fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jannette

> “I couldn’t believe the difference in the way
> I felt within only one week of changing to 100%
> RAW food,” she exclaims. “The first thing I
> noticed was my clarity of mind was intensely
> heightened. I no longer had to think about
> decision making. Everything became very clear,
> there was no hesitation.”

Yes, I think anyone who is 100% raw understands the difference between eating vegan and eating raw vegan but what does all you're reiterating of what she's claims have to do with her claim that she was diagnosed with stage 3 cancer, given 6 months to live, told that if she had radiation and chemo she would have another 6 months to live? Nothing. Nothing at all.

Until she puts forth a shred of evidence she was diagnosed with cancer and given that death sentence there is absolutely no reason to think she really had cancer at all - much less being told that even with chemo and radiation she would only live a year which is a pretty darn outrageously unlikely claim.

personally i do not doubt that she had cancer.

i sent an email to her contact for more info.

no response from the other author who claimed to heal with just carrot juice.

i only posted the above for clarification on the treatments she had and the wheatgrass and that it wasn't just raw food.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> personally i do not doubt that she had cancer.


Why do you not doubt that she had cancer?

because there is no indication that she has the personal characteristics that belle has.

i have no proof. if she presented her doctor's report, would you believe it?

people questioned DR test results that he showed online and said he faked it.

so we can easily get into donald trump-land with these things.

no different from your claims of prediabetic status, skin aging issues, etc. you haven't shown any proof even though i asked. of course i have no problem with you not presenting anything, that's your choice.

SueZ wrote:
Why do you not doubt that she had cancer?

Tai:
Yes, I believe them and found them to be very trustworthy. They answered all my questions in an open and relaxed manner. They were some of the kindest raw vegans I have met.

My only concern is deficiencies that can result from no supplementation in the long run.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> because there is no indication that she has the
> personal characteristics that belle has.

She, too, is using the cancer card to sell her books. We don't know if she had cancer or not because apparently those who know about her and her fans are too wowed by her presence to ask for specifics.


> i have no proof. if she presented her doctor's
> report, would you believe it?


Sure, if she was diagnosed by a Dr. qualified to make a cancer diagnosis and deliver such a grim, and incredible, prognosis he will have a practice and a name to tell of and remember her. No, if her "Dr." was not qualified to make such a diagnosis - as in a self appointed authority who uses stuff like biophoton machines and "live blood" darkfield microscopy in their cancer diagnosis.


> no different from your claims of prediabetic
> status, skin aging issues, etc.


That's ridiculous.There's a vast difference. She is literally making a profit off of her cancer story and some with cancer will follow her lead.

you haven't shown
> any proof even though i asked.


I have given more info to some than others - you fall into the "others" side.

of course i have
> no problem with you not presenting anything,
> that's your choice.

Well next time you want someone to present you with anything more than you have you might want to rethink what you do with what you have before you go sending them PMs such as you sent to me. Just a thought...

Tai Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I believe them and found them to be very
> trustworthy. They answered all my questions in an
> open and relaxed manner.

My problem is that it seems no one has asked the right questions so the right answers are still unavailable.

>Well next time you want someone to present you with anything more than you have you might want to rethink what you do with what you have before you go sending them PMs such as you sent to me. Just a thought...

you certainly do hold a grudge, don't you.
that was, what, a year ago?

i don't recall what i sent you.
I have no problem admitting that I sometimes look back on things that i do
and am chagrined.

I wonder if you perform the same self reflection, as I would suggest that your behavior at times could be considered somewhat less than stellar.

nevertheless, please do send this PM back to me, or summarize it for me, and I will reevaluate it and apologize if need be, or stand by it, since you find it so important to bring up at this time.

>She, too, is using the cancer card to sell her books. We don't know if she had cancer or not because apparently those who know about her and her fans are too wowed by her presence to ask for specifics.

she was diagnosed in 2001

her story was featured in a magazine in 2008.

she published her books in 2013

you think it might be slightly cynical to think that she planned ahead that many years to sell books?, and her husband is on the devious plan?

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >Well next time you want someone to present you
> with anything more than you have you might want to
> rethink what you do with what you have before you
> go sending them PMs such as you sent to me. Just a
> thought...
>
> you certainly do hold a grudge, don't you.
> that was, what, a year ago?

