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Re: Excruciating pain. Could it be kidney stones?
Posted by: SueZ ()
Date: April 24, 2015 03:25PM

How are you, and your family doing, Ela? It's been a while since you've posted. I'm concerned.

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Re: Excruciating pain. Could it be kidney stones?
Posted by: Ela2013 ()
Date: April 28, 2015 01:53PM

Thank you for expressing your concern, SueZ.

I'm doing ok, I haven't posted anymore as I've been doing my treatment and getting a lot outside in the sun, so I've been spending less / no time on my laptop, not even in the evening when I was back home.

As far as I know, my dad is doing ok also, I haven't asked my mom recently about him, but I'm sure she would've told me if something went wrong. I intend to write to her today.

I haven't had noticeable pain recently, just here and there some little pain, occassionally. I've been drinking my water, around 2 l / day, as I've been a lot out and I don't like to drink water on the go, as I also need a toilet close to me (it happens enough just from eating juicy fruits).

I recently started posting again in my food diary so I wrote my menu there.

I'll update my family's health situation and mine too, once I have news, in the respective threads.


Raw vegan for life. Vegan for the animals. Raw for my health.

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Re: Excruciating pain. Could it be kidney stones?
Posted by: Ela2013 ()
Date: November 24, 2015 01:45PM

Yesterday I ate some sauerkraut (the one I made, raw, salt-free) mixed with chopped tomatoes (and I ate a lot of sauerkraut) and this morning I had an absolutely huge gallbladder attack that caused me the worst pain ever (worst than going into labour, as they say, and it's so true and so much more than this). It's the second attack this year (as you know, the first one was in March after too much spinach juice). The doctor told me then to avoid cabbage, cauliflower, spinach, but yet I ate cabbage and cauliflower again all this time (and a lot of it). Today I thought I was really going to die, it was so unbearable, it was infinite times worst than the first one, so I took 3 pills (a no-spa, a medicinal coal and a non-vegan pill with bovine bile, wax and sugar and salt in it...yuck...I saw the ingredients online after taking it). So I won't eat the rest of the sauerkraut. I made another appointment for a general abdominal ultrasound for this week to see how my gallbladder is doing now. So I'm no longer vegan today, and I'm still recovering from the gallbladder attack.
What do you think about raw salt-free homemade sauerkraut? Could it have this effect on me? Especially since I ate a lot of it, and I wasn't supposed to eat cabbage anyway? Do you think that these 3 pills I took (especially the non-vegan one) will cause me more illness? Or I'll have a major detox soon from them? What should I eat now to eliminate them from my body faster and clean my body and help with the side effects of these pills? I now regret so much taking those pills, I shouldn't have taken them, I was extremely weak and so very scared and in so much pain...
This morning I woke up with a lot of pain, then it went away. I ate few small red apples, and the pain immediately came back, resulting in this huge attack.
I also felt like vomiting, then my face was pale, I was dizzy and feeling very cold and sweating. Plus I was in so much pain that I was manifesting horribly: screaming out loud like a pregnant woman in labour and like I was possessed.
I hope I'll be fine...I'm still feeling yuck about that bovine bile in that pill, it's good it was only one pill...only the thought of putting something like this in my body makes me sick...
My husband is telling me now that I should stop eating my raw vegan diet, which, in his opinion, is causing me all these health issues (he refers also to the ones I posted in the other threads).


Raw vegan for life. Vegan for the animals. Raw for my health.

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Re: Excruciating pain. Could it be kidney stones?
Posted by: Ela2013 ()
Date: November 26, 2015 08:45PM

Long update.

Today I had my general ultrasound (abdominal and pelvic, all the organs in these areas). I haven’t eaten and drunk since yesterday at midnight and my first meal today was around 3:30 pm.
So I went on an empty stomach for my ultrasound. The doctor checked everything (the same doctor I went to the first time, after the first attack). Everything is fine. She checked the previous results also and comparing them, she said that this time I have no sand in my gallbladder, but I still have sand in my kidneys (not much, just a small deposit). Last time I had the same amount of sand, but both in my kidneys and in my gallbladder, so not having sand in my gallbladder this time is great, the still water must’ve worked properly in my body to flush that sand out.
I told her what happened and what I ate and did, she said that taking the no-spa was good for that situation. She told me that I also have no stones in my gallbladder or my kidneys and that I probably scratched and upset the gallbladder with the food I ate (that sauerkraut, obviously). She also said that it must’ve been the stomach that I bothered, because the gallbladder and the stomach are in connection within the digestive system.
She recommended to eat what makes me feel good, the foods I digest best (I told her I’m a raw vegan and she didn’t asked me anything, like why or how, and she acted naturally, not surprised or anything – which was great, she is such a lovely person), to drink lots of water (2 liters is ok, but I’m thinking of 3 and maybe sometimes 4, but no more than that).

