This post is likely to be highly controversial, but so be it. When I hear people talking about healing others' illnesses I cringe inside, so it's time to set the record straight. This post will look at disease from a very advanced spiritual perspective.

What is the cause of disease and sickness? We're all quite knowledgeable in that area, and we know it comes down to things such as poor diet, nutritional deficiencies, toxins, stress, and similar harmful influences. This is true in a way, but it is only partial truth within this very limited physical dimension. What cannot be seen by the physical eyes is that the true reason for all illness, suffering, and adversity is a type of very fine extradimensional matter that is called karma. Lots of people talk about karma as a law of the universe etc, but what they don't realize is that it is a type of particle that has physical existence and is accumulated by doing "bad" things. We all have this matter in our energy field and the only way to get rid of it is through suffering, which under the right circumstances can transform it into a very precious form of matter.

Illnesses may be superficially caused by the physical factors we all know by heart, but those are merely circumstances attracted to the person by their karma. If a person gets cancer from living next to a cell phone tower, that is just the particular manifestation of their karma at work. If they didn't live next to the tower they would still attract ill health by different physical means, or maybe they'd be hit by a car or suffer bankruptcy. Karma must be payed back, there is no getting around it.

The issue is that when someone is sick, they are essentially paying off their karma through that hardship. If a doctor or natural health professional then heals their illness for them, how can that person pay off their karma? They have not eliminated this person's suffering, they have merely postponed it to sometime in the future. The physical illness may be completely eradicated and the body restored to health, but the karma remains because it was not payed off. This karma will manifest as sickness or some other type of hardship down the line, so in the end healing someone doesn't help them at all. Indeed, by preventing a person from paying off their karma, doctors or natural health professionals are incurring a significant karmic debt themselves because such actions are a huge transgression under cosmic law.

You can teach a person how to heal themselves and it is fine because they are shouldering that responsibility themselves, but heal a person of your own accord and you are going to be in big trouble.

I no longer believe in karma like you use it. That enslaves people into the Matrix mentality of being trapped and having to pay something back that they did. I believe that "sin" is due to ignorance and once you receive the Light that allows you to see how much you erred, it instantly erases what you have done. This is a bit similar to the Christian thinking of receiving Christ and your sins are washed clean. In any case, once you understand what life is about, you won't sin in the future. Not like you did before, in any case.

I believe in cause and effect but even with that there is INTENT. The same action can be viewed as evil and okay depending on the consciousness of the person who does it.

> What cannot be seen by the physical eyes is that the true reason for all illness, suffering, and adversity is a type of very fine extradimensional matter that is called karma

Yes karma or the law of cause and effect, action and reaction is the fundamental law of the universe.

But our suffering is not necessarily from something we did wrong in the distant past. It is more from the things we are not doing right, now, today, and tomorrow.

I can stop eating pizzas, doughnuts, fries and my digestion will improve, I will feel better.

We have more control of our health and destiny than we think.

And there are plenty of cases of people who changed their diet and life style and cured their diseases.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2015 05:00PM by RawPracticalist.

Living Food wrote:

<<<What cannot be seen by the physical eyes is that the true reason for all illness, suffering, and adversity is a type of very fine extradimensional matter that is called karma.>>>

As you may well know based on a recent comment I made to TSM, I’m working on a Video right now that exposes this OBVIOUS FLAW in Spirituality as it takes away our Responsibility in the Here and Now. The same way Religion takes away our Responsibility by having us focus on the After Life or the Here After, Reincarnation takes away our Responsibility by having us focus on our Prior Life and the Here After. I’m still doing some research for my Video, but be looking for a more in depth explanation into these OBVIOUS FLAWS!!!

banana who wrote:

<<<I no longer believe in karma like you use it. That enslaves people into the Matrix mentality of being trapped and having to pay something back that they did. I believe that "sin" is due to ignorance and once you receive the Light that allows you to see how much you erred, it instantly erases what you have done. This is a bit similar to the Christian thinking of receiving Christ and your sins are washed clean. In any case, once you understand what life is about, you won't sin in the future. Not like you did before, in any case.>>>

Very well said and spot on!!!

RawPracticalist wrote:

<<<But our suffering is not necessarily from something we did wrong in the distant past. It is more from the things we are not doing right, now, today, and tomorrow.>>>

Indeed, our Suffering simply comes from what we are doing in the Here and Now and the whole idea that Suffering is supposed to be part of our Spiritual Growth is absurd!!!

Here is part of an Audio Tape I made back on 11-7-14 that expounds on this absurdity…

19:57 MM
It’s a Con - it’s a Trick - we’re being Duped - we’re being Fooled - we’re Not supposed to be Suffering - Suffering is part of our Feedback System - it’s Not part of our Spiritual Growth - Suffering is to tell us we’re making Mistakes and if we Stop making the Mistakes, this place will be like Paradise because most of our Suffering is 100% Within our Control.

