I just wrote this, I'm thinking about publishing it on my blog, but I'm wondering whether it's too 'out there'. What do you guys think?

I have been fascinated for many years by the connection with our gut bacteria to our health, and have noticed more and more information appearing that connect physical, mental, and emotional health with the state of our digestive system, and the micro-organisms (MOs) that inhabit it.

It’s becoming common knowledge these days that humans are basically walking hotels for the teaming mass of MOs that live in our digestive tract.

I am particularly interested in the way these MOs have a strong effect on the kinds of foods we crave. You could say we are at their beck and call; in a way, they ‘dictate’ to us what they want us to eat.

When we eat a diet of heavily processed ‘convenience’ foods, our digestive system is filled with ‘the bad guys’ - dysbiotic bacteria who cause all kinds of health problems. When we eat a diet of healthy whole foods we develop a much nicer digestive community of symbiotic bacteria who live in harmony with us. Probiotic supplements and traditional fermented foods such as sauerkraut help in this repopulation of the ‘good guys’.

I have noticed in myself (and in others) a disappearance of cravings for unhealthy foods after I do a cleanse. The other night I started to think that this must be because the majority of dysbiotic bacteria (and parasites) have been cleared out during the cleanse – so they’re not there any more to ‘issue their demands’ for unhealthy food. After all, the ‘bad’ bacteria will be wanting to feed on the kinds of foods they prefer (processed junk) while the beneficial bacteria that are left after the cleanse will be craving only healthy whole foods.

That night, as synchronicity would have it, I happened to watch this documentary:
[vimeo.com]
which discussed a 21 day regimen for becoming breatharian, during which you eat and drink nothing for the 1st 7 days. The documentary highlighted several cases of people who had become breatharian, and had no hunger at all.

As I watched, I realised that during those 7 days any MOs (good OR bad) living in the gut are either going to die off, or rapidly depart the body in search of food elsewhere.

Then it hit me – are we actually eating food for ourselves, or for our colonies of MOs? Could it be that once the gut is free of bacteria, then hunger simply disappears? It would be very interesting to see if any studies had been done on the gut microbiota of breatharians.

Then I started to think back to the story of Adam and Eve and their ‘original sin’. Maybe that apple is symbolic of how food transported the first MOs into the digestive tracts of ancient humans, thereby catapulting them from the freedom and bliss of the Garden of Eden into a life of slavery to food, in which they were having to constantly find food to feed their hungry MOs?

Genesis 3:17-18: “To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’ “Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life. It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field.”

Perhaps as the colonies of MOs living in the gut proliferated and required more food, humans became hungrier and hungrier, leading them to seek more ways of food production. One could imagine that the first meals were a few handfuls of wild berries etc... then as agriculture began, man did indeed begin his ‘painful toil’ to meet an ever-growing demand for nourishment from the ‘demons within’.

The Bible tells us of early humans living for many more years than we currently believe possible - eg Methuselah is reported to have lived to the age of 969. As the generations went on though, their lifespans reduced – for instance Moses apparently lived till the age of 120. Of course, this all depends on whether or not you believe the accounts of The Bible, but if it were true, could this reduction in longevity be due to the eating/digesting of food?

Fast forward to modern times and many people eat themselves into a very early grave, with ever-increasing rates of food-related illnesses such as obesity, diabetes, cancer and heart disease. One could imagine that modern processed foods and GMOs etc come accompanied by increasingly malignant MOs, and this seems logical when we see the massive control food exerts over some people. Even when they know they could help themselves by changing their diet, they still don’t – in fact they can’t - they are absolute slaves to the parasites within.

So the question is - are we simply slaves to our gut bacteria? Is eating the ‘original sin’? Can Breatharianism be the answer to lead us back to the Garden of Eden?



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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2015 03:40PM by lisa m.

lisa m wrote:

<<<So the question is - are we simply slaves to our gut bacteria?>>>

Hey Lisa,

I have always been fascinated at how these “malevolent little beasties” can control what we crave and it really makes one think who is ruling who, especially since these guys have been around longer than us!

<<<Is eating the ‘original sin’?>>>

There is NO question in my mind that Eating the Wrong Food is the Original Sin! I have found too many Pieces of the Puzzle that fit and the more one thinks about it, NOTHING else could have the profound effects that FOOD has on us. However, when we ponder on the Original Sin, we have to make sure that we are not stuck on a Subsequent Cause from the Ripple Effect. In other words, we have made more than one Mistake relative to our Food and COOKING was the FIRST BIG MISTAKE aka the Original Sin or the Fall of Mankind, which is what created the Dark Side of our Behavior. The SECOND BIG MISTAKE was Eating Animals and that Darken the Dark Side of our Behavior and really screwed up our Intestinal Micro-Organisms. By the time the Agricultural Revolution came around, we already had 2 BIG MISTAKES under our belt and many people think that the Agricultural Revolution is the Fall of Mankind, e.g. Daniel Quinn’s Ishmael, but they have got stuck on a Subsequent Cause from the Ripple Effect and have NOT gone back to the FIRST CAUSE - COOKING!!!