Ever since the gallbladder attack, I’ve been eating like a bird, small amounts at each meal, not many meals per day so far, chewing a lot each bite until smooth, almost liquid. I remember that John Kohler always says to chew the food very well, as the digestion starts in the mouth when the saliva is being activated. I also drank a lot of water (3 liters the first day and 4 liters yesterday; today I’ll have 3 or maybe even 4), especially to flush out those nasty pills. I think it worked, today my no.2 was smelling stronger, like I eliminated some pill. The no-spa is totally eliminated after 72 hours, while that bovine bile pill is eliminated after 24 hours, which means by 1 pm yesterday I’ve eliminated the non-vegan one and by 1 pm tomorrow I’ll eliminate the no-spa. I read that the medicinal coal isn’t metabolised, so it just absorbs the gas/toxins and gets out of the body: “Activated charcoal is pharmacologically inert and is not absorbed in the gastrointestinal tract.”

My menu so far:
Day 1 – breakfast before the attack: 5 small apples; few hours after the attack: 6 tomatoes; dinner: 5 small apples (3, then a break, then 2). 3 liters water. 624 cals.
Day 2 – breakfast: 5 oranges; lunch: 1100 g grapes; dinner: 7 tiny cucumbers with 2 tomatoes, 3 small capsicums and around 125 g cherry tomatoes. 4 liters water. 1134 cals.
Day 3 (today) – breakfast around 1:30 pm: 5 small aples (on the go, after the ultrasound); the rest of the day (until now when it’s evening): munching on grapes (I have around 3 kgs avalable, I had around 1 kg so far); dinner will also be munching on grapes. So far: 3.5 liters of water and 953 cals.
It’s not actually 3 meals in a day, but rather grazing all day on each category of food, with breaks in between grazing, when I drink water. But I wrote them like that to point out the time of day for type of food. I don’t feel full or satisfied after each small meal (or should I say snack), as it takes longer to eat and chew so well, but I need to stop before feeling like I’ve actually eaten, so that I don’t get pain and ease my digestion. I’m kind of getting used to this already.

I must say that before the attack, I was eating in a rush, not chewing enough, eating a large volume at one meal (like 2 kgs of fruits in the morning at the same meal and my huge zioddle dinner in the evening), and I was feeling too full most of the time (especially after dinner, which bothered my night sleep).
Now I no longer want to have a fruit / food belly after a meal. I want my belly to be flat after a meal, just like it was flat before that meal.

So, as a conclusion, I want to respect the following list of “to do” things:
– eat slowly
– chew very well
– don’t eat a large volume of food at the same meal
– have light dinners for a better night sleep
– eat foods that digest easy
– drink a lot of water (still water) every day (my doctor pointed out that it’s important to drink a lot of water consistently)
– remove stress from my life (I read that stress is an important factor, especially regarding gallbladder problems)
– put my health first (nothing in the daily life should be more important than my health)
– make time for taking care of my health: food, water, sleep – I won’t add exercise as I don’t have an exercise routine, but walking or spending some time out in the air, seeing the town, the people, is something that keeps me present.
I personally want to stick to this list because I never want to go through this unbearable pain ever again. It’s still a learning process, but I’m getting used to it with each day that passes.


Raw vegan for life. Vegan for the animals. Raw for my health.

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Re: Excruciating pain. Could it be kidney stones?
Posted by: Ela2013 ()
Date: December 01, 2015 10:14AM


I feel slightly better today, but still kind of weak. On Friday I actually had 3 meals, but smaller ones and it took long to eat each one as I need to eat slow and chew very well. Right now I'm constantly worrying that the pain could come back all of a sudden after one bite. But I try to stay calm, not stress about it and hope for the better.

