John Robbins, in Healthy at 100: The Scientifically Proven Secrets of the World's Healthiest and Longest-Lived Peoples, describes the lifestyles and dietary patterns of the long-lived cultures of the Abkhasia of Southern Russia, the Vicalbamba Indians of the Ecuadorian Andes and the Hunza of North Pakistan.

He found that the percentage of calories they obtained daily was between 69-73% carbohydrates, 15-18% from fat and 10-13% from protein.

Overall daily calories ranged between 1,700 -1,800, while the Abkhasia ate 90% plant foods and the Vilcabamba and Hunza ate 99% plant foods.

All three ate low amounts of salt, zero sugar or processed food, and had no incidence of obesity and other common diseases.

He also discussed the Okinawa, who, though eating a more animal-based diet, had a similar lifestyle.

maybe if they had checked their lipid panels they would have lived longer.

all over 60%

Great book
In the book he said the Okinawans were the longest lived people.
Yet they ate fish regularly.
He warned that the waters are polluted now compared to before with more mercury in fish.

Those studies have been around for years, but you can't take things in isolation.

Those people lived in a different world from what most of us live in.They grew most of their own food, or it was all locally grown in rich soil. They didn't buy old nutrient poor food picked early, or have to buy wilted vegies.

They also had good genetics passed down the line as they didn't sit in front of tv's or drive cars or have unhealthy or overweight parents who engaged in sedentary work. They had fresh air and their lifestyle was physical.

Paul Bragg and others traveled the world to study the natives everywhere. Everywhere where they found people living simple and eating locally grown healthy food and having to be be physically active they were happy and healthy. They never had any processed or junk food.

None of the long lived people ate 15 bananas after a 200 mile bike run.

BJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Those studies have been around for years, but you
> can't take things in isolation.
>
> Those people lived in a different world from what
> most of us live in.They grew most of their own
> food, or it was all locally grown in rich soil.
> They didn't buy old nutrient poor food picked
> early, or have to buy wilted vegies.
>
> They also had good genetics passed down the line
> as they didn't sit in front of tv's or drive cars
> or have unhealthy or overweight parents who
> engaged in sedentary work. They had fresh air and
> their lifestyle was physical.
>
> Paul Bragg and others traveled the world to study
> the natives everywhere. Everywhere where they
> found people living simple and eating locally
> grown healthy food and having to be be physically
> active they were happy and healthy. They never had
> any processed or junk food.
>
> None of the long lived people ate 15 bananas after
> a 200 mile bike run.


That's not why I posted this.

The reason I posted this was because of the recent postings by organic1 stating the recommendations from various health organizations saying that over 60% CARBS is bad for you from a cardiovascular standpoint.

>The reason I posted this was because of the recent postings by organic1 stating the recommendations from various health organizations saying that over 60% CARBS is bad for you from a cardiovascular standpoint.

But the study shows that the source and kind of the cabs is crucial.
Not all carbs are equal.
Humans are not either.

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >The reason I posted this was because of the
> recent postings by organic1 stating the
> recommendations from various health organizations
> saying that over 60% CARBS is bad for you from a
> cardiovascular standpoint.
>
> But the study shows that the source and kind of
> the cabs is crucial.
> Not all carbs are equal.
> Humans are not either.

what study?

this is what organic1 posted:
"Evidence from a statement released by the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute, panel on Detection, Evaluation, and treatment of High Blood Cholesterol in Adults (ATP III), suggests that very high intakes of carbohydrates (CHO) (greater than 60 percent of total calories) are accompanied by a rise in triglycerides."

"The recommendation by ATP III regarding dietary “Carbohydrate intakes should be limited to 60 percent of total calories. Lower intakes (e.g., 50 percent of calories) should be considered for persons with metabolic syndrome who have elevated triglycerides or low HDL cholesterol (the good cholesterol)



And what I am saying is that there is ample evidence against this statement, including the longest lived people. The reason is that the ATP does not differentiate between different types of carbs and uses fructose studies to implicate fruit.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2015 03:24AM by fresh.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BJ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Those studies have been around for years, but
> you
> > can't take things in isolation.
> >
> > Those people lived in a different world from
> what
> > most of us live in.They grew most of their own
> > food, or it was all locally grown in rich soil.
> > They didn't buy old nutrient poor food picked
> > early, or have to buy wilted vegies.
> >
> > They also had good genetics passed down the
> line
> > as they didn't sit in front of tv's or drive
> cars
> > or have unhealthy or overweight parents who
> > engaged in sedentary work. They had fresh air
> and
> > their lifestyle was physical.
> >
> > Paul Bragg and others traveled the world to
> study
> > the natives everywhere. Everywhere where they
> > found people living simple and eating locally
> > grown healthy food and having to be be
> physically
> > active they were happy and healthy. They never
> had
> > any processed or junk food.
> >
> > None of the long lived people ate 15 bananas
> after
> > a 200 mile bike run.


BJ, not only that but how many of them had birth certificates? I would bet close to none of them. Plenty of colorful antidotal stories, though, I would imagine.



> That's not why I posted this.
>
> The reason I posted this was because of the recent
> postings by organic1 stating the recommendations
> from various health organizations saying that over
> 60% CARBS is bad for you from a cardiovascular

> standpoint.


Just because you don't doesn't mean others don't know that the heart runs mostly on fatty acids and prefers even ketone bodies to glucose. For Pete's sake learn that not all organs and muscles run on the same fuel. Hopefully you will do some homework and discover what you've been missing so you can begin to understand better the implications.

>>just because you don't....

what you've said is not relevant to the point i was making.


anyway, I don't know what you're implying.

are you trying to imply that there are no fatty acids in person's diet who ingests high carbs?




