The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is there any credible peer reviewed science
> supporting gall bladder stone flushes? Some claim
> to pass large stones, but l don't see how that is
> possible.


Of course not, TSM. There are no credible published peer reviewed studies on this hocus pocus hoax.

TSM wrote:

<<<Is there any credible peer reviewed science supporting gall bladder stone flushes?>>>

“The idea that all scientific experiments are replicated to keep the process honest is also something of a myth. In reality, the number of findings from one scientist that get checked by others is quite small. Most scientists are too busy, research funds are too limited, and the pressure to produce new work is too great for this type of review to occur very often. What occurs instead is a system of “peer review,” in which panels of experts are convened to pass judgment on the work of other researchers. Peer review is used mainly in two situations: during the grant approval process to decide which research should get funding, and after the research has been completed to determine whether the results should be accepted for publication in a scientific journal.

Like the myth of the scientific method, peer review is also a fairly new phenomenon. ...As government support for science increased, it became necessary to develop a formal system for deciding which projects should receive funding.

In some ways, the system of peer review functions like the antithesis of the scientific method described above. Whereas the scientific method assumes that “experiment is supreme” and purports to eliminate bias, peer review deliberately imposes the bias of peer reviewers on the scientific process, both before and after experiments are conducted. ...peer review can also institutionalize conflicts of interest and a certain amount of dogmatism.” "Trust Us We're Experts!" p. 198

“’The problem with peer review is that we have good evidence on its deficiencies and poor evidence on its benefits,’ the British Medical Journal observed in 1997. ‘We know that it is expensive, slow, prone to bias, open to abuse, possibly anti-innovatory, and unable to detect fraud. We also know that the published papers that emerge from the process are often grossly deficient.’

In theory, the process of peer review offers protection against scientific errors and bias. In reality, it has proven incapable of filtering out the influence of government and corporate funders, whose biases often affect research outcomes.” "Trust Us We're Experts!" p. 199


"It's all about money. Get published in a major medical journal and your future is made. Most peer reviewers are doing their own studies. That's what makes them peers. They want to be able to publish. Therefore, they are not particularly inclined to make more than perfunctory negative comments. Obviously, they don't want to alienate the authors of papers, since they either are or hope to become published themselves.

Peer review is a farce. The only kind of review that makes real sense is professional independent reviewers. Yet, for decades we've had peer review trotted out as the be-all and end-all in determining the legitimacy of papers. It's been unquestioned, while a little examination of the concept demonstrates that it's nearly certain to result in fraudulent work being passed as good science." -Gaia Health


[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
Re: question for nora about fruit
Author: nora (---.242.36.101.Dial1.Seattle1.Level3.net)
Date: 12-13-04 08:32

Thanks, Karma. I admire your ability to use your sense of logic and I very much agree with you that obviously there is nothing in the standard, 'peer- reviewed' (ha, let's get a bunch of ignorant, misguided fools together and see how much they agree with one another) literature that applies to a truly healthy human being. We have to discover our own paths, quite separate from all that falseness. It can be daunting, and people need to hear over and over that they can trust themselves, and trust nature. That's why I keep repeating it! Thanks again for your support, it's nice to know my words are helpful.

Best wishes,
Nora
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]

ecomm wrote:

<<<And it is not that difficult to pass a 2 cm stone. Please wait and do not undertake surgery. The gallblader is important and it is YOUR organ and not the doctors organ! I would immediately get on the liver flushes! Theoretically,even if you would have surgery then you would still pass stones from the liver! Many people have reported this on curezone. It may take a good 3 months until youre gallbladder is clear,but it is worth it.>>>

Thanks for sharing your EXPERIENCE!

“Believe only your own experience. There is no fact like a fact learned from your own life.” -Aristotle

Hey ZeuS (The T___U___R___D),

Why don't you go CRAP somewhere else?

Lois wrote:

SueZ has insulted almost everyone on the board at one time or another this year -

A partial list of the victims -

UtopianLife
banana who
LaVeronique
Panchito
Fresh
NuNativis
TSM
CommonSenseRaw
RawPracticalist
Bryan

There are others.

That's practically everyone who posts on the board.

In just the last two threads (Love on a Plate and LOL--Harley), four people were chastised or ridiculed - Panchito, RawPracticalist, TSM and bananawho.