It’s an easy Con to convince someone who is Suffering that it’s part of our Spiritual Growth because they want to turn that Hell into Paradise the best way they can and to them that’s it - you’re being Enlightened!

Oh, I’m Suffering. Oh, I’m being Enlightened, yea!

No, you’re being Tricked and Fooled.

Yes, Suffering serves a purpose - it’s part of our Feedback System - it’s purpose is Not for Spiritual Growth.

Yes, Suffering serves a purpose, but it’s Not for Spiritual Growth - it’s part of our Feedback System.

And then, to Blame yourself on your Karma, oh, it was your Past Lives - you’re Bad - now you’re Suffering now.

What a bunch of crap. Again, it’s Outside of our Control - it’s Karma.

No, Karma is supposed to be Within your Control - Cause & Effect. Oh, it was Cause & Effect because it was a Prior Life.

Oh, Bull @#$%& - that’s where they get you.

So it’s either a Prior Life or it’s the Here After.

So there’s the difference between Reincarnation and Heaven - Heaven is the Here After - Reincarnation is the Prior Life.

Whatever you do - don’t focus on the Here and Now.

If you’re Suffering now, it’s because of your Karma, but not to worry because you can Live in Heaven for Eternity in the After Life just as long as you don’t focus on the Here and Now and allow your Suffering.

Your Suffering is Outside of your Control - only focus on the Here After.

It’s Outside of your Control based on your Prior Lives and you shouldn’t focus on the Suffering - focus on the Here After - it’s what you have for Eternity.

Forget your Physical Body - you are a Spirit.

There’s another one to get you.

Yea, you’re Not your Physical Body - you are a Spirit - Forget your Suffering.

So Heaven is the Here After and Reincarnation is our Prior Life and the Here After.

Will you keep repeating the same Mistakes?

We’re going to make you come back here and Suffer some more until you learn your Mistakes and quit making them.

What a bunch of Hokum!

What a Crock of @#$%&!
[End of C-24] [2493 words]

Living food wrote:
"This karma will manifest as sickness or some other type of hardship down the line, so in the end healing someone doesn't help them at all. Indeed, by preventing a person from paying off their karma, doctors or natural health professionals are incurring a significant karmic debt themselves because such actions are a huge transgression under cosmic law."

Tai:
I think your post is generally okay, but this section is not.
People's karma is so great that without medicine, many would die prematurely. Dying prematurely is not good, because then a person cannot often not repent, not take a higher road, not lead a better life and not fulfill one's purpose in life.

Look at sweet Dan the Man, who ended up in the hospital last year and needed antibiotics. Dan has a special purpose in this life. There are excellent herbs that are antibiotic but he didn't have anything around, so his only choice was antibiotics and the hospital route, to his knowledge. Dan said he almost died and might have died without help. At the very least, the experience was humbling for him and probably helped him learn to respect doctors more after that.

Medicine and the hospital route is for those who are unable to take responsibility for themselves yet. It's just like parents raising children, who can't take responsibility for themselves yet. It's not a transgression to help people in dire need. It is actually a transgression to not help someone facing premature death, just as it would be wrong to not stop a murder or arson.

The only transgression that I can think of made by doctors and natural healers is that sometimes they use improper methods to heal. I have a dear friend who is attached to energy healing (he was a medical doctor in Russia and is an acupuncturist here in America). He uses unusual methods of healing. Instead of just using normal medicine, including acupuncture, he uses chanting, mandalas and other strange things, like directly interfacing with the blockages through psychic means. In the past, he often took on karma from people he was attempting to heal and while they got better, he suffered from their same problem. He thought he had mastered protecting himself from his patients' energy while doing energy healing. He thought he had nothing to worry about. Then one day he healed a lady of vitiligo using an unusual energetic method with mandalas and she was totally healed, but he got the disease! I can feel energy and over every patch of his vitiligo, I could feel a field of blocked energy. It was frightening to me, because he took on a significant amount of her sick energy. My poor sweet friend continued to use energy healing on people even after that. (One day I will write a post about the crazy things I have witnessed amongst energy healers. THe one sobering fact is that many seem to die way before their time.)

