My friends, I need your help again.

I just had a terribly painful crisis, an excruciating pain, I thought I was going to die. I woke up this morning feeling fine. I started drinking water throughout 2 hours, taking sips at times, not gulping it down, and I started getting sharp pain in my left side under rib cage and at waist level. Then I got the same pain in the right side. I got out of bed to make my choco banana milk and while preparing it, the pain got worse, all through my waist and my lower back, in my stomach and on the sides. I couldn't handle it, it was extremely strong.

I went to the bathroom, I had spasms in my stomach. I finally had a bowel movement but the elimination was ok, not diarrhea, not constipated. Also, during elimination, I sensed a smell of medication/ammonia. But the sharp pain was huge, I was basically thinking I would die, it was so unbearable. And the pain got worse when I tried to stay straight or even stand up, I was forced to stay bended on my lap/knees. I never had this pain before. Then I felt nausea, like vomiting (but I didn't vomit), I had cold swets and feeling very cold. I started praying and the pain slowly diminished. I finally got up and I was shaking. I looked in the mirror and my face was paper-white with a dash of green. I slowly crawled in my bed.

This morning I just took few bites of banana and a bit of raw carob while making the smoothie. And the B12 first thing in the morning. Last night before going to bed I took the Ca D2 powder. I need to search on the Internet what caused this awful event. The pain I was mentioning first in this topic never went away, just diminished at times, especially after drinking more water. But I've been having stomach spasms all this time. I'm afraid to eat anything, though I have my smoothie by my side. I'm still shaky, weak, feeling cold, my face is still white, and I feel a light dull pain in my stomach.

I talked about a similar but lighter previous pain (that I've been having for the past week) in my diary: [www.rawfoodsupport.com]

This illustrates exactly how I felt: [kidneystonewebsite.com]

Any idea/suggestion is so helpful. Thank you so much.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Raw vegan for life. Vegan for the animals. Raw for my health.

What I noticed is that in the past days I increased my water intake and the pain slowly became less obvious. Which could mean that the water helped dissolve the stones or move them along towards elimination. Then this morning I drank lots of water on an empty stomach, before breakfast, and it made the pain go up again, this time an unbearable pain, which it's experienced when the stones are eliminated.

Also, there could be calcium stones due to the marine calcium I'm taking, or could be strontiu stones which cause an ammonia odor when eliminated (one of their compound is ammonia).

I'll keep investigating...

[tamarastjohn.com]

[www.naturalremediesforkidneystones.net]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Raw vegan for life. Vegan for the animals. Raw for my health.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2015 03:59PM by Ela2013.

If you are going to consume that much spinach juice (and other high oxalic acid containing foods) you need to also take large amounts of stone breaking herbs and spices and know what you are doing to avoid such problems.

First thing - when your body says "stop" stop. Don't drink any more spinach juice and start taking stone breakers. Keep hydrated. If a stone gets stuck you will want some heavy duty pain killers at hand so you might want to get yourself checked out by someone qualified to give those to you for a rainy day.

Second thing - don't consume anything else with high oxalates for a while. Give it a rest.

I meant Struvite stones, not strontiu stones, my mistake.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Raw vegan for life. Vegan for the animals. Raw for my health.

Hi Ela,

Here is my File Preview for my file on Kidneys.