<<<Can Breatharianism be the answer to lead us back to the Garden of Eden?>>>

Raw Food all by itself is too overwhelming for enough of us to reach the Tipping Point, so Breatharianism would be out of the question. The only thing that will get enough of us to reach the Tipping Point is a Juice Fast/Feast!

Indeed, we need to flush all of those “little beasties” out of our bellies and we need to Bump up the Coherent Sunlight Energy (Biophotons) in the nucleus of our cells and Juice Fasting/Feasting does both of those faster and safer than any other method and IT IS DOABLE by enough of us to reach the Tipping Point and if we do NOT reach the Tipping Point, things will NEVER Change!!!

Peace and Love.......John





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2015 04:47PM by John Rose.

Lisa M wrote:
Can Breatharianism be the answer to lead us back to the Garden of Eden?

Tai:
Lisa, not sure if you are aware of the scandals in the breatharian world. Mony Vital, friend of Jasmuheen, died at an early age while undergoing a 6 week transition back to breatharianism, as told by eyewitnesses. (He had been a breatharian for awhile and stopped and tried going back, supposedly.) Then Jasmuheen failed a test. Then Genesis Sunfire was caught drinking juice at night while being breatharian and now he appears to be eating again, in addition to the chaga tea he admits to drinking. Not to mention how many people have been reported to have died while attempting to go breatharian. Not to mention how many people have died on or soon after extended water fasting (tiny percentage, but important to know about).

You can't starve your body to reach holiness. Why isn't there only one commandment in the bible: thou shalt not cook your food? WHy is there in the bible: don't lie, don't covet (don't be jealous), don't commit adultery (even Jesus said not to lust), don't steal, don't murder...? It's because people's hearts need to be raised and even if you starve, your heart may still contain all those bad things like jealousy and hatred.

It's a bit similar amongst the vegetarian buddhist asians. Sometimes, instead of telling someone they are buddhist, they instead say they are vegetarian. The implication being that being vegetarian means they are cultivating buddhahood. Far from it. Look at how many strict vegans still have so many attachments in their hearts, including terrible vanity. The same with buddhists. It takes more than changing your diet.

I have read about many breatharian saints over the centuries, both western and eastern, and also read about spiritual cultivators ceasing to eat while undergoing intense meditation in caves, etc. But those isolated cases are not meant to change how humans live en masse. It seems from reading about true cases of breatharianism, that the people were very clear about the safety of their inedia. They weren't doing it as an experiment or a crap shoot. They had some direct communication from spirit or a full-proof method from a teacher or some assurance from a reliable source that what they were doing was proper for themselves at that moment. Compare that to random people who pick up a breatharian book and try it themselves and hurt themselves.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2015 05:49PM by Tai.

I think the problem with aiming for absolute purity is precisely the absolute part of the equation. What good are you to humankind if you die of starvation, or develop deficiency diseases?

As I write this my lentil sprouts are growing, they are so cute, their little tails are about 1.5 inches long, I almost hate to eat them because they are so beautiful.

You will have way way healthy gut bacteria if you are eating huge leafy salads and lots of fruit with an occasional handful of nuts and seeds. Having an ounce or two of hummus isn't going to undo all your friendly gut bacteria. Taking a few rounds of heavy-duty antibiotics might, though.

I totally see the desire for purity, I really do. I have this tendency myself. But while sanity is in purity for some of is, for others it's insane. We are all different and all have different paths but I will urge for some temperance because I think that is healthy, too.

I do not believe that diet is a cure for all that ails me! There are greater societal problems and they will not be solved by raw, either. Look at all the so-called gurus running amok out there. They look insane to outsiders. I think that is because they are.

We do not have to be like them.

Eating well is a gift to yourself. Do not damage yourself by insisting on strict adherence to absolutes. If this is what works for you then be sure that you do not develop any deficiency diseases or miss out on important social connections because you have to do this or that with your food. Food is a part of life but it's just a part of it.

Hi John, great points, thanks. yes, I've heard that argument about cooked food being the original sin, guess I was just extrapolating a little further Juicing is certainly more do-able, and a lot closer to where I am myself. I have found over the years I am needing to eat a lot less than I used to, especially after undergoing the sungazing process. I still love my juices though. And it really does seem to be going mainstream, everyone I speak to seems to have a juicer nowadays, which is pretty cool.

Hi Tai, yes I'm aware of all the controversy, and the documentary does point that out very clearly, but I should remember that the majority of people won't watch it. It's a good reminder you've given me, I think if I published this article on my blog I would add in some cautionary advice, just in case anyone out there decides to just stop eating for a week! And I absolutely agree that it's about more than diet, there is such a lot of emotional stuff that people need to clear out. As a counsellor/hypnotherapist, I see this first hand all the time. I am a big advocate of going very slowly at your own pace, not just racing toward a 'finish line' because somebody said you should.