Let's take Lou Corona as an example. When Lou was 21 years old, he was facing death. He had a big tumor sticking out the back of his head and was dying of asthma. The light being who visited him told him to abstain from flesh and eat raw living food. BUT the most primary thing the being did for him was to take Lou back in his memory to childhood. The being made Lou remember everything: Lou had been really abused by his family both emotionally and physically. Life was so bad for Lou that he wanted to die. He actually declared one day as a boy, I think at age 9, "I want to die". The being made Lou remember his strong declaration and that he set a death wish in motion. Lou was frequently abused, so his death wish was only strengthened and strengthened with continual abuse. Lou would later participate in eating contests and would win. He finally understood that his death wish was primary, and his actions brought that to fruition. Now, if anyone would have tried to heal Lou's body without the cooperation of his heart and mind completely, they would have been facing the power of his death wish buried in his whole being. So the first thing the Light being told Lou to do was to love and forgive everyone who had ever hurt him or abused him and to also bless them with love, peace and success in their life. That is one of the reasons that Lou prayed for a mentor, because he didn't know how to love or forgive his abusers. But initially, Lou was able to understand that his death wish was terrible and prayed for forgiveness and renounced it. That was the first step of his healing. Later, he would forgive every single person in his life that abused him, and not just forgave, but also blessed them.

Once a person has made a shift in their mind and heart and they commit to taking a higher road, a road of forgiveness and compassion, their mental shift already sets an enormous cascade of healing events in their body. (And even if it's too late for a person and they really are dying of a disease and will die no matter what, at least the forgiveness will lighten their soul for their next journey.) When their body starts healing, starting with their mind and heart healing, then there is a corresponding change in the aura, as bad things start shedding. The severe blockages are released. Healing is so much easier when a person is totally aligned body and soul with their unconditional betterment.

Lou's purpose in being born into that family was not just to repay karma, although he did for the first 20 years of his life. His purpose was to help his whole family shed the old way of being, the dog-eat-dog mentality and ultimately to help the masses. Guess where his family was going with their way of being? They were going down a hellish road. The price he paid of getting born into that family and suffering the abuse was nothing compared to the salvation he brought to them.

So suffering is not the purpose...enlightenment is the purpose. Enlightenment of the true and proper way of being.

I think John Rose has a healthy outlook on life. Yet, John said we are not supposed to be suffering. I agree with most things John said there, but the fact is old age and death ARE suffering. Ann Wigmore ate some of the best food on the planet and enjoyed awesome health for 30 years, but she still succumbed to smoke inhalation and died. THat is suffering. The other kind of suffering is injuries, which happen to even the best food eaters. Also the other major suffering, besides living in a trash pit on earth with pollution, is poor weather. How many get to live in paradisical conditions on earth? If humans were not supposed to suffer, then there would not be old age and death. But I totally agree with John Rose that suffering is our feedback system, but that does not disagree with the karma/sin believers.

In closing, I will share a bit about karma. In the religion of Jainism, they refer to karma as karma particles. Some people think of karma as a vague concept, but the jains view it as a real, yet invisible substance. They see bad actions causing black energy to accumulate in the aura and good actions causing white energy to accumulate. In other systems, they see the black energy as the root cause for misfortune. Everyone knows there are so many invisible things that are real that our naked eyes can't see, like radio waves. So, to the jains, these karma particles are extremely real. THe jains would filter their water over 2,000 years ago, as Mahavira, their saint, could see microorganisms with his microscopic vision. Their purpose was to not cause harm to the microorganisms. Such was their compassion. The point is that their tradition was able to see things that normal eyes could not see. Karma is not only acquired through what one eats or does, but also by what one says and thinks, and even from one's family.

>So suffering is not the purpose...enlightenment is the purpose. Enlightenment of the true and proper way of being.

The whole post so well written and true.
Than you for lifting us up, Tai

actually i think better to differentiate between pain and suffering.

can not always avoid pain, but can avoid suffering.

suffering is a mental state opposing reality, which can contain pain.

Quote

Tai:
I think your post is generally okay, but this section is not.
People's karma is so great that without medicine, many would die prematurely. Dying prematurely is not good, because then a person cannot often not repent, not take a higher road, not lead a better life and not fulfill one's purpose in life.

Thank you for sharing Tai, you have helped me to see this issue in a different light. Is there anything else you can see that I may have misspoke about?

JR, I love how your statement ends:

"What a crock of @#$%&!"

Quote

JR, I love how your statement ends:

"What a crock of @#$%&!"

Yes, that gave me a great deal of amusement. Sometimes I love how you express yourself John

We obviously have different views on this matter, and since I am only in the discovery stages myself right now I don't wish to debate it with you. Ignorance is prolific. It could be we both strongly disagree and yet are both wrong.



--------
Edit: Tai, your inbox is full.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2015 10:35PM by Living Food.

I so get this, but I have been sick before and I have been cured by others, and I dont know what would have happened if I didnt have those others. Also I got to the raw food movement by Juliano and healed myself of something literally in three days that plagued me for years. YEARS> PLAGUE. And for the first time ever I liked my body. And my soul. I can say, because of people like Juliano, I have been healed of things my entire lifetime before, couldnt fix. In three days.





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2015 10:42PM by coconutcream.