Kidneys
=====================================================================
…see “Chanca Piedra” file…
…see “Fluoride” file…
…see “Parsley” file…
…see “Polycystic Kidney Disease” file…
=====================================================================
…File Preview…
• The kidneys are the organ mainly responsible for not only the filtering of the blood, but by monitoring the acid-alkaline balance they also regulate the physical properties and composition of the blood.
• Most damage to the Kidneys and their ability to filter and clean your blood is caused by Toxemia, dirty blood as the result of a degenerative lifestyle.
• If your blood has too much toxic waste in it, it is very hard on your Kidneys. This can be caused by being constipated and having pounds of old fecal matter in your bowel and you are now beginning to reabsorb the poisons back into your blood: auto-intoxication.
• The only reason your Kidneys are failing is because the blood they are trying to filter is more like a toxic sludge. If you clean up your lifestyle, your food program, flush out your elimination organs especially the Bowel, the Liver and the Gall Bladder and of course the Kidneys, your Kidneys and your body will heal itself.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Types of Kidney disease
• Symptoms related to kidney failure usually occur only in late stages of the disease, when kidney function has diminished to less than 10 to 25 percent of normal capacity.
• Scientists have described five stages in the progression to kidney failure in people with diabetes.
• Stage I. The flow of blood through the kidneys, and therefore through the glomeruli, increases--this is called hyperfiltration--and the kidneys are larger than normal. Some people remain in stage I indefinitely; others advance to stage II after many years.
• Stage II. The rate of filtration remains elevated or at near-normal levels, and the glomeruli begin to show damage. Small amounts of a blood protein known as albumin leak into the urine--a condition known as microalbuminuria. In its earliest stages, microalbuminuria may not be detected on each evaluation. But as the rate of albumin loss increases from 20 to 200 micrograms per minute, the finding of microalbuminuria becomes more constant. (Normal losses of albumin are less than 5 micrograms per minute.) A special test is required to detect microalbuminuria. People with type 1 and type 2 diabetes may remain in stage II for many years, especially if they have good control of their blood pressure and blood glucose levels.
• Stage III. The loss of albumin and other proteins in the urine exceeds 200 micrograms per minute. It now can be detected during routine urine tests. Because such tests often involve dipping indicator strips into the urine, they are referred to as "dipstick methods." Stage III sometimes is referred to as "dipstick-positive proteinuria" (or "clinical albuminuria" or "overt diabetic nephropathy". Some patients develop high blood pressure. The glomeruli suffer increased damage. The kidneys progressively lose the ability to filter waste, and blood levels of creatinine and urea-nitrogen rise. People with type 1 and type 2 diabetes may remain at stage III for many years.
• Stage IV. This is referred to as "advanced clinical nephropathy." The glomerular filtration rate decreases to less than 75 milliliters per minute, large amounts of protein pass into the urine, and high blood pressure almost always occurs. Levels of creatinine and urea-nitrogen in the blood rise further.
• Stage V. The final stage is kidney failure. The glomerular filtration rate drops to less than 10 milliliters per minute. Symptoms of kidney failure become apparent.
• These stages describe the progression of kidney disease for most people with type 1 diabetes who develop kidney failure. For people with type 1, the average length of time required to progress from onset of kidney disease to stage IV is 17 years. The average length of time to progress to kidney failure is 23 years. Progression to kidney failure may occur more rapidly (5-10 years) in people with untreated high blood pressure. If proteinuria does not develop within 25 years, the risk of developing advanced kidney disease begins to decrease. Type 1 diabetes accounts for only 5 to 10 percent of all diagnosed cases of diabetes, but type 1 accounts for 30 percent of the cases of kidney failure caused by diabetes.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Vegetarian Handbook
• …the high concentrations of calcium mix with uric acid in the kidneys and form kidney stones.
• “Another thing that happens is that when the kidneys begin to week overtime to rid the body of excess urea, they also excrete large amounts of minerals, one of the most important of which is calcium. The result of this calcium excretion is twofold. First, the high concentrations of calcium mix with uric acid in the kidneys and form kidney stones. The second thing that can happen is that the body becomes depleted of calcium and draws it out of the bones, rendering then porous and week; the end result can be osteoporosis.” Gary Null, “The Vegetarian Handbook” p. 45
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JOURNEY TO THE CENTER OF YOUR COLON
• …as a final effort to keep from acidifying, the body will actually precipitate acids out of solution, in the form of solid crystals and salts. This is the exact mechanism of gallstones, kidneys stones, uric acid crystals, plaque, and cholesterol crystals.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fire Water
• A primary purpose of kidneys is to balance electrolytes in blood. This pair of organs filter blood to neutralize excess acids and alkalis, then excrete them as salts and water in urine. In essence, kidney function is electric, not merely chemical.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Cause of dark circles under the eyes?