Hi Arugula, just to clarify, it was more of a theoretical question I was posing - breatharianism isn't something I'm going to be trying any time soon - I do still very much like my grub Although I'm happy to be open to where my body decides to take me, in terms of living on more light / less food. It's actually not so much a desire for purity, but more of a curiosity, and a feeling that it would be pretty cool to be liberated from needing food - particularly in times of emergency.. and think of all that time I'd save in the kitchen.. ah bliss, haha.

By the way, I really do recommend the movie, it's fascinating. You can rent it for just a couple of dollars.

Breatharianism is a very misunderstood concept according to one very high level master (much higher than the usual 5th level) . I will write bullet points to explain their insights. I rarely talk about these things in public.

• Breatharianism will not bring a person to perfection, it can only bring a person to high 3rd or low 4th level by itself. In other words, if you are fortunate you may become a low level living saint by going breatharian, but it is not enough by itself to become a spiritual master.

• Breatharianism and fruitarianism is limited and not advised when one surpasses perfection at the 5th level because the strain on the body when working on planets in multi universes requires one to eat more solid plant foods during meditation or else the high level being can burn out. Eating a 100% fruit diet when crossing multi universes is not advised because one’s full power cannot be realised.

• There are no breatharian planets full of physical beings, all are either vegan planets, vegetarian or meat eating planets.

• All or most vegan planets appear to be full of living 4th level saints. That is the highest spiritual level a planet full of physical beings can achieve. Mars and the Hollow Earth are 4th level worlds. When you surpass that level you no longer need to come back or you can go to lower worlds to help elevate the consciousness. Having a planet full of 5th level beings makes no sense and it silly.

• Mars killed the outside of their planet and they learned from the experience and now most have great wisdom.

• Breatharianism is not necessary in a physical body because we are designed to have a connection to food. A vegan can be higher level than a breatharian.

• There was a universe which existed before the big bang and it is sealed off so no one except very high level beings can enter with permission from the creator. Beings in this world have also had permission from the creator to create solar systems within that universe.

www.thesproutarian.com

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You can't starve your body to reach holiness. Why isn't there only one commandment in the bible: thou shalt not cook your food? WHy is there in the bible: don't lie, don't covet (don't be jealous), don't commit adultery (even Jesus said not to lust), don't steal, don't murder...? It's because people's hearts need to be raised and even if you starve, your heart may still contain all those bad things like jealousy and hatred.

So true.

John: I know that you mean well, and I can feel your passion and conviction, but cooking food was certainly not the original sin and not responsible for the fall. I understand what you're saying, the multiple group of needs, primary and secondary needs, and that all of the things Tai listed above come as a result of cooking our food, but they preceded it. Eating raw living food by itself is not enough to bring us to perfection or divine consciousness, and as Tai has said you can eat an amazing raw vegan diet and still have much darkness in your heart and soul. Do these foods bring light energy into the body? Yes. But there are many sources of energy, and the most potent ones that effect us are our own thoughts and deeds. Greed, jealousy, lust, avarice, anger and irritability all effect us more than the food we eat. Someone eating a cooked diet who practices love, compassion, forbearance (great word Tai, had to steal it ) and humility will be much more advanced and connected than someone who eats the highest quality raw food yet is greedy, jealous, and hateful. And yes, there are raw vegans who act like that. That fact by itself should be enough to make it apparent that raw food alone is not the answer to our problems, and that cooking food is not the ultimate evil. The ultimate evil is the darkness that exists in our hearts and souls, and where it came from doesn't matter; all that matters is stripping it away so we can once again live in the light. Raw food can help somewhat, especially if it is FRESH living food full of light energy. But it is only a small part of the journey.

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Breatharianism and fruitarianism is limited and not advised when one surpasses perfection at the 5th level because the strain on the body when working on planets in multi universes requires one to eat more solid plant foods during meditation or else the high level being can burn out. Eating a 100% fruit diet when crossing multi universes is not advised because one’s full power cannot be realised.

Quote

Breatharianism is not necessary in a physical body because we are designed to have a connection to food. A vegan can be higher level than a breatharian

Very interesting, I was not aware of those two things. Thanks for the information.

Living Food wrote:

<<<John: I know that you mean well, and I can feel your passion and conviction, but cooking food was certainly not the original sin and not responsible for the fall. I understand what you're saying, the multiple group of needs, primary and secondary needs, and that all of the things Tai listed above come as a result of cooking our food, but they preceded it.>>>

Hey LF,

Wow, you are making the same mistake that Tai and RawPracticalist made and it seems that most people struggle with understanding the Ripple Effect or perhaps I’m not making myself very clear.

Please tell me what is specifically Wrong with each one of the following numbered statements and if you don’t have a reason, then give mine a try.

1) The Fall of Mankind came before “greed, jealousy, lust, avarice, anger and irritability.”

2) “Greed, jealousy, lust, avarice, anger and irritability” did NOT come before the Fall of Mankind.

3) The Fall of Mankind is the Primary Cause.

4) “Greed, jealousy, lust, avarice, anger and irritability” are only some of the many Effects.

