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Dietary fat and type II diabetes explained
Posted by: Panchito ()
Date: April 09, 2015 07:43PM

[nutritionfacts.org]

Quote

Both prediabetes and type 2 diabetes are caused by insulin resistance. Insulin resistance is now accepted to be closely associated with the accumulation of fat within our muscle cells. This fat toxicity inside of our muscles is a major factor in the cause of insulin resistance and Type 2 diabetes, as it interferes with the action of insulin. I’ve explored how fat makes our muscles insulin resistant, how that fat can come from the fat we eat or the fat we wear, and how not all fats are not the same. It’s the type of fat found predominantly in animal fats, relative to plant fats, that appears to be especially deleterious with respect to fat-induced insulin insensitivity. But this insulin resistance in our muscles starts years before diabetes is diagnosed.

This is a graph of fasting blood sugars in the 13 years prior to the onset of diabetes. Insulin resistance starts over a decade before diabetes is actually diagnosed, as blood sugar levels slowly start creeping up. And then all the sudden the pancreas conks out, and blood sugars skyrocket. What could underlie this relatively rapid failure of insulin secretion?

At first, the pancreas pumps out more and more insulin trying to overcome fat-induced insulin resistance in the muscles, and high insulin levels can lead to the accumulation of fat in liver, called fatty liver disease. Before diagnosis of Type 2 diabetes, there is a long silent scream from the liver. As fat builds up in our liver, it becomes resistant to insulin too.

Normally, the liver is constantly producing blood sugar to keep our brain alive between meals. As soon as we eat breakfast, though, the insulin released to deal with the meal normally turns off liver glucose production, which makes sense since we don’t need it anymore. But filled with fat, the liver becomes insulin resistant like our muscles do and doesn’t respond to the breakfast signal, and so keeps pumping out blood sugar all day long on top of whatever we eat. So the pancreas pumps out even more insulin to deal with the high sugars and our liver gets fatter and fatter. That’s one of the twin vicious cycles of diabetes. Fatty muscles, in the context of too many calories, leads to a fatty liver, which leads to an even fattier liver. This is all still before we have diabetes, but then the next vicious cycle starts.

Fatty liver can be deadly. So the liver starts trying to offload the fat by dumping it back in the bloodstream in the form of something called VLDL and that starts building up in the cells in the pancreas that produce the insulin in the first place. So now we know how diabetes develops. Fatty muscles, lead to a fatty liver, which leads to a fatty pancreas. It is now clear that Type 2 diabetes is a condition of excess fat inside our organs.

The only thing that was keeping us from diabetes, from unchecked skyrocketing blood sugars, is that the pancreas was working overtime pumping out extra insulin to overcome insulin resistance. But as the so-called islet, or Beta cells in the pancreas, are killed off by the fat buildup, insulin production starts to fail, and we’re left with the worst of both worlds, insulin resistance combined with a failing pancreas. Unable to then overcome the resistance, blood sugar levels go up and up and we have Type 2 diabetes.

This has implications for cancer as well. Obesity leads to insulin resistance, and our blood sugars start to go up, so our pancreas starts pumping out more insulin to try to force more sugar into our muscles, and eventually the fat spills over into the pancreas as well, killing off the insulin-producing cells, and we’ve got diabetes, in which case we may have to start injecting insulin at high levels to overcome the insulin-resistance, and these high insulin levels promote cancer. That’s one of the reasons we think obese women get more breast cancer. It all traces back to fat getting into our muscle cells, causing insulin resistance. Fat from our stomach or fat going into our stomach.

Now it should make sense why the American Diabetes Association recommends reduced intake of dietary fat as a strategy for reducing the risk for developing diabetes.

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Re: Dietary fat and type II diabetes explained
Posted by: SueZ ()
Date: April 09, 2015 09:13PM

As ever the Panchito express cut and paste cherry picked fauxfacts dot con manure.

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Re: Dietary fat and type II diabetes explained
Posted by: Panchito ()
Date: April 09, 2015 09:19PM

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As ever the Panchito express cut and paste cherry
> picked fauxfacts dot con manure.

Are you able to engage in coversations without using offensive language? These are the scientific references obtained by clicking on "Sources Cited" Maybe you could tell us how it works.

R L Westley, F E May. A twenty-first century cancer epidemic caused by obesity: the involvement of insulin, diabetes, and insulin-like growth factors. Int J Endocrinol. 2013;2013:632461

Diabetes Care. Standards of Medical Care in Diabetes—2014. American Diabetes Association.

R Taylor. Banting Memorial lecture 2012: reversing the twin cycles of type 2 diabetes. Diabet Med. 2013 Mar;30(3):267-75.

R Taylor. Pathogenesis of type 2 diabetes: tracing the reverse route from cure to cause. Diabetologia. 2008 Oct;51(10):1781-9.

A H Lichtenstein, U S Schwab. Relationship of dietary fat to glucose metabolism. Atherosclerosis. 2000 Jun;150(2):227-43.

E W Kraegen, G J Cooney. Free fatty acids and skeletal muscle insulin resistance. Curr Opin Lipidol. 2008 Jun;19(3):235-41.