• In Michio Kushi's book "Your Face Never Lies", dark circles under the eyes indicate kidney problems.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Bags/Circles Under Eyes > Detox?
• Because of their close proximity, a radical disturbance of the kidneys automatically disturbs the adrenals, but the effect of fermentation and putrefaction in the colon has a more constant negative effect on both the adrenals and the pituitary. A poor colon condition in every way can harm the rest of the body and the important glands in particular.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Dark circles under eyes... do they go?
• I had the worst dark circles under my eyes - no amount of concealer would cover them, and I was always horribly self-conscious about them. I've done numerous bowel cleanses, and a bunch of liver flushes (13 I think) and I sleep LOTS, and none of that made any difference.
• I asked Andreas Moritz (curezone) about it, and he told me that I needed to cleanse my kidneys. He recommended celery seed tea, which I can describe in detail how to make, if you're interested. Long story short, the circles went away, and for the first time in my life I didn't need makeup. Eating raw made no difference in my circles, by the way.
• The first time I drank the tea I could actually feel my kidneys contracting and churning. It was very powerful. And it worked. The tea is made with celery seed that you crush yourself, and boiled water, so it's not raw, although if you were adamant about it being raw you could try making it and letting it sit in the sun.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kidney Cleansing Recipes
• Celery seeds have a direct action on the kidneys, increasing the elimination of water and speeding up the clearance of accumulated toxins from the joints and so is of benefit in any oedematous condition that accompanies arthritis.
• According to the first hand experience, the best recipe is Edgar Cayce's:
• Watermelon Seed Tea for Kidney Stones
• Kidney Cleanse from Dr. Hulda Clark’s book The Cure for All Diseases
• Dr. Richard Schulze 5 Day Kidney Cleansing and Detoxification Program
• Corn-silk tea is the best single herb for increasing urine flow and restoring the kidneys.
• Parsley leavses and root tea is commonly used for kidney cleanse
• Parsley seeds are also diuretics, and are used for dissolving kidney stones
• Lemonade diet is also commonly used for Kidney cleanse
• Juice fasting (vegetable juices) is used for cleansing kidneys
• Functions of the Kidney
• Elimination of metabolic wastes
• Blood pressure regulation
• Erythrocyte production - erythropoietin (stimulates red cell production)
• Vitamin D activation
• Prostaglandin synthesis
• Acid - Base balance (excretes alkaline salts)
• Fluid balance
• Electrolyte balance
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kidney Cleansing Recipes
• Lemonade diet is also a Kidney cleanse, Juice fasting is also a kidney cleanse, and any other form of fasting that incorporates a lot of liquids, will in the same time clean a kidney.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
• Kidney CLEANSING & DETOXIFICATION
• Dr. Richard Schulze Five-day Cleansing and Detoxification Program for Kidney
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting Observation from the O.R.
• People have prolific rock gardens growing in their kidneys, ureters and bladders. Most of these look like jagged craters, but many bladder stones look like a nest of 7-8 dinosaur eggs.
• Many of these people have strands of white mucus and tissue collecting on the walls of their ureters and bladder.
• Bladder cancer looks like sea grass.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
KIDNEY IMBALANCES
• Deficient Kidney Yin
• Deficient Kidney Yin - Fire Blazing
• Deficient Kidney Yang
• Deficient Kidney Yang - Water Overflowing
• KIDNEY - Yin Organ
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dialysis
DANGEROUS COMPLICATIONS
• Delirium & (Suppressed Urine & Extreme Weakness & Rapid, Feeble Pulse & Other Signs of Prostation). Such dangers do not arise from the fast, but rather from other causes.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hulda Regehr Clark
The Kidney Cleanse
• It takes a lot of liquid to "wash" the inside of your body. Taking it in the form of herbal teas gives you extra benefits. And extra enjoyment if you learn to make them with variations - especially if you need to produce a gallon of urine a day!
• Any edema or "water holding", whether in lungs, arms, or abdomen, also requires strengthening of kidneys with this recipe.
• When kidneys or bladder are actually involved in the cancer, gradually increase the dose to double the regular amounts. Be sure to start just as slowly though to avoid feeling pressure in the bladder. You will need:
• Half a cup dried hydrangea root (Hydrangea arborescens)
• Half a cup gravel root (Eupatorium purpureum)
• Half a cup marshmallow root (Althea officinallis)
• Black Cherry Concentrate, 8 oz. [twice]
• Pinch vitamin B2 powder
• 4 bunches of fresh parsley (obtained at supermarket) [a bunch at stems is about 2 inches]
• Goldenrod tincture (leave out of the recipe if you are allergic to it)
• Ginger
• Uva Ursi
• Vitamin B6, 250mg caps
• Magnesium oxide, 300mg caps
• HCl drops (Hydrochloric Acid)
• Sweetening (optional)
• Dose: Each morning, pour together 3/4 (three fourths) cup of the root mixture and 1/2 (half) cup parsley water, filling a large mug. Add 20 drops of goldenrod tincture and any spice, such as nutmeg, cinnamon, etc. Then add a pinch of B2 and 4 drops HCl to sterilize. Drink this mixture in divided doses throughout the day. Keep it cold. Do not drink it all at once or you will get a stomach ache and feel pressure in your bladder. If your stomach is very sensitive, start on half the dose.