5) “Greed, jealousy, lust, avarice, anger and irritability” are Subsequent Causes and that’s because of the Ripple Effect where Effects become Causes, but “greed, jealousy, lust, avarice, anger and irritability” are NOT Primary Causes - “greed, jealousy, lust, avarice, anger and irritability” were Effects before they became Causes.

5) Yes, “greed, jealousy, lust, avarice, anger and irritability” Cause a lot of Problems, but “greed, jealousy, lust, avarice, anger and irritability” did NOT the Cause the Fall of Mankind - “greed, jealousy, lust, avarice, anger and irritability” are only some of the many Effects or Symptoms from the Fall of Mankind.

6) The Fall of Mankind is when we did something that “Opted out of Nature” and created the Dark Side of our Behavior and “greed, jealousy, lust, avarice, anger and irritability” are only some of the many Effects or Symptoms from the Dark Side of our Behavior.

7) The Fall of Mankind came before the Dark Side of our Behavior - the Fall of Mankind is what created the Dark Side of our Behavior and “greed, jealousy, lust, avarice, anger and irritability” are only some of the many Effects.

8) Effects become Causes, as in the Causal Loop, but Effects can NEVER become the Primary Cause and the Primary Cause is the Fall of Mankind!!!

Now we must pause, reflect and ask ourselves, what could we have possibly done that could have Caused all of these Illnesses and Ill-Behaviors?

There’s only one simple OBVIOUS ANSWER and that’s our FOOD!!!

If the answer is our Food, then what was the FIRST BIG MISTAKE relative to our Food?


<<< Someone eating a cooked diet who practices love, compassion, forbearance (great word Tai, had to steal it ) and humility will be much more advanced and connected than someone who eats the highest quality raw food yet is greedy, jealous, and hateful. And yes, there are raw vegans who act like that. That fact by itself should be enough to make it apparent that raw food alone is not the answer to our problems,>>>

Yes, one would have to be a FOOL to think that Food is the only Piece to the Puzzle and yet, some people will criticize how badly some Raw Foodists act as if that’s a reason why Raw Food is NOT an important Piece to the Puzzle. You and Tai have made the same mistake here also. One can CORRECT the BIGGEST MISTAKE we ever made and NOT CORRECT all of the other MISTAKES. The fact that some people can make the BIGGEST MISTAKE and act better than those who have CORRECTED the BIGGEST MISTAKE only illustrates that with all Behavior we will have Extremes. We have Psychopaths on one end and Saints on the other and this too is a Common Mistake that is used all too frequently. The fact that some people can eat $hit and NOT act like $hit don’t Prove $hit.

<<<cooking food is not the ultimate evil. The ultimate evil is the darkness that exists in our hearts and souls,>>>

Here you go again blaming the Effect, the Dark Side of our Behavior, as the Primary Cause!

Some of you people are NOT thinking this out!!!

You have to go back to the FIRST CAUSE!!!

What is the FIRST CAUSE?

Most of you guys keep giving Subsequent Causes as the Fall of Mankind and Subsequent Causes were Effects before they became Causes.

WE DID SOMETHING THAT CREATED ALL OF THESE NEGATIVE EFFECTS!!!

What could it be?

COOKING!!!

There is NO OTHER ANSWER.

If you want to disagree with me, GIVE ME A BETTER ANSWER!!!

<<<and where it came from doesn't matter; all that matters is stripping it away so we can once again live in the light. Raw food can help somewhat, especially if it is FRESH living food full of light energy. But it is only a small part of the journey.>>>

Obviously, Raw Food is NOT a panacea because we have other Needs we have to Satisfy based on the Law of Cause & Effect and our Anatomy and we have other Needs we have to Satisfy based on the Ripple Effect and the Damage we've done to our Anatomy, Society and the Environment and I’ve written about this many times. However, Raw Food is NOT a “small part of the journey” because everybody knows YOU ARE WHAT YOU EAT!!!

Indeed, it boggles my mind that most people can’t seem to extrapolate “what everyone knows” as the reason why we have so many problems.

If WE ARE WHAT WE EAT and we don’t like what we got, why can’t we Connect the Dots?

“All of this is much easier to implement than it seems. The biggest hurdle is not the physiological but psychological. As Walter Bagehot once remarked, ‘The pain of a new idea is one of the greatest pains in human nature ... Your favorite notions may be wrong, your firmest beliefs ill founded.’ And your favorite foods may be the root cause of your greatest pains! It’s a fact of life that people find it easier to believe a lie they’ve heard a thousand times than a fact they’ve never heard before.” -Daniel P. Reid, "The Tao of Health, Sex, & Longevity" p. 79

Peace and Love.......John

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Wow, you are making the same mistake that Tai and RawPracticalist made and it seems that most people struggle with understanding the Ripple Effect or perhaps I’m not making myself very clear.

Hi John,

If everyone but you is making the same mistake, could it be possible that we're not the ones making the mistake? You're a very smart man, but knowing more than every one of us here (especially on spiritual matters)...phew, that's gotta be pretty difficult.

