It looks from your reports on what you are eating at present that you don't eat any fat at all. seems a lot less than 8-1-1What is your thinking here?

Secondly, it looks like you don't eat a plethora of raw greens - celery is not so terribly green, nor is romaine (well that's not necessarily true). No kale, chard, spinach etc. Do you have any concern about not getting mineralized enough?

I ask this not to be contentious, but because I respect your process and am interested in your thinking.

Thank you!

PG

I tried low-fat raw fruitarian for a long time. I have another friend who did as well. It is incredibly unworkable and dangerous in the long term. Your fruit and greens would have to be of better quality than anything you can find anywhere. Think about it--chimps eat this way, and some birds eat this way, but neither gets as big as the average human. You can't build or maintain a normal-sized human body on this diet. Either your skeleton and teeth will suffer, or your organs, including your brain, will. The mental degeneration is slow, insidious, and very hard to reverse. It has taken me years to recover from the panic attack problems brought on by eating this way. My body was literally consuming the fat in my brain to stay alive.

I'm serious, I tried it, it doesn't work. Eat some fat. coconut oil, olive oil, sesame oil, avocadoes, olives, whatever.

ooh... interesting post...

I've always thought that God made avocadoes and olives delicious and easily accessible fruits for a reason... acai berries and durian I believe also are fairly fatty, if I remember correctly?

Hello there,

I'm not Bryan, but I just had to respond to what someone else posted in response to your questions. Eating a high fruit, low fat diet is very enjoyable and sustainable. I feel better than I ever have eating this way. And no, I don't worry about not getting enough minerals.

All the best,

Audrey
www.rawhealing.com

chilove Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello there,
>
> Eating a high fruit, low fat diet is very
> enjoyable and sustainable. I feel better than I
> ever have eating this way. And no, I don't worry
> about not getting enough minerals.

What about the long term effect. The diet is a cleanser and very good in the short term but ....

I suppose i Know WHY Brian is NOT answering..

no wonder.
Yet ...

IF mysterious: al27052 have tried it without gaining enough knowledge, OR BEING VERY SICK When trying ..than..:

NO WONDER.

If He had parasites eating him away.. no wonder panic attacks developed. Read some of Dr Clark work.., Dr Douglas Graham..

..Not sustainable.. What IS short term to You Mr/Ms AL..?
How long HAVE You done iT..
Have You been healthy when starting on ANY diet..
What was Your Menu.
Why don't You Tell us, instead of giving quite unreasonable rants"with no good backing.

Most people do not know where does FAT Come from, OR What is it's function..
/ To make it short;
Fat IS concentrated energy, which takes LONG TIME to digest/ turn into energy:
YET Since it is a form of STORING energy for later re absorbtion... EXCESS Of sugar in a healthy organism is being turned INTO FAT.

Another function IS: Protecting cells. Like When you Eat TO MUCH of fat, or protein too much acid is being produced as a side effect of body trying to digest it. ACID is dissolving our veins because of its caustic neture, and body is removing excess of acid bonding/using fat for this very purpose. Of course loosing a lots of energy, vitamins and minerals.
That's how it is protecting healthy cells from being damaged, and burned. Same story with Cancer. Toxic caustic liquid that parasites produce as a byproduct of THEIR living, eating.. is burning, or over stimulating with their foreign hormones growth of new cells. = Mutating our own cells. Body will "ENCLOSE" cancerous tissue by creating tumor.."FAT".

SO..: Eating ENOUGH of simple sugars allows for body to store it in a form of FAT, and eating ANY Vegetable, or fruit we deliver a LITTLE of "extra" fat and vitamines, aminoacids, omega acids..

I am Very sorry that You've had experienced UNPLEASANT side effects, but YOU are in 100% responsible for it. Allowing yourself to try without ANY Knowledge of "bodyli functions" to try nature diet, and making mistakes. Mistake is: no Knowledge, or: not enough to be able to explain to somebody else so they would understand and agreed: that it makes clear point and SEEMS to be good.

