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Fresh and others - greens?
Posted by: suncloud ()
Date: April 12, 2015 03:22AM

Just wondering if anyone else has issues from eating greens. I thought I might be the only one, but maybe there are others (?).

If anyone else has these issues, I'd like to learn more from you.

For me, symptoms include stomach noise, fatigue, dry skin, swollen eyes, and temporary weight gain. This happens with all kinds of greens, including baby greens/lettuces, microgreens, even fresh cilantro and parsley, and even cultured greens (although culturing helps a little). Cooking/steaming makes the symptoms far worse.

I'm OK to eat greens every few days or so. I've noticed I'm better off if I have some greens infrequently, than if I never have any.

I have no problems with fruits, including the "vegetable" fruits like tomatoes, cucumbers, peppers, avocados, etc. Also, I have no problems with seaweeds.

Anyone else have similar issues? If so, why do you think this is, and what do you do about it?

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Re: Fresh and others - greens?
Posted by: fresh ()
Date: April 12, 2015 12:58PM

suncloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

nobody has responded, so i guess you are the only one !

> Just wondering if anyone else has issues from
> eating greens. I thought I might be the only one,
> but maybe there are others (?).
>
> If anyone else has these issues, I'd like to learn
> more from you.
>

the only things i have had are weird sensations from eating spinach and irritation from more bitter greens. that's all that i can recall right now.


> For me, symptoms include stomach noise, fatigue,
> dry skin, swollen eyes, and temporary weight gain.
> This happens with all kinds of greens, including
> baby greens/lettuces, microgreens, even fresh
> cilantro and parsley, and even cultured greens
> (although culturing helps a little).

(i don't know why people consider cilantro and parsley foods in the first place)

you are right, that is a large array of symptoms.

a couple of your symptoms seem a bit strange to me, that you can notice weight gain from a few greens? seems very hard to believe unless you're increasing your water intake simultaneously.

i would suggest that sometimes we think we know the source of our symptoms but we are not correct. so just be careful that you're being objective.

if you are correct with the causation you have proposed the only thing i can think of is allergy, which does exist for greens, especially if you're talking about just a small amount of greens. or lacking intestinal flora that is necessary?


can you name the specific greens that you are talking about?

are you talking about chewing greens only?

do you eat them alone?

do you eat fruit first? together? after?

do you ever blend? if you are not averse to blending, what happens when you blend greens with bananas?


> Cooking/steaming makes the symptoms far worse.
>
> I'm OK to eat greens every few days or so. I've
> noticed I'm better off if I have some greens
> infrequently, than if I never have any.

i was wondering what you meant by this. you feel better somehow with a small amount as compared to all fruit?

>
> I have no problems with fruits, including the
> "vegetable" fruits like tomatoes, cucumbers,
> peppers, avocados, etc. Also, I have no problems
> with seaweeds.
>
> Anyone else have similar issues? If so, why do you
> think this is, and what do you do about it?

maybe something in here make sense to you?

[www.rightdiagnosis.com]

[poorandglutenfree.blogspot.com]

[health.usnews.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2015 01:06PM by fresh.

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Re: Fresh and others - greens?
Posted by: Utopian Life ()
Date: April 12, 2015 01:53PM

Hi, I have questions too. what else are you eating with your greens? When did this start?

can you do green juices or greens powders?

I'm sorry you're having this problem, though. sad smiley

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Re: Fresh and others - greens?
Posted by: fresh ()
Date: April 12, 2015 02:04PM

[www.waiworld.com]

[www.waiworld.com]

i am not saying i agree with everything this person says.
just information for you to accept or reject as you wish.

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Re: Fresh and others - greens?
Posted by: CommonSenseRaw ()
Date: April 12, 2015 04:03PM

So i guess the only thing safe to eat is not eating. Vegetables are bad seeds are bad. Only fasting is safe. The breathrarian population is growing fast

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Re: Fresh and others - greens?
Posted by: Tai ()
Date: April 12, 2015 07:14PM

Suncloud, I just want to share a few thoughts. I am not trying to sell Chinese medicine, but just offering another perspective to get you to broaden your thinking. There are so many different digestive tonics in Chinese medicine that whatever the problems is, one can take an herbal formula and it can help with digestion. Greens in general can have more of a "damp" and cold quality, and herbs can dispel the dampness and cold in the digestive organs. Greens also belong to the wood element and the wood element can overact on the earth element, thereby stressing the digestive organs. So there are formulas that balance the wood and earth elements (the liver and gallbladder, spleen, stomach and pancreas, etc. THis is part of the five element theory.).

