human gut changes indicates that we need a higher "quality" diet
compared to extant apes.

in other words, less fiber.

which works out just perfectly due to our cultivation of fruits for higher pulp/lower fiber - indicating that there is nothing wrong with us eating less fiber

(some have suggested that we need to eat more fiber due to the amount that apes eat- "more" is only necessary relative to a typical diet, not a raw diet)


[nature.berkeley.edu]

Agreed Fresh. Don't need a lot of fiber on a raw diet, on the low side of moderate would be good imo. People who eat animal products would need more fibrous foods. There are some interesting things written on the dangers of high fiber diets.

TSM, I'm surprised you let yourself get bamboozled by Freshs' nonsense regarding fiber. It's just another case of shifting the goalposts to suit his feeble arguments..

1. You can't compare the fibre from grains or hard vegetables to fibrous fruit. The fibre from fruit is much softer and is an integral part of the fruit in nature ( as are the seeds). Things such as pity oranges and mandarins or stringy mangoes aren't totally indigestible. They contain nutrients, and vital nutrients are able to be absorbed as they pass thru the body.

2. '' Human gut changes indicates that ... ''. The same argument can be said for eating some cooked food or animal products, but since it doesn't serve the argument it's always argued against, yet here he is using that same argument.

3. Scientists breed the fiber out of fruit because most people don't eat fruit for their nutrition - they just have a piece here and there so they just want it to be watery and sugary so they can have a quick simple snack. Raw foodists, and high fruit raw foodists rely on fruit for the majority of their diet and nutrients so it's the complete opposite for them - they need nutrient denser fruit with more fibre, rather than having to eat 6 oranges and then sneaking out for tacos.

4. Breeding the fibre out of fruit is like removing all the nutrients from grains and then putting them back in artificially, but here we now see people adding flax, chia, hemp, nuts, seaweed, greens and whatever to get their quota of nutrients because the current fruit is lacking in both substance and nutrients.

5. For most people the fibre free fruit are ok as they come from a SAD diet and it's great for the cleansing part, but once that's done then the problems start and things start getting added back in the diet.

6. Breeding the fibre out is against what this board stands for - yet here Mr Fresh is happy to agree with the scientists.


I have a friend who comes from the hills of Lebanon where they grew all their own fruit and none of it had been tampered with. He told me that when they pulled their tomatoes off the vines they could either break them in half with their hands, or eat them like an apple - they were solid on the inside full of nutrients, compared to the watery tomatoes from the shops. So are we to assume that the home grown solid tomatoes are not suitable for the gut as compared to the watery tomatoes we can buy now?

BJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TSM, I'm surprised you let yourself get bamboozled
> by Freshs' nonsense regarding fiber. It's just
> another case of shifting the goalposts to suit his
> feeble arguments..
>

argument about what?


> 1. You can't compare the fibre from grains or hard
> vegetables to fibrous fruit. The fibre from fruit
> is much softer and is an integral part of the
> fruit in nature ( as are the seeds).

right. so what?

Things such
> as pity oranges and mandarins or stringy mangoes
> aren't totally indigestible. They contain
> nutrients, and vital nutrients are able to be
> absorbed as they pass thru the body.
>

so?


> 2. '' Human gut changes indicates that ... ''. The
> same argument can be said for eating some cooked
> food or animal products, but since it doesn't
> serve the argument it's always argued against, yet
> here he is using that same argument.
>


wrong. people DO use that "argument" but there are other negatives
with animal foods and cooked that they fail to consider.

your attempt to find a contradiction fails.



> 3. Scientists breed the fiber out of fruit because
> most people don't eat fruit for their nutrition -
> they just have a piece here and there so they just
> want it to be watery and sugary so they can have a
> quick simple snack. Raw foodists, and high fruit
> raw foodists rely on fruit for the majority of
> their diet and nutrients so it's the complete
> opposite for them - they need nutrient denser
> fruit with more fibre, rather than having to eat 6
> oranges and then sneaking out for tacos.
>


you're making a big deal out of nothing and not quantifying.

> 4. Breeding the fibre out of fruit is like
> removing all the nutrients from grains and then
> putting them back in artificially, but here we now
> see people adding flax, chia, hemp, nuts,
> seaweed, greens and whatever to get their quota of
> nutrients because the current fruit is lacking in
> both substance and nutrients.
>

no that is not why people eat those things.

sure, some fruit is good and some isn't.


> 5. For most people the fibre free fruit are ok as
> they come from a SAD diet and it's great for the
> cleansing part, but once that's done then the
> problems start and things start getting added back
> in the diet.
>

nobody said fibre free.


> 6. Breeding the fibre out is against what this
> board stands for - yet here Mr Fresh is happy to
> agree with the scientists.
>

nope, just saying we don't necessarily need "as much" as extant apes.

big deal.

are you really that bored?


