I think it's a nice diet, actually. Personally I would go for more greens, a huge head of lettuce, a few handfuls of spinach or chard, a few handfuls of turnip greens or some other crucifer.

It's hard to get precise info for the sprouts when their nutrient content depends on the length.

The biggest differences I see between your diet and the typically CR diets are that they tend to eat a lot more greens, they tend to eat beans, they tend towards less fruit, and they tend towards less fat. Some of them also do cooked sweet potato or winter squash. The ones who are not vegan might include fish, scallops, and other sea creatures. They take in more protein, too, which I prefer not to do.

Low protein is probably better than high from age 20-65. After that our bodies are not so good at extracting the amino acids so we do a bit better if we increase our protein intakes. Ref is a beautiful newish paper by Levine et al in Cell Metabolism 19, 407–417, March 4, 2014

Arugula wrote:
But don't forget that there are limits to what you can take in with the goosefoot and crucifer family.
...
I don't think we lose anything but consuming modest quantities of lightly steamed greens. I think we gain!

Tai:
Do you mean in general for both raw and cooked goosefoot and crucifer veggies, or just raw only? And then there is sauerkraut for the cruciferous veggies.

You mentioned steamed. THat is sometimes confusing to me, because a study showed that boiling spinach for one minute in water greatly reduced the oxalic acid and the suggestion was to throw away the water. The inference was that the same would be true for chard. But then other people, like Normal Walker, assert that it's okay as long as it's raw. What do you think?

[www.whfoods.com]
I remember reading this paper, but I can't find it now while googling (it was listed on that website):
Makiko I, Mutsuko T, and Takashi N. Influence of the Amount of Boiling Water on the Sensory Evaluation, Oxalic Acid and Potassium Content of Boiled Spinach. Journal of Cookery Science of Japan 2005, 38(4):343-349. 2005.

"Personally I would go for more greens, a huge head of lettuce, a few handfuls of spinach or chard, a few handfuls of turnip greens or some other crucifer."

When I do salads, I like to make red bell peppers the base - they seem like an overall healthier choice. I definitely acknowledge the importance of incorporating a wide range of foods, but red bell peppers seem to be more nutritious on every level than lettuce is, including phytochemicals. I could be missing something, though. I also incorporate broccoli sprouts in both salads and juices, and broccoli sprouts have more phytochemicals than mature broccoli. Plus, I juice other greens.

"The biggest differences I see between your diet and the typically CR diets are that they tend to eat a lot more greens, they tend to eat beans, they tend towards less fruit, and they tend towards less fat. Some of them also do cooked sweet potato or winter squash."

Do they juice greens, though? Also, I see that they do not consume algae's. Algae's are fantastic source of chlorophyll, nucleic acids, phytochemicals (such as phycocyanin), highly bioavailable amino acids, and certain vitamins/minerals.

Tai,

You mentioned steamed. THat is sometimes confusing to me, because a study showed that boiling spinach for one minute in water greatly reduced the oxalic acid and the suggestion was to throw away the water. The inference was that the same would be true for chard. But then other people, like Normal Walker, assert that it's okay as long as it's raw. What do you think?

I generally prefer not to boil, but it might be preferable in this case to throw out the water. It looks from the paper (which is in Japanese! but has English for the graphs and tables) that you can eat about twice as much cooked as raw without incident.

I personally don't want to risk more than a cup of goosefoots raw in one sitting. But I can eat two or more (measured from raw state) when they are cooked.

As to what Walker says, maybe he never tried to eat as much of it as I once did! I don't think it's ok just because it's raw. Although a lot of my diet contains foods that have natural toxins, I try to limit their quantities.

Also I am not a purist and don't mind eating cooked plants as a part of my diet. I still insist on huge salads, lots of fruit, and unprocessed fats, though.

"I still insist on huge salads"

Any delicious homemade dressings you're willing to share?

Lately my dressing is homemade hummus with red wine vinegar. A little bit of homemade tahini with lemon juice is nice, too. Sometimes I use lime.

I put walnuts in my salad. Sometimes almonds, and sometimes mashed avocado.

One future plan is to use blended olives but I haven't figured out yet which ones most closely mimic the taste of real, unadulterated olive oil.

I tend not to like sweet dressings as much.

There are a couple of reasons to use lettuces. They are mild so you can eat pounds of them without incident (romaine is my favorite). They offer folate and a different spectrum of phenolics and flavonoids compared to the fruits in your diet. They also tend to be more potent cancer fighters than nonsweet fruits.

But romaine is not otherwise more nutritious than a red bell pepper, calorie for calorie--it does not offer more minerals, protein, or even fiber than red bell pepper.

I am addicted, though. I have to have my huge salads, with sprouts, tomatoes, cucumbers, peppers, cherry or grape tomatoes, arugula--the more the better. They are a highlight of my life! I can never get a salad in a restaurant as good as the ones I make. I also use alliums. Some people here don't use them but I love them.

Arugula recipe off the top of your head?

