When we read labels on, say, hawaiian spirulina or some vitamins, or other products...and they claim that there is so much vitamin, protein, so much Omega 3...what are they actually claiming? AT WHAT POINT IS THEIR STATEMENT TRUE? (capital letters don't mean shouting, I prefer the normal, pre-internet symbols, so capitals are just 'stressed' statements).
If they say, spirulina has 100% (or more) B12 per serving...when? Before harvesting? When harvested? When packed? Or when I open the bag? Or in my body, after I eat them? When?

This question is for all the food products in the world. Spirulina, when the seeds are cracked, loses nutritional value as all the nutrients evaporate or are affected by oxygen. So?

Those facts on the label look so scientific but they actually mean nothing, it seems. Without precise declaration.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2015 03:29AM by rab.

Basically, if it's food with appreciable calories, you should not be eating anything with a label.

If it's a specific vitamin (like D or B12) it's very important. Everything else should be gotten from food. Real food, like with seeds, or stems/leaves/roots/nuts/seeds.

Use cronometer.com to make sure you are meeting all other requirements.

I do not believe in processed superfoods. Their purpose is to make marketers rich. There is no appreciable evidence that they will improve any health markers. True superfoods have minimal marketing and zero to epsilon labels. The people who sell these things are banking on your ability to believe stuff without substantiated claims.

In general the most super foods are green leaves. There is no Collard Greens board attempting to separate you from your cash. But you should eat them, or something like them, daily.

"I do not believe in processed superfoods. Their purpose is to make marketers rich. There is no appreciable evidence that they will improve any health markers."

1.) Pure ignorance.
2.) Yes, there is countless evidence that superfoods offer a wide variety of health benefits. You can keep ignoring this if it makes you feel better, though. I wish people wouldn't state their opinion as if it was fact simply because of their own delusional beliefs.

I am not being negative here...just trying to figure out the truth. I know that spirulina is still healthy when I consume it...just would be nice to know how healthy?
The best is to eat fresh. That is how the nature is made, I know.

arugula Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Basically, if it's food with appreciable calories,
> you should not be eating anything with a label.
>
> If it's a specific vitamin (like D or B12) it's
> very important. Everything else should be gotten
> from food. Real food, like with seeds, or
> stems/leaves/roots/nuts/seeds.
>
> Use cronometer.com to make sure you are meeting
> all other requirements.
>
> I do not believe in processed superfoods. Their
> purpose is to make marketers rich. There is no
> appreciable evidence that they will improve any
> health markers. True superfoods have minimal
> marketing and zero to epsilon labels. The people
> who sell these things are banking on your ability
> to believe stuff without substantiated claims.
>
> In general the most super foods are green leaves.
> There is no Collard Greens board attempting to
> separate you from your cash. But you should eat
> them, or something like them, daily.


sounds like you're saying that real food is only what can be found on a food pyramid chart taken from a 1950's nutrition textbook, very cultural biased. foods like chia and maca are a little more expensive than collard greens, and were consumed by cultures which existed and thrived long before the united states was created. are they not real foods?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2015 10:46PM by tezcal.

tezcal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> arugula Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Basically, if it's food with appreciable
> calories,
> > you should not be eating anything with a label.
> >
> > If it's a specific vitamin (like D or B12) it's
> > very important. Everything else should be
> gotten
> > from food. Real food, like with seeds, or
> > stems/leaves/roots/nuts/seeds.
> >
> > Use cronometer.com to make sure you are meeting
> > all other requirements.
> >
> > I do not believe in processed superfoods. Their
> > purpose is to make marketers rich. There is no
> > appreciable evidence that they will improve any
> > health markers. True superfoods have minimal
> > marketing and zero to epsilon labels. The
> people
> > who sell these things are banking on your
> ability
> > to believe stuff without substantiated claims.
> >
> > In general the most super foods are green
> leaves.
> > There is no Collard Greens board attempting to
> > separate you from your cash. But you should eat
> > them, or something like them, daily.
>
>
> sounds like you're saying that real food is only
> what can be found on a food pyramid chart taken
> from a 1950's nutrition textbook, very cultural
> biased. foods like chia and maca are a little more
> expensive than collard greens, and were consumed
> by cultures which existed and thrived long before
> the united states was created. are they not real
> foods?