I have mixed feelings about digestive enzymes, because in my own body, I have experienced side effects when taking them improperly. I even read some side effects in some people from taking hydrochloric acid. Yet, herbs are pretty harmless when you are taking the right formula. THey are not going to damage your tissue, the way enzymes and acid can.

The reason I think of herbs for you is because you once mentioned on the forum that
1) you suffered from a serious condition that fasting did not correct
2) you have long term issues with eating cooked food
3) you have issues with eating greens
4) you mentioned even other food issues, as well

John Rose healed his colon and was able to eat cooked food after that without any problem. Of course, he is a strict raw foodist as this is the superior diet that he chooses to eat, but he was able to correct his body so that cooked food wouldn't damage his colon the way it did in the past. In your case, you have an ongoing digestive issues with many foods.

I agree that raw food is the superior diet, but you seem very reactive to so many foods that normally don't react that way in many people.

I have given digestive formulas to chemo patients and it stopped their vomiting. One lady had a weak digestive system ever since she had hepatitis A. Digestive enzymes were so-so for her and they didn't really help. But the chinese herbs helped her. THis was an eye-opening case for me, because I witnessed the rather weak effects of enzymes compared to the herbs in such a chronic case. I have given formulas to people with digestive problems as a result of having their gallbladders removed. THe herbs help with nausea, low appetite, loose stools, undigested food in the stools, acid regurgitation, etc, etc. One big thing is people who mess up their stomachs from chronic pain pill use. I have helped many people with ulcers and weak digestion from the pain pills. I have given a variety of these formulas to so many over the years and they always help. Chinese herbs are more sophisticated than western herbs for digestion.

I am not soliciting any potential customers with my plug for Chinese medicine. My plate is full. I can't take on anymore than I already have. But what I am suggesting is that if you can find a competent Chinese herbalist in your area, the formulas cost between $6 - $30, which is not expensive and it can improve your digestion. If a person gets familiar with the names of the formulas, they might even find a cheap version in Chinatown for $3-$4 a bottle. (those teapills do not compare to a fresh tea or quadruple-tested extract, but sometimes are better than nothing.) If you still have that other health issue, different herbs can also help that.

Also, are you always trying certified organic greens? Pesticides can cause severe problems in sensitive people. Also, is it possible you have stored toxins in your body? For example, PCBs can stay 10 years in the body and interfere with the thyroid (and weight gain can ensue).

People have differing views on water, but the only water that has really improved my health is distilled water. I would never drink distilled water out of a plastic container. I make it myself and it drips into a glass container. Even when tap water is run through a water purifier and then distilled, I still taste the toxins from the tap, so I only drink distilled spring water. To me, distilled spring water really helps clean the body. Maybe this is redundant information for you, but to me, water is the first thing to get right when trying to detox. The addition of organic lemon juice to the water can be healing at times. And then, a minor question is how do you wash your greens? Are you using purified water to rinse them or are you using tap water?

The last thing I will say is that greens can be so different. Consider chard and beet greens are salty, comfrey greens are also a bit salty. Kale and collards are slightly bitter. Arugula and cilantro are pungent. Peppermint and spearmint are both cooling and pungent. My point is that greens are slightly different from each other and will have different effects in the body. Comfrey greens stand way higher in their ability to heal and mend compared to other common greens. Herbs in general have more minerals than bigger leafy greens. Also, to me, eating lettuce is a far different experience from drinking fresh lettuce juice. Have you compared the difference? I would also be surprised if you had any negative reaction to special drinks that I make with comfrey leaves, both in smoothie and juice form--because these drinks (especially the juice) start repairing damage right away. In fact, that is one green that I would highly recommend to grow.

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Re: Fresh and others - greens?
Posted by: suncloud ()
Date: April 13, 2015 10:21AM

Thanks everyone for your expressions of concern and your suggestions!

fresh wrote:
"nobody has responded, so i guess you are the only one !"

Yes. Oh well (sigh). That's probably a good thing!

