So apparently it is not:
[youtu.be]

I am interested in the rigor of the arguments used in there. Got to listen to it first! Will come back later.


RawGosia channel
RawGosia streams

All l know is that fruit is by far the least health building food of anything l have eaten in the plant kingdom. I don't feel good after eating it, nor do l get any energy lift. Most times l lose my level of well being after eating fruit. Fruit is the bottom rung food in the plant world imo and l prefer to avoid it. I sometimes have fruit to boost potassium levels because a sprout diet can be a little low in this mineral.

People criticise sprouted legumes and grains, but l do far better on these foods than fruit. Sometimes l am lucky in that fruit will have a neutral effect on me IF l only eat very small amounts. I see a cooked Mc Dougal style diet as superior to a raw high fruit diet for average people, but a high fruit diet as being above a junk food vegan diet, but a high fruit diet as still being a low level vegan diet for average people. None-the-less, l also see a high fruit diet as being the most superior diet for highly spiritually elevated beings. See...fruit diets need to be taken in context imo, it is not a black and white issue.

As for eating bananas, that is a total no go zone imo...the bananas are the bad boys of the fruit world and l strongly advise against them. I remember eating them while on holiday with Mr Kearns and he looked at me like l had lost my mind. He was shocked that such a foolish idea to eat bananas would enter my head. I acknowledged my foolishness and proceded to eat them anyway. After 30 minutes l fully regretted it and admitted to him l had been really dumb for doing it.

Eventhough l don't support high fruit diets, l am open minded enough to realise that some people do well on them. If someone wanted to do a high fruit diet despite warnings l would give, l would simply tell them to try it and if they have problems to seek some help in adjusting the diet.

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2015 01:48AM by The Sproutarian Man.

I love fruit and I love how good I feel after I eat it, and how much energy it gives me. I made a big discovery about the psychological effects of fruit. I noticed that at social functions, because I don't drink, if I eat some fruit, I instantly feel good, at ease, relaxed, sociable. It's like a happy pill, a pep pill, an upper. Amazing wonderful fresh fruit.

Sad to see fruit getting trashed by raw foodists.

Lois Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I love fruit and I love how good I feel after I
> eat it, and how much energy it gives me. I made a
> big discovery about the psychological effects of
> fruit. I noticed that at social functions,
> because I don't drink, if I eat some fruit, I
> instantly feel good, at ease, relaxed, sociable.
> It's like a happy pill, a pep pill, an upper.
> Amazing wonderful fresh fruit.



You are very lucky.


>
> Sad to see fruit getting trashed by raw foodists.


I wouldn't say that. Fruit is often not properly ripe, nor is it rarely ever fresh because of the post harvest mass food delivery systems we buy into. No thanks,l shall not delude myself into thinking such a system is good, so of course l will trash things that don't rise to high standards, especially when so many do poorly on high fruit diets.

Low nutrient foods, not properly ripe, not fresh = disaster. The reality also reflects this.

And yes, l got up early in the morning to make these conclusions (I am not alseep at the wheel like many are Lois). And what's more is that the reality of the situation is reflected in what l am saying too.

We have a big disconnect in the raw food world, but l refuse to have the blinkers of delusion put over my eyes.

It's not sad Lois, it is good. Why? Because we see truth of the matter as applied to average people. I seek truths Lois...l seek science Lois...l bust delusions Lois. This is not sad, this is good. You say l am wrong?...show me all the thousands who go on high fruit diets who are successful? Ask DR if anyone failed on it. You think l dream Lois?...no no no, l awaken thinking.

You want me to bring up the science of fruits being victims of post harvest systems? Want me to knock you socks off? Want me to scare you with brutal science Lois? Want me to be Brian Clement on steroids? I can do it Lois, l can do it! Get me started and l will make Brian Clement look like child's play, you bet your sweets boots l will.

RegaRDS LOIS: tHE sPROUTARIAN.

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2015 04:00AM by The Sproutarian Man.

I have not watched on of their videos in a long time.

Daniel Vitalis? He is talking about how fruit is not for man. How he gets attacked online, but how he started as a fruitarian. ( I miss being) He says the fruits are all hybrids, like chihuahuas are from wolves.
Bananas are the chihuahuas..and sterile.

Then about Apples. blahblah. Apples are clones! What is that true?
guys?

Are apples clones???

A nice interview in a parking lot.

Just pisses me off. He may have a point like a grain of sand truth about hybrids and stuff, but fruit eating even commercial fruit is better than eating cooked food. And definitely better than meat.





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2015 04:52AM by coconutcream.