If somebody would tell you to jump into fire....
YET!.. some people do it, and do not get burned.. WELL.. with rubber shoes, socks YOU WILL Surely get burned..
but with wet feet.. it is possible to walk on fire"" without ANY Consequences.

Hope it'll clarify a little a "FAT SCARE".

Take care.

Free, Open source.Healthy
F.E.A.R. is
an acronym that stands for, False Evidence Appearing Real
F.A.I.T.H. - the First Attribute IN Thoughtful
Health

I tried it for about 18 months. I was eating 25-30 bananas a day, or sometimes other fruits like persimmon, sapote, etc, plus leafy greens. I was getting enogh calories, that wasn't the issue. My weight was stable.

The diet is very dangerous. I've known several other people to have major problems on it, including serious acne.

The teeth problems are absolutely legendary.

It's not possible that everyone would prosper from the same diet.
I don't think anyone here has been perfectly nourished from conception, so we all have different imbalances.
Why would anyone believe that what works for them should work for everyone. I like hearing about diet anecdotes and have learned or been reminded of so much valuable information from them, but I would no more be spoonfed someone else's SHOULDS than I would expect them to blindly accept my dictates.
I spent a few years trying a natural hygiene diet and could never make it work for me, though I completely agreed with its tenets. Later I tried Wigmore's diet principles, which felt much better. Now I expect my diet to vary with my needs and I'm open to valid options I come across. I know that when I'm in the tropics I love to eat lots of fresh raw fruit, but here in Vancouver, I crave lots of greens. As long as I'm 100% raw vegan I feel I'm on the right track for me.

Practically nobody succeeds on this diet. long-term. If it were possible, then you'd see a primate that was the same size as a human that ate this diet. What you actually see is chimps, much smaller than humans, eating this diet, and they are absolutely the largest animal that eats it. Orangutans and gorillas eat a diet much, much higher in fat.

I am about 95% raw, give or take, and have been for about 6 years now. I have been 100% up to 18 months at a time. I am not, currently, a vegan, and I think, overall, than veganism can be pretty dangerous in the long-term. You are all working from theory, I am working from experience. i was exactly where all of you are now, 6 years ago. If you eat plenty of seaweeds, coconuts, greens, olives, and fermented foods, you MIGHT can be a healthy vegan, long-term. Might. Take a look at


www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library/price/pricetoc.html

Dr. Weston Price found that natives had excellent health and teeth when eating their traditional diets, but started getting sick when they switched to western foods.

They got crooked teeth, cavities, heart disease, cancer, diabetes, birth defects, and other health problems.

Many of the native groups were almost 100% raw, including the Eskimos.

None were vegan.

The healthiest groups were the ones that ate certain animal products, including fish eggs, shellfish, and certain organ meats. Nearly all groups valued fish eggs, shellfish, seaweeds, and certain organ meats for health and reproduction.

I recovered from my panic attacks using raw animal foods. I'm not saying that's the only way, but it works for me.

I am aware that there are dangers with animal products. There are also dangers associated with eating absolutely no animal products.

I'm speaking as someone who has been there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2007 06:57PM by al27052.

The research of Weston Price is valuable, but much has changed in the world of nutrition since he published his book in the 1930's. In the 1930's it was not safe to eat vegan, now it is.

I was a fruitarian for three years and everything was great. For the past year however, I noticed my cravings for carbohydrates (junk food) slowly increase and now it has taken over. I'm tryin very very hard to get back to the fruitarian diet. I tried it for three months and I couldn't last for three days, not even two. I dun't know why but could it be deficiencies my body is facing or maybe it's my lack of willpower. I was on the diet and I lost about 25 lbs. Now I've gained it all back.
From my experience, when I was on the diet, I felt a lot happier. My wounds healed better. My skin was better. I looked good. Now I feel sluggish and fatigue a lot. I might be carb and sugar sensitive. Though I keep cheating even though I said I will be a full-fledged fruitarian again, I won't give up. I just know that if I can do it in the past, I can do it again. I'm trying differend food combinations in hopes that I can keep at the diet again.
But from trying for three months and failing, it's very very disencouraging. I want to get back to the diet cos'I felt it was my identity.
What my point is from my story is that this diet may not work for everyone but if you really put your heart in to it, it might work for you. As for me, i guess I didn't have as much heart as I did three years ago.

