organic1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You tend to think far too absolute, as if everyone
> is living life with a clean slate and 100% health.
> Many people have been in poor health from birth
> due to nutritional deficiencies acquired through
> their parents.
>
> Like i say, i know plenty individuals who eat,
> exercise and live healthy, yet they still suffer
> from various health problems.

when you can show me one, let me know. until then your theory on the need and value of medicinal herbs/spices fails to impress.


>We see enough raw vegans on this forum alone to prove that vegans like Kristina also run into the exact same health problems proven by their poor blood tests.

I disagree with your statement of alleged facts.

> Also plenty of raw vegans in the movement still running into health problems despite eating 80/10/10 too.

"running into health problems" has nothing to do with my question since people often don't take care of b12 or whatever else. and that has nothing to do with a need for herbs or spices.




and I am not talking about people with ptsd

Because people have used something doesn't mean anything.


>Ginkgo (Ginkgo biloba) has been used in traditional medicine to treat circulatory disorders and enhance memory.

ok, if you're doing something wrong healthwise ginkgo can have an effect on the circulatory system, allegedly. my point as I have been saying over and over is that there are better and more valid ways to fix ones circulation and memory by living healthfully. in other words these herbal effects are for people who are sick and don't want to or don't know how to do the right things to get well.


>Kava kava (Piper methysticum) is said to elevate mood, enhance wellbeing and contentment, and produce a feeling of relaxation. Several studies show that kava may help treat anxiety, insomnia, and related nervous disorders. However, there is serious concern that kava may cause liver damage.

I am quite certain that there are better ways to elevate mood. In other words for people who are sick and not doing healthful things kava kava may have an effect. just the same as weed has an effect.


>Saw palmetto (Serenoa repens) is used by more than 2 million men in the United States for the treatment of benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH), a noncancerous enlargement of the prostate gland.

more stuff for sick people that would be better served by eating better and doing other health practices.


>St. John's wort (Hypericum perforatum) is well known for its antidepressant effects.

better ways to heal depression, for example stop eating JUNK.

In general, most studies have shown that St. John's wort may be an effective treatment for mild-to-moderate depression, and has fewer side effects than most other prescription antidepressants. But the herb interacts with a wide variety of medications, including birth control pills, and can potentially cause unwanted side effects, so it is important to take it only under the guidance of a health care provider.


>>Valerian (Valeriana officinalis) is a popular alternative to commonly prescribed medications for sleep problems because it is considered to be both safe and gentle. Some studies bear this out, although not all have found valerian to be effective. Unlike many prescription sleeping pills, valerian may have fewer side effects, such as morning drowsiness. However, Valerian does interact with some medications, particularly psychiatric medications, so you should speak to your doctor to see if Valerian is right for you.


Same as above


>Echinacea preparations (from Echinacea purpurea and other Echinacea species) may improve the body's natural immunity. Echinacea is one of the most commonly used herbal products, but studies are mixed as to whether it can help prevent or treat colds. A review of 14 clinical studies examining the effect of echinacea on the incidence and duration of the common cold found that echinacea supplements decreased the odds of getting a cold by 58%. It also shortened the duration of a cold by 1.4 days. Echinacea can interact with certain medications and may not be right for people with certain conditions, for example people with autoimmune disorders or certain allergies.

stop doing things that get you a "cold"

>turmeric...the spice has a long tradition in Asian medicine to treat problems ranging from flatulence to hemorrhage. Use to treat ringworm, as a poultice, for pain, and in the management of jaundice and hepatitis has been documented. Turmeric is used as a spice in curry powders and mustard.

whatever. maybe I like flatulence !

and there is some evidence regarding cancer treatment but prevention is better and there are many items that have an effect on cancer cells.

all in all, much ado about nothing.

Because people have used something doesn't mean anything.