Just a respectful suggestion

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However, Raw Food is NOT a “small part of the journey” because everybody knows YOU ARE WHAT YOU EAT!!!

Not to the degree that many health-concious people seem to think. It's true that the body is greatly effected by what we eat, but what we eat does not have all that much impact on our soul (with the exception of animal foods). As a general rule health and spirituality are intertwined, but eating raw food by itself cannot purify your soul to any great degree.

As to the fall of mankind, I cannot speak with any authority on that subject because I am not entirely sure as to what caused it, but I do know it wasn't cooking our food.

Quote

WE DID SOMETHING THAT CREATED ALL OF THESE NEGATIVE EFFECTS!!!

What could it be?

COOKING!!!

There is NO OTHER ANSWER.

If you want to disagree with me, GIVE ME A BETTER ANSWER!!!

How about pride? Again, I don't presume to know the answer, but pride seems like a pretty good culprit to me.


Do you realize that the Fall was a necessary event?

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Obviously, Raw Food is NOT a panacea because we have other Needs we have to Satisfy based on the Law of Cause & Effect and our Anatomy and we have other Needs we have to Satisfy based on the Ripple Effect and the Damage we've done to our Anatomy, Society and the Environment and I’ve written about this many times.

We're not necessarily disagreeing with each other. We disagree over the cause of the Fall, but we both seems to agree that raw food is not an answer in and of itself. Well...if cooking our food was the cause of the Fall, but not cooking our food will NOT bring us back to divine consciousness, why does it matter if it caused the Fall or not? What matters right now is what will allow us to reconnect with our divine nature and the Creator, and you seem to agree with me that raw food is not enough. The emphasis on not cooking your food can therefore be thrown right out the window. I don't care about why I fell from Heaven, I just want to know how to get back there. Does that make sense? If I used the stairs to get from the roof of a building to the first floor, and then i wanted to go back up but there was an earthquake and the stairs were blocked by rubble, what good does it do me to know that I got down by using the stairs? I couldn't care less, I only want to know how to get back to the top of the building. Your focus on cooking our food as the ultimate evil and original sin is just like the above analogy. Let's say that cooking our food was the cause of the Fall. We cooked our food, lost our connection with the divine, and now eating raw food will not restore us to that connection. So why focus on it? The stairs are blocked, John! Time to put in the hard work building a ladder and climb our way back up through concerted effort against all of our imperfections, until we are once again worthy to stand on the roof.

Living Food wrote:

<<<If everyone but you is making the same mistake, could it be possible that we're not the ones making the mistake?>>>

No, you guys are making an OBVIOUS Mistake.

<<<It's true that the body is greatly effected by what we eat, but what we eat does not have all that much impact on our soul (with the exception of animal foods). As a general rule health and spirituality are intertwined, but eating raw food by itself cannot purify your soul to any great degree.>>>

“Soul and body, I suggest, react sympathetically upon each other. A change in the state of the soul produces a change in the shape of the body and conversely, a change in the shape of the body produces a change in the state of the soul.” -Aristotle

<<<As to the fall of mankind, I cannot speak with any authority on that subject because I am not entirely sure as to what caused it, but I do know it wasn't cooking our food.>>>

That’s what doctors say - we don’t know the Cause of Heart Disease or Cancer or Diabetes or 90% of the other Dis-Eases we treat with Drugs and Surgery, but we know it’s NOT Food!!!

If you don’t know the Cause, how can you say you know it’s NOT Food?

<<<How about pride? Again, I don't presume to know the answer, but pride seems like a pretty good culprit to me.>>>

WOW!!!

Once again, Pride is no different than Greed or anything else you guys are throwing at me as they are all EFFECTS from the Fall and NOT the Cause of the Fall!!!

Once again, some of you people are NOT thinking this out!!!

I’ve been thinking about this every day for over 20 years and some of y’all haven’t even thought about it for over 20 minutes and yet, you keep making the same mistake and cannot differentiate between the First Cause or the Primary Cause and a Subsequent Cause.

<<<Do you realize that the Fall was a necessary event?>>>

OMG!!!

There are some SERIOUS FLAWS in Religion and Spirituality and both of them take away our RESPONSIBILITY!!! Whenever we are told that “We are Born of Sin” or that “There is NO Right or Wrong and there is NO Suffering” we are being Bamboozled!!!

The idea that the Fall of Mankind was a necessary event is completely ludicrous and takes away our RESPONSIBILITY.

<<<Well...if cooking our food was the cause of the Fall, but not cooking our food will NOT bring us back to divine consciousness, why does it matter if it caused the Fall or not? What matters right now is what will allow us to reconnect with our divine nature and the Creator, and you seem to agree with me that raw food is not enough. The emphasis on not cooking your food can therefore be thrown right out the window.>>>

WRONG!!!

Once again, you don’t seem to understand the Ripple Effect.