"a couple of your symptoms seem a bit strange to
me, that you can notice weight gain from a few
greens? seems very hard to believe unless you're
increasing your water intake simultaneously.

Just a couple!? I know. It's very strange. I think I'm retaining water after eating greens. My water intake is consistent with and without the greens.

"i would suggest that sometimes we think we know
the source of our symptoms but we are not correct.
so just be careful that you're being objective.

"if you are correct with the causation you have
proposed the only thing i can think of is allergy,
which does exist for greens, especially if you're
talking about just a small amount of greens. or
lacking intestinal flora that is necessary?"

"can you name the specific greens that you are
talking about?"

I take a good probiotic nearly everyday, and it definitely seems to help with some symptoms - though not entirely effective. Typically, a probiotic and B12 are the only supplements I take.

Specific greens? ALL of them. That would be very rare indeed for an allergy. And the symptoms I've described are not typical allergy symptoms.

I think I may have something called "post-infectious IBS". That's IBS occurring after infection by a parasite. I had a monster parasite several years ago that nearly killed me. I probably had it for over a decade before it was finally accurately diagnosed. At the acute phase, eating any greens or vegetable would cause me to throw up almost immediately. And eating anything else (except fruit) would cause major stomach pain. I was also having symptoms of nerve damage. So what I have going now is minor in comparison!


"are you talking about chewing greens only?"

"do you eat them alone?"

"do you eat fruit first? together? after?"

"do you ever blend? if you are not averse to
blending, what happens when you blend greens with
bananas?"

Doesn't make any difference how they're consumed. Same symptoms. Weird. I know.

To clarify, I rarely have just all fruit on any given day. I usually have fruits, a variety of seeds and some seaweed - fresh seaweed if available. The major issues occur if I try to eat (land) greens every day - even just a very small quantity. Otherwise, I'm OK, and I've learned to incorporate some coping mechanisms. For example, regular exercise allows me to eat greens more often. Two full 36 hour water fasts per week allows me to actually eat greens everyday, but I've found that schedule too intense for compatibility with exercise and work. One day of fasting/week is better, and then I can eat greens two or three days a week - if I'm exercising regularly. Seaweed is OK everyday.

I've often experimented with not eating greens at all; but after several days, I get HUNGRY, and somewhat less regular. Despite the claims of waiworld, there must be nutrients unique to greens that my body needs.

Thanks fresh. You're appreciated, as always!


Utopian wrote:

"Hi, I have questions too. what else are you eating with your greens? When did this start?

Doesn't matter what they're eaten with (or without). Same symptoms, starting about 25 years ago. I was spending a lot of time in my garden. I would come inside everyday at lunch and have a salad (fresh organic, just havested from my garden - which by the way was planted in a virgin rainforest). I began to notice feeling very tired after lunch. My son was in college at the time, and I remember him visiting and saying I looked very tired. Symptoms progressed from there. I was diagnosed with an ameba several years later, as I mentioned above.

"can you do green juices or greens powders?"

I don't use my juicer, but I had wheatgrass juice several years ago and immediately felt a flush of fatigue literally washing over me. Powders also are very difficult.

"I'm sorry you're having this problem, though. sad smile"

Really, it's not so bad. More inconvenient than anything else. On the positive side, it's made me really appreciate the food I get to eat!! Thank you though for the sentiment! smiling smiley

CommonSenseRaw wrote:

"So i guess the only thing safe to eat is not eating. Vegetables are bad seeds are bad. Only fasting is safe. The breathrarian population is growing fast"

LOL CSR. I don't agree that vegetables are bad or seeds are bad (I eat lots of seeds in fact, with no problem whatsoever). Please be assured that this issue with greens is hardly universal. And I'm not a breatharian. I don't believe anyone is. What this has taught me is to have tolerance with other people's food choices.

Tai wrote:

The reason I think of herbs for you is because you once mentioned on the forum that
1) you suffered from a serious condition that fasting did not correct
2) you have long term issues with eating cooked food
3) you have issues with eating greens
4) you mentioned even other food issues, as well

Hi Tai, and thanks for spending so much time on this!

Regarding #4, I'm not sure what other food issues you might be referring to - at least not any that apply at this time. So let's drop #4, if you don't mind. smiling smiley (enough already!)