TSM with his anti-fruit campaign stated:
"You want me to bring up the science of fruits being victims of post harvest systems? Want me to knock you socks off? Want me to scare you with brutal science Lois? Want me to be Brian Clement on steroids? I can do it Lois, l can do it! Get me started and l will make Brian Clement look like child's play, you bet your sweets boots l will. "

Bring it on big boy, but remember to apply it to the natural world and nature when you do. You and Clement will need to take off your suits though and get your hands dirty when you mono-crop farm your grains, beans and seeds. You'll soon see the fallacy of your ideas when applied to WILD nature.

Fruits, nuts, berries are smart foods as they can be grown as PERMANENT Agriculture. Your grains and beans and sprout seeds are one crop, maybe two a season and they don't reseed themselves. They are toil based agriculture. Can you physically do the farming needed to grow them, and then sprout them too? I doubt it since you admit to not spending time in nature as it's a "waste of time".

If you would watch the movie "Impact" that fresh brought up recently you would maybe have an inkling of understanding. The sequence with the last guy in the movie talked about Permaculture Food production across millions of acres, similar to what I say. He talked about hazelnut trees and chestnut trees in Rome that are over a thousand years old and getting bigger and producing more food each year.

I have found numerous WILD growing fruit trees well over a hundred years old untended producing food each year. Lowest form of plant food my ass.

The growing of grains, beans and seed foods strips the soil down VS the intelligent planting of layered tree and vine based foods. The movie is called "Impact" as if WE took on Permaculture to produce OUR foods, WE would have a positive IMPACT on the planet by OUR presence, as there would be abundance increasing yearly benefiting people as well as animals.

Then again, if you're really stuck that a bowl of sprouted beans topped with fermented cream of urine is fine dining, knock yourself out...

NuNativs on YouTube...

NuNativs wrote:

<<<I have found numerous WILD growing fruit trees well over a hundred years old untended producing food each year. Lowest form of plant food my ass.>>>

Indeed!!!

I normally like to hear what naysayers have to say, but I've heard Daniel Vitalis talk before and he does NOT impress me in the least.

Actually, I made my comment before I watched the video - but I was reacting to Brian's assertion that fruit has no place in a healthy diet. And 'eating fruit' morphed into 'high fruit diet' when it was quantified in his discussion. I was speaking of my experience of just eating fruit in general.

There are those who can't eat fruit for various reasons - digestion, blood sugar, etc., and maybe attention should be given to combining - but I think fruit, vegetables, sprouts, nuts/seeds and sea vegetables - herbs for healing - are all part of a nutritious diet.

After watching the video, I agree with Daniel Vitalis that our fruit nowadays is less health-giving than original and wild fruit.

*********

Another happy fruit experience I had -

My family was playing a brain game - Spot It - and I was doing so-so. Then I ate some raw banana nut bread and wow, I was great - my brain was sharp! I know the science - it's the spike in glucose and then later you come crashing down - but I just think of fruit as energy-giving.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2015 04:10PM by Lois.

vitalis makes many good points.

his analysis of healthy foods is not one i would agree with but, he's a naturalist and hunter gatherer aspirant which is admirable.

I like the re-wilding and the getting back into nature part of Vitalis too. I agree with a lot of that. But then he acts like any kind of agriculture/Permaculture/intentional planting is bad and not natural.

Contrary he has a dog, (domestication), eats eggs (domestication), consumes collostrum (domestication), deer antler (domestication) etc. etc.

NuNativs on YouTube...

Unlimited fruit is good - Dr M. Greger

[www.rawfoodsupport.com]

Nutritionally, some apples are better than others:

supermarket apples: [www.rawfoodsupport.com]

"Unlimited fruit is good - Dr M. Greger"

If Dr. Greger says it, is it automatically and unquestionably true?

NuNativs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Bring it on big boy,


You're tempting me. You're tempting me.
>
>
> Fruits, nuts, berries are smart foods as they can
> be grown as PERMANENT Agriculture. Your grains and
> beans and sprout seeds are one crop, maybe two a
> season and they don't reseed themselves. They are
> toil based agriculture. Can you physically do the
> farming needed to grow them, and then sprout them
> too? I doubt it since you admit to not spending
> time in nature as it's a "waste of time".


I see your point and agree, and living off fruits and nuts (trees) is an idea closest to my heart. But the problem is that this is not the reality of this world because few people can live like that, so this means we need to look at other foods to sustain, so the idealist argument you make starts to fall down because it is difficult to apply to the real world. I would love the world to avoid using agriculture to satisfy the inner purist in me, but l refuse to pursue lala land thinking because it is a sinking ship. Agriculture feeds people and makes them less reliant on animal products, and maybe there is a way around things where we can make it less damaging and more sustainable to the environment that we haven't thought of yet (haven't done research in this area yet).

John Rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NuNativs wrote:
>
> <<>>
>
> Indeed!!!
>
> I normally like to hear what naysayers have to
> say, but I've heard Daniel Vitalis talk before and
> he does NOT impress me in the least.


My thoughts as well. He is one of the last people l would want to listen to, and l am amazed that people do listen to him, but the diet world has low standards so l am not surprised he has a following.

If you are going to use hybridization arguments you better have strong science to support your arguments or otherwise you are on a slippery slope. I would love to use the hybridization argument, but l know l would come undone if l tried it. I have looked and looked for science saying that fruit is now 30 times more sweet, but all l come up with is fruit being about 18% sweeter over the last 100 years, not 3,000% sweeter. I may have emailed Brian Clement for a link also. None-the-less, I will ring the Dept of Ag (they told Brian this apparently) and see if they can supply the data. If Brian says that fruit has 30 times more sugar, why didn't he get hard data to prove it??

TSM, ".. l also see a high fruit diet as being the most superior diet for highly spiritually elevated beings."


That's true. We very highly spiritually elevated beings do need a lot of fruits.

Daniel seems to talk like the world was all primitive in the past and we were basically cavemen, and I get the feeling that he thinks we are the only modern `so called' advanced civilisation to have ever existed. l get the feeling many people think this way.

www.thesproutarian.com

I feel like in the raw food community fruit is either glorified or condemned, there's no middle ground. Eat mostly fruit! No, don't eat fruit at all! Fruitarian diets are a nightmare waiting to happen but fruit is still a great food to include in one's diet - lots of phytochemicals and nutrients. Even with post-harvest losses, the research still clearly indicates that diets rich in fruits and vegetables have major health benefits. From my experience, water-rich fruits are superior to low water fruits such as dates and bananas.

TSM, what are your concerns about bananas based off of?

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> TSM, what are your concerns about bananas based
> off of?


Lots of things, but lets keep the argument tight and simple.


1. Nutrition
Firstly, lets look at the nutrients in 1 kg worth of bananas v's the nutrients in 1 kg worth of sunflower seed. Notice how the nutrition of sunflower seeds completely smashes the nutrition of bananas out of the ball park.


2. Nutrition part 2
When one sprouts the sunflower seeds in mineralised water the mineral nutrition will greatly increase according to science, the enzymes will also greatly increase which greatly increases vitamins (very few know this), the phytochemicals willalso greatly increase. BUT...with the banana the nutrients will generally decrease in varying amounts due to post harvest factors.

3. Nutrition part 3
People will say that no-one eats 1 kg of seed each day. O.k, lets make it 100 g of seed. It will still smash the nutrition of 1kg of banana out of the ballpark when sprouted, and is FRESH!!!.


3. Digestion times
Seeds will take 4 hours top digest. Bananas will take 4 hours to digest.


The crunch point - part 1
So someone is going to waste 4 hours of digestion time eating something (bananas) which are usually not fresh and reasonably low in nutrition where-by they could be spending that 4 hours eating a food (seeds) which is far more nutritious, fresh, has superior health building ability and can be combined with other foods (seeds/algaes) to balance out the nutrition of a meal in a far superior way? Really? (Note: impossible to combine bananas properly with other foods to get the nutrition balancing effect in the meal)

Then we could also bring up a point about fruits being hard to balance a diet well nutritionally (an easy argument to make), sort of touched on it above.

I would also add that the sugar and none ripe nature of `so called' bench ripened bananas makes it a completely dubious food. It's harder to argue that point, but my body doesn't lie, it's like having rocks in the stomach and feels highly acidic despite all these brown banana marks all over the fruit (bad news).


Crunch point - part 2 - saying it different and romping it home
But the real point is...l am not going to force my body to deal with digesting a foodstuff for 4 four hours that is not fresh, not nutritious, is difficult to nutritionally balance,is high is sugar and is not naturally ripe where l could be choosing multiple foods far superior.


Give me a couple of hours and l would bring up an argument that would make bananas eat dust. Imo, bananas have absolutely no place in the human diet at all. They are bad news. It is a complete mystery why people choose to eat bananas.

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2015 11:48PM by The Sproutarian Man.

"Seeds will take 4 hours top digest. Bananas will take 4 hours to digest."

Where have you seen that bananas take 4 hours to digest?