I like tahini too. I never use it though, I make my own. I just get sesame seeds and make that into dressing with water herbs lemon peeled pink salt and some raisins.

Occasionally I like to buy these and use them in salads, they're amazing - [www.rawpower.com]

"I also use alliums. Some people here don't use them but I love them."

Same here, well, mainly garlic. I usually use 3-4 cloves of garlic in my salad dressing with the skin left on.

What are your main sources of omega-3's?

What I put in my salads:

A head of romaine. Wash it, dry it off with a towel, and when it is dry, rip it into little pieces with your hands. The dressing will stick better that way and it tastes much better, too.

Two handfuls of spicy radish sprouts.

Two handfuls of arugula. I like the long, dark, bitter leaves. The baby ones don't have as much of a nutty flavor.

A handful of spinach, chopped.

A handful of Italian parsley.

A sliced red onion.

A container of cherry or grape tomatoes.

Sliced red, yellow, and green bell peppers. I like the green ones the best.

A sliced cucumber.

A large carrot, julienned with a julienne peeler. I got one from the Asian store for $1. I use it more than my food processor or saladacco.

A handful of walnuts.

Sometimes, sliced radishes.

Sometimes, garlic.

Sometimes, olive or avocado.

Sometimes baby spring mix or radicchio.

Sometimes some yellow squash or zucchini.

My only sweets in my salads are tomato and red or yellow bell pepper.

I think I'm going to start using more dried herbs in my salads, I already use ground turmeric extract powder (95% curcumin), but dried oregano and rosemary are also very high on the "official" ORAC scale.

[oracvalues.com]

arugula Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What I put in my salads:
>
> A head of romaine. Wash it, dry it off with a
> towel, and when it is dry, rip it into little
> pieces with your hands. The dressing will stick
> better that way and it tastes much better, too.
>
> Two handfuls of spicy radish sprouts.
>
> Two handfuls of arugula. I like the long, dark,
> bitter leaves. The baby ones don't have as much of
> a nutty flavor.
>
> A handful of spinach, chopped.
>
> A handful of Italian parsley.
>
> A sliced red onion.
>
> A container of cherry or grape tomatoes.
>
> Sliced red, yellow, and green bell peppers. I like
> the green ones the best.
>
> A sliced cucumber.
>
> A large carrot, julienned with a julienne peeler.
> I got one from the Asian store for $1. I use it
> more than my food processor or saladacco.
>
> A handful of walnuts.
>
> Sometimes, sliced radishes.
>
> Sometimes, garlic.
>
> Sometimes, olive or avocado.
>
> Sometimes baby spring mix or radicchio.
>
> Sometimes some yellow squash or zucchini.
>
> My only sweets in my salads are tomato and red or
> yellow bell pepper.

Are not there too many items for a meal?
You must have excellent digestion
The mono eaters and natural hygiene folks could not comprehend this.
I would limit mine to 5 items

RP,

It's mostly water, I am fine with it. But I have been eating like this for 10 years now. It might be a shock to the uninitiated.

Even when I was young, I had a huge Greek salad every other day. In those days I used feta and not as many different vegetables but a lot of the components have remain unchanged. Basically I was raised on Greek salads. We had other foods for main dishes but every day we had our salad. At night when we watched tv together my dad would bring a bowl of fruit and nuts, and he would cut up the fruit and crack the nuts and feed us. My parents did not even realize it but they were a lot more raw than anybody else's parents.

These days, I find myself doing the same things with my dogs.

Jtprindl,

My o63 ratio is usually somewhere between 2:1 and 4:1 without flax or chia because of the large amount of f+v I use. I used to put ground flax in my fruit salads but I didn't like the taste and I saw what I had without the flax was good enough so I stopped.

Optimal is probably 1.3:1 but I am pretty close to that.

Yes I understand, I know you always have the right approach.
We cannot go wrong with mixing high water content veggies.

"Jtprindl,

My o6yawning smiley3 ratio is usually somewhere between 2:1 and 4:1 without flax or chia because of the large amount of f+v I use. I used to put ground flax in my fruit salads but I didn't like the taste and I saw what I had without the flax was good enough so I stopped."

Understood.

Anyways, I was curious if my sample diet helped you more understand my perspective when I reference certain details in regards to high-fat raw diets and cardiovascular disease? Lots of fiber, phytochemicals, vitamins, minerals with a healthy O3:O6 ratio. Also, the high amounts of ALA combined with the nearly 1:1 ratio combine to set forth favorable conditions for nice EPA/DHA conversion rates. Also, what is your opinion on algae's and their phytochemical/nucleic acid content?

TSM, I think the reason why Nori has B12 is that there are little tiny shrimp in it.

[www.jeffnovick.com]

arugula Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TSM, I think the reason why Nori has B12 is that
> there are little tiny shrimp in it.
>
> [www.jeffnovick.com]
> /4/12_Some_Sense_About_Seaweed!.html


Hahaha so the joke's on me. All that nori I've taken probably didn't up my B12 because I used clean wild nori and not big Ag shrimp/nori mish mash sheets.

arugula Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TSM, I think the reason why Nori has B12 is that
> there are little tiny shrimp in it.
>
> [www.jeffnovick.com]
> /4/12_Some_Sense_About_Seaweed!.html


Oh no. I will have to check this out some more, + l will take a heap and test it with my pineal gland and see what happens.


SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
>
> Hahaha so the joke's on me. All that nori I've
> taken probably didn't up my B12 because I used
> clean wild nori and not big Ag shrimp/nori mish
> mash sheets.

where do you get your seaweed from again?

I am a little confused about something.

jtprindl, did you say above that you got 30g+ of omega 3 and and 30+g of omega 6?

is that right?

seems high



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2015 04:28PM by fresh.

I thought that was a typo with the decimal place in the wrong spot.

"jtprindl, did you say above that you got 30g+ of omega 3 and and 30+g of omega 6?

is that right?"

Yup.


"seems high"

Based on what convincing evidence?

10 T. of unsprouted flax has 23 grams of omega 3 by itself so I doubt the total was a typo.

I am not saying there is anything bad about it, just seemed high based on some recommendations. the flax explains it. negative omega 3 aspects seem to be based on fish intake.

EU hasn't set a tolerable upper intake level for alpha linolenic acid. The reason why is that they are not sure.

I would not take more than 5 g per day myself.

When the intake of these delicate fatty acids is very high there is more potential for lipid peroxidation.

We don't want intakes too low but neither should they be too high IMO.


I don't know of any populations whose intakes of this particular fatty acid habitually exceed the best guess for requirements by this wide of a margin.

I think it would be safer to limit ALA until there are some convincing studies showing that it is safe.

Some interesting studies:


[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

-Mild to moderate hypercholesterolemic Native American postmenopausal women who consumed flaxseed (30 g/day) for three months exhibited a reduction of TC (Total Cholesterol) by 7% and LDL cholesterol by 10% without changes in HDL cholesterol or TG concentrations.

-Dietary flaxseed (40 g/day) has effects that are similar to hormone replacement therapy for decreasing menopausal symptoms.

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

-Instructed subjects to add 30 g/day of flax seed to their habitual diet and found significant reductions in blood pressure at rest and during a mental stress task.

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] - "Doses of ALA less than 14 g/d do not affect inflammatory mediators/markers, but 14 g/d or greater reduce inflammatory mediators/markers."

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] - "A number of studies suggested that n-3 fatty acid could reduce lipid peroxidation and elevate or ?-tocopherol contents in membrane of erythrocytes... The flaxseed oil supplementation may prevent lipid peroxidation and membrane dysfunction of human erythrocytes in hyperglycemia."

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] - "CONCLUSIONS:
Increased lipid peroxidation and deficient antioxidant system are observed in high-fructose-fed rats. LA administration preserves the antioxidant system and lowers lipid peroxidation."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2015 06:30PM by jtprindl.

You are taking in more than 4x that much every day. These were short term studies.

Have you considered the membrane theory of aging?

The membrane theory of aging proposes that life span is inversely related to
the level of unsaturation, and in particular the level of n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids, in membrane phospholipids. Some researchers think that a decrease in long-chain polyunsaturated fatty acids in mitochondrial membrane phospholipids may be a mechanism contributing to a diet's potential for anti-aging.

Check this out.
[www.crsociety.org]

You need enough. Way more is not necessarily better in the long run.

Granted, high doses of ALA are probably safer than high doses of DHA but I would avoid excess in either.

"You are taking in more than 4x that much every day."

I do not take in as much flax (or omega-3's/fat in general) as I listed in the sample diet everyday. Some days it's 20+ grams of ALA, other days it's less than 5 grams.

"Granted, high doses of ALA are probably safer than high doses of DHA but I would avoid excess in either."

That's the thing - what is excess? Perhaps high doses could have even more benefits or more therapeutic effects than smaller doses.

The difference between a poison and a cure is the dose.

5 g ALA and 12 g LA are a prudent dose. Remember you are getting as much as you need from your f+v, and taking flax is only adding to these quantities.

Please read the link I posted. I think it is a high quality summary of the problem. I wish that I had written something like it myself.
.

"Remember you are getting as much as you need from your f+v"

Maybe enough ALA from fruits and vegetables but not enough to convert into adequate EPA/DHA.

I did read your link, but wasn't the main point to get your omega-3's from ALA rather than EPA/DHA directly? Also, the study used in that article was done on soybean oil, fish oil, and lard, not plant-sources of ALA. The main aging effects he's referring to are from EPA and DHA, but specifically DHA.

It's also a caution about excessive PUFA in general. You may not be taking in nearly as much as you posted. It depends on the length of the sprout.

arugula Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's also a caution about excessive PUFA in
> general. You may not be taking in nearly as much
> as you posted. It depends on the length of the
> sprout.


For my sunflower sprouts, a few mm. I soak for 5-6 hours and then sprout for 18-24 hours and then eat. I wonder if it all depends on the length of the sprout or if simply soaking and dehydrating would also have an impact.