No, I am not holding a grudge. I just have a pretty good memory since I've added more fats to my diet.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just have a pretty good memory since I've added more fats to my diet.

hope it is not coconut oil

[www.livescience.com]

Quote

"When looking at changes in cognitive function, what we found is that the total amount of fat intake did not really matter, but the type of fat did," study researcher Dr. Olivia Okereke, of Brigham and Women's Hospital, said in a statement.

he new research finds, in particular, saturated fat is associated with worse overall cognitive function and memory in women over time.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>I just have a
> pretty good memory since I've added more fats to
> my diet.

that's nice. i wonder if the two events are connected.

> you think it might be slightly cynical to think
> that she planned ahead that many years to sell
> books?


Please get serious. The appeal of these books relies very VERY heavily on the cancer story in the perennial book selling point manner.

"Raw Can Cure Cancer" and "Running Out Of Time" are their titles.

[rawveganpath.com]

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >I just have a
> > pretty good memory since I've added more fats
> to
> > my diet.
>
> that's nice. i wonder if the two events are
> connected.

No one will stop you from experimenting on your own to find out if it works for you, too.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tai Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> I believe them and found them to be very
> > trustworthy. They answered all my questions in
> an
> > open and relaxed manner.
>
> My problem is that it seems no one has asked the
> right questions so the right answers are still
> unavailable.

This man makes no dubious cancer cure claims but as to "how to do it right" in delivering a believable presentation to intelligent people in the world in regard to answering the "why to do it" on the subject of raw veganism he's a bar raiser, IMO.

[denismikhaylove.com]

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > you think it might be slightly cynical to think
> > that she planned ahead that many years to sell
> > books?
>
>
> Please get serious. The appeal of these books
> relies very VERY heavily on the cancer story in
> the perennial book selling point manner.
>
> "Raw Can Cure Cancer" and "Running Out Of Time"
> are their titles.
>
> [rawveganpath.com]

and as i said, you are suggesting that she planned her devious plan out years in advance.

>No one will stop you from experimenting on your own to find out if it works for you, too.

you tend to connect things together without any evidence, ignoring other factors that may have changed.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Tai Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > I believe them and found them to be very
> > > trustworthy. They answered all my questions
> in
> > an
> > > open and relaxed manner.
> >
> > My problem is that it seems no one has asked
> the
> > right questions so the right answers are still
> > unavailable.
>
> This man makes no dubious cancer cure claims but
> as to "how to do it right" in delivering a
> believable presentation to intelligent people in
> the world in regard to answering the "why to do
> it" on the subject of raw veganism he's a bar
> raiser, IMO.
>
> [denismikhaylove.com]


he's no different or more believable than arnstein

KFCA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I went to Janette Murray Wakelin's "Janette's
> Story" page, and I don't see anything there to
> make me think it any more authentic than Belle's
> recovery from lung cancer; Paul Bragg's recovery
> from TB; Ann Wigmore's recovery from colon cancer;
> Jay The Juiceman's recovery from bladder cancer;
> and LaLanne's recovery from, well, underweight &
> pimples. Guess I'm just a hard sell....


I guess I am a hard sell, too. Not only have I not yet seen anything that makes me believe she had a stage 3 cancer diagnosis and a six month death sentence prognosis but I haven't seen anything yet that makes me believe the record breaking 366 marathons in 366 days without a blister claim.

nobody is trying to sell you anything.
or forcing you to buy anything.

your expectations of doctor's written diagnosis posted on the web
(that you wouldn't accept anyway)
or pictures of their feet for 366 days straight is ludicrous.

[www.youtube.com]

KFCA, post all the required documentation of your husband's cancer diagnosis and cure.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2015 01:54PM by fresh.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> KFCA Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I went to Janette Murray Wakelin's "Janette's
> > Story" page, and I don't see anything there to
> > make me think it any more authentic than
> Belle's
> > recovery from lung cancer; Paul Bragg's
> recovery
> > from TB; Ann Wigmore's recovery from colon
> cancer;
> > Jay The Juiceman's recovery from bladder
> cancer;
> > and LaLanne's recovery from, well, underweight
> &
> > pimples. Guess I'm just a hard sell....
>
>
> I guess I am a hard sell, too. Not only have I not
> yet seen anything that makes me believe she had a
> stage 3 cancer diagnosis and a six month death
> sentence prognosis but I haven't seen anything yet
> that makes me believe the record breaking 366
> marathons in 366 days without a blister claim.

I just checked in on their site linked fund raiser page. Same $8,196 in donations as yesterday morning when it was said there were only 6 days left to donate. Now it is said there are 66 days left to donate so I guess they extended the gift giving period for another 2 months.

Here's a quote from the page "They broke and set world records by running around Australia (366 consecutive marathons) last year whilst in their 60's". Seems to be no bona fide documentation though. Guinness requires such things to be open to the public to qualify for their worlds record credit. Why nothing there for these world's record claimants?