>Ginkgo (Ginkgo biloba) has been used in traditional medicine to treat circulatory disorders and enhance memory.

ok, if you're doing something wrong healthwise ginkgo can have an effect on the circulatory system, allegedly. my point as I have been saying over and over is that there are better and more valid ways to fix ones circulation and memory by living healthfully. in other words these herbal effects are for people who are sick and don't want to or don't know how to do the right things to get well.


>Kava kava (Piper methysticum) is said to elevate mood, enhance wellbeing and contentment, and produce a feeling of relaxation. Several studies show that kava may help treat anxiety, insomnia, and related nervous disorders. However, there is serious concern that kava may cause liver damage.

I am quite certain that there are better ways to elevate mood. In other words for people who are sick and not doing healthful things kava kava may have an effect. just the same as weed has an effect.


>Saw palmetto (Serenoa repens) is used by more than 2 million men in the United States for the treatment of benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH), a noncancerous enlargement of the prostate gland.

more stuff for sick people that would be better served by eating better and doing other health practices.


>St. John's wort (Hypericum perforatum) is well known for its antidepressant effects.

better ways to heal depression, for example stop eating JUNK.

In general, most studies have shown that St. John's wort may be an effective treatment for mild-to-moderate depression, and has fewer side effects than most other prescription antidepressants. But the herb interacts with a wide variety of medications, including birth control pills, and can potentially cause unwanted side effects, so it is important to take it only under the guidance of a health care provider.


>>Valerian (Valeriana officinalis) is a popular alternative to commonly prescribed medications for sleep problems because it is considered to be both safe and gentle. Some studies bear this out, although not all have found valerian to be effective. Unlike many prescription sleeping pills, valerian may have fewer side effects, such as morning drowsiness. However, Valerian does interact with some medications, particularly psychiatric medications, so you should speak to your doctor to see if Valerian is right for you.


Same as above


>Echinacea preparations (from Echinacea purpurea and other Echinacea species) may improve the body's natural immunity. Echinacea is one of the most commonly used herbal products, but studies are mixed as to whether it can help prevent or treat colds. A review of 14 clinical studies examining the effect of echinacea on the incidence and duration of the common cold found that echinacea supplements decreased the odds of getting a cold by 58%. It also shortened the duration of a cold by 1.4 days. Echinacea can interact with certain medications and may not be right for people with certain conditions, for example people with autoimmune disorders or certain allergies.

stop doing things that get you a "cold"

>turmeric...the spice has a long tradition in Asian medicine to treat problems ranging from flatulence to hemorrhage. Use to treat ringworm, as a poultice, for pain, and in the management of jaundice and hepatitis has been documented. Turmeric is used as a spice in curry powders and mustard.

whatever. maybe I like flatulence !

and there is some evidence regarding cancer treatment but prevention is better and there are many items that have an effect on cancer cells.

all in all, much ado about nothing.

all these treatments and medicines actually make things worse as people never learn about health, they just do bad things and try to self treat, often with poor results and side effects.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2015 07:31PM by fresh.

>>Take a vietnam or war vetern with post-traumatic stress disorder for example, no amount of diet, resting or a exercise barely helps improve the mental state or well-being of these individuals.

your statement above is strange and clearly based upon nothing.

>>>Post traumatic stress disorders, CFS and autonomic nervous system dysfunction are generally considered "incurable" by allopathic medicine, with treatment generally focused on lowering symptoms and improving quality of life.
There are people who have encountered life events that change their body chemistry for life, giving them a significant disadvantage when it comes to general health, well-being and their now dysfunctional responses to stress.
These people have real physiological dysfunctions such as hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis dysregulation, hypocortisolism/low cortisol, autonomic nervous system dysfunction, how do you propose to treat that mr big shot with your simplistic lifestyle principles and dangerously deficient 80/10/10 style raw vegan diet ?

they should engage in proper health practices to restore homeostasis.

but they never do.

if they were to do so and it didn't help, certainly other things should be considered. I never said fruit and greens heals all.