"Give me a couple of hours and l would bring up an argument that would make bananas eat dust. Imo, bananas have absolutely no place in the human diet at all. They are bad news. It is a complete mystery why people choose to eat bananas."

Probably because they are a cheap source of calories for raw foodists and may help some of them stay low-fat. I don't eat them too often but I've never had any issues with them.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Where have you seen that bananas take 4 hours to
> digest?


Anyone half conscious will be able to tell you that. Besides, HHI also say the same thing.

Apples can take up to 1 hour, or 2 hours if lots are eaten. Stones fruits can take 1.5 - 2 hours, but over 2 hours if many are eaten. That is the issue with fruit, if you stuff yourself with food like many do you slow down digestion and it has a negative effect on the body. Developing consciousness is important so we can observe these things, so deplugging from the system and meditating helps achieve this, but if we still worship manmade system like many do we are finished and the walking dead hardly able to detect anything going on inside us. That is why many wouldn't know how long food takes to digest.


>
> Probably because they are a cheap source of
> calories for raw foodists and may help some of
> them stay low-fat.


LOL, yes. Very advanced thinking there `eh?

This is why l have come out into the public and speak out against all this nonsense now. I couldn't stand people become victims of such drivel being spouted any longer.

If people spout drivel in the raw movement, l am going to sink them by giving them a hefty dose of science and common sense. We need to move past the playground education and start getting more serious and sensible about things. It's time to move on. We don't have to sit in the sand pit any longer and suck our thumbs.

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2015 12:32AM by The Sproutarian Man.

TSM, FYI, digestion includes transit through the whole tube.

> It's time to move on. We don't have to sit in the sand pit any longer and suck our thumbs.

you are funny

TSM wrote:
It is a complete mystery why people choose to eat bananas.

Tai:
TSM, let me share about my garden. Once upon a time, my roommates and I would war against the squirrels. Over the years, we caught and released about 100 squirrels from the garden. Eventually we gave up. I learned to feed them other food, so they would not eat so many avocados. I feed them things like hard squash seeds and peanut butter.

Living in a garden is not just about humans. There are so many animals to take care of. Like recently a hive of bees from a commercial building was rescued to our garden. They were about to spray to kill the bees and we took them. So everyday or so, I put out a little honey for them. I am a vegan, but I finally found a way to use an old jar of honey laying around here.

I already shared before how banana flowers produce the most exquisite nectar and this is jealously guarded by the hummingbirds. Even if the banana plants did not produce bananas, the flowers are glorious for the royal hummingbirds. The banana plant (technically it's not a tree) is also very beautiful and creates a soothing effect in the garden. When the bananas are sun ripened, they do not taste like a store bought banana. They taste very different. They are also golden inside when sun-ripened. The banana fruits are a gift from the plant to humans for taking care of them and watering them. Do you know why they are a gift? Because they only produce one bunch and then no more. Then the plant will die eventually and is usually cut down first. As long as it does not produce the fruit, it will live. So, giving the fruit is it's gift and sacrifice to the humans. This is the lesson my bananas plants taught me.

In my garden, many different animals share parts of it and there are habitats for everyone.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2015 04:19AM by Tai.

that's beautiful Tai.

Good job Tai thanks for that. I don't think TSM is very connected to nature which is troubling for a "natural food" advocate...

BTW, try sprouting sunflower and kinda half chewing them, they come out completely undigested. Not so with bananas, the EVIL FRUIT?!?!?!?

NuNativs on YouTube...

NuNativs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good job Tai thanks for that. I don't think TSM is
> very connected to nature which is troubling for a
> "natural food" advocate...
>
> BTW, try sprouting sunflower and kinda half
> chewing them, they come out completely undigested.
> Not so with bananas, the EVIL FRUIT?!?!?!?

you must juice the sprouts, then ferment them, then mix with hemp, stir and then drink.

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All l know is that fruit is by far the least
> health building food of anything l have eaten in
> the plant kingdom. I don't feel good after eating
> it, nor do l get any energy lift. Most times l
> lose my level of well being after eating fruit.
> Fruit is the bottom rung food in the plant world
> imo and l prefer to avoid it. I sometimes have
> fruit to boost potassium levels because a sprout
> diet can be a little low in this mineral.
>
> Eventhough l don't support high fruit diets, l am
> open minded enough to realise that some people do
> well on them. If someone wanted to do a high fruit
> diet despite warnings l would give, l would simply
> tell them to try it and if they have problems to
> seek some help in adjusting the diet.

Something is not correct here.