There's lots of people in the raw community completely entrenched in dogma - it's ingrained in their brain and will likely never change. The topic of super foods is one of them. Seems to be people who cannot afford them (not that that's a bad thing) and thus want to convince themselves that they would be of no benefit anyways. Are there fraudulent companies who sell useless products? Of course, corruption exists everywhere. Failing to differentiate fraudulent companies from authentic companies with high-quality products is like failing to differentiate between organic produce and GMO, pesticide produce.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1.) Pure ignorance.
> 2.) Yes, there is countless evidence that
> superfoods offer a wide variety of health
> benefits. You can keep ignoring this if it makes
> you feel better, though. I wish people wouldn't
> state their opinion as if it was fact simply
> because of their own delusional beliefs.

Every time you make yourself look small I will repost
what you write.

THIS is what "small" looks like ...


"I do not believe in processed superfoods. Their purpose is to make marketers rich. There is no appreciable evidence that they will improve any health markers."

arugula Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jtprindl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 1.) Pure ignorance.
> > 2.) Yes, there is countless evidence that
> > superfoods offer a wide variety of health
> > benefits. You can keep ignoring this if it
> makes
> > you feel better, though. I wish people wouldn't
> > state their opinion as if it was fact simply
> > because of their own delusional beliefs.
>
> Every time you make yourself look small I will
> repost
> what you write.


Thank you, put the message out twice.

Suez, your tone is profoundly bitter and cutting. You are almost as bad as he is, I say almost because in you there is a modicum of intellect.

But your interactions with people are filled with venom and bad feelings, and I can't see how this could possibly be healthy for you. What is the point of eating healthy if you are spewing bile all over the place with everyone who tries to interact with you?

There aren't any clinical trials suggesting that superfoods extend lifespan, or lower risks of CHD, diabetes, cancers, or anything like that.

If you want something green, you can eat a wide variety of cheap, local land leaves, some of which are free in many people's backyards.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> arugula Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > jtprindl Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > 1.) Pure ignorance.
> > > 2.) Yes, there is countless evidence that
> > > superfoods offer a wide variety of health
> > > benefits. You can keep ignoring this if it
> > makes
> > > you feel better, though. I wish people
> wouldn't
> > > state their opinion as if it was fact simply
> > > because of their own delusional beliefs.
> >
> > Every time you make yourself look small I will
> > repost
> > what you write.
>
>
> Thank you, put the message out twice.

Maybe the third time will be the charm.

"There aren't any clinical trials suggesting that superfoods extend lifespan, or lower risks of CHD, diabetes, cancers, or anything like that."


Um, yes there are - countless amounts of them. Due to your dogmatic beliefs, you choose to turn your head the other way or say they don't mean anything, though. Your loss - more for those of us who are smart enough to acknowledge, utilize, and appreciate them. Many of these super foods are TCM herbs, and you stating they aren't beneficial or are ineffective is extremely disrespectful to a 2,000+ year old system of medicine. By the way, I have far more intellect than you do - and you can quote me on it.

Rab asked about B12 and spirulina.

Tai:
[www.youtube.com]
Please watch Dr. Rick Dina discuss this topic on youtube. The issue comes down to absorption.

Arugula wrote:
If you want something green, you can eat a wide variety of cheap, local land leaves, some of which are free in many people's backyards.

Tai:
Actually this can sometimes work. The famous John Christoper (most people call him Dr., as he was a naturopath) helped a variety of poor people in Utah. Some people could not afford to buy his herbs and so he would go to their yards (decades ago, when land was more abundant) and look what weeds and wild plants were growing. He would then instruct them on what plants to take for their particular problem. One woman cured her cancer with her wild mint growing in her backyard. Yes, she had to consume large amounts. Plus she had to stick to the diet and do cleansing as instructed. Dr. [sic] Christopher would tell people to eat under their own fig tree, meaning eat the food and herbs locally. Chinese herbalists are trying to grow herbs in California and elsewhere for Americans, so one day this could work. But Dr. C's point was that he was able to heal many people with just American food and herbs. However, western herbs are not specialized in longevity, whereas Chinese medicine is. Chinese medicine is simply older and wiser for many things.

The point is that local and wild herbs and weeds can do much. (Especially ones you grow with love and devotion. I had one basil plant that died in the winter, come back to life in the spring! It was a dead brush and I just hadn't had the time to pull it out. I watched in the spring the brown dead brush turn green and grow leaves. I took a lot of pictures. I hope to post them one day. Not all the stems turned green, but many did.)