Thanks for adding your perspective coconutcream. I was indeed too harsh on the subject of treating others, it is much more nuanced than I made it out to be and not as black and white. It does seem that treating others can be a very good thing under certain circumstances, and I appreciate everyone sharing their own perspectives on the issue. The important thing seems to be that the person is ready to take responsibility for themselves afterwards.

Coconutcream - it is very impressive that were cured in three days of a persistent illness. Do you mind sharing what the illness was and what kind of raw diet or treatment got rid of it? If you do of course feel free to ignore this question.

Note - it is still important to be aware of the root cause of illness and misfortune, because this knowledge gives you great power.

I get so paranoid of talking about myself online these days. George Orwell. You know. I consider myself safe though among you guys chatting for the world to see. lol

Tai wrote:

<<<I think John Rose has a healthy outlook on life. Yet, John said we are not supposed to be suffering. I agree with most things John said there, but the fact is old age and death ARE suffering.>>>

Thanks Tai, always the consummate politician/perfectionist!

Here are some of my favorite quotes from my my file on Aging:

“Old age is not a time of life. It is a condition of the body. It is not time that ages the body, it is abuse that does.” -Herbert Shelton

“Aging is the result of Time poorly lived...whereas Time is the vehicle of aging.” -John Thomas

“Aging is not a matter of time alone; it is the rate at which we permit our bodies to decay over a period of time.” -Daniel Reid, “The Tao Of Health Sex And Longevity” p. 362

“Old age is a highly toxic condition caused by nutritional deficiencies and an unhealthy lifestyle.” -Paul Bragg

“Thus all symptoms of aging are latent disease, accumulations of mucus and clogging-up by mucus.” -Arnold Ehret, “Rational Fasting” p. 39

“Disease, old age, and death are the result of accumulated poisons and congestions throughout the entire body. These toxins became crystallized and hardened, settling around the joints, in the muscles, and throughout the billions of cells all over the body.” -Stanley Borroughs, “The Master Cleanser” p. 6

“The health challenges that the elderly in our country face are merely a reflection of a life poorly lived. Indeed, the elderly are failures at living simply because they refuse to look in the mirror.” -John Rose

"Here are some of my favorite quotes from my my file on Aging:"


What do you base your favorite quotes on.... Reality? Personal resonance? Wishful thinking?

Some disease is karma related by living toxic lifestyles such as smoking and eating junk food and they can be fixed in this dimension by changing one's lifestyle, but there are other things which also contribute to disease which cannot be spoken about on public forums because of the way mankind has been trained to think. Remember Living Food, people can only comprehend dimensions and things they can only see with their own two eyes, so it is imporatnt to mainly speak from this perspective so we don't rattle people's cages in this matrix of delusion.

Living Food, you are on the right path with many of your ideas.

We are meant to be in delusion for a reason, and the only one's who will escape this are the people who enlighten. As long as we follow man made ideas as truth there will be no hope, but in this delusion people's manbmade ideas are what people base their reality on...l say, so be it, let people think what they want....it is not up to us to wake people up, it is up to them to become enlightened and wake up. I choose to keep silent these days and let people sleep. All l hear is lots of snoring going on in the truth movement and raw food movement for these folks are dependant on manmade ideas to do their thinking. My message to mankind is....sleep my sleeping beauties,for you need your beauty sleep until it is time for the mission. *ding ding*

www.thesproutarian.com

A really crucial aspect of healing is the ways in which we do it. If we are using plants it is not so bad for various reasons, but if we use energy healing it is a very bad idea for reasons l won't go into at the moment.

