how do you make raw hummus silky ( not gritty or drippy)

same with nut butters

most blenders ... you have to add water

i think the professional raw chefs don't add water
or they do something else

anyhow... how do you make it silky

also, in some stores, there are these machines that you can put nuts into
and it will make a nut butter for you on the spot

see.. .it does not require any water

but is there a lot of heat that is created?

how do u make the nut raw without heat and without water ( drippy)

to have it a silky texture


mostly interested for raw hummus

You would need a slow turning Melanger with a tension adjusting mechanism to meet all your requirements.

will have to do some research on this melanger

la_veronique Wrote:
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> will have to do some research on this melanger

Matt Monarch sells a rather inexpensive one which looks like it has tensioning. The big extra bonus about getting a meanger, IMO, is for making bean to bar raw chocolate.

la_veronique Wrote:
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> will have to do some research on this melanger

Matt Monarch sells a rather inexpensive one which looks like it has tensioning. The big extra bonus about getting a melanger, IMO, is you can use it for making bean to bar raw chocolate.

I bought that melanger from Matt Monarch's company.

I like it but I have the following complaints:

1) plastic lid cracked rather quickly. Stainless steel lid is expensive.
2) the capacity to make nut butter is limited to less than 32 oz at a time, and often more like 24 oz. But when all is said and done, the amount seems much less after it is pressed, maybe because bits of it stick to the machine.
3) the plastic lid is open to allow water to evaporate out, and so often food escapes out of the cracks and onto the floor. Again, I have to order a special lid to avoid this. This limits the capacity to make a lot of nut butter. I still have yet to special order the lid(s).
4) I wonder if the stone is safe. I think it's granite. Is that safe? It's from India. The nut butter is very oily so it is pressed against the stones a lot and will absorb things from the stones.

I like it a lot, but I wish it could process more than it does. Maybe I will buy the special lids and report back. I wonder how much electricity it takes to make one jar of butter (it has to run for hours, depending on how creamy you want it and how hard the seed/nut is).

tai

so is it the same consistency as the nut butter at the stores
without adding water?

and i guess it rotates pretty slowly right? so that there is not too much heat?

and does it make raw garbanzo beans become silky hummus

thanks for the review very helpful

i imagine that even with stone
you need to figure out what else is on that stone
any glazing of any type needs to be researched

or any other thing added to the so called stone to make it more sturdier or whateer..

though i hear that ceramic stuff cracks quite easily ..

but maybe that is the contrast of heat and cold
but if you do all raw
maybe you won't have that constrast

unless you are putting it under hot water to clean
then somehwere cold

i don't know.. just guessing..

LaV wrote:
so is it the same consistency as the nut butter at the stores
without adding water?

Tai:
Yes

LaV wrote:
and i guess it rotates pretty slowly right? so that there is not too much heat?

Tai:
Slow in comparison to a twin gear juicer and vitamix.
The motor gets hot, so I turn it off several times during the duration of making a single batch. I let it cool down a bit before turning it back on. The seed butter does not cook, but it is warm enough to be in a liquid state. For example, when making coconut cream, it is a liquid, but after it's cooled down, it will turn solid.

LaV wrote:
and does it make raw garbanzo beans become silky hummus

Tai:
Yes, but don't quote me on that entirely, because I add things to the mix like parsley and chopped pepper, so I don't exactly go for pure creamy hummus. I would have to experiment just with the beans to tell you exactly. By the way, the vitamix makes a perfectly creamy hummus. Sprouted beans are very easy for the vitamix. The reason for the melanger is tougher seeds and butter without water. The key to making a creamy hummus with the vitamix is first use the food processor to cut the beans as much as possible. THis will reduce the need for liquid in the vitamix.

I am sure the stone is okay. I mean this is what the primitive people used anyway. I just wished I knew more about it.

The other thing is that it is rather heavy, so it takes up a relatively permanent place on your counter top. It is easy enough for a woman to move it, but not so light that you will move it up and down out of a cupboard on a regular basis. It is big!. Measure your counterspace first and compare dimensions.

I used to use a custom made stone mill to do my seeds. It was very hard work and tricky to clean.

Buying a really good juicer with all the nut butter attachments is a very important thing for raw fooders. Spending a decent sum on quality kitchen equipment is really important - a good blender and excellent juicer with mill attachments is highly recommended, especially if one goes to all the trouble of growing their own food.