Also take:
o Ginger capsules: one with each meal (3/day) (3 per day).
o Uva Ursi: one capsule in the morning and 2 capsules in the evening.
o Vitamin B6 (250mg): one a day.
o Magnesium oxide (300mg): one a day.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Polycystic kidney disease
• Polycystic kidney disease (PKD) is a disorder in which clusters of cysts develop primarily within your kidneys. Cysts are noncancerous round sacs containing water-like fluid.
• Polycystic kidney disease isn't limited to only your kidneys, although the kidneys usually are the most severely affected organs. The disease can cause cysts to develop elsewhere in your body.
• The greatest risk for people with polycystic kidney disease is developing high blood pressure. Kidney failure also is common with polycystic kidney disease.
• Polycystic kidney disease varies greatly in its severity, and some complications are preventable. Regular checkups can lead to treatments to reduce damage to your kidneys from complications, such as high blood pressure.
•
• Polycystic kidney disease causes your kidneys to gradually lose their ability to eliminate wastes from your blood and maintain your body's balance of fluids and chemicals. As the cysts enlarge, they produce pressure and promote scarring in the normal, unaffected areas of your kidneys. These effects promote high blood pressure and interfere with the ability of your kidneys to keep wastes from building to toxic levels, a condition called uremia.
•
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hemodialysis
• In medicine, hemodialysis (also haemodialysis) is a method for removing waste products such as potassium and urea, as well as free water from the blood when the kidneys are in renal failure. Hemodialysis is one of three renal replacement therapies (the other two being renal transplant; peritoneal dialysis).
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Who Knew Preventing Kidney Stones was This Easy?
• Kidney stones can range in size from a grain of sand to larger than a golf ball. If a stone fails to pass, permanent damage to your urinary tract can result.
• Fortunately, 90 to 95 percent of kidney stones pass within a number of days or weeks, without any intervention at all. And, even better news -- the best remedy is also the best prevention, and also happens to be the least expensive: simply drink more water.
• You won’t know you have a stone until it moves into the urethra—the tube connecting your kidney and your bladder. Common symptoms include[2]:
• Pain in your side and back, below your ribs
• Episodes of pain lasting 20 to 60 minutes, of varying intensity
• Pain “waves” radiating from your side and back, to your lower abdomen and groin
• Bloody, cloudy or foul-smelling urine
• Pain with urination
• Nausea and vomiting
• “Urgency” (persistent urge to urinate)
• Fever and chills (indicates an infection is also present)
• Four Types of Kidney Stones
• Most kidney stones contain crystals of multiple types. However, usually one type predominates, and determining the type helps you identify the underlying cause3:
o 1. Calcium stones. The most common type (four out of five cases)is usually in the form of calcium oxalate. Oxalate is found in some fruits and vegetables, but your liver produces most of your oxalate. If you are found to have oxalate stones, your doctor may recommend avoiding foods rich in oxalates, such as dark green vegetables, nuts and chocolate.
o 2. Struvite stones. Found more often in women, these are almost always the result of urinary tract infections.
o 3. Uric acid stones. These are a byproduct of protein metabolism.They’re commonly seen with gout,and may result from certain genetic factors and disorders of your blood-producing tissues.
o 4. Cystine stones. Represent a very small percentage of kidney stones.These are the result of a hereditary disorder that causes your kidneys to excrete massive amounts of certain amino acids (cystinuria).
• The number one risk factor for kidney stones is not drinking enough water. If you aren’t drinking enough, your urine will simply have higher concentrations of substances that can form stones.
• As with most things, the best approach is the safest and simplest--letting the stone pass on its own.
• Avoid drinking tea since it is high in oxalates.
• Some medicinal herbs have been identified to be helpful for acute episodes, including:
• nettle leaf[8]
• bearberry
• cleavers
• corn silk
• crampbark
• gravel root
• kava kava
• khella
• hydrangea
• stone root[9]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A Kidney Stone's #1 Natural Enemy
•
•
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CLEAN YOUR KIDNEYS FOR LESS THAN $1.00
• It is very easy, first take a bunch of parsley (kintsay in tagalog) and wash it clean. Then cut it in small pieces and put it in a pot, pour clean water and boil it for ten minutes and let it cool down and then filter it and pour it in a clean bottle and keep it inside the refrigerator to cool.
• Drink one glass daily and you will notice all salt and other accumulated poison coming out of your kidney by urination also you will be able to notice the difference which you never felt before.
• Parsley is known as the best cleaning treatment for kidneys and it is natural!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Virtually all kidney disease patients on dialysis have vitamin D deficiency
•
•
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MRI Contrast & kidney function
•
•
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What Are the Causes of Kidney Lesions?
•
•
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kidney Cancer
•
•
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…End of File Preview…
=====================================================================

