Recently posted on March 2,2015

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What do you guys think?

Regardless of your personal opinions
on what a raw diet should look like, he is a major contributor
to bringing people to raw foods.

I believe this is harmful in bringing new people in to veganism
in general and will deter people away from trying raw foods.
They do kind of make cooked food sound superior here..

If you are interested, a short vid showing some interesting
proven benefits to raw food:

Click Here

I don't think it's a setback, I think people should be aware of many of the "not-so-good" things Doug Graham has done in the past. He was never a doctor, he was a chiropractor who got his license revoked. His never gives any warnings about how his 80/10/10 diet may be dangerous to some people. People have almost died at his fasting retreats and then he lied about the actual state of events about that situation. Doug Graham is a setback to the raw food movement. How can that be, he promotes a 100% raw food diet? Because people are going to do research on him and are going to realize that he has a very dishonest and irresponsible past.

Regardless of how he is as a person, I personally
feel that arguing amongst vegan "leaders" makes
all of them look less credible to outsiders.

This is exactly the kind of behavior the meat and
dairy industries take advantage of.

People who are new/not familiar with these concepts
can easily be turned off of the lifestyle by such
behavior.

I feel the real arguments should be being fought
against diets heavy in animal products and
processed foods.

Most people who are well in to this lifestyle
already know all about Graham. He's been called
out on it many a time. VegSource has a lot of
influence online and I don't feel this is
necessarily conductive to the big picture..

I'd rather the focus be on eating plants than
arguing about who's wrong and who's right.
My personal opinion.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2015 06:34AM by Exeggutor.

I don't have a problem with Doug, I'm sure he's helped lots of people transition to a raw food diet and had success at his fasting retreats. I just wish he was a little more responsible. I shouldn't have said he was a setback but some of his past behavior could definitely lead people away from raw foods.

I do agree with your statement there ^

That video is pure propaganda. I trust LESS people who have access to big media. They are all corrupted. I am totally on Doug's side. Chiropractors are LESS corrupted than doctors. Period. Absolutely.

Doug's book and his work helped me a lot. Nothing can change that. He could be a not completely honest person...so what? He can have issues...so what? Don't we all? The good work he has done cannot be diminished. I think he is a very important person. The 80/10/10 diet is extremely important, it opened my eyes to the simple fact that there is nothing wrong with carbohydrates, it is just the refined ones that are bad for us. This is extremely important, to everyone. It is so much easier to transition to raw vegan if you rely on fruit, especially tropical and subtropical fruit.

One thing I am a specialist for: media manipulation. I am a journalist by education and by vocation, but I became, after decades of research, very good in understanding motives behind the published information. This video is absolute rubbish. It is pure propaganda with an intent to attack and destroy. I did not even watch the whole thing, I am not interested. There are thosudands of videos like this, attacking everybody and everything the establishment does not like. Ugly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2015 06:07PM by rab.

jeff is right to some extent, but is sort of making a big deal out of not much.

when doug said that they supported 801010 he wasn't really saying they supported HIS diet, just the macro ratio, and that they did it cooked and he would prefer not to cook, although his book says you can do 801010 and cook too.

if doug was the one who put the picture of his book below colin campbell in his own video, then that is wrong.

doug did say that he had "known colin for 20 years" which typically implies that the person knows you back, but strictly speaking knowing someone does not mean that.

for sure, doug displayed very poor behavior over the years in many ways, and especially during his fasting retreats

this is driven by ego and money, as usual.

I don't really like the tone of the video. Sounds like a guy looking for revenge over something. Were they colleagues?

I'm not so sure a McDougall or Campbell diet is healthier than 811rv, it is more accessible though and I'm sure people would live a long life with any of these diets.

Also, who is really responsible for creating any diet? There's only so many ways to promote a way of eating. There's bound to be multiple authors saying similar things. Being a promoter and creator are different things and I always saw Doug as the former.

I think the video would have been more productive if it had focused more on the differences between the two 80-10-10 diets. Besides the lack of evidence for raw, why are the differences important enough to complain about? It was never discussed.

I also think that, to be fair, it should have been acknowledged that Doug Graham has said many times he did not invent 80-10-10. All he's ever claimed was that he was the first to apply the ratio to a raw food diet, and this claim is true (as far as I know).

It was probably important that the video clarified that Colin Campbell doesn't endorse Doug Graham's version of 80-10-10, especially since Graham uses quotes from Campbell's book The China Study as evidence that Graham's version is accepted science. This did need to be clarified, IMO.

But there was nothing in the video that addressed important differences between the two 80-10-10s.

So what are the differences? Why endorse one and not the other? I'll attempt to answer my own question (thank you very much ): There's a huge difference in the micronutrient content of the two diets, because a person can eat much more grains/legumes (cooked) than seeds/nuts (raw) and still stay at 10% or less fats.

Personally, I couldn't thrive on either diet. I don't do well on cooked starch, and I also don't do well on a diet that severely restricts raw nuts, seeds, and other whole foods that contain healthy fats (This is a common feature of both diets).

So does this video mean that raw food in general will take a huge hit? No. I'm raw. No effect at all. Doug Graham has been a superstar. But most people don't really require a leader for moving on with their lives and making their own choices (hopefully).

not sure about the micronutrients. seems like the veg content would provide plenty vs cooked .


if you feel a need to eat higher fat foods everyday, then yes you will be over 10%

but it's not restricting in the sense that if you eat fatty foods every other day or every third day you will swing between 5 and 20% fat for example, giving around 10% on average.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2015 11:25PM by fresh.

