness he (man) scorns the ways that are good...let him keep from MY hearth and hand!"

BTW, Pythagorus (of the Theorum) was a great proponent of rawfoodism as a means of associating with the unseen forces; this eventually would make its way into Plato's ideas (Plato was a big fan of Pythagorus), and some say (I"m still out on this one) eventually to Jesus...

Just some thoughts which I am sure will draw outraged responses from the offended.

Ana
[www.living-foods.com]

[www.living-foods.com]
Re: The Connection Between FIRE and Our Suffering
Ana
Date: 01-15-01

John Hi

Here is an interesting raw food myth about the Origins of Death. It is from the Darasa, Gada (Africa) people. I don't have a date on it though.

"Formerly men had no fire but ate all their food raw. At that time they did not need to die for when they became old God made them young again. One day they decided to beg God for fire. They sent a messenger to God to convey their request. God replied to the messenger that he would give him fire if he was prepared to die. The man took the fire from God, but ever since then all men must die."

Ana
[www.living-foods.com]

Peace and Love.......John





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2015 06:25PM by John Rose.

I will not list all the Wrangham refs, I am sure you are familiar with them already.

bunches of free pdfs here on how we adapted to cooking and hypotheses about what this might mean regarding our brain development:
[scholar.google.com]


Even great apes prefer cooked food. It's human (and animal) nature to prefer the most concentrated calorie source obtained with the least amount of effort. That this is toxic is without a doubt as evidenced by our burgeoning obesity epidemic.

When you add blenders and juicers to the equation, it gets more complicated. These are ways of incorporating lots more uncooked food in the diet. And this means more calories, too. When combined with the very high fat approach I can see how this would tend to lessen some of the potential benefits of a more natural raw lifestyle (whole plant foods only).

I do not think that all cooked food is poison. Beans are still very high in fiber, protective phytochemicals, and micronutrients when they are cooked, as are greens and many other vegetables, nuts, and seeds. Yes, some foreign substances are produced on cooking (and way many more than the few we have names for). But how much of a health hazard these molecules pose, especially when levels are kept low, remains a question. Considering that the Okinawan centenarians did just fine on an almost vegan, almost completely cooked diet, I doubt they are all that harmful.

But look what they ate: white rice, sweet potato, greens, onions, a little bit of fish. Not much else. There is a huge difference between their cooked diets and McDonalds French Fries that have been cooked in oil used in 100s of cooking cycles (oy!) or Cheez Doodles or Cinnabons.

I like the John Kohler saying: Not all unraw food items are poison. I prefer to think of them as slightly suboptimal, maybe not the best possible but better than some worse choices, more of a good-better-best thing rather than outright paradise vs. deadly poison. John works his butt off to get people to eat more raw plant foods and this is a good goal. I don't want anyone to feel lame or inadequate for not sticking to 100%. Look what they are doing with nuts and seeds these days. You can never be sure unless you picked it yourself.

"Considering that the Okinawan centenarians did just fine on an almost vegan, almost completely cooked diet, I doubt they are all that harmful."

Observing the longest lived cultures in our messed up modern day society and using them as the 'gold standard' isn't the best approach, in my opinion. Why strive to eat like them when their diet may very well be nowhere near optimal and we could live substantially longer than them? I think raw foodists should have a MINIMUM life expectancy of 100 years old provided they aren't following other unhealthy habits and aren't chronically stressed.



John,

Interesting information, I agree that all three explanations are logical possibilities. I don't really know what you're referring to when you speak of "groups of guardians" - could you elaborate more on that? Which groups have you identified? Do you have more information on biophotons and do you think is the same thing Brian Clement refers to as "electrical frequency"?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2015 07:34PM by jtprindl.

This is from Debbie Took's blog, can't vouch for the accuracy:

TC Fry: 70 years at death
Youkta Kulvinskas: 59
Johnny Lovewisdom: 81
Herbert Shelton: 89
Edmund Szekeley: 79
Norman Walker: 99

Two of them did very well. It's a very small sample size. But it doesn't look like the raw world will be teeming with supercentenarians just yet.

The real question is, how much better will people who post here do compared to Dr. MacDougall, Dr. Barnard, Dr. Esselstyne, Dr. Campbell, Dr. Fuhrman, Jeff Novick, etc. I am guessing it will take more than 40 years to answer this question. I am watching these guys with intense curiosity.