What's interesting is that some of the guys - after she humiliated them, they ended up becoming her loyal followers - "LOL"





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2015 02:43PM by John Rose.

alymon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi everyone,
>
> I just had a gallbladder attack that lasted more
> than a week and I found out that I have a 2cm
> gallstone at the bottom of it that's been sitting
> there for a while. I was wondering if any of you
> know what should I do in order to dissolve it and
> get rid of it, without having to go through a
> medical surgery. Have any websites to recommend?
> Thank you so much.

Just as a general rule of thumb, in life, I would say it's not a good idea to try to shove a 2 cm stone through a 3mm narrowing tube.

CLINICAL EXPERIENCE Versus OPINION

This is what Dr. Schulze has to say about this subject,

"The following is my CLINICAL EXPERIENCE, not my OPINION, there is a BIG DIFFERENCE. I had hundreds and hundreds of patients walk into my clinic over the 20 years I practiced with gallbladder pain from gallstones, about 40% of them brought in their ultrasounds POSITIVELY SHOWING numerous, sometimes hundreds of gallstones and big masses of hardened cholesterol. I put all of these patients on liver and gallbladder flushes and liver and gallbladder cleansing herbs and my 5 Day Cleansing and Detoxification Program if not my Incurables Program. While doing these programs and my herbal formulae, my patients passed hundreds of black, red, purple and green rocks. After their treatment most of the 40% that had previous ultrasounds and many of those that didn't returned to their medical doctors for an ultrasound and I can say that over 90% of them were stone free. The remaining (less than 10%) had to do a little more work and were stone free in another month and a few more Liver Flushes later. THE PICTURES DON'T LIE! The MEDICAL DOCTORS agreed.

As I stated in the 2nd letter from Helen K. in Eugene, Oregon, I had many patients come see me in the middle of gallbladder ATTACKS, with stones stuck in the gallbladder and bile ducts and not a one of them ever had to have surgery after doing the liver and gallbladder flush and herbal treatment, NOT A ONE!

I have hundreds of natural and medical doctors following my programs, including the liver flush and all of their experiences have been the same as mine. One such medical doctor that follows my work, has personally trained with me and has had much success with the liver flush is in your area. Dr. Roopa Chari, M.D.. Her clinic is The Chari Center Of Health Inc. in San Diego, California. The clinic telephone is (619) 275-8073 or go to www.charicenter.com If you have any doubts about this treatment, I would highly suggest that you see Dr. Chari for some expert advise."

In "The Sam Biser Save Your Life Herbal Video Collection User Manual", Sam Biser says, "One leading naturopathic doctor says the liver flush is dangerous. He is crazy and ignorant. Here's why...

Let me quote you what an ignorant natural healer is scaring people with, and then I will give you Richard Schulze's comments. Here is the doctors first statement...

"Many people tell tales of passing huge stones on the liver flush.
However, what they think are gallstones are actually a complex of
minerals, olive oil and lemon juice produced within the gastro-
intestinal tract."

Schulze: "This is true -- but only part of it. When you do a flush, you will see these stones that are clear to translucent-like green. These are soft and spongy. These are congealed olive oil that you consumed.

But what about the black ones? What about the red ones that have blood in them? What about the ones that are an inch and a half long and have a brown, hard crusty outside, and when we broke them open, they were black and purple inside. That's olive oil??? Impossible!

Obviously, from this guy's statement, I can say that he has never done, or done with anybody -- a liver flush."

Biser: Here is the man's next comment. It scared one of my readers...

"The olive oil liver flush is not a good idea for a couple of reasons. First of all, consuming a large quantity of any oil will result in contraction of the gallbladder. It is quite possible that violent contraction of the gallbladder would increase the likelihood of a stone blocking the bile duct. This is a very serious condition that often requires surgery to prevent death."

Now, comment on that one.

Schulze: "Why do we do the flush? It is to cause a contraction of the gallbladder, and purge out the contents.

I always tell people that the gallbladder is like the rectum of the liver. When we do a liver flush, it's like an enema. It flushes out whatever is in the gallbladder.

Notice how he says, "Quite Possible." This is his theory. I have done a liver flush on over 5,000 people and I've never had a person that got a gallstone stuck.

And what were his words again: "Quite possible." This is why I say an N.D. in this country nowadays, you might as well call them an M.D."

Biser: "But what about his comment that this could cause death?"

Schulze: "This man is absolutely insane. That is my opinion of him.

I have had patients who have come to me from the hospital with gallstones (ultrasound) in their gallbladder, and stones entering and stuck in the bile duct, causing them extreme pain where they were doubled over.

