how a low fat raw diet can both CURE diabetes
and CAUSE diabetes.

ready, go!

IMO, everyone's different. Things aren't always the way they're supposed to be.

I have a very hard time with greens - any kind, including sprouts - if I eat them everyday. That's not supposed to happen to ANYbody, but it happens to me. Where's the evidence for that? There isn't any, except for what I experience myself.

Everyone's different. The norm doesn't always apply. The flip side is that our own norm may rarely equate to what's true for everyone else.

AND, none of us has ALL the facts.

suncloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IMO, everyone's different. Things aren't always
> the way they're supposed to be.
>
> I have a very hard time with greens - any kind,
> including sprouts - if I eat them everyday.
> That's not supposed to happen to ANYbody, but it
> happens to me. Where's the evidence for that?
> There isn't any, except for what I experience
> myself.
>
> Everyone's different. The norm doesn't always
> apply. The flip side is that our own norm may
> rarely equate to what's true for everyone else.
>
> AND, none of us has ALL the facts.


1. I look forward to Suez answering the specific question that i asked.

2. greens cause issues for me as well, so i kindly reject your assumption. depends on the type of greens, on how they are eaten, on whether your body needs greens at that time, on the growing conditions, pesticides, etc, because greens are NOT ideal foods ! neither are some fruits! should we say that fruits aren't "supposed" to cause problems with anybody? not specific enough.

- we could also say for example, let's say that you are the only one who reacts the way you do (or the number of people who react that way is vanishingly small), that PROVES my point! maybe there is an enzymatic or other issue with your body. now suez will claim that SO MANY other people got pre diabetic on low fat raw - great, prove it and explain it.

3. nevertheless, the question i asked is a bigger question illustrating an issue of logic with respect to a specific ailment that clearly people heal on raw low fat, but suez claims to have gotten prediabetic AND it has NOTHING to do with her body or how she did the diet, thereby anyone who claims otherwise is all kinds of bad things including a zealot when that person is merely pointing out a logical contradiction. during ornish's studies did people both HEAL from heart disease and get WORSE ? no they all healed to varying degrees.

by the way, i can think of 2 reasons to explain your fatigue with greens and 3 reasons to explain suez's issues.

- i think that there are things in greens that may cause fatigue in and of themselves or due to antinutrients causing the body to overwork, and perhaps your diet is so clean that you notice things that others do not notice

- perhaps when you eat greens, your caloric intake dips below your energy needs.

there are other possible reasons depending on how you eat your greens.

your buddy's issues (i only know she said she had/has thyroid and lung problems) could be due to either organic dysfunction (liver/gallbladder working ok but pancreas not)

or cleansing issues at the time causing problem digesting fruit properly

or overeating as i said.


all of these possibilities neither insulting nor critical, and
are more satisfying to me than
"LOW FAT SUCKS and I don't know why and you should try high fat too"