The FIRST CAUSE or the Fall of Mankind HAPPENED when we COOKED our Food and Destroyed the Sunlight Energy that all Living Systems store in the nucleus of their cells, called Biophotons, and then all Living Systems use this Coherent Sunlight Energy to Communicate to everything else around it. Biophotons are our CONNECTION to the Divine, but with the Law of Cause & Effect comes the Ripple Effect and now we have another Group of Needs we must Satisfy.

In other words, our very FIRST BIG MISTAKE created a lot more Mistakes and we have to CORRECT ALL OF OUR MISTAKES, especially our FIRST BIG MISTAKE.

<<<I don't care about why I fell from Heaven, I just want to know how to get back there. Does that make sense? If I used the stairs to get from the roof of a building to the first floor, and then i wanted to go back up but there was an earthquake and the stairs were blocked by rubble, what good does it do me to know that I got down by using the stairs? I couldn't care less, I only want to know how to get back to the top of the building. Your focus on cooking our food as the ultimate evil and original sin is just like the above analogy. Let's say that cooking our food was the cause of the Fall. We cooked our food, lost our connection with the divine, and now eating raw food will not restore us to that connection. So why focus on it? The stairs are blocked, John! Time to put in the hard work building a ladder and climb our way back up through concerted effort against all of our imperfections, until we are once again worthy to stand on the roof.>>>

Once again, we can’t just CORRECT our FIRST BIG MISTAKE - we have to CORRECT ALL OF OUR MISTAKES!!!

Once again, some of you people are NOT thinking this out!!!

By the way, I noticed that you did NOT tell me what was specifically Wrong with each one of the numbered statements I listed in my post above. Once you understand the Truth to every one of those 8 statements, you will realize WE DID SOMETHING THAT CREATED ALL OF THESE NEGATIVE EFFECTS and you still have NOT given me a Cause.

Remember, the Dark Side of our Behavior, Greed, Pride and everything else you guys have mentioned are Symptoms and Cooking is NOT a Symptom!!!

Peace and Love.......John

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Remember, the Dark Side of our Behavior, Greed, Pride and everything else you guys have mentioned are Symptoms and Cooking is NOT a Symptom!!!

If what you say about cooking our foods destroying the biophotons, and this being responsible for all other evils today is true, then cooking IS a symptom. If destroying the biophotons through cooking is the primary evil, then cooking is a symptom of ignorance and lack of wisdom. Ignorance and lack of wisdom are also symptoms, of course, which brings us full circle. If "greed, pride, and everything we have mentioned" are excluded from being the cause of the Fall because they are symptoms, cooking must by the same rule also be excluded as being the cause of the Fall because it is also a symptom, namely of ignorance and lack of wisdom. Do you see the logical fallacy?

This leads to one of two positions, namely:

#1. None of the things we have listed, INCLUDING cooking, can be responsible for the Fall because they are all symptoms, and back to the drawing board you go!

Or

#2. Nothing we have listed, including pride, greed, and all the rest, can be EXCLUDED from being the Cause of the Fall because your assertion is that cooking is the Cause of the Fall, but cooking is a symptom. This either negates your assertion that symptoms of the Fall cannot also be the Cause of the Fall (leading to #2), or we stay with your assertion that symptoms of the Fall cannot be the Cause of the Fall and hence excludes cooking as a possibility of being the Cause of the Fall, because it is a symptom (leading to #1).


I have no interest in getting in an argument with you, I am just trying to point out some logical fallacies that I see. I'm sure that you have an answer and a rebuttal for my post, but try and look at it with an open mind. You and I could continue this for a very long time and still hold the same opinions, so I am mainly posting this for other people.

Trying to convince others about what did or did not cause the Fall is a futile pursuit and just a drain on your time and my time. Why don't you use your time to help others through sharing your health knowledge and coaching people on juice fasts etc? More good will come of that then talking about nebulous concepts that few care about.

If you're right about eating raw foods providing the biophotons that raise people's consciousness, all you should need to do is convince others to eat more raw foods and you won't have to try and convince them about what caused the Fall of man, they will understand it for themselves.

<<<If what you say about cooking our foods destroying the biophotons, and this being responsible for all other evils today is true, then cooking IS a symptom. If destroying the biophotons through cooking is the primary evil, then cooking is a symptom of ignorance and lack of wisdom. Ignorance and lack of wisdom are also symptoms, of course, which brings us full circle. If "greed, pride, and everything we have mentioned" are excluded from being the cause of the Fall because they are symptoms, cooking must by the same rule also be excluded as being the cause of the Fall because it is also a symptom, namely of ignorance and lack of wisdom. Do you see the logical fallacy?>>>

NO, you simply do NOT understand the difference between the things we think - our Belief System, the things we do - our Lifestyle Choices and the things we get - our Feedback System. The SYMPTOMS are the things we GOT, Ignorance and Lack of Wisdom are the things we think and COOKING our FOOD are the things we DO.