I have many cases like this, and the minute they do the liver flush, they notice relief."

i am not really following this discussion and am not sure what the issue is but


doesn't the below show diameters of 7-8mm for both ducts?
what size stones are we talking about not being able to pass?

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
cystic duct
7.7mm

CBD can be up to 8mm
The mean diameter of the normal common duct was 4.1 mm. A common duct greater than 7 mm in diameter can be seen in (a) nonjaundiced patients with gallstones and/or pancreatitis, or (b)

<<<what size stones are we talking about not being able to pass? >>>

[www.curezone.org]

so why do people keep saying 3mm when the ducts can be larger?

There are numerous Protocols to Flush the Liver/Gallbladder and here is one that used to be used at the renowned Lahey Clinic in Boston, Massachusetts. I find it interesting that hospitals also used to use enemas and they called them clysters and I'm guessing that if it works, they don't want to use it because a patient healed is money lost!

LIVER - GALL BLADDER FLUSH

RECOMMENDATION

With the approval of your physician, it is recommended that you perform the Liver-Gall Bladder Flush three times a year, even if you no longer have a gall bladder. The purpose of this procedure is to assist your body in its efforts to maintain free-flowing bile and to help keep the gall bladder free of debris. It is a very simple and natural procedure which at one time was used at the renowned Lahey Clinic in Boston, Massachusetts.

The idea is to cause the gall bladder to naturally expel any accumulated matter, including stones or pre-stone sludge composed of stagnant bile and toxins. Adequate amounts of magnesium are ingested which will allow for a relaxation of the smooth musculature which includes those controlling the relaxation and contraction of the bile duct. Olive oil is ingested, which, if taken in sufficient quantity, will cause the gall bladder to contract, forcing the expulsion of the bile sludge out of the gall bladder into the now relaxed bile duct. Coffee enemas are used which stimulate the release of waste from the liver into the bile duct which also increases the rate of bile released from the liver.

WHAT YOU WILL NEED

One case (approximately 38 pounds) of organic apples to be juiced, or the equivalent (approximately one gallon per day for 5 days) in frozen organic apple juice reconstituted. Only use organic apple juice which is free of preservatives. Fresh is best, then frozen second.

Ortho-phosphoric acid (Ultra-Phos Liquid available from Ultra Life (618-594-7711) at a cost of about $9.50 plus shipping.
Olive oil (cold pressed virgin).
Epson salts (available from Wal-Mart in a 4 Lb container).
Organic ground coffee, if available; substitute Folgers Instant if not.
Fruit, and whipping cream (organic if possible). Get some lemons and oranges for "chasing".

GALL BLADDER RESULTS AND REACTIONS

On the seventh day, the morning after the consumption of the flush, it is not uncommon to find many greenish objects expelled in the bowel movement. These may be numerous and range in size anywhere from 1/8" - 3/4" in diameter. Most tend to be quite soft, while others may be very hard and stone-like. Sometimes they may continue to show up in the bowel movement for several days following the flush. These particles, composed mostly of coagulated bile, are believed to come directly from the gall bladder and indicate a "successful" flush.

Most people do not experience any discomfort from doing the liver-gall bladder flush, other than a newly discovered, considerable dislike for the taste of Epson salts and straight olive oil. However, it is possible that one may feel some nausea or other discomfort. This is not cause for worry or concern, but rather is due to the contraction of the gall bladder and the process of elimination of toxins. Quite the contrary, as a result of the liver-gall bladder flush, one usually feels an improvement in well-being.

FLUSH PROCEDURE

Days 1-5

Follow your recommended diet and supplement program as usual. Ingest as much apple juice as you feel comfortable doing. This step should be done unless you are advised to the contrary by your physician on account of blood sugar problems, or if the apple juice causes you discomfort. If it causes you nausea, dilute the apple juice with water.

Add a total of 90 drops of ortho-phosphoric acid (Ultra Phos) to the apple juice each day. This may be taken all at once, or as 45 drops twice or 30 drops three times a day. If you have been advised to use other than apple juice, take the drops with the juice of your choice.

Day 6

(Note: The times given are for example)

(11:00 - 12:00) Eat a normal breakfast and lunch and take your supplements as usual.

(2:00) Two hours after lunch, dissolve 2 tablespoons of Epson salt into 3 ounces of pure water and drink it. If you find the taste intolerable, you may "chase it" with a little juice, preferably citrus, of your choice.