If a person is very poor, they can do a lot not spending more than $3/lb for most produce. The only thing I would caution is to not consume leaves and fruits (that will not be peeled) that were directly sprayed with pesticides. This has been shown to be the cause of many problems.

I also will refer to Bruce Lipton here. If a person is really poor and all they have is food money and no supplement money, then they should practice positive thinking. They shouldn't feel fear that they can't afford those things, as fear is unhealthy. They should think positively about what they do have. yes, they should find ways to buy important expensive items very helpful for their problems, but not ruin their health over worry about not having them.

I learned a lesson I will never forget. I was helping a lady who had a worker's comp injury. She was in her 40s but she looked like she was in her 20s or early 30s. She had like 5 kids and was a single mom. She lived in a one bedroom apartment and made minimum wage. Her husband beat her and I think went to jail for some other kind of crime. I will never forget seeing her kids in the waiting room so happy and she was so happy to be with them. They were dirt poor and they were so happy, because they were not worried about what they didn't have. She had amazing hair and was full of vitality. Nothing seemed to upset her. When she talked about her husband beating her, she didn't flinch or go into a stress mode. She stayed peaceful. When she talked about his incarceration, she didn't bat an eyelash. Her mental equilibrium increased her vitality. Granted I had to treat her for months for a serious injury, but other than that, she was healthy and who knows what she ate on mininum wage.

Quote

I also will refer to Bruce Lipton here. If a person is really poor and all they have is food money and no supplement money, then they should practice positive thinking. They shouldn't feel fear that they can't afford those things, as fear is unhealthy. They should think positively about what they do have. yes, they should find ways to buy important expensive items very helpful for their problems, but not ruin their health over worry about not having them.

I learned a lesson I will never forget. I was helping a lady who had a worker's comp injury. She was in her 40s but she looked like she was in her 20s or early 30s. She had like 5 kids and was a single mom. She lived in a one bedroom apartment and made minimum wage. Her husband beat her and I think went to jail for some other kind of crime. I will never forget seeing her kids in the waiting room so happy and she was so happy to be with them. They were dirt poor and they were so happy, because they were not worried about what they didn't have. She had amazing hair and was full of vitality. Nothing seemed to upset her. When she talked about her husband beating her, she didn't flinch or go into a stress mode. She stayed peaceful. When she talked about his incarceration, she didn't bat an eyelash. Her mental equilibrium increased her vitality. Granted I had to treat her for months for a serious injury, but other than that, she was healthy and who knows what she ate on mininum wage.

Spot on! Your mental attitude is so important, and the best diet in the world will be of limited benefit to someone with a very poor attitude. A positive attitude is the best possession you can have.

Great story Tai. We all have the ability to be like that lady and live a blissful life if we choose to.

tezcal Wrote:

> sounds like you're saying that real food is only
> what can be found on a food pyramid chart taken
> from a 1950's nutrition textbook, very cultural
> biased. foods like chia and maca are a little more
> expensive than collard greens, and were consumed
> by cultures which existed and thrived long before
> the united states was created. are they not real
> foods?

I do not understand how you could write such a thing.

I have nothing against Chia except for its absurd
price ($11.99/lb where I live). Get flax instead
(1.99/lb).

If you think paying almost 10x as much will give you
improved health I will of course disagree.

I do not see the point of maca at all. Eat a radish
instead.

If you feel that buying expensive mail order items from
Peru is providing a significant advantage to your health,
I do not wish to deter you. I can only state that the
evidence is lacking and that I strongly suspect you would
be better off with some free dandelion greens.

I do not believe that eating well must cost a lot. If it
costs a lot, something is wrong.

"I can only state that the
evidence is lacking"

You keep saying this, and guess what - you're still wrong. Here are just a tiny fraction of those studies:

Goji

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] - "The present meta-analysis confirmed the various health effects of L. barbarum polysaccharides-standardized L. barbarum intake found in the previous randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled human clinical trials and revealed it resulted in statistically significant improvements in neurological/psychological performance and overall feelings of health and well-being compared with the placebo group under both the fixed and the random effects models of the R program."

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] - "In conclusion, daily consumption of GoChi significantly increased several immunological responses and subjective feelings of general well-being without any adverse reactions."