Really, I think I have post-infectious IBS (mentioned above). It's the only thing I've found so far that seems plausible. Regarding the Chinese herbs though, you may be right. Seeing a Chinese herbalist might possibly be helpful.

I have a very good local naturopath who sent me for several lab tests, all of which came out fine. She was very supportive of my fasting twice per week and suggested I have coconut water on fasting days to keep up electrolytes. I'm changing my schedule though and haven't yet tried her suggestion.

When I had the ameba (mentioned above), I did find a Chinese herb that eliminated my stomach pain for several hours after each dose. I could never find the herb again though, and I can't remember what it was. This was before I was diagnosed. When the ameba symptoms became acute, my regular (conventional) doctor wasn't able to diagnose it for some time, so I visited a Chinese herbalist. Unfortunately, he didn't diagnose it correctly either. He had me doing muscle-pulling to test for allergies and gave me a variety of dried mushrooms and herbs that didn't help at all. I'll find someone else next time!


"Also, are you always trying certified organic greens? Pesticides can cause severe problems in sensitive people. Also, is it possible you have stored toxins in your body? For example, PCBs can stay 10 years in the body and interfere with the thyroid (and weight gain can ensue)."

I always only eat certified organic greens. For many years, I grew all my own, and our farm was certified organic. The naturopath had my thyroid tested, and it's normal.

Regarding water, it comes from my roof and runs through our own purifying system. I wash my fruits in it and drink it all the time with no problem. The issue is with the greens.

As for the differences in greens, yes I know. This is definitely what seems so very weird. But the issue is with ALL greens. There must be something common to them all. In fact, we know there is, since they're not classified the same as fruits, for instance. But I have no idea what specific common factor has this effect on me.

As I mentioned above though, greens are fine for me if I just don't eat them everyday, fast once a week, and exercise. There are many other much more major problems that people unfortunately have to contend with. And who knows, maybe some herb will help. Meanwhile, I'm good.

About comfrey: did you know it's no longer available commercially for oral use in the US and many European countries? According to the website below, it contains pyrrolizidine alkaloids that may cause liver damage. It's still available in creams and ointments. Actually, I did have an allergic reaction to allantoin (another component of comfrey), many, many years ago from a product I was using on my skin. I probably won't be swallowing it any time soon, but I understand it's an herb that's traditionally used for stomach ailments.


[umm.edu]

Just to briefly mention: I love the flavor of greens. I like the bitter ones, the pungent ones, the sweet ones - whatever. I think I love them all the more because I don't get to eat them everyday. But then I love fruits, nuts, seeds, and seaweeds too. I guess I just like food a lot.

Thank you for your suggestions. When I have some time to experiment, I might visit another Chinese herbalist. I wish I could remember the herb that helped me so many years ago when I was very sick.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2015 10:34AM by suncloud.

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Re: Fresh and others - greens?
Posted by: fresh ()
Date: April 13, 2015 03:12PM

that is some freaky stuff suncloud.
thanks for sharing and glad you're managing so well.

by the way, wouldn't oxalates be a common causative?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2015 03:17PM by fresh.

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Re: Fresh and others - greens?
Posted by: fresh ()
Date: April 13, 2015 04:00PM

no, oxalates don't seem to match your symptoms.
neither does a parasitic infection.

so your own diagnosis may be the only plausible one.

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Re: Fresh and others - greens?
Posted by: Panchito ()
Date: April 13, 2015 05:57PM

maybe it is the insoluble fiber

[www.livestrong.com]

[www.google.com]

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Re: Fresh and others - greens?
Posted by: suncloud ()
Date: April 13, 2015 08:41PM

Thanks Panchito.

Good theory, but no. Fruits high in insoluble fiber are no problem for me, and I thrive on them. These include apples, avocados, oranges, bananas, and especially guavas (which grow wild where I live).

Also, another IBS diet - the so-called FODMAP diet - is not consistently effective for IBS; although for some people, it is. Both IBS and infectious IBS have been associated with varying food sensitivities and intolerances.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2015 08:46PM by suncloud.

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Re: Fresh and others - greens?
Posted by: RawPracticalist ()
Date: April 13, 2015 09:01PM

>When the intestines cannot break down a food, gas is produced. Insoluble fiber cannot be broken down.
So why do we need insoluble fiber?