www.thesproutarian.com

John Rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Living Food wrote:
>
> <<>>
>
> As you may well know based on a recent comment I
> made to TSM, I’m working on a Video right now
> that exposes this OBVIOUS FLAW in Spirituality as
> it takes away our Responsibility in the Here and
> Now. The same way Religion takes away our
> Responsibility by having us focus on the After
> Life or the Here After, Reincarnation takes away
> our Responsibility by having us focus on our Prior
> Life and the Here After. I’m still doing some
> research for my Video, but be looking for a more
> in depth explanation into these OBVIOUS FLAWS!!!
>
> banana who wrote:
>
> <<>>
>
> Very well said and spot on!!!
>
> RawPracticalist wrote:
>
> <<>>
>
> Indeed, our Suffering simply comes from what we
> are doing in the Here and Now and the whole idea
> that Suffering is supposed to be part of our
> Spiritual Growth is absurd!!!
>
> Here is part of an Audio Tape I made back on
> 11-7-14 that expounds on this absurdity…
>
> 19:57 MM
> It’s a Con - it’s a Trick - we’re being
> Duped - we’re being Fooled - we’re Not
> supposed to be Suffering - Suffering is part of
> our Feedback System - it’s Not part of our
> Spiritual Growth - Suffering is to tell us we’re
> making Mistakes and if we Stop making the
> Mistakes, this place will be like Paradise because
> most of our Suffering is 100% Within our Control.
>
> It’s an easy Con to convince someone who is
> Suffering that it’s part of our Spiritual Growth
> because they want to turn that Hell into Paradise
> the best way they can and to them that’s it -
> you’re being Enlightened!
>
> Oh, I’m Suffering. Oh, I’m being Enlightened,
> yea!
>
> No, you’re being Tricked and Fooled.
>
> Yes, Suffering serves a purpose - it’s part of
> our Feedback System - it’s purpose is Not for
> Spiritual Growth.
>
> Yes, Suffering serves a purpose, but it’s Not
> for Spiritual Growth - it’s part of our Feedback
> System.
>
> And then, to Blame yourself on your Karma, oh, it
> was your Past Lives - you’re Bad - now you’re
> Suffering now.
>
> What a bunch of crap. Again, it’s Outside of
> our Control - it’s Karma.
>
> No, Karma is supposed to be Within your Control -
> Cause & Effect. Oh, it was Cause & Effect because
> it was a Prior Life.
>
> Oh, Bull @#$%& - that’s where they get you.
>
> So it’s either a Prior Life or it’s the Here
> After.
>
> So there’s the difference between Reincarnation
> and Heaven - Heaven is the Here After -
> Reincarnation is the Prior Life.
>
> Whatever you do - don’t focus on the Here and
> Now.
>
> If you’re Suffering now, it’s because of your
> Karma, but not to worry because you can Live in
> Heaven for Eternity in the After Life just as long
> as you don’t focus on the Here and Now and allow
> your Suffering.
>
> Your Suffering is Outside of your Control - only
> focus on the Here After.
>
> It’s Outside of your Control based on your Prior
> Lives and you shouldn’t focus on the Suffering -
> focus on the Here After - it’s what you have for
> Eternity.
>
> Forget your Physical Body - you are a Spirit.
>
> There’s another one to get you.
>
> Yea, you’re Not your Physical Body - you are a
> Spirit - Forget your Suffering.
>
> So Heaven is the Here After and Reincarnation is
> our Prior Life and the Here After.
>
> Will you keep repeating the same Mistakes?
>
> We’re going to make you come back here and
> Suffer some more until you learn your Mistakes and
> quit making them.
>

> [2493 words]


Truth 101 is well and good, but truth 909 is much more comprehensive. Yes suffering is a feedback system, but it extends to greater depths than most people probably think it does. Enlighten to the full extent of Truth 101 and you will understand John because it will bring you to Truth 909.

John, your concepts are very loose. Enlightening will tighten them up. Remember John, Truth 101 is the beginning stuff that you talk about here, but Truth 909 is where the big game really gets started. It takes time to move onto Truth 909, but keep up the good work because Truth 101 is a great start. Most are not even out of he starting gates yet, but at least you have made a start.

www.thesproutarian.com

Living Food,

I really don’t think we can cure others’ illnesses. They need to do that for themselves. Many of us here on the forum have had wonderful results healing ourselves with the raw food diet and lifestyle. And in our excitement about the possibilities, many of us have shared with others about how it’s possible to heal from illness with this lifestyle. But how many times have the news about healing with the raw food diet or significant health oriented lifestyle changes fallen on deaf ears?

I think a person’s karma determines whether or not they can hear the truth of this message, about how one can heal their disease and chronic illness with healthful lifestyle habits. Because in my experience of sharing, only a small percentage of people can hear this message, and will act upon it.

the OP sounds awfully new-age, almost even a little too similar to the basic idea behind scientology.



Living Food, how did you come to these conclusions, if you don't mind me asking?

Living Food Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This post is likely to be highly controversial,
> but so be it.


Highly controversial is good - it means interesting.






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/19/2015 02:55PM by Lois.

To hear a message we have to listen first, to pay attention. For most it is more exciting to talk than listen

Prana wrote:

<<<I really don’t think we can cure others’ illnesses. They need to do that for themselves. ...I think a person’s karma determines whether or not they can hear the truth of this message, about how one can heal their disease and chronic illness with healthful lifestyle habits. Because in my experience of sharing, only a small percentage of people can hear this message, and will act upon it.>>>

EXACTLY!!!

"Voltaire was critical of medicines--'Regime is superior to medicine'; and of most doctors--'out of every hundred physicians ninety-eight are charlatans'; but he added: 'Men who are occupied in the restoration of health to other men, by the joint exercise of skill and humanity, are above all the great of the earth. They even partake of divinity, since to preserve and renew is almost as noble as to create.'" -Will & Ariel Durant, “The Age of Voltaire,” p. 600

Quote

the OP sounds awfully new-age

New Age practices should be avoided at all costs for reasons too scary to mention. What I talk about is not new age, it is principles as old as the universe. Some Eastern religions talked about these principles thousands of years ago, so how could they be "new"???