Reishi

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] - "Results show that Reishi selectively inhibits cancer cell viability although it does not affect the viability of noncancerous mammary epithelial cells. Apoptosis induction is consistent with decreased cell viability. Reishi inhibits cell invasion and disrupts the cell spheroids that are characteristic of the IBC invasive pathology. Reishi decreases the expression of genes involved in cancer cell survival and proliferation (BCL-2, TERT, PDGF, and invasion and metastasis (MMP-9), whereas it increases the expression of IL8. Reishi reduces BCL-2, BCL-XL, E-cadherin, eIF4G, p120-catenin, and c-Myc protein expression and gelatinase activity. These findings suggest that Reishi is an effective anti-IBC therapeutic."

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] - "Our results provide evidence that Reishi suppresses protein synthesis and tumor growth by affecting survival and proliferative signaling pathways that act on translation, suggesting that Reishi is a potential natural therapeutic for breast and other cancers."

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] - "Our results suggest that Ganoderma lucidum inhibits the growth of MDA-MB-231 breast cancer cells by modulating Akt/NF-kappaB signaling and could have potential therapeutic use for the treatment of breast cancer."

Royal Jelly

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] - "These results demonstrate that RJ and its related substances extend lifespan in C. elegans, suggesting that RJ may contain longevity-promoting factors."

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] - "Six-month ingestion of RJ in humans improved erythropoiesis, glucose tolerance and mental health. Acceleration of conversion from DHEA-S to T by RJ may have been observed among these favorable effects."




"I do not believe that eating well must cost a lot. If it
costs a lot, something is wrong."

It's not a must, but expensive foods can still and in many cases are much healthier than common fruits and vegetables. This goes beyond the simple vitamin and mineral paradigm - those are easy to obtain.

Those are garbage papers that you have not actually read. I can read those papers for free but you can't. There are no compelling markers here. Please have the grace and dignity to accept that.

arugula Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Those are garbage papers that you have not
> actually read. I can read those papers for free
> but you can't. There are no compelling markers
> here. Please have the grace and dignity to accept
> that.


So predictable - I'm sure the thousands of published scientific studies on a wide range of super foods are all 'garbage papers'. Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. You're extremely ignorant and close-minded - please have the grace and dignity to accept that so you can work on those major flaws.

You're extremely ignorant and close-minded - please have the grace and dignity to accept that so you can work on those major flaws.

arugula Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Those are garbage papers that you have not
> actually read. I can read those papers for free
> but you can't. There are no compelling markers
> here. Please have the grace and dignity to accept
> that.

a while back, I analyzed many of jtprindl references touting superfoods in which he only read the abstract. I went through the detail of the study and found out they WERE actually garbage.

and the statement

"I'm sure the thousands of published scientific studies on a wide range of super foods are all 'garbage papers"


is essentially a meaningless diversion.

he thinks that since there are "thousands" that there must be at least one that PROVEs that which he wishes to prove, but each is independent.

there's a lot involved, imo. study funding skews data, invalid assumptions, not accounting for/isolating variables, touting a superfood and singling it out (so the study actually does show an effect) but this effect is achievable by many other food sources, or The body itself has the same inherent power, etc etc.

I'll repeat what I posted in the other thread...

For the most part, this is a nice forum but a select group of individuals have the ability to quickly turn this place into a joke. I have no interest in back and forth nonsense - quite frankly never did but still engaged in my fair share. So much dogma, misinformation, close-mindedness, ego, etc. If people want to believe super foods are fake or ineffective or not proven, that you must be low-fat high fruit, etc., so be it. Forgive me but I couldn't care less about the opinions of those who think a 2,000+ year old medicine system which has healed countless individuals from all kinds of disease, is worthless. The longevity, scientific research, and testimonials align with each other and the conclusion is enormous health benefits.

what you cannot understand is that the body is always healing and you cannot separate out the external healing modality and say that is the cause of the healing, since the body is always attempting to heal itself anyway.

>>> If people want to believe super foods are fake or ineffective or not proven, that you must be low-fat high fruit, etc., so be it.

those are the most important 3 words. now abide by it.