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Re: Fresh and others - greens?
Posted by: Kiwibird ()
Date: April 14, 2015 12:04AM

For what it's worth (just my personal experience)-

Before I went raw, I admittedly did not eat many greens as they typically upset my stomach. After dedicating myself to maintaining at least 80% raw in my diet, I began incorporating more greens (specifically romaine, kale and spinach) into my diet via daily green smoothies (as a meal). They seemed to cause pretty unpleasant digestive issues and cramping shortly after consuming. I took this to be a result of never having ate much of them in the past (also a possible detox type reaction, as I was having a lot of detox symptoms at that time from the dietary change). After a few weeks, those symptoms seemed to subside as my body became 'used' to the increased intake (my logical guess, no real 'evidence' to support that). I have not had any issues in several months and eat at least one (of not all 3) of those varieties daily. Since probiotics were brought up, I have been taking Garden of Life Primal defense for years.

Also, it may be beneficial to be allergy tested to see if your allergic. Just because an allergy is rare doesn't mean anything. I'm allergic to coconut, have been since childhood, still am to this day. I'm not allergic to tree nuts, just coconut.

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Re: Fresh and others - greens?
Posted by: suncloud ()
Date: April 14, 2015 12:42AM

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >When the intestines cannot break down a food, gas
> is produced. Insoluble fiber cannot be broken
> down.
> So why do we need insoluble fiber?

"Insoluble fiber won’t dissolve in water but is just as important to overall health and well being as soluble fiber. We can further classify insoluble fiber into two types: fermentable and non-fermentable. Non-fermentable insoluble fiber is known primarily as a bulking agent, and consuming adequate insoluble fiber keeps people regular. Fermentable insoluble fiber — such as resistant starch —produces the same healthy gases and acids in the large intestine that soluble fiber does. One important difference between the two types of fibers is that soluble fiber tends to slow digestion while insoluble fiber speeds it up.

[www.prebiotin.com]

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Re: Fresh and others - greens?
Posted by: suncloud ()
Date: April 14, 2015 01:31AM

Hi Kiwi,

Sorry about your allergy to coconut. I've read about it, and yes it's very rare!

I use the Garden of Life probiotics too. Mine is the "Women 50 and Wiser". Garden of Life probiotics were tested by ConsumerLabs.com, and the product really does have what it claims to have. Good company!

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Re: Fresh and others - greens?
Posted by: Tai ()
Date: April 14, 2015 01:43AM

Suncloud wrote:
I did find a Chinese herb that eliminated my stomach pain for several hours after each dose. I could never find the herb again though, and I can't remember what it was.

Tai:
If you took one herb only, then it might have been this one:
Mu xiang (Aucklandia lappa root)

But usually we combine this herb into a formula. I have used the following formula for people with pain in their stomach and subsequent nausea or low appetite:
Mu xiang shun qi wan:
Dang gui, Hou po, Mu xiang, Cao dou kou, Cang zhu, Yi zhi ren, Ze xie, Qing pi, Wu zhu yu, Gan jiang, Chen pi, Fu ling, Ban xia, Sheng ma, Chai hu

TCM Functions Regulates Qi in the Middle Jiao, Moves Liver Qi, Descends Stomach Qi, Eliminates Food Stagnation, Drains Dampness
Contraindicated for patients with significant Qi or Yin deficiency, as this formula strongly disperses Qi and dries damp. Caution when used alone for patients with significant Spleen Qi deficiency.

Tai: the contraindications sound scary, but the fact is that most people take this as tea pills, which are pretty mild compared to a strong tea, so I have never seen anyone experience the side effects listed here, especially because I have only given it to people who had some kind of discomfort or pain, plus they usually don't need more than one bottle here and there.

Well, it sounds like pain or discomfort is a thing of the past for you, so this formula may no longer apply.

One nice formula that balances the liver and stomach to a degree is Shu Gan San/Tang/Wan. If you were working with an herbalist, you could bring up this formula or a similar formula. It is worth trying at least once with more digestive herbs to see if it would help. The concept is that if you get rid of some stagnation in the liver and gallbladder, your body might not react so strongly to added greens.

Just a suggestion if you ever run across someone competent. It is worth trying only if a person has good experience in this area.

Were there any lessons about the amoeba that you care to share? Any warnings that you can pass along?