Email me if you would like me to email this file to you.

renal colic



[en.wikipedia.org]

Quote

Renal colic typically begins in the abdomen and often radiates to the hypochondrium (the part of the anterior abdominal wall below the costal margins) or the groin. It is typically colicky (comes in waves) due to ureteric peristalsis, but may be constant. It is often described as one of the strongest pain sensations known.[1]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2015 04:46PM by Panchito.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you are going to consume that much spinach
> juice (and other high oxalic acid containing
> foods) you need to also take large amounts of
> stone breaking herbs and spices and know what you
> are doing to avoid such problems.
>
> First thing - when your body says "stop" stop.
> Don't drink any more spinach juice and start
> taking stone breakers. Keep hydrated. If a stone
> gets stuck you will want some heavy duty pain
> killers at hand so you might want to get yourself
> checked out by someone qualified to give those to
> you for a rainy day.
>
> Second thing - don't consume anything else with
> high oxalates for a while. Give it a rest.

Turmeric works wonders for stone breaking.

If I were you I'd also cut out the calcium supplements immediately - at least until you find out what's going on.

Have you had your parathyroid levels tested? I wonder because of your having an underlying bone disease if all is well there.

Ela, what is this Ca D2 powder you take? WHat is the brand and how much do you take and for how long have you taken it?

Tai Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ela, what is this Ca D2 powder you take? WHat is
> the brand and how much do you take and for how
> long have you taken it?


Tai, it looks like Ela is taking this...