>Clearly you have no idea what your talking about and are living in a fairytale land when it comes to preventing and treating serious health problems and chronic diseases.

you may have misinterpreted me as I have stated above.


>But if you think you can cure these type of often incurable chronic health disorders with just 80/10/10, some rest and exercise lol then i think you should start up your own practice. And lol at recommending exercise, most of these type of people are so disabled, debilitated and low in vitality that they can no longer exercise.

same as above. and you're talking generally about people who don't actually do what you claim does not help.


>Take some with chronic fatigue syndrome for example, a health condition with genetic components.

no it does not.

> Mitochondrial dysfunction is the true root cause of CFS, caused by oxidative stress disorders. Many of these individuals with CFS have been found to be deficient in co-enzyme q10 for example. Again without repleting Co-Q10 with supplements, how do you propose to stabilize the low-coq10 syndrome and prevent the proven increased risk of heart disease/chronic heart failure that comes with co-enzyme q10 deficiency.

Gee, I don't know, how about spinach broccoli and cauliflower???


>Not to be mean, but for someone who has such a staunch opinion, you have no clue what your talking about basically, your viewing life from a very black and white idealist point of view and its clear you have no experience of chronic health problems yourself, which is lucky for you.

you may want to reconsider based on my clarification above and also your ignorance of coq10 sources.

>>>Another good example from your post, someone who picks up a parasitic infection whilst their on holiday. These people might require pharmaceutical anti-parasitical medications to treat the infection. This is where anti-parasitical herbs may offer an alternative.

Yes there are rare exceptions.

>What is your NH method of dealing with a serious life threatening parasitical >infection ?
>Are you going to spend months of eating healthy and doing some exercise, >increasing your resting and other general healthy lifestyle principles lol.

>Another example, you have a car crash and develop life crippling severe anxiety disorder. What do you do ?
Your either forced to try pharmaceutical medications like anti-depressants or worse addictive benzodiazepines such as xanax and valium.

your hypotheticals are merely your own made up stories

>Cognitive behavior therapies which are often limited in efficiency. Or the alternative you could try would be some mild sedative nervine herbs such as passionflower or oatstraw, which help to support, tone and nourish the nervous system. Or even acupuncture to balance the hpa-axis and autonomic nervous system, both of which are commony dysfunctional after stressful and traumatic events, and play a role in the symptoms such as anxiety and panic attacks.

all of that is unnecessary with other options

>>>Anyway your basic principles for preventing disease are laughable, considering your star poster girl fully raw kristina most likely has insulin resistance and is fast on her way to cardiovascular disease from just 7 years following your type of diet and lifestyle advice, which is meant to be so robust at preventing any disease or health problem in the first place according to you and well just you really lol.

can't agree with you there. neither does her doctor.

>I'll stick with my plant based diet, afterall my blood results are perfectly fine and i do have experience of seemingly "incurable" health problems such as CFS and autonomic dysfunction.

easily cured.

>Those are just some good examples of where alternative medicine/herbs etc can play a valuable role in helping improve an individuals health and well-being.

not really.


>>Not to mention like i say, all the vegetarians and millions of other individuals who have lived healthy and still developed health problems. Not all health problems are diet and lifestyle related at the end of the day.


because they weren't living healthfully.

what do you use the below for besides seasoning?

black pepper, cinnamon, cloves, cumin seeds, coriander(cilantro) and mor

>>>Gee, I don't know, how about spinach broccoli and cauliflower???

and of course you don't just fix problems by ingesting supplements.
the body produces COQ10 and a poorly running body will have trouble synthesizing many nutrients. doesn't matter how much you ingest, many nutrients are not going to be used properly due to enzymatic or other issues. so get the body running better and improve the diet.

>Not to be mean, but for someone who has such a staunch opinion, you have no clue what your talking about basically, your viewing life from a very black and white idealist point of view and its clear you have no experience of chronic health problems yourself, which is lucky for you.