eat them fruits
drink them greenz

you'll be just fine

Hmmm...seems to me you just gotta try a few different ways to see what works for you. I think just being RAW is ten times better than what I was eating before. I suppose once I get a bit further down the path, I'll be able to determine which route I should go.

Sometimes the raw path is just as confusing as all the other diets. On the S.A.D. front = One day oatmeal is the wonder food, then it's not. Then it's SOY...then it's not.

There's the raw GREEN camp and the raw FRUITARIAN camp and each seem to bicker about whose diet is the correct one. Anyway, it's just something I've observed since I started reading these boards.

Regardless, I like to see what everyone else is doing and how all are faring with their choices.

I've been doing Doug's diet for over 4 years, and I don't have health problems. However, I did have plenty of health problems before I went raw.

Piano Gal,

I only gave 4 days worth of food. Its hard to generalize what I eat the other 361 days of the year. I do eats fats, just not every day. Not even every other day. I'll eat more fats in the winter because the fruit isn't as sweet as in the summer.

On 80-10-10, one can have 10% fat on average per day. Most foods have a minimum of 5% fat. This means that other 5% of calories could come from overt fats. On a 2000 calorie a day plan, this is 100 calories of overt fat.

However, if you don't eat overt fats every day, for example once every three day, this means that on the day you eat fat, you could eat 300 calories of overt fats. This is a whole avocado.

As for greens, I do eat typically a head of lettuce or a stalk of celery when I eat greens. I find that I do not desire or crave the other greens, but every so often I will eat some bok choy, spinach, kale, miner's lettuce, mallow, arugula, plaintain. Dr Graham recommends 3% to 5% of the calories coming from greens, and I may be a bit short in this department. If my body desires more greens, I eat them.

thinking and mostly your steady spirit, which is easily palpable behind your words. Sorry for the heat you took on this question. I didn't see that coming or I would have emailed you privately! Funny, the tendency to make one another the enemy.

Thanks for clarifying. Makes sense. I have to say, after trying Cousens for six months - giving it the full college try, less fat, more fruit and very much more greens works very well I am finding, with, as you said, about 120 calories a day of fats.

Thanks for your quiet pioneering spirit,

PG

i too must comment on your peaceful and skillful reply
thank you

Hey Bryan I've always had the upmost respect for you...keep doing your thang man!!!

There seems to be a lot of hate here lately and it really sucks but in Bryan we have a strong voice of reason!!....Live and let live guys!!!!

F1

I've probably alluded to this before, but I'm a pompom girl for true manhood - that steady. loving radiance, that like the sun - the symbol for the true masculine in our solar system - simply shines, radiates love, steadily on all. It rejoices me no end that we have so many examples of this on our dear little board. the world is literally starving for such mem.the world will not make it without true men. Bless you, men! Shine on! I love you!

Piano Gal

Not only is it true manhood that this world needs, but it's the brotherhood of true men that, well, makes my knees weak. It's this brotherhood that we need so much on this planet. Women don't know it, but we will never know a real sense of safety until the brotherhood is in place - as my sacred other calls it - the male matrix.

Most often men engage through "buck wars" - challenging each other for supremacy. It is so boring, so destructive, so childish, so animal. You, Fruitarian One, givng Bryan agreement for what is so true and right about him....I'm waving my pompoms - and I've got a lump in my throat.

Shine on, wonderful men!

80:10:10 doesn't work for humans. Been there, done that. You need more fat to build and maintain a human-sized skeleton. Chimps get no bigger than about 120 lbs., usually no more than 85. Orangs, who eat a higher-fat diet, top out at 250 lbs., usually no more than 160. Gorillas, who eat a very high-fat diet, top out at aroun 450 lbs.

al27052 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 80:10:10 doesn't work for humans.