Many of the foods you post here are fruits
1. funegreek seeds
2. chia seeds
3. flax seeds
4. pumpkin seeds
5. sunflower seeds

And the list goes on.............

There were even images of large container with tomatoes, watermelons and other seasonal fruits

Here are some fruits are good for your health images taken from The Sproutarian posts















I enjoy his posts but we all have to admit that fruits are good for our health.

only if local and freshly picked is his claim, which i think those are.

NuNativs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> BTW, try sprouting sunflower and kinda half
> chewing them, they come out completely undigested.


This is the concern I have with people on high fruit diets, it could be possible their digestion is quite weak because their diets aren't appropiate for them. To me these folks are getting plenty of prebiotic, but they are not getting enough probiotic because the diet is inadequate for them to be at a high level of functioning, + these folks are babying their digestion with lots of fruit and not giving it a regular workout and keeping it strong with the more concentrated foods. The high fruit diet is a big no no imo for many people, and you appear to be a classic case why l advise a more comprehensive diet to cater better for your condition. If people come to me in your situation l would be overhauling their diet quick smart.

Lots of humans eat meat, yet a vegan can't even digest a sprouted seed. Not good! These are the issues l am seeing everywhere, we vegans think this is normal. There is a big disconnect here going on.

I used to have trouble digesting sprouted seeds, but l fixed it by probiotics. Other people have reported the same thing. It is my opinion that our good bacteria levels in the mouth, stomach, intestines and other places are not in the quantity they should be in this day and age. I never could digest sprouted legumes either, but after going on a 100% raw fermented highly acidic diet for 4 months straight l brought my digestion to levels never seen in my entire life. For 4 months straight every foods l ate was heavily fermented and highly acidic....no alkaline foods at all and l felt the best in my entire life. I had fermented algae, fermented green juices, fermented seaweeds, fermented water, fermented sprouted seeds/nuts, fermented sprouted legumes and grains etc. Kulvinskas and his friend both told me they had never heard anything like it and they classified it as an extreme diet....l was shocked, but l guess it was extreme, but l LOVED that diet more than anything l have ever done.

Wish l still was a 100% fermentarian sproutarian. They wondered why the extreme diet didn't make me sick and siffer brain issues, but l had plenty of tricks l was doing to make it safe and reduce aldehydes. Never felt acidic or toxic, l felt amazing!!!



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2015 09:51AM by The Sproutarian Man.

<<<Lots of humans eat meat... I used to have trouble digesting sprouted seeds, but l fixed it by probiotics. ... I never could digest sprouted legumes either, but after going on a 100% raw fermented highly acidic diet for 4 months straight l brought my digestion to levels never seen in my entire life.>>>

Here's something to consider...

Herbert Shelton said that the more we eat of something the better we will be able to digest it, so MAYBE you didn't FIX anything and your body just finally got better at digesting it. In other words, it's not always easy to know why things work now when they didn't work in the beginning.

As far as your continual ATTACK against Fruit, have you NO sense of vision?

I CAN'T EAT FRUIT SO I MUST ATTACK FRUIT!!!

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH ME - IT'S THE FRUIT!!!

Yes, some of our Fruit leaves much to be desired, but we should NOT be ATTACKING FRUIT, we should ATTACKING our Current Agricultural Methods, we should be ATTACKING MEAT & GRAINS & CHEMICALS & PROCESSED FOODS & COOKED FOODS, we should be ATTACKING Organized Medicine, we should be ATTACKING Organized Religion, we should be ATTACKING the STATUS QUO!!!

Our Salvation as a Species lies within a Raw Food Diet, which includes a copious amount of Fruits and to ATTACK FRUIT only shows one's LACK of Vision!

Yes Brian, like so many others, YOU LACK VISION and then, you have the audacity to say that you are enlightened!

If you are so enlightened, why don't you care about the masses?

When there are so many things to ATTACK, why do you ATTACK one of the things that will help make this world a better place?

Oh yea, you don't care about the masses and the only way you can promote your absurd way of eating is to ATTACK FRUIT.

Why don't you ATTACK MEAT & GRAINS & CHEMICALS & PROCESSED FOODS & COOKED FOODS in order to promote your absurd way of eating?

It's because you are NOT enlightened and are extremely myopic and the only way you've figured out how to promote your absurd way of eating is to appeal to those who already know about Raw Foods and ATTACK FRUIT!!!

"No man is clever enough to know all the evil he does." --Francois De La Rochefoucauld (1630 - 80): Maxims 1665

I don't believe anybody would have problems with ALL fruits. I am also surprise that TSM does not eat berries.