What are your experiences with eating raw spinach? Has it caused any problems in the long run?

Do you believe that the presence of oxalic acid makes raw spinach a dangerous food to eat on a daily basis?

There seems to be no consensus on this, on the archives of this forum, or on the internet, or even in the health books. Shelton says raw spinach is not good, Fuhrman recommends it. I'm not sure, but for the time being I'm following my intuition and eating substantial amounts of it daily.

Any renewed discussion or thoughts on this would be helpful. Thanks.

It is a poison like many other poisons that plants contain, so best to minimize.

people recommend spinach because they don't think people will eat enough to cause harm, so both shelton and fuhrman are right in a way.

Always best to limit the spinach, but we can also take strong protective measures against oxalate food induced hyperoxaluria by taking foods high in sulfated polysachharide sugars such as brown seaweeds and fenugreek sprout juice. We can also take fermented foods regularly to hopefully allow the intestines to break down the oxalic acid easier so it doesn't chelate with minerals and act as a strong anti nutrient. We may also take fermented foods with the spinach.

www.thesproutarian.com

It is believed that baby spinach contains less oxalate, luckily this is the type routinely sold in shops here so this is what we eat. I do try and limit to one significant source of oxalate daily; e.g. if spinach is on the menu today then I would avoid beetroot and parsley, etc.

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<

chat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is believed that baby spinach contains less
> oxalate,

Yes it does compared to spinach grown longer, BUT that does not mean that all baby spinach will have less oxalate than older spinach because various factors such as seasons and growing conditions can influence oxalic acid levels. You often see charts saying various foods are high in oxalic acid where other foods are low in oxalic acid, BUT sometimes it is the reverse and plants usually known to be low in oxalic acid can be very high in oxalic acid etc. Same goes with nutrition levels and other anti nutrients in plants, it all can vary widely.

www.thesproutarian.com

My gut instinct is that it's okay- I like eating it in small amounts when very fresh. I wouldn't eat a whole bag of it though, my tastebuds definitely say 'that's enough' after a certain amount.

Beetroot on the other hand does not agree with me, which I would call it harmful, from my personal experience.

Its more difficult for me, I love baby spinach in smoothies and salads, and I could eat raw beetroot salads 3 times a day its so tasty. But because of these stupid oxalates, I have to limit myself

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<

I never heard of raw spinach being bad. I frequently use it in raw juice remedy to aid colon function, and have had good results. I have heard, though, that cooked spinach is bad, as it converts vital oxalic acid to inorganic, which is said to be harmful to the body, Inorganic oxalic acid converts to crystals in the kidney. Info from Dr. Norman Walker, " Fresh Vegetable Juices".

I only once made fresh raw spinach juice and I drank like 400 ml in one sitting (which was way too much). Then I experienced a severe gall bladder attack and the doctor said to avoid spinach from now on. In the past I used to make spinach pesto or spinach smoothie / soup and I was fine each time. But the juice gave me adverse reactions, as it was more potent.

I don't eat beetroot, I don't like it's sweetness and earthiness. I don't like parsley either, it's bitter to me, but today I want to make a green juice with butter lettuce and parsley.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Raw vegan for life. Vegan for the animals. Raw for my health.

sproutman

<<but we can also take strong protective measures against oxalate food induced hyperoxaluria by taking foods high in sulfated polysachharide sugars such as brown seaweeds and fenugreek sprout juice>>

1) Can you post an article on this? Im really interested.
2) Does dulse count as a food that has sulfated polysaccharide sugars? even though it is PURPLE seaweed and not brown.
3) Can you mention more things ( groups of food or specific foods) that have these compounds? How do they work to ameliorate the affects of oxalates?

Thanks!

sproutman

also , do you have any studies that show how probiotics alleviates affects of oxalates as well? I think you had some peer reviewed article a while back. I'll remember to save it this time.

BTW, interestingly, (most likely only to me), I posted several times about the symbiotic anaerobic bacteria O.formigenes fantastic ability to break down oxalates for us. No one seemed to have any real interest in the subject - even, to my surprise at that time, TSM, despite him then bringing it up, in another thread later, as a new WOW subject matter that he intended to write a book on and totally blowing me off saying he didn't want to talk anymore on that thread when I brought it to his attention. He said he was too bored or something.

Just a note to, probably, myself.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BTW, interestingly, (most likely only to me), I
> posted several times about the symbiotic anaerobic
> bacteria O.formigenes fantastic ability to break
> down oxalates for us. No one seemed to have any
> real interest in the subject - even, to my
> surprise at that time, TSM, despite him then
> bringing it up, in another thread later, as a new
> WOW subject matter that he intended to write a
> book on and totally blowing me off saying he
> didn't want to talk anymore on that thread when I
> brought it to his attention. He said he was too
> bored or something.
>
> Just a note to, probably, myself.