(4:00; start at 3:15 to prepare) Four hours after lunch, take a coffee enema (one teaspoon or less of coffee) with 1/4 cup of Epson salt dissolved into it. (See below for details of enema).

(5:00) Five hours after lunch, dissolve 1 tablespoon of Epson salt into 3 ounces of warm, purified water and drink it.

(6:00 or 7:00) Six or seven hours after lunch you have a choice: You may either fast, or you may have a fruit and whipped cream salad. It is preferable that you eat the salad. It is to be made with a variety of fresh or frozen fruit of your choice and "real" whipped cream. One should eat as much as desired.

At bedtime, drink 1/2 cup of unrefined olive oil. If necessary, you may blend the oil with an equal amount of fresh-squeezed orange, grapefruit, or diluted lemon juice (but this increases the quantity you have to consume). Or you may alternate swallows of oil with swallows of juice. Should nausea be felt at this time, it is due to the contraction of the gall bladder.

Immediately after consuming the oil, go to bed. It is best to lie on the right side with your right knee drawn up to your chest. This will help facilitate the movement of the oil from the stomach. If you feel nauseous during the night, take another coffee enema.

Day 7

In the morning, take another coffee enema with 1/4 cup of Epson salts dissolved into it. Also, drink 3 ounces of water with 1 tablespoon of Epson salts dissolved into it.

Resume your normal diet.

If you experience nausea one to four days after the flush, drink 1 tablespoon of Epson salt dissolved in a glass of warm water. Take another coffee enema with 1 tablespoon of Epson salts. This should fix it.

NOTES ON TAKING AN ENEMA
* Use only pure/filtered water.
* Use 1 teaspoon or less of coffee. Put it into the water along with the Epson salt, and bring it to a boil. Strain out the coffee grains before use.
* Allow the water to cool before use. To test for proper temperature, put some on your wrist; it should not be uncomfortable. Water that is too hot can burn your insides!!!
* Use two quarts of water. The first is used to remove debris. The second is a nutritional enema, which means that you will hold the water in and not expel it.
* Remove air from the hose before inserting the syringe into your anus; air will create cramps.
* Allow the water to enter you slowly; if you go too fast, you may be forced to expel it. Once the water is inside you, lie on the left side, right knee (top knee) up towards the chest, left knee extended. Wait for 15 minutes. Then lie on your back with both knees up; wait for 15 minutes. Then lie on your right side, left knee up towards the chest, right knee extended; wait for 15 minutes.
* If you can find one, use a transparent enema bottle so you can see the rate at which water is flowing.
* If you have gas, 1 tablespoon of molasses added to the water will help.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> alymon Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > I just had a gallbladder attack that lasted
> more
> > than a week and I found out that I have a 2cm
> > gallstone at the bottom of it that's been
> sitting
> > there for a while. I was wondering if any of
> you
> > know what should I do in order to dissolve it
> and
> > get rid of it, without having to go through a
> > medical surgery. Have any websites to
> recommend?
> > Thank you so much.
>
> Just as a general rule of thumb, in life, I would
> say it's not a good idea to try to shove a 2 cm
> stone through a 3mm narrowing tube.

Problems could increase exponentially if attempting to pull 10 cm gall stones through tiny tortuous tubes using john rose's suck it out into a toilet paper lined @#$%& bowl "hypercolonic tension" vacuum methodology, IMO.

[www.curezone.org]
Gallstones & Liver Flush

If you are considering a liver flush for gallstones
or for gallbladder attacks, you should read this page!

...

How many people with symptomatic gall stones experience cure after liver flushing?

56 of 121 = 46% Source: Reference

How many people with symptomatic gallstones experience improvement after liver flushing?

55 of 115 = 48% Source: Reference

How many people with symptomatic gallstones regretted liver flushing?

2 of 158 = 1% Source: Reference

How many people with symptomatic gall stones got worse after liver flushing?

4 of 131 = 3% Source: Reference

How many people with symptomatic gallstones got no improvement after liver flushing?

6 of 104 = 6% Source: Reference

How many people with symptomatic gallstones experienced SERIOUS case of acute pancreatitis after liver flushing?

1 of 141 = 1% Source: Reference

But, that person have not selected that he/she regretted liver flushing!

How many people with symptomatic gallstones experienced MILD case of acute pancreatitis after liver flushing?

5 of 147 = 3% Source: Reference

One of them regretted liver flushing!