Kale salads are sprouting up on menus everywhere. You can find massaged kale Caesars and kale pulverized in smoothies. This may not be the health food it seems. A daily dose of raw greens may leave you tired and gaining weight.
Leafy greens have many health benefits; they are a rich source of magnesium, carotenoids and other antioxidants. Greens can reduce sugar cravings and energize us. Almost every long-lived culture makes leafy greens a staple.
According to Richard Kunin, MD, a San Francisco medical doctor, raw greens however, contain an undesirable long chain wax on their surface. In nature this protects leaves from predators and UV light, but in your body it appears to block fat from being burned. Not only could this leave you plumper than you’ like, but unusually tired.
I studied with Dr Kunin years ago in San Francisco. His patient mix included wealthy women and the “incurable,” who he usually cured. He noticed a recurring pattern in many of his female patients. Despite healthy diets full of salads and lean meats, many were fatigued and unable to burn fat.
Perplexed, Kunin ran blood tests and found abnormal concentrations of a long chain wax unique to some dark leafy greens. This wax can block L-carnitine from transporting fat into cells where it is burned by the mitochondria for energy. It is found primarily on darker heartier greens such as kale, collards and chard but not the delicate leaves of lettuces.
Furthermore, kale is a cruciferous vegetable. Along with raw broccoli, cabbage and others in this family, kale is well known to interfere with thyroid function, another cause of low energy and weight gain. I’ve had many clients complain to me of low thyroid signs, including fatigue and inability to burn fat. A steady diet of green smoothies and raw broccoli is often a contributor.
The solution is simply to cook these veggies. Cooking dissolves the wax and inactivates the thyroid-blocking property in these veggies. Cooking also makes the vitamins in plants more bio-available. Studies show you end up assimilating more vitamin C when you lightly cook your veggies. As long as you don’t cook them to death, a light cooking leaves vegetables better for you, and usually better-tasting.
Traditional cultures use a variety of cooking methods to enhancing flavor. In Asia greens, such bok choy, gai lan and pea shoots, are stir-fried, braised or cooked into soups. In Brazil, finely shredded kale is commonly sauteed and served with pork. In the Mediterranean, greens are boiled, drained then topped with lemon juice, fresh pressed garlic and olive oil. In the south collards and mustard greens are boiled with ham hocks. I spent years living in France, Spain, Turkey and Greece, dining on a variety of delicious cooked leafy greens, Fortunately I never saw a kale salad.
If you are not losing the weight you want nor have the energy you’d like, consider cooking your kale.

It could be related to damaged metabolic pathways. Some people have dates "buffets" and gain many pounds, 30bananasaday. Ironically, the advice they receive there is to eat more dates to lose weight.

why has Suez gone silent?

this is an old post from suez

SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Now that I have embraced a
> > high sea vegetable diet
>
> Interesting. What amounts of sea vegetables are
> you having on an average day, and what type of sea
> vegetables?

10 grams of the seaweed and a T of chlorella a day. Almost always under 20 grams a day but sometimes more. I rotate them. I have all of these to select from...[www.theseaweedman.com]

It takes a while to work up to this amount. You have to give yourself time for the necessary gut flora to develop and thrive unless you have been eating Oriental foods all along, from what I've read, at least.

It's been almost a year since I started this in conjunction with the Conductivity Diet. It's almost time for my yearly checkup so it will be interesting to see what my lab results have to say about this and my 100% raw 60% raw fat dietary intake.

I'm not recommending anybody do what I'm doing even though I really feel this stuff is working for me. The lab tests will tell their tale. As I have said before I felt bouncing of the walls great on the HCLF diet but it really messed me up and did a lot of damage that I was unaware was occurring. Maybe it's because that while I was on it I was kind of ADD. I can think much more clearly now that I'm not so jumpy.

I have a feeling my Dr.isn't going to be any happier with my new diet than he was with the HCLF one though. I have Hashimotos. It will be an interesting appointment, lol.

------------------------

what's interesting is that sarah wilson also has hashimoto's (i quit sugar book) and low sugar intake worked for her.

[www.sarahwilson.com]


My original contention was to counter Suez's assertion that low fat raw vegan was the sole cause of her prediabetic status. I said there must have been something else going on. Well wouldn't you think that hashimoto's MIGHT have something to do with it? Doesn't that match what I was saying? That it was not INDUCED solely by the diet, but by how the diet was done OR some organic bodily Dysfunction? wouldn't hashimoto's qualify? I have not researched Hashimoto's and diet but Sarah Wilson did better by "quitting sugar" ie lower "simple carbs".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2015 02:52AM by fresh.