"Posted by: Ela2013 ()

Date: January 04, 2015 03:48PM


"The mineral-rich extract is a natural product obtained from the skeletal remains of the red marine algae L. calcareum (Pallas), also known as Phymatolithon calcareum (Pallas) [33]. The algae thrive in the cold Atlantic waters off the southwest coast of Ireland and the northwest coast of Iceland. Minerals from seawater are
accumulated in the algae fronds over the life span of the organism.
Eventually, the mineral-rich fronds break off of the living organism and fall to the ocean floor, from where they are harvested. The mineralized fronds are separated from extraneous materials, sterilized, dried, and milled under ISO and HACCP certification. The mineral extract contains 12% calcium, 1% magnesium, and measurable levels of 72 other trace minerals. The extract is sold as a food supplement under the name Aquamin® (GRAS 000028) and is used in various products for human consumption in Europe, Asia, Australia, and North America (Marigot)."

"Lithothamnion calcareum is a red alga of the Corallinacea family whose main feature is the formation of calcium carbonate precipitate in its cell walls."

[www.epa.gov] "

Ela, if you have been on antibiotics be aware that they can really reduce your friendly gut bacteria colonies of Oxalobacteria Formigenes which are the bacteria which metabolize the oxalates we consume. I have talked about this several times on this site but can't recall where at the moment.

Anyway, I hope you are doing better.

How are you doing, Ela?

i don't see ela mentioning drinking spinach juice of any kind
where does she write that?

says she was making a carob banana smoothie

not the same thing as spinach juice

i think it was in her food diary - it was in her link in her post above

Thank you so much guys for your help and concern and support.

I'm sorry I didn't post anything these past days, but I tried to and it kept saying "Phorum Database Error", and I couldn't post. Then my laptop broke and it took a whole day to be fixed.

Yes, SueZ, it's that type of red coral algae, in the form of Aquamin TG® (extract from Lithothamnion sp.).
I don't take any antibiotics, I haven't taken any medication since going raw vegan.
I haven't checked my parathyroid levels this year. As far as I know, my thyroid is fine, I never had a problem in this regard.
Yes, I immediately stopped taking the supplements and I haven't had any spinach since then.

Tai, I take the powder content of one capsule/day. I must open the capsule and take the powder sublingually, as the capsule is made from animal gelatin. One capsule has 243 mg Calcium and 25 mg vitamin D2, in the form of the inactive yeast Saccharomyces Cerevisiae.

Coconutcream, Fresh is right, it's in my diary link in my first post on this topic.
I did have 450 ml of freshly manually cold pressed spinach juice that day, and it triggered detox or something inside my body, then, after a week, I had this crisis which seemed to be kidney detox or dissolving and eliminating stones.

SueZ, I am better now, I have not had any more crisis, I still have some dull, sometimes sharp pain, but nothing bad. I stopped drinking carbonated water as I read it is bad for the kidneys, and I drank no bubble water instead, here we have a very good local brand of natural mineral still water.

Still, I feel something has changed ever since I had that spinach juice, in terms of assimilating nutrients, digestion and elimination. Something is deffinitely different inside my body and not necessarily in a good way, it feels kind of weird, like there is something wrong there...

..............................................................................................................................................................................................................

Raw vegan for life. Vegan for the animals. Raw for my health.

> I stopped drinking carbonated water

ah ha!

Yes, Fresh, your reaction is correct, I have been drinking carbonated water for so many years now, even though I read that it is not good. But there were so many opinions out there and so different that I just went along with it, just because I liked it better than the still water and it was very convenient and cheap.

Then I now read that it causes kidney damage and it should not be drunk more than 1 liter a day, so I immediately stopped drinking it and replaced it with still water.

The water that I used to drink was the cheapest kind, basically water from underground sources, or from lakes or rivers, or sea water which has been desalted, and then it was added carbon dioxide which was industrially made. Plus it had A LOT of residue, not too mention too much calcium and such other things that are normally in bubbly water in a high concentration.

I hope I can undo the damage I have done so far...

.................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Raw vegan for life. Vegan for the animals. Raw for my health.