It is said that Vibram was one of the sponsors for their world record breaking
366 consecutive marathon BLISTERLESS runs. I wonder why Vibram seems no longer willing to sponsor them in a movie which would certainly be fantastic for sales to a wider audience. If the stories are true.

As I said Fresh, after 30 plus years, I finally threw out some old papers, including the remainder from my husband's testicular cancer episode from 1982 a few years back. At that point, they were mostly detailed Blue Cross insurance invoices. However, if we planned on making a career out of claiming his cure came from not from conventional medicine but rather from coffee enemas, multi-gallons of carrot juice, & oxygen therapy, I'd have no problem holding on to them longer for the world to see.

But a brief history. He first consulted with Roger Hackley. M.D. (great name for a surgeon, no?), his then primary physician practicing in Oakland, CA, who sent him to a Dr. Saffron, a urology specialist, also in Oakland, CA, who did the tumor removal surgery. My husband spent two days in Providence Hospital, again Oakland, CA, where he got the report from Saffron (I was in the hospital room at the time) that the tumor was in fact cancerous. Further surgery was planned, but after consulting with collegues (sp?), Dr. Saffron decided to go with radiation therapy only. My husband left the hospital, went skiing at Tahoe the following week, then underwent many weeks of out-patient radiation therapy thru the early summer of 1982, again at Providence Hospital. Beyond that he had no further treatment & made no diet changes.

This all happened when he was about age 57, and he is still very much alive at age 87. After over 40 years as the oldest tenured member of the Berkeley Ski Club (they have a website), he finally gave up downhill skiing two years ago.

Sorry, that's all I can tell you but then we've never made any money nor got any public recognition off his "cure".

KFCA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As I said Fresh, after 30 plus years, I finally
> threw out some old papers, including the remainder
> from my husband's testicular cancer episode from
> 1982 a few years back. At that point, they were
> mostly detailed Blue Cross insurance invoices.

ok, so you can't prove it.

it's not my intention to hassle you.

J's episode was 14 years ago, and clearly, like most people, it wouldn't occur to her to need to prove to the cynics of the internet that her story is true.

yes, many lie due to money and greed and other issues, but brushing everyone now with the same brush without even attempting to investigate or get more information from the source is not warranted in my opinion, and putting expectations on people to present evidence before even trying to information is improper.



> However, if we planned on making a career out of
> claiming his cure came from not from conventional
> medicine

they are NOT making a career out of their claim.

they are merely excited to share their story to help other people, wrote a couple books and are trying to do a movie.


> but rather from coffee enemas,

she did not do coffee enemas afaik

> multi-gallons of carrot juice, & oxygen therapy,
> I'd have no problem holding on to them longer for
> the world to see.

in hindsight.

>
>
> Sorry, that's all I can tell you but then we've
> never made any money nor got any public
> recognition off his "cure".

has little to do with what evidence needs to be presented.

one might also consider that they "allegedly" ran around new zealand and have done quite a bit of other running, so their feet had already been conditioned - so not out of the question to have no additional blisters on this latest run.

Yes, I did realize that J's alleged cure was 14 years ago, but notice that they also ran a health & wellness place at some unknown dates between 2001 & now, called the Centre For Optimum Health, aka the Zen Zero Centre, on Vancouver Island, Canada with something like 20 employees---far beyond "writing a few books & trying to get a movie made". Sounds like an attempt at a commercial career move to me.

KFCA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, I did realize that J's alleged cure was 14
> years ago, but notice that they also ran a health
> & wellness place at some unknown dates between
> 2001 & now, called the Centre For Optimum Health,
> aka the Zen Zero Centre, on Vancouver Island,
> Canada with something like 20 employees---far
> beyond "writing a few books & trying to get a
> movie made". Sounds like an attempt at a
> commercial career move to me.

I didn't miss the chain of event$ either, KFCA.


For those who have...

"Since diagnosed with terminal breast cancer in 2001, Janette Murray-Wakelin and partner Alan, has been on a mission to educate the public on the benefits of raw veganism such as curing cancer and saving the planet."


[rawveganpath.com]

SueZ wrote:
This man makes no dubious cancer cure claims but as to "how to do it right" in delivering a believable presentation to intelligent people in the world in regard to answering the "why to do it" on the subject of raw veganism he's a bar raiser, IMO.