>
> I have a friend who comes from the hills of
> Lebanon where they grew all their own fruit and
> none of it had been tampered with. He told me that
> when they pulled their tomatoes off the vines they
> could either break them in half with their hands,
> or eat them like an apple - they were solid on the
> inside full of nutrients, compared to the watery
> tomatoes from the shops. So are we to assume that
> the home grown solid tomatoes are not suitable for
> the gut as compared to the watery tomatoes we can
> buy now?

no we are not to assume that.

I think you're just a troll with nothing meaningful to say trying to egg people on, and that's why you post your stupid referrals to other sites.


You're just trying to annoy people so I won't be engaging with anything else you say. Whenever anyone addresses your points all you say is ' so ', but you continue to keep posting to other sites and it's all nonsensical drivel.

BJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think you're just a troll with nothing
> meaningful to say trying to egg people on, and
> that's why you post your stupid referrals to other
> sites.
>
>
> You're just trying to annoy people so I won't be
> engaging with anything else you say. Whenever
> anyone addresses your points all you say is ' so
> ', but you continue to keep posting to other sites
> and it's all nonsensical drivel.

nice chatting with you.

I once read on Tom Billings website that sometimes raw vegans can get too much fiber. Fiber can potentially take up too much space and not allow space for vital nutrients in some very high fiber diets. So even fiber must be watched, and especially so when eating a lot of vegetables.

I did see this in the two raw vegan men who lost a lot of weight. They ate until they felt full, but often this satiety was from fiber.

Where I live, with farmers markets throughout the week, and an overflowing abundance of vegetables and greens (that are picked the same morning they are sold), making vegetable juice allows one to partake of the goodness and not overwhelm oneself with too much fiber.

BJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think you're just a troll with nothing
> meaningful to say trying to egg people on, and
> that's why you post your stupid referrals to other
> sites.
>
>
> You're just trying to annoy people so I won't be
> engaging with anything else you say. Whenever
> anyone addresses your points all you say is ' so
> ', but you continue to keep posting to other sites
> and it's all nonsensical drivel.

Yep, nonsensical drivel is what fresh is all about.

Quote

I once read on Tom Billings website that sometimes raw vegans can get too much fiber. Fiber can potentially take up too much space and not allow space for vital nutrients in some very high fiber diets. So even fiber must be watched, and especially so when eating a lot of vegetables.

Yes, and a lot of fiber from raw vegetables seems to be very harsh on the digestive tract and not ideal at all. I would never eat things like raw squash or raw broccoli, they are not suitable for humans to eat raw!

Quote

I did see this in the two raw vegan men who lost a lot of weight. They ate until they felt full, but often this satiety was from fiber.

That is another common problem. Many raw vegans resort to high quantities of fruit to get their calories in, but that is not always the best way to do things for many people. Adding sprouted seeds and legumes to the diet seems to be an ideal way to get the calories in without stuffing oneself to the gills with food. Of course no one diet fits all, but a diet that incorporates a good percentage of sprouts does seem to work very well for the majority of people.

Quote

Where I live, with farmers markets throughout the week, and an overflowing abundance of vegetables and greens (that are picked the same morning they are sold), making vegetable juice allows one to partake of the goodness and not overwhelm oneself with too much fiber.

You should try green sprout juice instead, I think you will find it is far more powerful



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2015 04:19PM by Living Food.

Living food wrote:
You should try green sprout juice instead, I think you will find it is far more powerful smiling smiley

Tai:
Thank you for that. I do plan too. Living food, I can't believe I just learned that comfrey is banned for internal use in the US. In the spring, the little leaves poke out from the root, like little sprouts. The leaves can get very big, but can be eaten at any stage. There are some amazing sprouts that I have tried. Recently I grew milk thistle seed sprouts, but next time I will make more to juice them.

Milk thistle sprouts are fantastic for liver health and detoxification! Where do you get the seeds?

Yes, we are very backwards here in the US. The US is meant to lead the rest of the world down a dark path imo, so toxic things that are banned in many other countries (water fluoridation, GMO foods, etc) are widely embraced and promoted here, and with that many beneficial things that are embraced in other countries are banned. We are also responsible for many wars and furthering the agenda of certain dark powers that operate behind the scenes.

I heard last night that human dna is being changed because of all the wifi radiation, colleges are coming out saying yes, we are degrading because of wifi radiation. SO it could be that too.

Living Food Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Milk thistle sprouts are fantastic for liver
> health and detoxification! Where do you get the
> seeds?

Harvest them in the wild...

[www.youtube.com]

..or buy them on line. They are widely available and inexpensive.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Living Food Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Milk thistle sprouts are fantastic for liver
> > health and detoxification! Where do you get the
> > seeds?
>
> Harvest them in the wild...
>
> [www.youtube.com]
>
> ..or buy them on line. They are widely available
> and inexpensive.

This is where I get my organic thistle seeds. Their shipping is very fast.

[nuts.com]