How many people with symptomatic gallstones experienced STRONG gallbladder attack during a liver flush?

1 of 141 = 1% Source: Reference

But, that person have not selected that he/she regretted liver flushing!

How many people with symptomatic gallstones experienced MEDIUM strong gallbladder attack during a liver flush?

18 of 147 = 12% Source: Reference

One of them regretted liver flushing!

How many people with symptomatic gallstones experienced MILD gallbladder attack during a liver flush?

11 of 147 = 7% Source: Reference

One of them regretted liver flushing!

...
[www.curezone.org]

Playing with numbers is the forte of this site's resident bean turned poo p counter who would have us believe the stats given by his idol in bombastic stylelessness, 'mr. curezone', who states in his bio he spent time auditing premed collage courses. He proclaims to even have taken Psychology 101. Lol.


I'm sure many of us have heard the old accountant joke...

Accountant: How much is 2+2.

Listener: Four, but you tell me.

Accountant: Whatever you want it to be. Har har har wink wink nudge nudge.

>he spent time auditing premed collage courses.

I think his collages turned out quite nice actually.

bromelain... yum

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >he spent time auditing premed collage courses.
>
> I think his collages turned out quite nice
> actually.
>
> bromelain... yum
>
> [1.bp.blogspot.com]
> AAAAAAAAAEU/ER26YAick28/s1600/Pineapple.jpeg


Lol.

people here claim to have passed large stones.

how do you know?

2cm does seem quite large

so is all of this true? just curious. if someone has the time to critique.

from webmd

The primary function of the gallbladder is to store bile, a brown or yellowish fluid that helps the body break down fatty food. When you eat a meal, the gallbladder releases its stored bile into the cystic duct. From there the fluid passes through the common bile duct and into the small intestine to mix with food.

Chief among the ingredients of bile are cholesterol and bile acids. Normally, the concentration of bile acids is high enough to break down the cholesterol in the mixture and keep it in liquid form. However, a diet high in fat can tip this delicate balance, causing the liver to produce more cholesterol than the bile acids are able to handle. As a result, some of this excess cholesterol begins to solidify into crystals, which we call gallstones. About 80% of all gallstones are called cholesterol stones and are created this way. The remaining 20% consist of calcium mixed with the bile pigment bilirubin and are called pigment stones.

Gallstones can form even in people who eat properly. And as researchers have found, a diet extremely low in fat can also contribute to gallstone formation: With little fatty food to digest, the gallbladder is called into play less frequently than usual, so the cholesterol has more time to solidify. Other factors that can reduce activity in the gallbladder, possibly leading to gallstone formation, include cirrhosis, the use of birth control pills or hormone replacement therapy, and pregnancy.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> alymon Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > I just had a gallbladder attack that lasted
> more
> > than a week and I found out that I have a 2cm
> > gallstone at the bottom of it that's been
> sitting
> > there for a while. I was wondering if any of
> you
> > know what should I do in order to dissolve it
> and
> > get rid of it, without having to go through a
> > medical surgery. Have any websites to
> recommend?
> > Thank you so much.
>
> Just as a general rule of thumb, in life, I would
> say it's not a good idea to try to shove a 2 cm
> stone through a 3mm narrowing tube.

I'm bumping this to add that even those with gallbladder sludge, and not stones, shouldn't have anything to do with these ghastly "gallbladder flushes", IMO.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2015 08:44PM by SueZ.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> people here claim to have passed large stones.
>
> how do you know?
>
> 2cm does seem quite large


Oh does it now, really?

Your e book fake "story" must have been very heavy in the physiology department.

A little update about my client that underwent a flush using epsom salts under the care of his doctor...
I talked to her a few weeks ago and found out that she is a chiropractor, not an MD. My client was mistaken about her degrees.
Anyway, as I mentioned, I have given chinese herbs and high amounts of fresh juice to help with stones and so far, this method has worked. I never dabbled with the heavy duty flushes, because I am one to heal the side effects of other harsh treatments, not one that likes to cause harsh side effects.
Well, I found out that this client had discomfort in his colon after the third flush, possibly from a tear from old matter being pushed out. He had blood in his stool afterwards. It has been three weeks and he says it has been healing. Per my suggestion, he has been drinking the gel of one aloe leaf daily (about a pint) and it has helped repair the wound he felt in the colon.

Initially, she wanted him to do 5 flushes altogether, but he told her that there was no way he would continue after the 3rd flush.