If one can't afford to get these things the only other way is to save up over a long period of time because it IS worth it.

www.thesproutarian.com

This is the malanger I am thinking about getting ...

[www.cocoatown.com]

It is made by the same company that made the stone wet grinder I have. I can't use the stone grinder I have for nut butters and chocolate because it lacks the motor ventilation that would allow it to run for longer than a half hour, is closed while running so it doesn't allow for moisture to evaporate from the butters or chocolate, and it doesn't have the necessary tensioning feature. Otherwise they appear to be identical. I really like the conical granite style grinders and will stick with them.

If you want to use any of these inexpensive machines (while continuing to stay on a raw vegan diet) you are going to have to keep at least one fan on them while they are running and monitor your ingredient's temperature. There are melangers that have adjustable speeds but they are much more expensive.

This is the wet grinder I have. I would highly recommend it for wet grinding things like beans and rice as they will become as silky as is possible within the 30 minutes the machine was designed to run and won't heat up. This is their model of the machine that was designed specifically for such things so the lid completely closes once you've added the ingredients and no ingredients have ever splashed out. It is easy to clean. There are also smaller models.

[www.innoconcept.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2015 03:32PM by SueZ.

Hi SueZ, that cocoa melanger seems roughly the same size as the one I have from Matt's company. I still don't see how you could actually make 8 pints of anything with an open lid, where things fly out as the wheels turn (as the website says). The capacity is there. Ask about nut butters and compare the two. Matt said about 24 ounce and that is accurate even though the machine is huge. I just made a sprouted mung bean hummus in it last night and I have to say the vitamix does a creamier job. However, the vitamix can NOT mash up hard oily seeds as good as the melanger. When I made the hummus with a high water content, then yes, I could increase the amount to like two quarts and nothing flew out. It just happens to the nuts and seeds as they are being crushed.

Tai Wrote:
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> Hi SueZ, that cocoa melanger seems roughly the
> same size as the one I have from Matt's company.
> I still don't see how you could actually make 8
> pints of anything with an open lid, where things
> fly out as the wheels turn (as the website says).
> The capacity is there. Ask about nut butters and
> compare the two. Matt said about 24 ounce and that
> is accurate even though the machine is huge. I
> just made a sprouted mung bean hummus in it last
> night and I have to say the vitamix does a
> creamier job. However, the vitamix can NOT mash
> up hard oily seeds as good as the melanger. When
> I made the hummus with a high water content, then
> yes, I could increase the amount to like two
> quarts and nothing flew out. It just happens to
> the nuts and seeds as they are being crushed.

Tai, I don't think you would want to make over a quart of anything that takes over an hour or so to grind if you intend, as Matt does, to have the product remain raw vegan. If you don't mind the temperature going up 8 pints is not an unreasonable capacity claim, IMO, as I used to do that all the time.


Could it be you not be pre-grinding your nuts and other 'fly aways' finely enough? My first thought, though, was that you are probably feeding the ingredients in too quickly. In my experience it is best to start feeding very slowly, in a trickle, and then once the granite base has been covered evenly with smooth pulp to slowly increase the stream of ingredients. Once a certain point in the process is crossed it is safe to gradually increase the flow.

If you go very slowly and pay close attention you will quickly learn when it's ok to increase the flow, and by how much, by sound, as I did. If you do this I am confident the results will be smoother and better tasting than can be had from out of the Vitamix.

As to the mess caused in the processing if you watch several youtube videos of the different brands of stone grinders it's pretty easy to see, IMO, that the conically shaped stones don't spit liquid stuff out of the bowl like the flat stones do.

I hadn't heard of a melanger before. Why not use a Champion juicer with the blank attachment?

Utopian Life Wrote:
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Why not use
> a Champion juicer with the blank attachment?