Hmmm....doesn't work for humans, or didn't work for you? That particular diet seems to work great for a few people on here!

I think a few people are either a. lying, or b. in for serious health problems down the road. I know plenty of people who have had serious health problems flare up on 80:10:10, and in all cases it is awful for your teeth.

al27052, what about cows then, they grow prety big on their diet of grass?

Rob

--
Rob Hull - Funky Raw
My blog: [www.rawrob.com]

Where do you think most of the calories in grass come from? It's Fat, it's Fat, it's Fat....that goes for most, if not all, leafy/grassy green foods.

And the 80/10/10 diet does not exclude greens!

Rob

--
Rob Hull - Funky Raw
My blog: [www.rawrob.com]

I was one of those people who had a serious health problem flare up on 80/10/10. I had been doing raw foods for 10 months, 5 months 100% raw on the high fat transitional diet. I heard Doug Graham speak a Raw Passion, and implemented the 80/10/10. I increased my fruit intake, dropped my fat intake, and cut out all spices and condiments. In one week, I felt so weak and tired that it was necessary for me to take time off from work. My chronic fatigue had become very very acute. I couldn't keep myself awake on my commute to work, at work I was falling asleep all the time, and I generally couldn't function.

At the time, I knew that these symptoms couldn't be because of nutritional deficiencies. I had only been on 80/10/10 one week - not enough time to develop deficiencies. I was eating enough calories - I checked fitday. My body just wanted to rest.

It wasn't eating fruit that caused this state of extreme fatigue. It was that I cut out the stimulants in my diet that were supporting me: the salt, spices, condiments like vinegar, nama shoyu, etc. Without this stimulation in my body, and after I had some time to clean that stuff out, my body said "now would be a good time to rest". My previous lifestyle had me overworking, drinking caffeine and taking other stimulants. It was the years of not getting enough rest that were catching up with me, and the 80/10/10 diet allowed my body to see what it really needed - tons of rest.

At this point I had the option to be a victim, to say that the 80/10/10 diet was making me sick and that I should go back to my previous diet. That certainly would have made the symptoms go away. But I would not have healed all the things I did by getting all the rest I got. During this time off from work (4 months), my body healed so much. All my chronic illnesses disappeared. I was able to gain weight during this time, and the gauntness that had been in my face since I started raw went away, and my face began to fill in and soften.

I slept like crazy during this time. The first month I was sleeping 16 to 18 hours a day. Each month the sleep per day dropped a few hours, and by the end of the 4th month, I was only sleeping 10 hours a day. During this time I took a trip to Thailand, my first time there as an adult (and raw foodist) and discovered the joy of fresh durian! But mostly in Thailand I slept alot, and my energy and health was increasing the more I slept.

You need more fat that the 80:10:10 allows. Humans can't get very much nutrition from greens, especially the darker greens, which contain much more fat and minerals. We don't have the kind of intestines that allow that, unlike gorillas.

al27052 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Humans can't get very much nutrition from greens,
> especially the darker greens, which contain much
> more fat and minerals. We don't have the kind of
> intestines that allow that, unlike gorillas.

We can now with high speed blenders making dark green superior food for humans

al27052>I am a big believer in coconut and coconut oil.

I am originally from a small village in Guyana,S.A. where everyone had coconut trees in their yards and everyone made oil from the nuts to use in cooking.I didn't see any particular health benefit in using coconut oil and I used it for 3 decades(because there was nothing else to use)and only stopped when I came to the USA in the nineties.In fact,I think it may have contributed to the high incidence of stroke among the people in my village.

brian1cs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...and everyone made oil from the nuts to use in cooking.

You can't infer anything from using a food cooked to using it raw, it just doesn't work like that. Surely that's the whole point of the raw diet!

Rob

--
Rob Hull - Funky Raw
My blog: [www.rawrob.com]