I once read a study that showed epsom salts being found in the blood, just from soaking in an epsom salt bath. And here, she had him ingest two tablespoons of the epsom salts in one day, every two weeks.

Well, even though he expelled squirming parasites and stones (although he didn't collect any), the side effects were too unpleasant for him, and seemingly dangerous.

Tai Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A little update about my client that underwent a
> flush using epsom salts under the care of his
> doctor...
> I talked to her a few weeks ago and found out that
> she is a chiropractor, not an MD. My client was
> mistaken about her degrees.

Thank you for reporting your discovery. I doubted your client's story but am still very surprised a chiropractor would make such a suggestion. It seems like malpractice to me.

Anyone else remember what happened to Carmella of "Sunny Raw Kitchen" raw vegan award winning fame?

[carmellassunnyrawkitchen.com]

From her blog...

"As some of you may know by now, at the moment I’m going through a major healing process. In the aftermath of doing two Liver & Gallbladder Cleanses a few months ago I’ve developed symptoms of Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS) as well as Inflammatory Bowel Disease (IBD). As I’m healing myself of these conditions naturally […]"

[carmellassunnyrawkitchen.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2015 09:09PM by SueZ.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anyone else remember what happened to Carmella of
> "Sunny Raw Kitchen" raw vegan award winning fame?
>
>
> [carmellassunnyrawkitchen.com]-
> with-the-liver-and-gallbladder-flush/
>
> From her blog...
>
> "As some of you may know by now, at the moment
> I’m going through a major healing process. In
> the aftermath of doing two Liver & Gallbladder
> Cleanses a few months ago I’ve developed
> symptoms of Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS) as well
> as Inflammatory Bowel Disease (IBD). As I’m
> healing myself of these conditions naturally
> […]"
>
> [carmellassunnyrawkitchen.com]-
> to-health-recipe-book-sale-extended/


I feel really really bad for anyone, like Carmella, who falls for this liver and gallbladder flush hoax and think the only way to "cure" the initial damage is to follow the flush with more flushes. No one who is truly medically trained, and/or knows anything substantive about human anatomy and physiology would ever endorse this horrible flush. Please, people, don't fall for this asinine "treatment" perpetrated by ignorants and scam artists. Be smart or get smart!

SueZ wrote:
Anyone else remember what happened to Carmella of "Sunny Raw Kitchen" raw vegan award winning fame?

Tai:
I watched a couple of those videos of Carmella from the links you gave. For everyone who won't watch them, she had digestive problems after doing two liver flushes with the epsom salts. She got really skinny from the digestive problems. Her latest update was last year (see youtube link below), when she was still struggling to regain her health back. She went for a colonoscopy which made her feel even worse, but could not identify the problem, because she suspects it must be in the small intestine. So she deeply regretted the colonoscopy.

At 14:00 and on, she discusses another similar case of a woman who developed a fat intolerance after the liver flush:

[www.youtube.com]

SueZ wrote:
It seems like malpractice to me.

Tai:
I looked up on some drugs websites that oral dosages for epsom salts can range from 10-30 grams as a laxative. So, in her mind, she was not doing anything crazy.

But from an herbal perspective, when a professional purges or sedates what is already deficient, or tonifies what it already excessive, that is malpractice.
In TCM, we have a wide range of laxatives, from strong purgatives, to oily seeds, to blood tonics, to qi movers, to even yin and yang tonics. There is no one generic laxative in TCM. The danger of giving a strong purgative in a deficient person is it can make them more deficient.

So the point is that Carmella described herself as healthy before the liver flushes and she said she had no real need to do them. She didn't suffer from any gallbladder problems. But likely she was on the deficient side, so the strong purge was too harsh for her.

Then I was reading yesterday about some people that might have too much magnesium or an inability to clear magnesium fast enough, so a high dose of epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) could really be bad.

Then I saw this video yesterday, in which the doctor says it can be dangerous to drink oil, as some of the oil could get into the lungs. Start watching at 4:00

[lowfatveganchef.com]

Well, Richard Schulze had success using liver flushes with no epsom salt and with just oil, along with intense herbs and juices and got success. I still believe him, but I am motivated to hear both sides and learn the contraindications.

There is a grain of truth in everything, but people always add on their own BS at the end of it, even I do it, I have to stop myself from riding the information wave with my own twist or slant.

There may be a little truth in what everyone is saying here. Equally and not so equally. But truth is so relative and words can be manipulated to mean so may things. Its hard to tell what is true.