"you cannot separate out the external healing modality and say that is the cause of the healing"

If someone has X disease and it is progressively getting worse - and then they begin using 'external healing modalities' - and then start healing - yes, you can. That's not just a random coincidence, especially when results are duplicated with different diseases and different individuals over and over again. This is common sense. Have fun with your current beliefs, though.

arugula Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tezcal Wrote:
>
> > sounds like you're saying that real food is
> only
> > what can be found on a food pyramid chart taken
> > from a 1950's nutrition textbook, very cultural
> > biased. foods like chia and maca are a little
> more
> > expensive than collard greens, and were
> consumed
> > by cultures which existed and thrived long
> before
> > the united states was created. are they not
> real
> > foods?
>
> I do not understand how you could write such a
> thing.
>
> I have nothing against Chia except for its absurd
> price ($11.99/lb where I live). Get flax instead
> (1.99/lb).
>
> If you think paying almost 10x as much will give
> you
> improved health I will of course disagree.
>
> I do not see the point of maca at all. Eat a
> radish
> instead.
>
> If you feel that buying expensive mail order items
> from
> Peru is providing a significant advantage to your
> health,
> I do not wish to deter you. I can only state that
> the
> evidence is lacking and that I strongly suspect
> you would
> be better off with some free dandelion greens.
>
> I do not believe that eating well must cost a lot.
> If it
> costs a lot, something is wrong.


I don't disagree that one can eat well with very little money. But in another thread you mentioned that powdered hemp greens with chlorella and a few other greens are worse than cooked food or something to that effect. Seems a bit harsh. Are there clinical studies to support your claims or is this position you hold mostly about money and marketing aspects of food? Saying superfoods are worse than cooked food is difficult for me to swallow, though I suppose you didn't mention which cooked food.



Another aspect i like to consider is the mystery of our human experience. When I consume algaes I feel amazing in general, I tend to focus more easily and my skin quality seems to improve. I don't get that with say, cooked rice. Should I wait for a long term human study to tell me how to feel, if I'm correct or incorrect?

"Should I wait for a long term human study to tell me how to feel, if I'm correct or incorrect?"

Haha I'm sure some people think like this - I too feel noticeable benefits every time I consume algae's, especially AFA blue-green algae and marine phytoplankton. Royal jelly also has that immediate, noticeable uplifting effect, like my mind snaps into a zone of intense focus and concentration on top of a slight natural "high".

When you combine the longevity of TCM with the scientific literature and countless testimonials from people who have experienced major benefits, how anyone truly believes this all means nothing is beyond me. Some people have too much ego for their own good and/or some type of hidden agenda. It is what it is.

You know you're at a loss for a credible argument when you're rebuttal turns into "I can read those papers for free but you can't", "I have a couple of STEM degrees and enjoy current employment at a respected University. In addition, I have read over several thousand papers. I have sufficient background in statistics, mathematics, biology, chemistry, photobiology, biochemistry, and nutrition", and "I've written some books". All egotistical and irrelevant - an appeal to authority fallacy. Unfortunately, this person is no one's authority, though I'm sure it makes them feel better about themselves by thinking they are.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2015 06:07PM by jtprindl.

sounds like your body was being stimulated by those things.

healthy body requires no stimulation.

and arugula was merely trying to give some context and justification for her/his position on the topic being discussed. of course you need to be negative about everything, so that's what you do.

"sounds like your body was being stimulated by those things."

Not at all - there is no crash. If you did some research on the phytochemicals and compounds in these foods, you would understand.

bga is a neural stimulant. royal jelly is also a stimulant. look it up and spare me your further argumentation and justifications.

you always pay a price. doesn't matter if you think there is no Crash.

there doesn't need to be a "crash", only a decrease in energy that may simply require you to sleep more or whatever.

but certainly you're not hurting anyone and i am not claiming that there is something "wrong" with you taking it.

"bga is a neural stimulant. royal jelly is also a stimulant. look it up and spare me your further argumentation and justifications."

You have no idea what you're talking about and I'll leave it at that. There has been no decrease in energy and no more required sleep and I have been taking 2+ TBS of AFA blue-green algae everyday for more than six consecutive months, and 2+ tsp of royal jelly everyday for about a month and a half.

Hmmm...interesting debate...I wish I understood it.

Hmmm #2 ... I don't trust any official 'clinical studies'. None. I trust some independent researchers who could be capable of, maybe, filtering the good data from the bad from the 'clinical studies', which are, in my opinion ALWAYS paid by liars who own pharmaceutical companies.

So, what I am looking for is NOT anything coming from the official sources. I don't trust them to tell me what time it is. I only rely on independent research, yes on that one that is NOT CONFIRMED BY ANY OFFICIAL INSTITUTION. That is how I live my life.

All I expected from this topic is to tell me the difference of the 'potency' of algae when fresh compared to when I receive them through ebay. Or potency of any other product. What does the content printed on the package mean? When do they measure the ingridients?

Thanks everyone anyway, I know people have good intentions.