Suez, this subject is of immense interest to me. At the time l chose to not engage myself in the topic because it is a highly interesting subject l would have wanted to devote sufficient time to. At that time l recall l was heavily into researching another subject area and l didn't want to get side tracked at that time. The topic you brought up is so interesting that l may have been side tracked for a week or more, so l had to avoid talking about it at the time because l wanted to devote good time to writing a decent response. Note: for some topics a half hearted reply simply will not do.

la_veronique: yes l do have those studies and can answer all of those questions.

I'll make a note of this topic and get back to it. I want to write on this subject when l am focussed.

www.thesproutarian.com

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > BTW, interestingly, (most likely only to me), I
> > posted several times about the symbiotic
> anaerobic
> > bacteria O.formigenes fantastic ability to
> break
> > down oxalates for us. No one seemed to have any
> > real interest in the subject - even, to my
> > surprise at that time, TSM, despite him then
> > bringing it up, in another thread later, as a
> new
> > WOW subject matter that he intended to write a
> > book on and totally blowing me off saying he
> > didn't want to talk anymore on that thread when
> I
> > brought it to his attention. He said he was too
> > bored or something.
> >
> > Just a note to, probably, myself.




> Suez, this subject is of immense interest to me.
> At the time l chose to not engage myself in the
> topic because it is a highly interesting subject l
> would have wanted to devote sufficient time to. At
> that time l recall l was heavily into researching
> another subject area and l didn't want to get side
> tracked at that time. The topic you brought up is
> so interesting that l may have been side tracked
> for a week or more, so l had to avoid talking
> about it at the time because l wanted to devote
> good time to writing a decent response. Note: for
> some topics a half hearted reply simply will not
> do.


That is not at all how things went down and you must know it - that is if you are not completely living in your own fantasyland.

Probably worse than the oxalate problem is the nitrate problem, even with organic. The plants of the Goosefoot Family (Chenopodiaceae), spinach, beet, pigweed (Amaranthus), Swiss chard, and goosefoot or lamb's quarters; are all nitrate accumulaters and will become poisonous with high nitrate concentrations if fertilized very much at all (even organic fertilizer). And since nitrogen fertilizer makes them grow nice big and vigorous with beautiful rich green color, almost all growers over fertilize.

2 horses were once put in an old corral (large amounts of manure high in nitrates) that was overgrown with very healthy, richly green, spinach relatives, goosefoot and pigweed. The next morning both horses were dead from nitrate poisoning.

If grown with little or no fertilizer, spinach and it's relatives are very good food.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2015 07:44PM by brome.

Here's a good article:

[www.researchgate.net]

"Vegetables eaten by people every day usually
contribute about 72-94% of the total daily intake of
nitrate (Shen
et al
., 1982; Dich
et al
., 1996; Eichholzer
& Gutzwiller, 1998). Leafy vegetables occupy a very
important place in the human diet, but unfortunately
constitute a group of foods which contributes maximally
to nitrate consumption by living beings (Anjana
et al
.,
2007). Study done by Anjana
et al
. (2006) on samples
of leafy vegetables collected from the local markets of
Delhi has revealed that a significant number of Spinach
and Chenopodium samples contained nitrate in
concentrations higher than the Acceptable Daily Intake
(ADI) limit for an average 60 kg person (if consumed at
100 g/d). This causes various health related problems
in humans and livestock. Intake of high amounts of N-
nitroso compounds by humans may increase the risk of
nasopharyngeal and esophageal cancer (Eichholzer &
Gutzwiller, 1998). As green vegetables are consumed
by many pregnant women as a good source of iron,
high nitrate content can cause pregnancy failure. It can
also cause various other diseases in humans like
stomach cancer Non-Hodgkin’s Lymphoma. Thus
reducing nitrate content in vegetables can decrease a
risk of human illness (Luo
et al
., 2006). A reduction in
nitrate content can add value to vegetable products
already very popular for their nutritional and therapeutic
properties (Santamaria, 2006). "

brome Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Probably worse than the oxalate problem is the
> nitrate problem, even with organic.

But Brome, we humans have anaerobic symbiotic bacteria to handle that, too, both on our tongues and in our lower intestines. If our digestion has been so compromised that it needs help reestablishing those colonies we can accomplish that help, in part, by eating lignin containing foods which will serve as prebiotics for those good bacteria.

Also one big thing we can do to help our bodies to be better able to break down nitrates to nitric oxide is to fuel ourselves with raw plant foods which are high in Arginine. One of the highest raw vegan foods in Arginine is spinach.

The info (above) on degradation of oxalates is most welcome.

As far as I can glean, the root of the beet contains relatively little oxalates. Not saying this as absolute fact, though.

[www.whfoods.com]

If all these common foods drain, or prevent absorption of, minerals, why were they consumed? Traditional, pre-science, pre-technology peoples were nobody's fools. They had their own understanding of food "energies". My own thinking is that they were aware of the dangers of excess mineral (esp. in meat) but understood this only in an instinctive way. I do think I recall some food philospher opining in this direction. FWIW.

This is an interesting read, also:

[kristinalupp.com]

I no longer consume spinach and beet greens, but, boy, I can't get enough beet root. I get no ill effects, but I do from chocolate/cocoa.