COOKING our FOOD or the things we DO creates an Abnormally Low Biophoton Level, which is a SYMPTOM and an Abnormally Low Biophoton Level is a HUGE Contributing Factor to the Dark Side of our Behavior and the Dark Side of our Behavior is what we GOT - it’s a SYMPTOM - it’s an EFFECT and, once again, Effects become Causes, as in the Causal Loop from the Ripple Effect.

<<<This leads to one of two positions, namely:>>>

Since your premise is WRONG, so are your conclusions!!!

<<<I am just trying to point out some logical fallacies that I see>>>

There are 2 criteria that must be met when using Logic. The first criterion is that the Context must be True or we cannot have any Logical Fallacies and the second criterion is that the Structure must be Valid and you, my friend, have an Invalid Structure. In Latin, it’s called Modus Ponens. In layman terms, you’re putting the Cart before the Horse. You are making the same Mistake Conventional Medicine makes when they believe that most of our Problems are Outside of our Control and end up blaming a Subsequent Cause as the Primary Cause, e.g. Diabetes is the leading cause of blindness in America.

WRONG!!!

Diabetes is NOT the Primary Cause any more than the Dark Side of our Behavior or Greed or Pride is the Primary Cause.

ALL OF THESE ARE SUBSEQUENT CAUSES FROM THE NEGATIVE RIPPLE EFFECT!!!

Peace and Love.......John

Quote

NO, you simply do NOT understand the difference between the things we think - our Belief System, the things we do - our Lifestyle Choices and the things we get - our Feedback System. The SYMPTOMS are the things we GOT, Ignorance and Lack of Wisdom are the things we think and COOKING our FOOD are the things we DO.

What and how we think is certainly a symptom of how evolved we are spiritually imo, but it's OK that you and I have different opinions about this. You've mentioned your viewpoint, I've mentioned mine, and now it is time to agree to disagree I think. I wish you the best of success in helping others convert to a healthier lifestyle. Peace and Love!

<<<What and how we think is certainly a symptom of how evolved we are spiritually imo,>>>

Once again, I don't think you understand the Ripple Effect where Effects become Causes, as in the Causal Loop and Effects become Knowledge, as in the Knowledge Loop and everyone knows that Experience is the best teacher. Experience is what we got or Experience is the Effect and yes, what we got affects what and how we think, but we are talking about the Ripple Effect and NOT the Law of Cause & Effect.

In other words, the Fall of Mankind has to do with the Primary Cause, i.e. the Law of Cause & Effect and NOT a Subsequent Cause, i.e. the Ripple Effect.

By the way, thanks for everyone’s feedback as it helps me understand what it’s going to take to help people see the obvious.

Living Food Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> As to the fall of mankind, I cannot speak with any
> authority on that subject because I am not
> entirely sure as to what caused it,



Temptation started it...not appreciating what we once had through lack of experience and memories about the consequences. For many it had to happen that way. We may have been created perfect with no desires outside of what we once had, but we had no wisdom because we had no memories of what happens when we succumb to temptation and take a down fall.

We take the downfall and it's consequences, we gather past life memories, we get sick and tired of where temptation has brought us, we elevate and gather great wisdom which shapes the soul and we eventually access past life memories, we then rise up and never go into temptation again because we know the consequences of the devil's system, and then we go back home from where we once came from where everything is perfect, but this time we never succumb to temptation again because we have full past life memories of the consequences and our wisdom is complete.

It fully appears to be a system where we go down the hill and then reicarnate back up the hill with full memories and wisdom. To me it can't work any other way, it seems to be a perfect system.

Everything gets the chance to have God's perfect kingdom, but few appreciate it (no wisdom) so they get cast out and have to earn their way back. The problem is, when you originally get cast out you don't have eons of experiences which have shaped your soul, so you are going to be highly prone to further temptation.

www.thesproutarian.com

People may ask, why do people begin at our first and highest home at heaven? I think that is because we all get given the best possible chance in the beginning because we were originally perfect with no taking of the temptations that brought us into sin, but as we went into temptation and lowered our stands we devolved, and over eons of time we lost our light and forgot who we were. Some of the souls went so low that they became plants or animals, however not all plants and animals are what you think they are, some have high consciousness because their consciousness is that of a higher being inhabiting the animals or plant. Soon we got sick and tired and we evolved again. The concept of the Garden of Eden seems to apply to the spiritual set up, makes me wonder.

That is a pretty full on call l have made here, but that is how it is supposed to have happened. That makes a lot of sence too. Now our spiritual system has so many combinations of physical and spirutal make ups of beings that it is mind blowing to think about, no wonder there are so many really unique beings around.

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2015 10:31AM by The Sproutarian Man.

The OP quotes the bible as if it's a categorical, unequivocal fact that it is true and that these things happened.
Nevertheless, it's an interesting hypothesis(leaving out the religious association of course).

Assuming that cooking was the original sin, what does not get explained is why was there a need to cook the food?

To me Lisa m explanation of the original sin makes sense.

When you eat the wrong things your body puts out antibodies for it, and you get addicted to them because you want to feed the antibodies. And if you do not, you get withdrawal symptoms.

I like how you address this issue.