Tai:
I have different standards. The raw vegan bar was raised for me with Richard Schulze, decades ago. Although I feel like he has missed out on the potential of herbalism not knowing Chinese herbology, he did well with what he had and he showed how to use MORE tools not LESS when healing a severe disease. This is what my family used to heal my aunt of ovarian cancer (softball sized tumor) and what my friend used to heal liver cancer and what my uncle used to help my cousin get rid of an asbestos tumor, not to mention lesser cases or the cases that I studied or the man I met who also used the program to heal brain cancer. Since studying his program, I have learned many ways to improve it and better products too. But he definitely raised the bar.

To me, raw veganism is at its finest when it can be used to heal disease. You have a problem with Janette's story when she admits to having initial surgery and a scar to prove it? You can't even believe that? Well, then we can't even begin to talk about Schulze's cases.

Raw veganism can be a lifelong diet, the way Lou Corona has shown (he and Brian still have their original teeth--compare their teeth to the veteran high fruit eaters). Yet, more realistically and more practically, it can be used in a very very particular way in conjunction with other natural healing protocols to heal severe disease. To try to live on the diet for the rest of one's life is a balancing act. To do it right requires a lot of money, and most cannot sustain that. But many can sustain it properly for a couple of years. Arugula made good points about how high fat can cause a raw vegan to have sub optimal levels of certain nutrients. This is where the raw vegan diet has issues in the long run. We have one forum member on this board who lives in Scandanavia and cannot afford vegetables and fruit in the winter, nor does he have space to grow many sprouts. So, for someone like that, the fully raw vegan diet would be a limited diet for disease because of its high price tag, and high fat (majority of calories from fat) does not come into play to heal serious disease UNLESS drastic measures are employed (super probiotics and massive doses of enzymes)--but the price tag just went up pretty high for that.

TO me, the draw of the raw vegan diet is to repair the body and to heal disease. To me, the draw is not living on high fat, as the vegans MDs would agree. I am not criticizing anyone, because some people with more sedentary lifestyles can do well with a higher fat diet.

Since I bring up Schulze, I am reminded that it is pointless for me to continue in this conversation (such as even mentioning his success with AIDs). But just sharing that different people are drawn to the diet for different reasons.

Janette had surgery and a customized IV with a blend of herbs and vitamins that would change, among other things. No one can easily follow such an example. Her book is NOT a how-to cure cancer book or how you can do this at home. She writes of her journey as a patient, not as a health authority.

In this country, one faces problems both selling herbs and teaching how to heal. So, in Schulze's case, he sells his formulas, but one cannot easily buy the secrets of his methods, due to legal oppression. THe authorities came after him in the 90s. So, someone named Sam Biser interviewed him and spread the nuggets that way. Nowadays, there are only a few copies floating around used for sale. THe videos and manuals are some of my prized possessions. I don't like Sam Biser as a health teacher at all (I don't recommend his personal ideas). But the interviews he did with Schulze, called the Save Your Life course (also called the laymen's couse on killing cancer) are excellent, and it is what many have used as their protocol to follow at home.

Before someone attacks this message as dangerous, let me say that IF someone already had this knowledge and knew what to do immediately when their loved one was diagnosed with cancer, they could try the program BEFORE a medical procedure was scheduled to see if there was improvement. THat way, conventional treatment is not abandoned, but if the natural healing is done fast enough, then the conventional MAY not be needed. In any case, these methods will remain vague and out of reach, if no conversation can be had about them due to sky high skepticism.

I once spent time with a sweet man named Star Goeli. He wrote a book called Cancer is Good for You. HE was a cancer researcher and helped a handful of people cure their cancer using natural methods. He wasn't trying to rip people off with his book. He genuinely wanted to save lives. His father died of cancer and he wanted to save others from that kind of pain. So, he actually gave my friend a stack of his books to sell at his store. The catch was that they were a gift!!!!!!!! My friend got to keep all the money. Star just wanted to share a message. Some people's motive in writing a cancer book is simply to help people.

Tai Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Tai:
> I have different standards.


I was not talking about WHAT the man did as terribly exceptional or important - I was talking about HOW he communicated it as opposed to just saying he did something and expecting everyone to believe it like the Aussie running pair did. He said he set a world record and he gave bona fide proof that he did. Giving the proof is the raising of the bar I'm talking about when it comes to raw vegan gurus and wannabe raw vegan gurus.


Not that we don't have different standards in other regards.



> To me, raw veganism is at its finest when it can
> be used to heal disease. You have a problem with
> Janette's story when she admits to having initial
> surgery and a scar to prove it?
You can't even
> believe that? Well, then we can't even begin to
> talk about Schulze's cases.