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]


Type 2 diabetes mellitus (T2DM) has an intersecting underlying pathology with thyroid dysfunction. The literature is punctuated with evidence indicating a contribution of abnormalities of thyroid hormones to type 2 DM. The most probable mechanism leading to T2DM in thyroid dysfunction could be attributed to perturbed genetic expression of a constellation of genes along with physiological aberrations leading to impaired glucose utilization and disposal in muscles, overproduction of hepatic glucose output, and enhanced absorption of splanchnic glucose. These factors contribute to insulin resistance. Insulin resistance is also associated with thyroid dysfunction. Hyper- and hypothyroidism have been associated with insulin resistance which has been reported to be the major cause of impaired glucose metabolism in T2DM. The state-of-art evidence suggests a pivotal role of insulin resistance in underlining the relation between T2DM and thyroid dysfunction. A plethora of preclinical, molecular, and clinical studies have evidenced an undeniable role of thyroid malfunctioning as a comorbid disorder of T2DM. It has been investigated that specifically designed thyroid hormone analogues can be looked upon as the potential therapeutic strategies to alleviate diabetes, obesity, and atherosclerosis. These molecules are in final stages of preclinical and clinical evaluation and may pave the way to unveil a distinct class of drugs to treat metabolic disorders.

to review the discussion from another thread that prompted this one....

here's some quotes of what i said..


therefore the diet by itself did not induce the state in you.

if it did in you, as you claim, then it was caused by your body, or something
wrong like overeating or many other things with what you were doing.

your body is/was a MESS ! yes, something happened. you blame the diet.
Logic says NO. bodily state and possible dietary error.

And this is the INSANE rant that we got from Suez,
totally ignoring or failing to comprehend what I said,
meanwhile constantly slamming people for allegedly having low comprehension

Suez said


"Dr." fresh, once again, I tracked everything and had full batteries of
lab tests, including lipid panels, that told the tale.
The high carb low fat diet was a health disaster for me and many many others.
It took a year of eating high fat low carb for all of my lab work to go
back within normal parameters - which is where they always were UNTIL
the 11 month long hclf experiment.

I lived it. You did not and you don't know anything more
of what you are talking about than the puf
fed up credential free BS gurus you parrot. Your idiotic
hot air doesn't fool me, I just hope to God you are
not trying to guide people in real life or people will
get hurt from your lack of knowledge and common sense.
Writing a failed e-book does not make you any kind of authority.

Dr." Fresh if there is anything worse than a charismatic quack it's a
quack who lacks a shred of charisma and tries to diagnose people he has
never seen and knows nothing about over the internet.
Hey, that's you, little man.
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Now, WHERE IN THERE IS ANY acknowledgement that I was merely saying that
it was an organ problem or dietary error or both?

and since Suez Has/Had Hashimoto's ,
THAT IS THE ORGANIC DYSFUNCTION THAT it turns out that I WAS REFERRING TO !