It's not idealist, it's naturalist, whereas you are medicinal/supplement/ based which is much less effective than wholistic thinking.

organic1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rectifying severe co-enzyme q10 deficiency with
> just broccoli, cauliflower and spinach lol.
>
> Good luck with that fresh.
>

Did I say somewhere JUST broccoli cauliflower and spinach?
of course not

> Also if you think you can cure a serious condition
> such as Post Traumatic Stress Disorder with just a
> healthy diet and lifestyle choices then like i say
> you should open up a practice ASAP.
>
> Also to claim no one with PTSD ever engages in
> healthy lifestyle habits is just a down-right kick
> in the teeth to these people. I know many
> individuals with PTSD who go above and beyond the
> call of nature to try and feel better and not wake
> up with nightmares, panic attacks and insomnia due
> to their conditions every day and night.
>
> Most of these individuals with PTSD have tried
> everything from exercise, healthy diet,
> supplements to pharmaceutical medications with
> little success. However you wouldn't understand
> that, because like i say you show that you know
> nothing about these sort of health problems or
> clearly don't seem to grasp how hard they are to
> typically treat successfully.

you're talking about the worst possible scenario, and I have already told you that I never said diet heals everything, AND NOT ONE of them went all raw I would bet.

>
> Your excessive sugar diet recommendations cause
> insulin resistance in as little as 7 years. So i
> don't think anyone is going to be taking your
> considerations to treat serious diseases or health
> problems too seriously.

It doesn't matter how much sugar unless it's more than your caloric needs and you're not getting enough minerals and the like. I am not asking anyone to take my considerations seriously.

you didn't say what you do with pepper and the other things.

Quote

In a portion of his tribute to Dr. Walker, Mr. Woodside
states: "Dr. N. W. Walker . . . departed from his physical
body . . . June 6, 1985." With his birthdate and date of
death confirmed, we now know that Dr. Walker died at the
ripe old age of 118 years and 4 months.

Now for some excerpts from this tribute:

"Dr. Norman W. Walker, famous author and pioneer in the
field of nutrition and health, particularly in the use of
FRESH RAW VEGETABLE JUICES, departed from his physical body,
limited to time and space, at his home in Cottonwood,
Arizona, the evening of June 6, 1985.

http://phillipkeen.tripod.com/nutrition/nw_walker.htm

Not sure what point you're trying to make "RP".

I already mentioned the Rev. Malkmus connection in an early posting on this same post. Please read.

What I didn't mention at the time was that I was contacted by email some years ago by one of the Reverend's associates, a Dr. somebody or other, as to proof of Walker's birth. I told him to look on Walker's tombstone, a photo of which is on the internet, but as I recall he said sometimes tombstones are incorrect. So I said I'd send him ONE of my documents showing both date & place of birth; I ended up being generous & sending him two different documents. Though the Malkmus Group never acknowledged their receipt (by snail-mail), I presume they were received since I didn't hear back otherwise. I do recall that the Malkmus site, from which Mr. Keen's above quotation appears, now has an asterick stating that there is now a question about the correct date of Walker's birth. Considering what I sent them, they can do something much more definitive than that nambey-pambey statement.

BTW, if anyone here wants to post such Walker documents on-line for public viewing, I'll be happy to furnish them. I am very low-tech by preference, so I can't do it myself.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2016 10:08PM by KFCA.

OK, I rechecked my records, and the guy who contacted me from Malkmus/Hallelujah Acres about "proof" was Dr. Michael Donaldson, who is/was apparently their Research Director.

You are correct.
Walker was among the first to teach the value of raw food and digestive health. I consider him still the best in the field. His approach was simple not too much relying on super foods. Juicing and eating regular local foods you grow yourself if possible. Millions of people are still juicing today.

But how he died and at what age still remain a mystery.