"Still, I feel something has changed ever since I had that spinach juice, in terms of assimilating nutrients, digestion and elimination. Something is deffinitely different inside my body and not necessarily in a good way, it feels kind of weird, like there is something wrong there... "

Ela, unfortunately your body is probably storing oxalic acid so I wouldn't go too low on the oxalate containing foods. You don't want your body to take "no incoming" as a signal to dump all at once!

Be careful with all those bananas and strawberries, etc., though.

Thank you, SueZ.
So that means I should limit my intake of bananas and strawberries and other foods containing oxalic acid? I haven't had any spinach since that juice and I'm debating with myself whether or not I should have spinach juice ever again...I was thinking of replacing the spinach juice with parsley juice, lettuce juice and other less strong greens.
I'm waiting more time to see the side effects of carbonated water going away. And maybe everything will be better. In any case, when I have enough money, I want to go and have an ultrasound.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Raw vegan for life. Vegan for the animals. Raw for my health.

Ela, it's possible that if your bowel transit time is short you may not have enough and large enough colonies of Oxalobacteria Formicenes to properly process all of the huge amount of oxalic containing foods you consume.

If this is the case it's possible that stopping eating a lot of these foods fermented is not going to work for you if you don't cut down on your high oxalate consumption. Although, as you know, I am not a fan of fermented foods, the fermentation process does break down the oxalates and you are not getting that assistance any more. The other alternative is you could add probiotics to your diet to assist your digestive system with the oxalates.

bananas and sberries are not something to worry about when it comes to oxalic acid

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bananas and sberries are not something to worry
> about when it comes to oxalic acid

Not on their own but when added to her high oxalate mainstays, which are necessitated by her budget, the more luxury medium oxalic foods can be replaced with lower oxalic foods to be on the safe side, grumpy.

not grumpy.

and nothing wrong with bananas and strawberries with respect to oxalates, even taking her diet into account.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> not grumpy.
>
> and nothing wrong with bananas and strawberries
> with respect to oxalates, even taking her diet
> into account.

Hey, if you want to believe her problem was due to drinking carbonated water and couldn't possibly have anything to do with her "fresh seal of approval" diet I don't care. I'm trying to help Ela from having a recurrence.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Hey, if you want to believe her problem was due to
> drinking carbonated water

could be multiple things. that is one of them.
you provided other possibilities.

I merely think it foolish to prohibit bananas and strawberries due to oxalates.

please do submit your approved list of low oxalate foods.

and couldn't possibly
> have anything to do with her "fresh seal of
> approval" diet I don't care.

If you're trying to imply that she is eating a diet that has my seal of approval, you would be incorrect.


I'm trying to help
> Ela from having a recurrence.

and I again submit to you that it is not so far fetched for someone to dispute your recommendation. what do you wish for her to eat then?

and this is all in addition to you diagnosing her when you have no idea.

and you have not provided any information to support your oxalate flushing theory

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> and this is all in addition to you diagnosing her
> when you have no idea.

I'm not diagnosing Ela.


> and you have not provided any information to
> support your oxalate flushing theory

I don't have a flushing theory.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fresh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > and this is all in addition to you diagnosing
> her
> > when you have no idea.
>
> I'm not diagnosing Ela.
>

you seem to have concluded that she has stones.


>
> > and you have not provided any information to
> > support your oxalate flushing theory
>
> I don't have a flushing theory.

this is what i was referring to

Ela, unfortunately your body is probably storing oxalic acid so I wouldn't go too low on the oxalate containing foods. You don't want your body to take "no incoming" as a signal to dump all at once!

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > fresh Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > and this is all in addition to you diagnosing
> > her
> > > when you have no idea.
> >
> > I'm not diagnosing Ela.
> >
>
> you seem to have concluded that she has stones.
>
>
> >
> > > and you have not provided any information to
> > > support your oxalate flushing theory
> >
> > I don't have a flushing theory.
>
> this is what i was referring to
>
> Ela, unfortunately your body is probably storing
> oxalic acid so I wouldn't go too low on the
> oxalate containing foods. You don't want your body
> to take "no incoming" as a signal to dump all at
> once!