As I have said before my mother had breast cancer surgery (she was in her late 50's and it had also gone into her lymph glands) and she, too, also did not opt to have radiation or chemo. She ate a terrible SAD diet before she had cancer and she ate an even worse SAD diet after her surgery and has never had a recurrence. She didn't exercise before or after the cancer either. So I know for a fact that sometimes the surgery itself is enough without even eating a decent diet. Janette claims that only going from a vegan diet to a raw vegan diet and running was enough to cure her cancer but that does not mean it is so. Period. Also remember - many many people have scars from surgeries that were not done for the removal of cancers...


>
> TO me, the draw of the raw vegan diet is to repair
> the body and to heal disease. To me, the draw is
> not living on high fat, as the vegans MDs would
> agree. I am not criticizing anyone, because some
> people with more sedentary lifestyles can do well
> with a higher fat diet.


Hey, get at the end of the long line of scolders of those who are on a high fat raw vegan diet if you feel like it. I don't need anyone to hold my hand and go on one with me. I am not one of the thousands of raw vegan guru wannabes. I'm living experimentally and it's working for me. I report on my experiments. I don't know why you brought a high fat raw vegan diet up again just here and now unless you are dragging Tavis back into this, too. Whatever.



> Since I bring up Schulze, I am reminded that it is
> pointless for me to continue in this conversation
> (such as even mentioning his success with AIDs).
> But just sharing that different people are drawn
> to the diet for different reasons.


This again - refer to my first PP for my response. Also as I have said before I am not one interested in diets for running. I won't be running unless a bad guy is chasing me or a tree is about to fall on me. I am on a raw vegan diet for my health and healing. We all can use healing - even you can benefit from going on a raw vegan diet. Why don't you give it a shot and see what happens?


> Janette had surgery and a customized IV with a
> blend of herbs and vitamins that would change,
> among other things. No one can easily follow such
> an example. Her book is NOT a how-to cure cancer
> book or how you can do this at home.



So then her book title is bait and switch.

"Raw Can Cure Cancer"


...In any
> case, these methods will remain vague and out of
> reach, if no conversation can be had about them
> due to sky high skepticism.


Don't be afraid of skepticism. With what I'm eating I have mostly skepticism from every possible direction. So what? It's nothing to be afraid of.

KFCA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, I did realize that J's alleged cure was 14
> years ago, but notice that they also ran a health
> & wellness place at some unknown dates between
> 2001 & now, called the Centre For Optimum Health,
> aka the Zen Zero Centre, on Vancouver Island,
> Canada with something like 20 employees---far
> beyond "writing a few books & trying to get a
> movie made". Sounds like an attempt at a
> commercial career move to me.

thanks for the info , i did not know that.

they have not returned my request for more info. out running, no doubt.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> KFCA Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yes, I did realize that J's alleged cure was 14
> > years ago, but notice that they also ran a
> health
> > & wellness place at some unknown dates between
> > 2001 & now, called the Centre For Optimum
> Health,
> > aka the Zen Zero Centre, on Vancouver Island,
> > Canada with something like 20 employees---far
> > beyond "writing a few books & trying to get a
> > movie made". Sounds like an attempt at a
> > commercial career move to me.
>
> thanks for the info , i did not know that.
>
> they have not returned my request for more info.
> out running, no doubt.


Glad you read KFCA's post and, hopefully, can now understand the bigger picture unfolding in brighter light.

The light they have been aiming for, down yonder, are the klieg lights...



January/February/March 2015
Filming for ‘RAW-The Documentary’
On Location in Australia

*******


30 January-2 February 2015
Brunei
Guest Speakers

*******

17 February 2015
Studio46 Fitness
Melbourne, Australia
Guest Speakers

********

18-23 March 2015
World Vegan Summit
Los Angeles, USA
Speakers

********

13-24 May 2015
Cannes Film Festival France
Screening
‘RAW – The Documentary’

Etc., etc, etc.

she had a tumor taken out
there were multiple smaller tumors that the doctors could not do anything about, and said she would die within a year
she did treatments, wheatgrass, raw food, exercise,etc.
no medical intervention for those other tumors.

either that is true or false.

there is not NECESSARILY any connection, other than in your mind
between the truth of her story, and their current activities

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> she had a tumor taken out
> there were multiple smaller tumors that the
> doctors could not do anything about, and said she
> would die within a year
> she did treatments, wheatgrass, raw food,
> exercise,etc.
> no medical intervention for those other tumors.
>
> either that is true or false.
>
> there is not NECESSARILY any connection, other
> than in your mind
> between the truth of her story, and their current
> activities

Is this something she emailed you? Sooo very vague in the facts department but at least we now know, (if this is what she actually told you or said) that there was more than one doctor. That's something.

.