As a matter of fact, even the Abrahamic religions and "pagan" religions since their inception all operated under the belief that bad/immoral actions lead to retribution, and good actions lead to rewards. There is a reason that this idea is ubiquitous in all (I think) religions...did they all get it wrong, or did they perhaps enlighten to a very profound truth?

Quote

almost even a little too similar to the basic idea behind scientology

I know next to nothing about scientology except that it is supposed to be bad news. If it is than naturally I would have nothing to do with it

Quote

Living Food, how did you come to these conclusions, if you don't mind me asking?

When you have a pure heart and mind and practice spiritually you enlighten to many things.

Most people can only see in this physical dimension so that is all they believe in, but some people can see into many dimensions and realize that we have based our entire understanding about life on just the tiny tip of an immeasurably vast iceberg.

There is no such thing as Karma as we know it - it doesn't exist, There are consequences for your actions, comeuppances, as well as ' cause and effect '.


The concept would have started in times past when people lived in small villages, towns and communities where everyone either knew each other - or each others business. If someone did something good and worthwhile everyone would find out and react accordingly to those people in a positive manner. On the other hand, if someone did something bad then everyone would also find out and react accordingly and they would get their bad karma, as a result of their own actions - hence karma started.

Once you move away from the small town concept where no one knows anyone else then it's basically a free for all and everyone is collateral damage along the way and karma doesn't exist any more and becomes almost meaningless. It's a mad mad world we live in.

For a long time now I have said, ' good karma doesn't go to good people, and bad karma doesn't go to bad people ', meaning that many many good people have hard times and a difficult / bad life, whereas many many bad people have a good life.

Interesting Bj

Gossip was indeed to warn women of bad men in villages

Living Food wrote:
>
> When you have a pure heart and mind and practice
> spiritually you enlighten to many things.
>


So you had a personal mystical revelation. Millions of people throughout history have had their own person revelations as well.


Many people have heard their god say that everyone else must worship him or go to hell and much violence ensues. Some people have experiences that says the earth must be healed. Some people hear that the end times will arrive on a specified date, etc etc.



That's fine if you incorporate that into your world view, but to downplay the work people do healing others, for instance a john rose or tai, is not really fair, and to be honest seems a bit ignorant to attribute their healing to some archaic rule meant to govern peoples behavior.

Living food wrote:
"Thank you for sharing Tai, you have helped me to see this issue in a different light. Is there anything else you can see that I may have misspoke about?"

"If a doctor or natural health professional then heals their illness for them, how can that person pay off their karma? They have not eliminated this person's suffering, they have merely postponed it to sometime in the future. The physical illness may be completely eradicated and the body restored to health, but the karma remains because it was not payed off."

Tai:
I have seen diseases completely cured using natural methods and in those cases, I see much karma was paid off. I think you are mistaking cases where a miracle healer cures someone instantly or miraculously, like John of God in Brazil, versus a natural healer who uses painstaking methods.

Let's take the case of my aunt who had ovarian cancer. In order to do the natural healing, she had to stay with my aunt and uncle for a few months. She was apart from her child and also her husband. Her marriage was on the rocks, but she was hoping to work things out eventually. The natural healing worked and she got to keep her ovaries and uterus, which helps hormonally in a marriage, but turns out, her husband cheated and caused problems with their house, and so the marriage ended. Also, during the natural healing, she had to give up all her favorite foods and grow up taste-wise. That is a kind of suffering. She had to use a colema board a few times a week for 10 months. That is a kind of suffering. It is not easy to clean it or store it easily. She had to sleep with a castor oil pack on every night. That is also a kind of suffering. It is sticky and messy and you have to wash it off. The taste of very bitter herbs several times a day is a kind of suffering. Have you ever eaten wormwood? There are herbs more ghastly than wormwood and which people sometimes need. She had to be a slave in the kitchen making juices daily. ANd she still had to work to make money. In the case of my aunt, yes, she paid off her karma and she did undergo tremendous suffering. However, she incurred new karma with my uncle who helped her the most, but that is another story. Also, years later, she fell back into some of her old ways, which brings on more karma. People need to stop incurring so much karma.

The one thing about natural healing that some do not understand is that there is suffering inherent in it, and that suffering repays karma. Lou Corona did not get to eat sweet bananas all day long to heal his tumor. His mentor sent him into the garden to eat bitter weeds all day. He would go pick big bowls of bitter weeds and he thought, "you have got to be kidding me. This is all I can eat?" He did other things, like colon hydrotherapy, breath work, etc.