Oh, ok, I see. You want me to explain to you how when someone stops taking in toxic elements like oxalates (in a cold turkey type manner) which the body stores when it can't utilize them and they are perceived as an ongoing threat it can cause a horribly too intense and dangerous detox when the ingestion is stopped too quickly?

No, I will not do that for you.



Whether Ela does or does not have stones the precautions to take should include that she may have them as there is no reason not to, IMO.

She is taking in a lot of oxalates, her problem started when she juiced a lot of spinach (which concentrates the oxalates), and although she was taking in a lot of oxalates for a long time she only recently stopped fermenting (which breaks down oxalates) many of her oxalate containing foods, and she has reported having a very short bowel transit time which is one of the things which people with sub optimal colony's of Oxalobacteria Formigenes have in common.

To me these things add up to make it worth while proceeding with an abundance of caution - which is the same as going forward as though you do have the most common of ailments which produce the symptoms presented. Especially when those symptoms bring people to their knees in writhing pain.

I'm sorry I caused an argument, my friends...

SueZ, that's a good point I haven't thought about: stopping eating the sauerkraut. I have no problem in making it again, I really liked it. The reason I stopped having sauerkraut was that I got scared when I watched Andrew Perlot's video saying it could cause stomach cancer. Then, when I had that crisis after the spinach juice, I thought that I ruined my stomach due to so much sauerkraut.

I also thought that maybe it had to do with the carob, which, after all, is a legume.

I have a lot to look into, I never thought of bananas, strawberries and other fruits/veggies as having oxalates. The only veggie I knew it had oxalates was spinach. I definitely need to search some more...

Thank you for sharing your opinions, you help me take into account different things I haven't thought about before.

My diet so far during this time was: bananas, apples, oranges, tomatoes, lettuce, dill, lemons, cucumbers, red sweet peppers, red and white cabbage, carrots, raw carob, spinach (only twice - puree and juice), parsley (twice), mandarines, cauliflower, grapefruit. I never searched to see the oxalic acid in these foods.

Yes, I find I do have quite a short transit time, but it doesn't necessarily mean that I eliminate the exact previous meal, in the morning, for example, I eliminate the previous dinner. Maybe the food I eat for, let's say, breakfast, will still cause eliminating the previous dinner, like pushing down the waste from previous evening. I need search on that too.

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Raw vegan for life. Vegan for the animals. Raw for my health.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2015 09:44PM by Ela2013.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Oh, ok, I see. You want me to explain to you how
> when someone stops taking in toxic elements like
> oxalates (in a cold turkey type manner) which the
> body stores when it can't utilize them and they
> are perceived as an ongoing threat it can cause a
> horribly too intense and dangerous detox when the
> ingestion is stopped too quickly?
>

yes. that is what i wanted. but not for me. for her.

> No, I will not do that for you.
>

oh, i get it, you just did.

i see that is what you believe.

i have no evidence that it is true.

and this is not an argument, Ela, it's just suez being all prickly when asked simple questions.

>
>
> Whether Ela does or does not have stones the
> precautions to take should include that she may
> have them as there is no reason not to, IMO.
>
> She is taking in a lot of oxalates, her problem
> started when she juiced a lot of spinach (which
> concentrates the oxalates)

so you say. you really don't know.


, and although she was
> taking in a lot of oxalates for a long time she
> only recently stopped fermenting (which breaks
> down oxalates) many of her oxalate containing
> foods, and she has reported having a very short
> bowel transit time which is one of the things
> which people with sub optimal colony's of
> Oxalobacteria Formigenes have in common.
>
> To me these things add up to make it worth while
> proceeding with an abundance of caution - which is
> the same as going forward as though you do have
> the most common of ailments which produce the
> symptoms presented. Especially when those symptoms
> bring people to their knees in writhing pain.


nice of you explain.

I am sure Ela is glad to get more information.

psst, Ela, don't worry about the bananas and strawberries...