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Re: Fresh and others - greens?
Posted by: la_veronique ()
Date: April 14, 2015 03:20AM

I guess I am extremely lucky in that I never had any allergies to greens. ( thank goodness!!)

I do know however, a few people who are not capable of eating greens. One has IBS,the other has allergies etc.

Tai, or anyone else..

How would I treat a friend who went into an anaphylactic shock and could not breathe due to being allergic to greens ( or any other foods). Some people die within minutes so there is no point in waiting half an hour for the ambulance ( or an hour or more for the doctors ) to see the person. I was wondering if there are things that could be done that were natural. Like, for example...cayenne pepper has been known to be effective when people are having a heart attack. Is there anything other than epipnehprine and a slew of over the counter medications that could powerfully, quickly and immediately benefit someone who might stop breathing due to their food allergies?


I would like to help someone even if they are having a reaction to a bee sting...
but something more natural than medications. Then again, if it is life threatening..then...better to have medications tostay alive... but say.. I don't know which medication to give someone. Some people could even be allergic to the medications so I think that something natural might be good to have around that is equally effective.

Any one out there who would know?

I think this is very important to discuss esp. for people with food allergies.

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Re: Fresh and others - greens?
Posted by: jtprindl ()
Date: April 14, 2015 07:46PM

I think you'd get way more of your money's worth if you ate Kim Chi instead of using probiotic supplements. The Kim Chi I use has 46 billion CFU per gram and there are 400 grams per jar. It's very enzyme and probiotic rich so using some on top of green salads may help. Using aloe vera gel, chlorella and peppermint oil can help repair the gut and provide relief. You may also want to consider using digestive enzymes with greens to see if you get positive results.

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Re: Fresh and others - greens?
Posted by: brome ()
Date: April 14, 2015 10:26PM

A possible help would be to juice all the greens and vegetables and drink the juice early in the morning several hours before eating anything else. And go as many days as possible without any greens whatsoever. If your metabolic systems for handling protein are functioning well you would be able to go without for an extended period. If not you need the more frequent intake. Eventually the healthy metabolic capabilities will awaken though.

Here's a link to a similar problem on 30bananas:


[www.30bananasaday.com]

ps - be aware that there is some really bad advice on 30bad

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Re: Fresh and others - greens?
Posted by: brome ()
Date: April 14, 2015 10:42PM

Grass juice is the very best source of green nutrition. From the grains, wheat, barley, rye, etc to the wild grasses (very good tasting), they're all way better than the other greens. I've never tried sugar cane or bamboo but they may be good too. Pandas sure do well on bamboo.

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Re: Fresh and others - greens?
Posted by: Tai ()
Date: April 14, 2015 11:04PM

To Suncloud,
I talked to a well studied CHinese herbalist today, TIna Chen, and she said a study validated the following formula for IBS, listed below:

Her company sells this formula as GI Harmony (Evergreen Herbs--you can ask your local herbalist to consider it, if you ever get to that point.). When I have time, I will post the study. SHe never heard of your sensitivity before, but thought one bottle would be worth a try. I will see one of my teachers later this year, and one of his specialties is parasites and he is well studied on amoebas. I will ask him what formulas are good in your post infectious condition.

Ingredients

Yin Chen (Herba Artemisiae Scopariae)
Bai Zhu (Rhizoma Atractylodis Macrocephalae)
Yi Yi Ren (Semen Coicis)
Dang Shen (Radix Codonopsis)
Bai Shao (Radix Paeoniae Alba)
Chai Hu (Radix Bupleuri)
Che Qian Zi (Semen Plantaginis)
Dang Gui (Radix Angelicae Sinensis)
Fu Ling (Poria)
Hou Po (Cortex Magnoliae Officinalis)
Huang Bo (Cortex Phellodendri)
Huang Lian (Rhizoma Coptidis)
Huo Xiang (Herba Agastaches/Pogostemonis)
Chuan Mu Xiang (Radix Vladimiriae)
Pao Jiang (Rhizoma Zingiberis Praeparatum)
Qin Pi (Cortex Fraxini)
Wu Wei Zi (Fructus Schisandrae)
Zhi Gan Cao (Rx/Rz Glycyrrhizae Praeparata)
Bai Zhi (Radix Angelicae Dahuricae)
Bo He (Herba Menthae)
Chen Pi (Pericarpium Citri Reticulatae)
Fang Feng (Radix Saposhnikoviae)

TCM Functions

Spreads Liver qi
Tonifies Spleen qi
Promotes digestion

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Re: Fresh and others - greens?
Posted by: Tai ()
Date: April 14, 2015 11:43PM

La V wrote:
Tai, or anyone else..