The sin is the assimilation, the eating of something contrary to our divine nature.
Cooking is only an external activity that does not necessary force me to eat. I can cook something and not eat it, so it cannot be the original sin.
It is in the digestive system where food is made into part of us, made it life, or destroyer of life.

TSM wrote:

<<<Temptation started it>>>

It was NOT Temptation that got us in trouble - it was what we were Tempted by that got us in trouble.

It’s NOT Desires - it’s what we Desire!

Dr. Wilkinson’s Epic has St. Paul say to Krishna: “Not from desire, but from impure desire.”

What did we Desire that got us in trouble?

What was the Temptation?

Yes, Temptation may very well explain WHY we started to Cook our Food, but the ACT of COOKING our FOOD is the Original Sin and a Sin is simply a Mistake.

In other words, it’s NOT the things we think that get us in trouble, it’s the things we do. Of course, the things we think determine the things we do, but it’s the things we do that determine the things we get and what we got are a whole lot of PROBLEMS that are 100% Within our Control.

So it’s NOT our Thoughts that are getting us in trouble, it’s our Actions and blaming our Problems on Temptation does NOT keep us from COOKING our FOOD and all of this BS about Suffering one life time after another is taking our Responsibility away from us.

This is the SIN of Spirituality!!!

Whenever we think that all of our Suffering is for our Souls to Evolve, we’re being Tricked and we’re being Fooled because we’re in DENIAL and we are ADDICTED to and have fallen in LOVE with the CAUSE to most of our suffering.

What is the moral of “Bill And Judy's Chocolate Factory Analogy” that THeSt0rm posted above?

The moral of this Analogy is that everything in our Society revolves around the Original Sin and that’s because most of us are Addicted to and are in Love with the Original Sin and everything in our Society revolves around the Original Sin because the Rulers of the World could not rule over us if we were not Cooking our Food, which partially explains why most people don't know about Raw Food.

In the final analysis, Temptation, Addictions and Denial only explain why we made this HUGE MISTAKE and why we can’t Correct this HUGE MISTAKE.

Yes, these are HUGE Problems of Knowledge and yes, they are part of the Equation, but they are only Obstacles and are NOT the actual reason why we have so many Problems.

Once again, the Fall of Mankind was an event - it’s NOT what we Thought - it’s what we did!

We have to take RESPONSIBILITY and start thinking for ourselves. The False Belief that “We are Born of Sin” or that “There is NO Right or Wrong and there is NO Suffering” or that “We have to Suffer for our Souls to Evolve” is taking away our RESPONSIBILITY.

We have to Admit that We are the ENEMY and that We are also the ones that we’ve been waiting for!!!

We can put an end to this madness in our lifetime if we can stop believing in Fairy Tales and we all play our individual role by becoming the best that we can be.

Peace and Love.......John

Fascinating reading all of the comments, thanks

Anon 102, I wasn't saying that I necessarily believe the Bible is true, in fact in the original post I said: "Of course, this all depends on whether or not you believe the accounts of The Bible"

Maybe I should have made this clearer. I'm just putting a theory out there, ya know, pondering



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Cooking could not have been the original sin.
With plenty of fruits around them, the first humans must have eaten first before making a fire and the equipment for cooking their food.
It takes energy to make a fire and cook food.
Cooking is an attribute of an advanced society.
When I am so hungry why would I start eating the fruits that are easily available instead of spending my energy cooking.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2015 05:28AM by RawPracticalist.

lisa, these are some very strong replies that you received...I would just say that we should not have any prejudice in our research. Your topic is very, very interesting. All of us here learned about food, life...yet we don't like learning things beyond our comfort zone (we think that we reached the 'final truth' and we just need to spread it). Don't let other people's prejudice affect your analysis.

This thread has kept me thinking, and thinking...

Maybe at a certain level of spiritual realization.
We can survive on love and light, and sun energy alone.
We regain our original nature, transported into the garden.

Those of us who have not transformed the earthly nature and try to do breatharianism fail because it is not really a physical transformation but a spiritual change, a change of heart, being born again.

Maybe at that level of evolution, the digestive system is no longer the life feeding organ, but it is the heart that becomes the main organ.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2015 03:30PM by RawPracticalist.

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Maybe at a certain level of spiritual
> realization.
> We can survive on love and light, and sun energy
> alone.



Apparently yes.



> Maybe at that level of evolution, the digestive
> system is no longer the life feeding organ, but it
> is the heart that becomes the main organ.

Apparently yes. There are said to be some beings that don't live on food, light, or oxygen, they actually live on love vibrations alone. They are so high level and feel so much love for everything that it is all they need to survive.

Wish l could live on just love.

Quote

Apparently yes. There are said to be some beings that don't live on food, light, or oxygen, they actually live on love vibrations alone. They are so high level and feel so much love for everything that it is all they need to survive.

Wish l could live on just love.

I don't imagine you would be encountering any of these beings on this planet or that it is possible to live solely off love vibrations on such a low level world.

On higher worlds it is likely quite possible.