Some people are lucky and get to use sweet fruit to heal their problems (but as I learned with Robert Morse, the tart fruits are the most potent, while the pleasantly sweet ones just help the tart ones go down). But often just getting the proper fruit is suffering in itself. I know one man who drives like an hour in the wee dawn hours to the wholesale fruit district and has to go to various stores to get enough food for the raw vegan lifestyle. If he didn't do this, he could never afford the prices at Whole Foods or other health food stores, or even at the farmer's market sometimes That is not easy. That cannot be obtained by going two blocks to your local supermarket, which sells only conventional unripe fruit or expensive organic fruit. Even when I drive to the farmers market, I am often stuck in traffic and instead of taking an hour, it could easily take me two hours. I might get lucky and get fruit at $1.50/lb at the farmers market, instead of $3/lb at the health food store, but it just cost me 1-2 hours of time. I can only store so much and buy so much, so I end up going to the farmers market twice a week. Let's take farmers...that is one of the hardest jobs ever, having to slave in the sun, and also, farmers are usually poor.

IT's true, you have to eat properly and raw, living food is best, yet obtaining that food comes at a price, way beyond the dollars you spend. That extra price is suffering, in my opinion. That suffering repays karma, from my perspective.

Some people might think I am being silly by saying these things. Well, unless I write pages and pages about the theory of karma particles getting transformed from bad energy into good energy, and all the experiences I have had, I am mainly speaking to the ones on the forum that actually believe in karma/sin as having a real effect in people's lives.

One person said, hey, we know that bad people can live awesome lives and good people can be persecuted, murdered and die tragically, so the karma theory looks outdated. Well, only people who comprehend the totality of existence beyond this physical life appreciate the significance of karma/sin. ONly those who believe that humans have souls who continue to live on after this body perishes actually respect the concept of karma/sin. THose people who believe understand that every deed, thought, speech and kindness counts, because it will make their future better, even if the results won't be seen until later. Some asians, like the Jains, know that karma is actually quantifiable.

Some people think Jesus dying on the cross didn't accomplish anything significant. Others who have seen him in later visions see that he still has the wounds in the hands and feet and see that he is still suffering. Those naysayers cannot comprehend that suffering can repay anything. They cannot comprehend that a savior would bear suffering to save a person from hell.

And some Christians cannot comprehend other ways of handling karma/sin.

Acts 16 6-7 from the Bible:
"6 Paul and his companions traveled throughout the region of Phrygia and Galatia, having been kept by the Holy Spirit from preaching the word in the province of Asia. 7 When they came to the border of Mysia, they tried to enter Bithynia, but the Spirit of Jesus would not allow them to."

Could it be that, yes, the Buddhists and Daoists had valid methods already in place? Could it be that mixing systems does not work?

I have stressed and stressed that suffering is not the purpose. THe purpose is enlightening. Suffering is just something that happens on the way for the lucky ones that get to enlighten. If suffering was the main purpose, then why would saviors throughout history wipe away karma/sin from their disciples? They wiped it away, so the disciples could continue to live and mature.

I don't want to betray Lou COrona's confidance, but I think his life is a perfect example of what I am trying to share, especially so John Rose can understand. We all know the story of how the Light Being came to visit Lou and told him to eat raw living food and abstain from flesh to heal himself. We know that part happened when he was 21 years old. But the story that is very key that is rather private is that when he was 16 years old, he had a healing miracle. He was already a Christian since he was a kid, and at age 16, he was in a terrible motorcycle accident. The doctors said he couldn't walk. But one day this amazing energy came to him and healed his leg and he could walk again. He had already learned to pray and it was at that time, that he started to have glimpses of the purpose of his life and what he was supposed to accomplish. That is for him to share fully one day. John Rose said that healing miracles take away personal responsibility and the feedback mechanism, in my own words to paraphrase what I understand him saying. But in Lou's case, you can see how healing miracles are in total harmony with personal responsibility. Lou was taught to take personal responsibility with diet, lifestyle and mental and emotional wellbeing. But in other instances, Lou received protection and help. And that accident was not the only time. Some things are beyond our control and for some of us who believe, it's nice to get some higher help.

The last thing I want to say on this topic of healing and repaying karma is that some people say, hey, shouldn't the self flagellants heal themselves with suffering? Well, it doesn't work like that because another key concept in benevolent metaphysical healing is that one's mind and heart needs to be elevated for bad things to leave the energy body. I dread to talk about this with non-believers, but for the sake of Living Food and Tezcal, I feel I must.

With the dropping of negative attachments, obsessions, vices, immoral thoughts and the increase of compassion, tolerance, forgiveness, benevolence, and forbearance, then healing becomes easier. Let me give an example.