How would I treat a friend who went into an anaphylactic shock and could not breathe due to being allergic to greens ( or any other foods). Some people die within minutes so there is no point in waiting half an hour for the ambulance ( or an hour or more for the doctors ) to see the person. I was wondering if there are things that could be done that were natural.

Tai:
Lobelia inflata is an herb that can dilate the bronchioles and act a substitute for an inhaler and works great for asthma. People who were dying of asthma have been saved by it. The stories of those who used it for this are very intense. ANother day for those stories. As a tincture in a base of apple cider vinegar, it is very intense and works in seconds. But I don't think it would be strong enough for anaphylactic shock, although it should be used in combination with other things, if you would try natural. I have used it a lot in asthma cases and it is very very effective, but if you keep giving it over and over (say more than 3 teaspoons in 20 minutes or more), it is an emetic and will cause vomiting. So it has a built-in maximum dosage. In asthma cases, the emetic action will cause the expulsion of built-up phlegm and fluids. But this is not what you want in anaphylatic shock. So, just a little lobelia would help, but it's not enough. I would use acupuncture, but that doesn't help you.

Lou Corona said he or his clients used amylase in the past to deal with sensitivity to bee stings. So, when someone was stung, I think they used the equivalent of 40 capsules of amylase (I believe they were emptied out of the capsule.) and it helped heal the sting, whereas normally it would have been a serious condition. Lou is a big believer in using enzymes to treat allergies.

I have no idea if it works, but I know two people who use NAET to treat allergies in people. I also have a homeopath teacher who claims to treat allergies. But homeopathy and NAET would have to be used months before an allergic exposure. They couldn't be used as an emergency measure.

I have treated hay fever and dust allergies very successfully in people, but I never treated a true food allergy (as opposed to sensitivities, which are very common.) But herbalist John Christopher claimed that people on his incurables program and diet were able to heal true food allergies over time. I remember one case of a woman who was allergic to strawberries was eventually able to eat them using his protocols.

La V, I think the person with the true allergy should carry their medicine on their body at all times, and there should be a note for any concerned citizen on how to administer this medicine. Some people have been sued for giving emergency help to other people. That's the kind of litigious world we live in. If you are hanging out with a friend who has a true allergy, ask them for a protocol. Don't leave it to chance.

p.s you mentioned cayenne. REally hot fresh raw peppers can help the throat. Peppers are considered to be counter-irritants. They can actually decrease inflammation. If I had anaphylactic shock (in which the throat closes up), I would take some lobelia and some fresh raw super hot pepper. These are two things to keep in an herbal first aid kit.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2015 11:54PM by Tai.

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Re: Fresh and others - greens?
Posted by: CommonSenseRaw ()
Date: April 14, 2015 11:56PM

The bigger question is why do they have allergies. Is there a way to turn them back to a non allergy state? Or some of us are made that way?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2015 11:59PM by CommonSenseRaw.

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Re: Fresh and others - greens?
Posted by: la_veronique ()
Date: April 15, 2015 05:33AM

wow Tai

thanks a LOTTTTT!!!!!


very very helpful information. I really do appreciate it.

I will keep your notes in my files.

thanks again.

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Re: Fresh and others - greens?
Posted by: suncloud ()
Date: April 15, 2015 09:21AM

Hi Tai.

I found everything you wrote to be very interesting, and especially this:

Tai Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > The concept is
> that if you get rid of some stagnation in the
> liver and gallbladder, your body might not react
> so strongly to added greens.

Yes, I think that's it. Added greens. There's something my body is reacting to, and it's not dealing with it quickly enough to take on more greens everyday. There's a liver delay. I don't know why I'd have to detox from greens in the first place, but if something could speed up the process, that would be helpful.

I'd like to try your friend's suggestion for the GI Harmony from Evergreen Herbs, and I intend to ask my naturopath if she will order it for me. If you learn anything more from your teacher, I will be happy to hear of it.