That is what you can use to pre-grind. This is a thread about taking texture to the next level - silky smoothness. It's a culinary arts thing.

hahahahahahahah

Tai:

<<Slow in comparison to a twin gear juicer and vitamix.
The motor gets hot, so I turn it off several times during the duration of making a single batch. I let it cool down a bit before turning it back on. The seed butter does not cook, but it is warm enough to be in a liquid state. For example, when making coconut cream, it is a liquid, but after it's cooled down, it will turn solid.>>


LaV:

So this part is where i kind of get confused. it seems like if it can make cacao beans to a chocolate liquor, that some amount of heat must have been involved in the process. So, when i saw the youtube video ( bean to bar), it was unclear whether or not unintentional heat was being put in from the grinding process. Also, I have a twin gear and it does not generate any heat at all. if this melanger is slower than a twin gear, why should it generate any heat? I am just confused. It does not seem to be advertised specifically as a "raw" friendly product. i am wondering what research has been done to prove it is not just another product that heats up things to give it that smooth consistency. I am still a bit confused though it does look rather promising if it didn't heat up the product. Any temperature testing with thermometer?

suez

<<This is the wet grinder I have. I would highly recommend it for wet grinding things like beans and rice as they will become as silky as is possible within the 30 minutes the machine was designed to run and won't heat up. This is their model of the machine that was designed specifically for such things so the lid completely closes once you've added the ingredients and no ingredients have ever splashed out. It is easy to clean. There are also smaller models. >>

how do u know this wetgrinder does not produce heat
is it because your product is still room temperature

also if your wetgrinder does not produce heat and makes things silky then ... why get a melanger in adddition to this?

LaV:

There are two parts to the melanger: the stone wheel and container (one part) and the motor (the second part). The motor gets hot. I have gotten used to unplugging the power from my Mac laptop because sometimes the battery breaks from too much heat and they are expensive to replace. So, maybe it's my supstition to turn off the motor periodically and not let it run continuously.

So far, the nut butter has never gotten hot. THe most heat is simply to make the coconut cream melt and that is not even warm to the touch! I have never felt warmth in the nut butter. WHy don't I experiment today and make a batch for hours continuously and I will report back. I will find a thermometer.

la_veronique Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> suez
>
> <>
>
> how do u know this wetgrinder does not produce
> heat
> is it because your product is still room
> temperature


Yes.



> also if your wetgrinder does not produce heat and
> makes things silky then ... why get a melanger in
> adddition to this?


!. The machine I have's motor is not ventilated for use > 1/2 hour.

2. It does not have adjustable tension which is necessary for making
chocolate.

3. The machine I have has a closed in top. Chocolate needs ventilation.


You asked (not of me) "So this part is where i kind of get confused. it seems like if it can make cacao beans to a chocolate liquor, that some amount of heat must have been involved in the process."


It's from the shear force. The upper and lower stones do not actually ever touch each other.

I just found some very interesting information in this Shazzie interview of Amy Levin on chocolate making.

This startled me. At the 32 minute point, while talking about techniques for chocolate making, Amy said "I found food processors more effective for making nut butters."

[shazzie.com]

From what I'm finding it takes about 15 minutes to make raw almond butter in a food processor. Apparently heating the nuts in a dehydrator at 115F first helps. Makes sense but I imagine you'd better have a pretty darn high power food processor to not burn it out if you make nut butters on a regular basis that way.

I'm just posting this info for the benefit of others. I'm not a fan of nut butters. I find them sticky and hard to digest. I prefer raw vegan marzipan, in every way, to nut butters.

Tai:

There are two parts to the melanger: the stone wheel and container (one part) and the motor (the second part). The motor gets hot. I have gotten used to unplugging the power from my Mac laptop because sometimes the battery breaks from too much heat and they are expensive to replace. So, maybe it's my supstition to turn off the motor periodically and not let it run continuously.

So far, the nut butter has never gotten hot. THe most heat is simply to make the coconut cream melt and that is not even warm to the touch! I have never felt warmth in the nut butter. WHy don't I experiment today and make a batch for hours continuously and I will report back. I will find a thermometer.


LaV:

Alright. thanks for letting me know and i hope you have fun with the research.

But what did you mean by the heat to make the coconut cream melt. If you grind coconut in a twin gear.. .isn't it already "melty" or was it just kind of granules that became melted. So, there is "some" heat? But not much? i guess the thermometer might give more clue... thanks

LaV wrote:
But what did you mean by the heat to make the coconut cream melt. If you grind coconut in a twin gear.. .isn't it already "melty" or wa

Tai:
I put dried shredded coconut into the machine. eventually it turns into coconut butter and it is liquid. If you let it sit overnight, as I once did, it turns solid. When it is liquid, it is not hot or even warm. Just the friction of the wheels keeps it liquid

Tai

okay makes sense
just like putting any veggie in a twin gear will make it liquidy as well
thansk for explaining