John CHristopher taught a famous and effective "incurables" program. It required juice fasting, tons of herbs and many modalities. One other key component was that one had to give away a certain percentage of one's belongings. THis was key. It turns out that getting rid of clutter isn't the purpose. THe purpose is to let go of harmful attachments in one's mind and heart, according to my interpretation. One time, Dr. Richard Schulze, John's top student, had a case of a woman who did the program perfectly, but she still had, as I remember, breast cancer. So, Richard, who was a black belt in karate, put on his karate suit and took his machete to her house. She had not gotten rid of a portion of her possessions as instructed. He got there and went through her house forcing her to let go of stuff. He walked by college diploma and saw her grab her chest, when she saw it. He grabbed the diploma and asked her about it. She said her parents forced her to go to college. So, he ripped up her diploma. SHe felt relieved. SHe resented going to college and he said to let it all go. Going through her house, he forced her to get rid of stuff that made her feel bad. In the end, she did recover, but only after letting go of her obsessions and stinking thinking, which was tied to what she kept in her living space and in her mind. SO in her case, she did the physical cleansing, but until she cleansed her heart and mind of stagnating emotion, she couldn't fully recover.

So, the elevation of the mind and heart in conjunction with the hard work (suffering) is what gets the job done.

Here it's worth noting John Christopher's explanation for why some patients don't get well:

1) they did not follow instructions
2) they had an investment in their disease/illness
[Tai: I have seen this so commonly in worker's comp cases when they are trying to apply for disability.]
3) it was their time to go

On earth, the environment is being destroyed with pollution. Pharmaceutical drugs are now in drinking water. The use of natural methods like vegan herbal medicine actually upgrades people's moral quality, because it teaches forest preservation, organic farming and living in harmony with the ecosystem and not destroying it like modern science has done. So, the last thing I will say Living Food, which is already the path that you are walking on, is that natural healing using whole foods and herbs is actually an upgrading of the mind and heart in and of itself compared to the pharmaceutical way. And it is the upgrading of the mind and heart that is key when karma transformation takes place to improve one's life and health.

So, a recap: meticulous natural healing does cause suffering and transforms some karma particles into good energy. It also washes away a lot of attachments and vice from a person. But natural healing is limited and cannot touch extreme karmic conditions. Even conventional medicine is limited dealing with deformities, mental retardation and fatal conditions from birth. If someone can use natural healing to get well, it often benefits the person to do so, on many levels. Natural healing has many levels of personal responsibility.

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So you had a personal mystical revelation. Millions of people throughout history have had their own person revelations as well.


Many people have heard their god say that everyone else must worship him or go to hell and much violence ensues. Some people have experiences that says the earth must be healed. Some people hear that the end times will arrive on a specified date, etc etc.

The revelations themselves are frequently authentic, but many of them come from undesirable sources imo. There would also be cases of information from benevolent sources that people misinterpret because their level of understanding is too low, and then they cause all sorts of trouble.

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That's fine if you incorporate that into your world view, but to downplay the work people do healing others, for instance a john rose or tai, is not really fair, and to be honest seems a bit ignorant to attribute their healing to some archaic rule meant to govern peoples behavior.

Natural healing in the way that Tai and John Rose frequently do it (teaching diet and living strategies) is not at all a bad thing as I see it because the responsibility lies on the sick person themself to shift their lifestyle and make the necessary changes. When it becomes a problem imo is when people go around healing folks who are not ready or willing to make changes in their lifestyles and just want a quick fix without taking any responsibility. But if that healing is the impetus necessary to make the person change their views and lifestyle (as in the case of Lou it sounds like) then that is a different story.

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some archaic rule meant to govern peoples behavior.

Many things could be said about that, but I think I will refrain

Tezcal: If everyone all thought on the same level human life wouldn't fulfill its function, so I am not at all disturbed that you and others disagree with me. It's all good

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“Old age is not a time of life. It is a condition of the body. It is not time that ages the body, it is abuse that does.” -Herbert Shelton

“Aging is the result of Time poorly lived...whereas Time is the vehicle of aging.” -John Thomas

“Aging is not a matter of time alone; it is the rate at which we permit our bodies to decay over a period of time.” -Daniel Reid, “The Tao Of Health Sex And Longevity” p. 362

“Old age is a highly toxic condition caused by nutritional deficiencies and an unhealthy lifestyle.” -Paul Bragg

“Thus all symptoms of aging are latent disease, accumulations of mucus and clogging-up by mucus.” -Arnold Ehret, “Rational Fasting” p. 39

“Disease, old age, and death are the result of accumulated poisons and congestions throughout the entire body. These toxins became crystallized and hardened, settling around the joints, in the muscles, and throughout the billions of cells all over the body.” -Stanley Borroughs, “The Master Cleanser” p. 6

“The health challenges that the elderly in our country face are merely a reflection of a life poorly lived. Indeed, the elderly are failures at living simply because they refuse to look in the mirror.” -John Rose

John - do you believe we can live forever in perfect health?