Thank you Tai!

> > Were there any lessons about the amoeba that you
> care to share? Any warnings that you can pass
> along?

Well, mainly to anyone who begins to have any severe and consistent stomach issues: please get tested through a reliable lab, specifically for parasites/amoebas (there are 2 acceptable spellings - "ameba" and "amoeba" ). My understanding is that the longer a person has a parasite infection, the greater the risk for post-infectious IBS.

Also, when hiking/camping, etc., boil and purify your water. And always wash your produce, and wash hands before eating.

Jtprindl, thank you for your suggestions. Yes, I'm a big fan of cultured foods, but these have not helped significantly. Unfortunately, neither have aloe vera, chlorella, peppermint, or enzymes.

Brome, thank you for sharing your positive attitude! "Eventually the healthy metabolic capabilities will awaken..."



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2015 09:30AM by suncloud.

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Re: Fresh and others - greens?
Posted by: Utopian Life ()
Date: April 15, 2015 04:05PM

Sorry if you covered this, but can you do rare(r) greens like katuk?

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Re: Fresh and others - greens?
Posted by: suncloud ()
Date: April 16, 2015 12:12AM

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry if you covered this, but can you do rare(r)
> greens like katuk?

Hello Utopian!

I didn't know what katuk was until I looked it up. It's a wild green. I've never seen it here, but the growing climate seems about perfect.

I haven't thoroughly experimented with wild greens. I've eaten them, and there are many here; but I haven't used them in any kind of elimination trial to see if they're OK. I will try this. We have lots of Shepherd's Purse here and also a plant called honu honu grass ("honu" is "turtle" ). It looks like a houseplant called "Wandering Jew", except it's all green instead of purple. It grows everywhere here, and it's considered medicinal. I sometimes split the pulpy stem and use it for bandages on cuts.

Here's a honu honu grass story:

For a few days I was eating blended banana/chia/carob powder pudding in the morning for breakfast. It tasted good! At about the 3rd or 4th day, a friend of my husband's came to the door. After a short chat with the friend, I went to use the bathroom, and I saw that my whole face was swollen up huge like a watermelon! Oh my gosh, no wonder the friend was looking at me a little funny!

Powders (like carob powder) don't work well for me.

I went and picked some honu honu grass and ate it. Within 15 minutes, the swelling was completely gone.

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Re: Fresh and others - greens?
Posted by: Tai ()
Date: April 16, 2015 01:29AM

Suncloud wrote:
I'd like to try your friend's suggestion for the GI Harmony from Evergreen Herbs, and I intend to ask my naturopath if she will order it for me.

Tai
If your naturopath can't order from them, then call the company and see if there is an acupuncturist/herbalist in your area that works with this company. They heavily test their herbs.

[www.evherbs.com]
17431 East Gale Ave
City of Industry, CA 91748
Tel: 626-810-5530 Toll-Free Tel: 866-473-3697 (GREEN97)
Fax: 626-810-5534 Toll-Free Fax: 866-473-3698 (GREEN98)

Just a note about comfrey...it is heavily demonized. I think someone once ate the root powder daily for a year and had a problem, but who knows what else that person was doing. The root has more alkaloids than the leaves. It takes a long time to grow a nice big plant, but when that happens, the juice of the leaves is so healing. Anyway, most people would only use the root when they are trying heal a broken bone and not just take it daily forever. The leaves are what is a more staple food. Plus, in the winter, there are no more leaves, so one could only eat the leaves maybe 6-9 months out of the year. Well, if you are sensitive to allantoin, then forget it. It is not a green that you can just nibble on. There are too many spikey hairs. The leaves have to be pounded, blended or juiced.

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Re: Fresh and others - greens?
Posted by: Manta91 ()
Date: April 16, 2015 04:32PM

I had issues with greens after eating grains, a definite no-no with candida. Then again, for a few months following, I could barely digest ANYTHING so I doubt the greens themselves were the problem.

I personally like greens, in smoothies or a big salad. Have to learn to chew them better, though.

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Re: Fresh and others - greens?
Posted by: Utopian Life ()
Date: April 16, 2015 04:42PM

smiling smiley I imagine you can grow a flat of your own greens somewhere, maybe? Just if you wanted to.

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