Dr. Barnard (currently age 61) does not count himself as a raw vegan but his usual diet is about 70% raw by calories. I think he will do very well.

arugula Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is from Debbie Took's blog, can't vouch for
> the accuracy:
>
> TC Fry: 70 years at death
> Youkta Kulvinskas: 59
> Johnny Lovewisdom: 81
> Herbert Shelton: 89
> Edmund Szekeley: 79
> Norman Walker: 99
>
> Two of them did very well. It's a very small
> sample size. But it doesn't look like the raw
> world will be teeming with supercentenarians just
> yet.
>
> The real question is, how much better will people
> who post here do compared to Dr. MacDougall, Dr.
> Barnard, Dr. Esselstyne, Dr. Campbell, Dr.
> Fuhrman, Jeff Novick, etc. I am guessing it will
> take more than 40 years to answer this question. I
> am watching these guys with intense curiosity.
>
> Dr. Barnard (currently age 61) does not count
> himself as a raw vegan but his usual diet is about
> 70% raw by calories. I think he will do very well.


I believe John Rose has commented on the poor habits of a few of those on that list in the past. I think the likes of David Wolfe, Lou Corona, Gabriel Cousens, Peter Ragnar, etc. are going to live a very long time. I think Corona outlives them all. Or perhaps Wolfe with his consistent taking of super foods and longevity supplements.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2015 07:51PM by jtprindl.

I believe John Rose has commented on the poor habits of a few of those on that list in the past. I think the likes of David Wolfe, Lou Corona, Gabriel Cousens, Peter Ragnar, etc. are going to live a very long time. I think Corona outlives them all. Or perhaps Wolfe with his consistent taking of super foods and longevity supplements.

Of all these people I think John Rose will live the longest. (waves to John Rose!).

Wolfe, no way. He is way out of shape. Overweight, soft looking. Very normal for his age, in no way a paragon of health. Still pretty young (44).

Corona: He glows, he has agility, but he looks like he does not get much exercise.

Cousens: He looks his age. He has a stiffness in his movements. I don't see anything special except that he was a babe in youth. He is 71 or so now. Looks stiff and frail, no better than my dad who was cooked (mediterranean diet) at the same age.
[www.youtube.com]

Ragnar: I suspect drugs to be that big and buff at his age. Those contours are not natural. Bodybuilders are not known for their longevity.

I like the Rick Dina/Jameth Sheridan body. That is the pinnacle of a perfect management of health and looks, simultaneously, probably best for aging, too. They are thin but well-muscled without being stringy. Not too big, not too hungry-looking.

There is a u-shaped curve for medical costs. Lowest costs are incurred at a BMI of around 18 (which just so happens to be about mine). If you stray far from this you are probably not doing yourself any favors. I say that in general, not to you in specific.

arugula Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe John Rose has commented on the poor
> habits of a few of those on that list in the past.
> I think the likes of David Wolfe, Lou Corona,
> Gabriel Cousens, Peter Ragnar, etc. are going to
> live a very long time. I think Corona outlives
> them all. Or perhaps Wolfe with his consistent
> taking of super foods and longevity supplements.
>
> Of all these people I think John Rose will live
> the longest. (waves to John Rose!).
>
> Wolfe, no way. He is way out of shape. Overweight,
> soft looking. Very normal for his age, in no way a
> paragon of health. Still pretty young (44).
>
> Corona: He glows, he has agility, but he looks
> like he does not get much exercise.
>
> Cousens: He looks his age. He has a stiffness in
> his movements. I don't see anything special except
> that he was a babe in youth. He is 71 or so now.
> Looks stiff and frail, no better than my dad who
> was cooked (mediterranean diet) at the same age.
> [www.youtube.com]
>
> Ragnar: I suspect drugs to be that big and buff at
> his age. Those contours are not natural.
> Bodybuilders are not known for their longevity.
>
> I like the Rick Dina/Jameth Sheridan body. That is
> the pinnacle of a perfect management of health and
> looks, simultaneously, probably best for aging,
> too. They are thin but well-muscled without being
> stringy. Not too big, not too hungry-looking.
>
> There is a u-shaped curve for medical costs.
> Lowest costs are incurred at a BMI of around 18
> (which just so happens to be about mine). If you
> stray far from this you are probably not doing
> yourself any favors. I say that in general, not to
> you in specific.
>
> [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
> 8/bin/f1000research-2-1232-g0000.jpg


Completely disagree with virtually everything you just posted. In fact, I think much of it borders on extreme lunacy and delusion, likely influenced by some sort of ego, bias, dislike, hidden agenda, etc.

Corona doesn't exercise? Ragnar on drugs? Wolfe overweight? Are you sure you're not the one on drugs (as TSM would say, light-hearted joke)? You are clearly making claims about people you have no idea about. Your opinion/obsession with Rick & Jameth is nothing more than that.