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Re: Dietary fat and type II diabetes explained
Posted by: pborst ()
Date: April 09, 2015 09:53PM

fat is definitely a factor in diabetes, no question. It's chewy gum in the insulin lock of putting fat into cells. Saturated fat, long chain saturated like palmetic and stearic acid and myristic acid, not the lauric acid that predominates coconut oil.

Bottom line, Panchito is right. Dr. Greger is right. Why would anyone on a raw vegan forum be eating an animal saturated fat?

IOW I don't understand why there is a conflict. Seems like we all agree on the basics. What am I missing here?

Paul

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Re: Dietary fat and type II diabetes explained
Posted by: suncloud ()
Date: April 11, 2015 03:37AM

It's important not to overlook the following from Panchito's quote (italics are mine):

"It’s the type of fat found predominantly in animal fats, relative to plant fats, that appears to be especially deleterious with respect to fat-induced insulin insensitivity.

I.e., it's the "animal saturated fat" cited by pborst. The evidence does NOT show the same effect from plant-based fats.

And the evidence is substantial. This is very good news for Type 2 Diabetics, who may now be armed with better information for managing and sometimes even reversing their condition.

Unfortunately, Type 2 Diabetics are still sometimes told to eliminate "all" carbohydrates from their diets, while they load up on fatty meats to replace their lost carb calories. Regarding carbs, the recommendation for diabetics is: consistent intake throughout each day.

From the USDA Nutrition Evidence Library (NEL)

"What is the effect of saturated fat (SFA) intake on increased risk of cardiovascular disease or type 2 diabetes, including effects on intermediate markers such as serum lipid and lipoprotein levels?"(DGAC 2010)

"Conclusion
"Strong evidence indicates that dietary saturated fatty acids (SFA) are positively associated with intermediate markers and end-point health outcomes for two distinct metabolic pathways: 1) increased serum total cholesterol (TC) and LDL cholesterol (LDL-C) and increased risk of cardiovascular disease (CVD) and 2) increased markers of insulin resistance and increased risk of type 2 diabetes (T2D). Conversely, decreased SFA intake improves measures of both CVD and T2D risk. The evidence shows that a five percent energy decrease in SFA, replaced by monounsaturated fatty acids (MUFA) or polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA), decreases risk of CVD and T2D in healthy adults and improves insulin responsiveness in insulin resistant and T2D subjects.

"Grade

"Strong"

Reference:
Nel.gov [Internet]. Alexandria (VA): United States Dept. of Agriculture [cited 2014, December 3]. Available from: [www.nel.gov]

Notice that results change when saturated animal fat is replaced with plant-based monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fatty acids.

On the other hand, Dr. Barnard, et al, has conducted highly-rated research finding that Type 2 Diabetes can be reversed on a very low fat vegan diet.

Our cell membranes are made mostly of fatty acids that are supposed to retain a fluid consistency. Too much dietary animal saturated fat can clog up the membranes, alter biochemical processes, and contribute to insulin resistance.

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Re: Dietary fat and type II diabetes explained
Posted by: SueZ ()
Date: April 11, 2015 04:16AM

suncloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On the other hand, Dr. Barnard, et al, has
> conducted highly-rated research finding that Type
> 2 Diabetes can be reversed on a very low fat vegan
> diet.


A very low fat raw vegan diet is EXACTLY what INDUCED a pre diabetic state in me!!! I will NEVER forget my stupidity for listening to the puffed up ignorant gurus of that dietary formula for disaster. Thank God those guru's fifteen minutes of fame is almost up. It just doesn't work for too many people who are then blamed for "doing it wrong" just as the allopathic community blames the patient when IT fails.

I did not get my blood sugar back under control until I went on a high fat low carb raw vegan diet. I am getting increasingly disgusted with the whole cherry picked cooked low fat/rawtill4/fauxfacts.con agenda. It rigged.

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Re: Dietary fat and type II diabetes explained
Posted by: fresh ()
Date: April 11, 2015 04:25AM

>A very low fat raw vegan diet is EXACTLY what INDUCED a pre diabetic state in me!!

you have a serious problem with logic.
low fat raw vegan diet does not induce a diabetic state in many people.

therefore the diet by itself did not induce the state in you.

health is a matter of the state of the body, and the diet, and how the diet is being done.

if it did in you, as you claim, then it was caused by your body, or something wrong like overeating or many other things with what you were doing.

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Re: Dietary fat and type II diabetes explained
Posted by: SueZ ()
Date: April 11, 2015 05:02AM

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >A very low fat raw vegan diet is EXACTLY what
> INDUCED a pre diabetic state in me!!
>
> you have a serious problem with logic.
> low fat raw vegan diet does not induce a diabetic
> state in many people.
>
> therefore the diet by itself did not induce the
> state in you.
>
> health is a matter of the state of the body, and
> the diet, and how the diet is being done.
>
> if it did in you, as you claim, then it was caused
> by your body, or something wrong like overeating
> or many other things with what you were doing.

"Dr." fresh, once again, I tracked everything and had full batteries of lab tests, including lipid panels, that told the tale. The high carb low fat diet was a health disaster for me and many many others. It took a year of eating high fat low carb for all of my lab work to go back within normal parameters - which is where they always were UNTIL the 11 month long hclf experiment.