Some organ dysfunctions likely heal during a low fat raw diet and some organ dysfunction may not so quickly, or ever and adjustments in dietary sources must be made since certain foods may be handled better than others.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kale salads are sprouting up on menus everywhere.
> You can find massaged kale Caesars and kale
> pulverized in smoothies. This may not be the
> health food it seems. A daily dose of raw greens
> may leave you tired and gaining weight.
> Leafy greens have many health benefits; they are a
> rich source of magnesium, carotenoids and other
> antioxidants. Greens can reduce sugar cravings and
> energize us. Almost every long-lived culture makes
> leafy greens a staple.
> According to Richard Kunin, MD, a San Francisco
> medical doctor, raw greens however, contain an
> undesirable long chain wax on their surface. In
> nature this protects leaves from predators and UV
> light, but in your body it appears to block fat
> from being burned. Not only could this leave you
> plumper than you’ like, but unusually tired.
> I studied with Dr Kunin years ago in San
> Francisco. His patient mix included wealthy women
> and the “incurable,” who he usually cured. He
> noticed a recurring pattern in many of his female
> patients. Despite healthy diets full of salads and
> lean meats, many were fatigued and unable to burn
> fat.
> Perplexed, Kunin ran blood tests and found
> abnormal concentrations of a long chain wax unique
> to some dark leafy greens. This wax can block
> L-carnitine from transporting fat into cells where
> it is burned by the mitochondria for energy. It is
> found primarily on darker heartier greens such as
> kale, collards and chard but not the delicate
> leaves of lettuces.
> Furthermore, kale is a cruciferous vegetable.
> Along with raw broccoli, cabbage and others in
> this family, kale is well known to interfere with
> thyroid function, another cause of low energy and
> weight gain. I’ve had many clients complain to
> me of low thyroid signs, including fatigue and
> inability to burn fat. A steady diet of green
> smoothies and raw broccoli is often a
> contributor.
> The solution is simply to cook these veggies.
> Cooking dissolves the wax and inactivates the
> thyroid-blocking property in these veggies.
> Cooking also makes the vitamins in plants more
> bio-available. Studies show you end up
> assimilating more vitamin C when you lightly cook
> your veggies. As long as you don’t cook them to
> death, a light cooking leaves vegetables better
> for you, and usually better-tasting.
> Traditional cultures use a variety of cooking
> methods to enhancing flavor. In Asia greens, such
> bok choy, gai lan and pea shoots, are stir-fried,
> braised or cooked into soups. In Brazil, finely
> shredded kale is commonly sauteed and served with
> pork. In the Mediterranean, greens are boiled,
> drained then topped with lemon juice, fresh
> pressed garlic and olive oil. In the south
> collards and mustard greens are boiled with ham
> hocks. I spent years living in France, Spain,
> Turkey and Greece, dining on a variety of
> delicious cooked leafy greens, Fortunately I never
> saw a kale salad.
> If you are not losing the weight you want nor have
> the energy you’d like, consider cooking your
> kale.

Cooking is the solution for destructive effect of greens on our health?
Cooking is the problem.
We have problems digesting greens because we destroyed our gut flora for eating processed foods for years.
The solution is to reestablish what we lost, not compound the problem by eating more cooked food.
Once the gut flora is established eating greens or drinking green juices is beneficial.
And there may ways to achieve that using probiotics, fermented foods, intestinal cleanse and many other methods.

I do not eat kale salad or other tough greens, I prefer to juice those type of greens, I eat sprouts, fruits, and seeds. The greens I eat are indoor grown micro greens and there are few day old, soft and digestible.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2015 01:55PM by RawPracticalist.

Hey fresh,

It looks like you SHUT DOWN suez's FRONTAL LOBE!

yes RP i agree - it was posted because i had never heard about this wax thing and i thought it might be relevant to suncloud.

cooking is just their go-to solution for everything i guess.

I guess the space was not reserved for sueZ after all she has not responded.

why a person may not respond-

it is like walking into a lion's lair

some people just may want to take a little respite from wrestling with lions every single day ...

everyone needs a break from such activities

even suez

Well put.
sueZ is very smart.
The lion may go hungry for a long time.
Which may not good for society
Because the lion has to eat.
A problem with no solution.

hungry lion
waiting for prey
hungry lion
got no food today
oh no..what will hungry lion eat?

it looks at its own feet
with a little ketchup and mustard
its really hard to beat!

bon appetit

But the zebras, giraffes, antelope, and wildebeests are hiding and holding their breath,
hoping for the lion not to find food and die.
So that they can live and multiple.
And the lion is weak, about to die.
No wait he found food.

Suez ain't bitin, maybe change your bait...

NuNativs on YouTube...

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> how a low fat raw diet can both CURE diabetes
> and CAUSE diabetes.
>
> ready, go!


I am sure there are scientific studies that support both claims.

A is both A and non A

not biting because the answer
circles back to the original point
which is dietary error or organic dysfunction

yo...raw practicalist... that pic of the lion tearing into the wildebeest

whoahh.... at least it earns its food...but...

"another one bites the dust" !!!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2015 11:14PM by coconutcream.

Silence is always the best answer

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2015 01:44AM by coconutcream.