On Friday I had a breakfast of 14 clementines, 1.5 kg grapes for lunch, before dinner I had 220 ml carrot juice, and a zoodle dinner (3 zucchinis with a sauce of 7 tomatoes, 2 capsicums, 136 g carrot pulp, fresh dill and raw dried thyme), plus 1 capsicum, some cherry tomatoes and tiny cucumbers on the side. This meal took the longest to eat. I had 1971 cals for this day, which is good, the first days after the attack I had very little cals which I felt, as I was very weak.

I know some people don't recommend grazing. I'll try not to eat all day, but have smaller meals with breaks in between, like I would do if I had more regular meals during a day. I don't want to be eating all day, I'd rather do other things as well, plus I get tired of all the chewing. But for now, I'm still at risk, so I need to at least eat lower volume of food for each meal. Now I basically eat whenever I'm hungry, instead of having 3 meals / day at set times, no matter if I'm hungry or not. And I love that I don't get the specific belly after a meal, I feel lighter and with more energy this way (especially after sweet fruits, which I digest the fastest).

What's your opinion on grazing, guys? Someone told me the following: "Grazing is generally not recommended, because it actually impairs digestion and exhausts the digestive glands which need sufficient and periodic rest. I understand your present situation and hope you can soon get back to eating spaced out meals, like 3-4 per day with good breaks in between of 2-3 hours or more." Actually, I plan on doing exactly this, but my meals will have a smaller volume, so I guess I won't be grazing anymore, but have several small meals with breaks in between.

Plus it's not like I'm constantly eating, I just have more smaller meals (with breaks in between) that I chew very well this time, so it takes longer to finish, that's all. I basically devide the volume I would normally eat into smaller meals. Maybe I shouldn't have said grazing, as maybe grazing means constantly snacking throughout the day. I heard the opinion that animals in nature don't graze, when they find a good source of food, they stop and eat plenty of it, in case they won't find another food source soon, so people shouldn't graze either, based on this comparation. But our current situation is different, plus I can't stuff myself at each meal, as I have food available in my room any time anyway.
I remember Michael Arnstein saying in a video that grazing throughout the day is what works best for him. Here is the link to the video: []

I've been eating smaller quantities with breaks in between and it's been ok, feeling real hunger and kind of weak, and I couldn't get in more than 1200 cals per day on most days, I had only one day with almost 2000 cals. I still eat with fear for a new attack. I hope soon I can get back to eating enough calories.

My menu since the gallbladder attack:

- apples
- oranges
- mandarins
- clementines
- grapes
- zoodles with my sauce
- cherry tomatoes
- cucumbers
- capsicums

On some days I had around 900 cals, on others around 1000 cals, some days I had around 1200 cals.

Ever since the gallbladder attack, I've been having moderate pain in my middle and lower back, and also in the waist line on both sides, and sometimes in the area below the rib cage, right and left. This pain isn't severe, more or less noticeable, day and night, and it gets slightly more intense after eating oranges and apples (but not after eating zoodles). I think it's a remaining body ache/sensivity after the huge pain I experienced recently, or it's just my gallbladder still irritated after the attack. I could eat less than what I'm eating now, so that the gallbladder is happy, but I'll be feeling weaker if I do.

I want to start juicing carrots and butter lettuce every day, plus having my small but frequent mono-meals of fruits (oranges, mandarins, clementines, apples, occasionally grapes), and a veggie dinner with zucchini noodles, the carrot pulp, cucumbers, tomatoes, peppers, fresh dill and raw dried thyme (these are the ingredients my body tolerates and enjoys). Somebody recommended juicing bitter greens like dandelion and beet greens, but I can't even handle spinach juice.

The same person confirmed what I read online, that oranges increase the bile flow, telling me that I don't need an increased quantity of bilewhen I have gallbladder problems.

My gallbladder is malformed from birth, meaning that it's bended towards the end where bile is being evacuated, it's like a "U" shape at that end, which can makebile stagnant in there and more difficult to eliminate.

I want to get my blood work done soon, plus to get tested for thyroid and Iodine, and I plan on ordering raw organic kelp powder soon. This week 'll get my order of B12, and after finishing my current D2, I'll order another D2, from a superior source, with a higher level of D2 (probably next year in January or February).


Raw vegan for life. Vegan for the animals. Raw for my health.

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