99 years was probably the correct age from this

Quote

Wikipedia takes a skeptic's view of Walker and says he died at 99. There's some evidence that's correct. It's also consistent with this 1933 New York Times account of a Norman Walker who ran a Brooklyn Institute of Ortho-Dietetics and was found guilty of bilking the institute's students out of $150 in tuition. That Norman Walker was 46 at the time; he would have been 99 in 1985.

[www.theatlantic.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2016 06:17AM by RawPracticalist.

Norman Walker Really Died at Age 99
[chetday.com]

Very interesting RP, especially since I wrote it maybe 6 or seven years ago.

As a minor epilogue to the Walker Family doings: Until I much later received a copy of Lydia Hannah Walker's March 1934 newspaper obituary (this would be NWW's mother, who died in San Francisco County, CA), I didn't know that there was an earlier Walker child, named Euphemia Walker, who apparently died in childhood, so there was actually a total of 7 children born to the family. They didn't likewise reproduce as only Elizabeth & David each had one son total. The others either didn't marry or had no children---as was the case with Norman.

BTW, I recently did more up-to-date back-checking on the NWW "birth story". I found a copy of Walker's mother's May 3, 1924 passport application on-line from when she & one of her daughters returned to Europe on a visit. According to her application, she was born on March 1, 1857 in Colmsburgh, Scotland, married Rev. Robert Walker, Norman's father, on March 7, 1882, & was widowed on June 9, 1917.

Based on Walker's alleged "natal day" of "January 28, 1867", which he inscribed on the back of the photo that seems to be in the possession of the Hallelujah Acres Group, his mother would have been only 10 years old when she gave birth to him in the legendary 117+ year age story attributed to him---& he wasn't even her first born!

Lydia Hannah Walker died in San Francisco, CA on her 77th birthday on March 1, 1934, where she had lived with her unmarried daughter, a SF schoolteacher, for many years.

Based on Walker's alleged "natal day" of "January 28, 1867", which he inscribed on the back of the photo that seems to be in the possession of the Hallelujah Acres Group, his mother would have been only 10 years old when she gave birth to him in the legendary 117+ year age story attributed to him---& he wasn't even her first born!

LOL!


Anyway, I am more interested in just how healthy he was (or wasn't) rather than if he died at 99 or 118 or whatever date.

It is a shame that Paavo Airola died at age of 64 of a stroke, because he had some good health suggestions.

Norman Walker was healthy, no issue on that.
It is reported that he died in his sleep past age 90 at least.
I am not sure if there was an autopsy to determine the real cause of death.
It would have been good to know especially for some one who wrote that we could become younger and live longer on raw food. [www.amazon.com]

The issue of his age is a good quest. Many raw food pioneers died young, Walker was an exception and it will be good to know what his real age was and what was the cause of death, and why was there a need to lie about his age as reported in some writings.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2016 09:14PM by RawPracticalist.

Unless somebody can produce a copy of his Arizona Death Certificate--which, unfortunately is only released to public view 50 years after death in that State--nobody has a clue as to how healthy or unhealthy Walker was when he died. I've already tried the autopsy route, and was unsuccessful in that Arizona Public Health Records do not show that an autopsy was performed on anybody named Norman W. Walker there. (Somewhat unbelieveably, while an Arizona death certificate is impossible for other than a close relative to obtain in Arizona within the first 50 years, an autopsy report, if such exists, is apparently an immediate public record, and anyone with either 50 cents or a dollar per page(can't remember which) can receive a copy with no problem!!) Weird....

Good point.

I would like to know the cause of his death. He died in his sleep is not enough for me. The book where I read how he died was Harvey Diamond and Marilyn Diamond "Fit For Life" where they wrote that because Walker died in his sleep that was indication that he was healthy. That is not enough.

Maybe at the end of his life there may have been some nutrient deficiencies or something else that may help us to watch for in the long run on the raw food diet. He was on this diet for more the 50 years, that is a long time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2016 11:05PM by RawPracticalist.