I lived it. You did not and you don't know anything more of what you are talking about than the puffed up credential free BS gurus you parrot. Your idiotic hot air doesn't fool me, I just hope to God you are not trying to guide people in real life or people will get hurt from your lack of knowledge and common sense. Writing a failed e-book does not make you any kind of authority.

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Re: Dietary fat and type II diabetes explained
Posted by: fresh ()
Date: April 11, 2015 05:18AM

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> "Dr." fresh, once again, I tracked everything and
> had full batteries of lab tests, including lipid
> panels, that told the tale. The high carb low fat
> diet was a health disaster for me and many many
> others. It took a year of eating high fat low carb
> for all of my lab work to go back within normal
> parameters - which is where they always were UNTIL
> the 11 month long hclf experiment.
>

interesting how "powerlifter" said the same thing, but when I asked him, I discovered MANY things causing his issues.

as well as the MANY people i have already told you about who failed to thrive, thinking they're doing everything well enough and THEY were NOT.

apparently i need to repeat myself

> the diet by itself did not induce the
> state in you.
>
>
> if it did in you, as you claim, then it was caused
> by your body, or something wrong like overeating
> or many other things with what you were doing.

that does not mean that I am denying your lab tests, although of course you have not shown anything. lab tests can be interpreted in different ways. just like your misunderstanding about triglycerides and whether high levels are a negative health indicator. mercola abandoned his diet for the same foolish reason. yes i know it was not just triglycerides. nevertheless...


similarly, a like a long time ago brian clement did a test on a raw fooder here and claimed that he had health problems, when a quick review of what brian claimed was off kilter was just brian's bias and ignorance.



> I lived it. You did not and you don't know
> anything more of what you are talking about than
> the puffed up credential free BS gurus you parrot.

your body is/was a MESS ! yes, something happened. you blame the diet.
Logic says NO. bodily state and possible dietary error.
we are not comparing chimps to dogs. you are a human (barely) and many many others successful are human. identify the differences then that cause some to thrive and some not to. that's my point. low fat doesn't CAUSE diabetes!

> Your idiotic hot air doesn't fool me, I just hope
> to God you are not trying to guide people in real
> life or people will get hurt from your lack of
> knowledge and common sense.

no, that would be this guy

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/11/2015 05:20AM by fresh.

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Re: Dietary fat and type II diabetes explained
Posted by: SueZ ()
Date: April 11, 2015 05:26AM

"Dr." Fresh if there is anything worse than a charismatic quack it's a quack who lacks a shred of charisma and tries to diagnose people he has never seen and knows nothing about over the internet. Hey, that's you, little man.

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Re: Dietary fat and type II diabetes explained
Posted by: fresh ()
Date: April 11, 2015 05:29AM

2+2 over the internet is still 4

logic is logic

your story explains Nothing

my "story" gives possible reasons from my research and interviews and physiology.

you often draw conclusions that are unwarranted. i don't trust your quackery.

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Re: Dietary fat and type II diabetes explained
Posted by: SueZ ()
Date: April 11, 2015 05:36AM

Dr. fresh this is quite a new level of pathetic, even for you ...

"my "story" gives possible reasons from my research and interviews and physiology."

Lol.

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Re: Dietary fat and type II diabetes explained
Posted by: fresh ()
Date: April 11, 2015 05:38AM

it's just about 80% pathetic, right?

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Re: Dietary fat and type II diabetes explained
Posted by: Tai ()
Date: April 11, 2015 06:01AM

fresh wrote:
similarly, a like a long time ago brian clement did a test on a raw fooder here and claimed that he had health problems, when a quick review of what brian claimed was off kilter was just brian's bias and ignorance.

Tai:
Do you have a link for this?

Do you have an e-book for sale?

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Re: Dietary fat and type II diabetes explained
Posted by: suncloud ()
Date: April 11, 2015 06:17AM

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>> A very low fat raw vegan diet is EXACTLY what
> INDUCED a pre diabetic state in me!!!

My understanding is that there's currently no verifiable evidence that high carbs/low fat can actually CAUSE the insulin resistance. That's not to say it's impossible. There just isn't any evidence for that at this time (that I'm aware of).

From Nutritional Care of Diabetes, 7th Edition (Joyce Green Pastors, MS,RD,CDE):

"There is ... no scientific evidence that insulin resistance is a result of high-carbohydrate diets...It is increased physical activity, caloric restriction and/or moderate weight loss, and controlling fat intake that have been shown to improve insulin sensitivity..."

That's where the science appears to be right now. Once a person actually HAS diabetes (or prediabetes), there's a much greater risk of abnormal sugar spikes after consuming a high-carb meal.

Of course, raw food diets are completely different from the norm, and there are so far NO high-quality studies conducted for the effects of different raw food diets on diabetes/prediabetes (including Dr. Cousens' experiments, that unfortunately lack adequate controls).

Also worth noting: Weight loss - regardless of the type of diet - can improve insulin sensitivity.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/11/2015 06:22AM by suncloud.

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