I agree with Fresh that the video was a bit too harsh on Graham. YET, I can understand why Jeff is piqued. I used to think Vegsource was totally tied to Doug. It was my mistake, but I never perused Vegsource because everytime I would read strange comments from Doug on the forum, I would tune out. I equated the strangeness from 811rv forum to ALL of vegsource, quite honestly. Again it was my mistake, but I thought there was a strong connection. So, I can understand Jeff trying to distance himself. Yes, emotion and innaccuracies are involved here, but Doug is not innocent in getting Jeff's feathers ruffled. It wasn't until Jeff took away Doug's privilege that I actually perused Vegsource in full for the first time.

Doug's response:

FoodnSport
4 hours ago

+Linda Blossom I first met Dr. Campbell at an ANHS conference somewhere around 1993, when he was a guest lecturer at their annual conference.We spoke several times. The next time he and spoke face to face was in Seattle, WA, at the Taste of Health conference where we were both guest speakers, around 1999 or so, I believe.Since that time, I’ve spoken to Dr. Campbell in person or on telephone a few more times: once when my father was ill, once when I was doing the science edit on the Forks Over Knives documentary, once to congratulate him on the release of Whole, and here and there at least a few other times, such as when he was fasting with my dear friend Howard Lyman under Dr. Goldhamer’s supervision.Our paths have crossed many times. - Dr. Douglas Graham

that is very strange that tcc said he didn't know him, yet ...the above

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> not sure about the micronutrients. seems like the
> veg content would provide plenty vs cooked .

-True. Mainly, my point there was that the micronutrients would be different, with more of some, less of others regarding both versions of 80-10-10. The difference would be enough that the diets - though similar in many ways - are not the same.

> if you feel a need to eat higher fat foods
> everyday, then yes you will be over 10%
>
> but it's not restricting in the sense that if you
> eat fatty foods every other day or every third day
> you will swing between 5 and 20% fat for example,
> giving around 10% on average.

I guess "restricting" might have different meanings to different people. If you don't think averaging 10% fat is restricting, then that's OK (Hah, sweet fresh! You can have it. Not me!). For me, that level of low fat would take tremendous control that I just wouldn't find the necessity for. I do exert an effort to be "moderate" in fat intake ("moderate" from my own understanding of the word, like to the point that I feel best).

At 5'1" and 85 pounds, I'm far from hefty

People are just different, and that's OK.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2015 01:26AM by suncloud.

Exeggutor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> he is a major contributor
> to bringing people to raw foods.


But have most of those people been able to stay in raw foods on his dietary ideas, I don't think they have, and various people he brought into raw foods have had health issues. Not good! Responsible teaching is the key, not teaching raw food 101 like we are robots, that's a great way to fail as a raw food leader.


fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jeff is right to some extent, but is sort of
> making a big deal out of not much.


True, wasn't really worth ten minutes of my time. Some good points but nothing really important.


fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> that is very strange that tcc said he didn't know
> him, yet ...the above


Maybe Colin Campbell has forgotten, but maybe Doug is confusing him with someone else LOL.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2015 01:37AM by The Sproutarian Man.

Thanks Tai for the quote from Doug Graham.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> that is very strange that tcc said he didn't know
> him, yet ...the above

Maybe Dr. Campbell just doesn't remember Doug Graham(?).

The part I really don't get from Doug Graham's response is, what did he mean that he "was doing the science edit on the Forks Over Knives documentary"?

The way that was written - "the science edit" - sounds like he was doing this at the request of the project's authors. I find that highly doubtful, since Doug Graham doesn't have a relevant credential, while Dr. Campbell's extensive background in research would lead one to believe there would be no shortage of highly qualified candidates for editing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2015 01:42AM by suncloud.

suncloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fresh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > not sure about the micronutrients. seems like
> the
> > veg content would provide plenty vs cooked .
>
> -True. Mainly, my point there was that the
> micronutrients would be different, with more of
> some, less of others regarding both versions of
> 80-10-10. The difference would be enough that the
> diets - though similar in many ways - are not the
> same.
>
> > if you feel a need to eat higher fat foods
> > everyday, then yes you will be over 10%
> >
> > but it's not restricting in the sense that if
> you
> > eat fatty foods every other day or every third
> day
> > you will swing between 5 and 20% fat for
> example,
> > giving around 10% on average.
>
> I guess "restricting" might have different
> meanings to different people. If you don't think
> averaging 10% fat is restricting, then that's OK
> (Hah, sweet fresh! You can have it. Not me!). For
> me, that level of low fat would take tremendous
> control that I just wouldn't find the necessity
> for. I do exert an effort to be "moderate" in fat
> intake ("moderate" from my own understanding of
> the word, like to the point that I feel best).
>
> At 5'1" and 85 pounds, I'm far from hefty
>
> People are just different, and that's OK.


so what do you consider your higher fat foods?
and do you eat some every day?

Jeff was a little harsh on Doug and he has done himself no favours by sticking the knife into Doug like that. Jeff engaged in play ground behaviour....reeks of childishness. Never mind, we all can act dumb sometimes.

Getting the news on the fasting retreat stuff was real news, but this babbling in the video is just inanity. Jeff seems a little angry, maybe because he was taken for a fool by Doug's lies. It's past now and Doug has left that site, but lets just hope he pulls his pants up and learns from his past mistakes, but somehow l doubt he will.