[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


"what you've said is not relevant to the point i was making."

How would you know that? As is often the case when you post that, your default fishing response, you just don't know enough to know what is relevant and what is not.

"are you trying to imply that there are no fatty
acids in person's diet who ingests high carbs?

NO.

May be true- for some -in some areas..

All poor people are not saintly. There are very healthy raw people living in cities. Civilized does not mean unhealthy.

Okinawa, like is that close to the country where the nuclear leak is? They are healthier than us?

The Hunza indian tribe, eats better than me? How do they live? DO the women have to wear these scarves? IS this religious?



They eat dried apricot seeds, that kill off cancer cells, some vitamin in it related to B. Goji Berries? Could it be MINERALS?

HUnzas are not vegetarians or raw.

Are they civilized or are they savages that have not changed for hundreds of years? I would want a job, I would want to work. To be happy.

Are they happier? Sounds wishful. Idealist. Fantasy maybe.

The Hunzakuts were always disease ridden, and the death rate was very high as observed by John Clark 10 years before the arrival of Renee Taylor. Clark was met by hordes of sick people who were seeking medical attention in every village (oasis) he visited. He diagnosed many diseases and treated those whom he could help. The diseases he listed are:

My point is, we are the leaders in health! Not some faraway distant land where there is some mythical fountain of youth.

Here is the place! First Ammendment! Freedom of the internet and knowledge! Organic shops! Women's equality! Money! A beautiful home! Private property!





Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2015 03:46PM by suvine.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fresh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
>
> "what you've said is not relevant to the point i
> was making."
>
> How would you know that? As is often the case when
> you post that, your default fishing response, you
> just don't know enough to know what is relevant
> and what is not.

Because my post was intended to only provide evidence against the recommendation posted by organic1 regarding 60%+ carbs being bad, as entire populations don't get to be the longest living while having heart disease and heart attacks.


>
> "are you trying to imply that there are no fatty
> acids in person's diet who ingests high carbs?
>
> NO.

Good. then instead of being opaque, why don't you actually say something, instead of some kind of lame, zero content insult?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2015 03:43PM by fresh.

" why don't you actually say something"

I did. In my post I was mainly talking around you though. You just happened to be there.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> " why don't you actually say something"
>
> I did. In my post I was mainly talking around you
> though. You just happened to be there.


Still saying nothing, eh?

since you are unable to focus, I will try to bring the focus for you. Try to respond appropriately.

"Just because you don't doesn't mean others don't know that the heart runs mostly on fatty acids and prefers even ketone bodies to glucose. For Pete's sake learn that not all organs and muscles run on the same fuel. Hopefully you will do some homework and discover what you've been missing so you can begin to understand better the implications."



WHAT IS YOUR POINT with respect to anything we have been talking about?


"... the heart is able to use a wide range of substrates for energy production, including glucose, fatty acids, ketone bodies, lactate and pyruvate. "



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2015 04:14PM by fresh.

"Just because YOU don't doesn't mean others don't know that the heart runs mostly on fatty acids and prefers even ketone bodies to glucose. For Pete's sake learn that not all organs and muscles run on the same fuel. Hopefully YOU will do some homework and discover what YOU've been missing so you can begin to understand better the implications."

mainly talking around you? how dishonest.

as well as false as I never made any claims that organs run on the same fuel as you implied.

the heart needs less than 5 grams of fat to run, daily. so it's not like there's some great demand for fat not being satisfied on a high carb diet.

based on its metabolic rate (180 cal/lb/day), average weight 8-10 oz, 60%-80% fat used by heart



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2015 05:50PM by fresh.

suvine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> May be true- for some -in some areas..
>
> All poor people are not saintly. There are very
> healthy raw people living in cities. Civilized
> does not mean unhealthy.
>
> Okinawa, like is that close to the country where
> the nuclear leak is? They are healthier than us?
>
> The Hunza indian tribe, eats better than me? How
> do they live? DO the women have to wear these
> scarves? IS this religious?
>
> [jasminetours.com]
> 51096396.png
>
> They eat dried apricot seeds, that kill off cancer
> cells, some vitamin in it related to B. Goji
> Berries? Could it be MINERALS?
>
> HUnzas are not vegetarians or raw.
>
> Are they civilized or are they savages that have
> not changed for hundreds of years? I would want a
> job, I would want to work. To be happy.
>
> Are they happier? Sounds wishful. Idealist.
> Fantasy maybe.
>
> The Hunzakuts were always disease ridden, and the
> death rate was very high as observed by John Clark
> 10 years before the arrival of Renee Taylor. Clark
> was met by hordes of sick people who were seeking
> medical attention in every village (oasis) he
> visited. He diagnosed many diseases and treated
> those whom he could help. The diseases he listed
> are:
>
> My point is, we are the leaders in health! Not
> some faraway distant land where there is some
> mythical fountain of youth.
>
> Here is the place! First Ammendment! Freedom of
> the internet and knowledge! Organic shops! Women's
> equality! Money! A beautiful home! Private
> property!


Suvine, as you have touched on elsewhere in another thread this morning, it seems almost impossible to reach NHers and 80-10-10ers through their romantic notions and fractured fairytales.

You've made some great points, today, that hopefully people new to the raw food diet will take seriously. And isn't it amazing how tenaciously some still cling to "proofs" like old studies of omnivores and unsubstantiated testimonials as though little details like that don't matter when they use such things to try and convince others to join them in their very high fruit and carb raw food based diets?

"mainly talking around you? how dishonest."

No, it's more like talking pig language around the little kids.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "mainly talking around you? how dishonest."
>
> No, it's more like talking pig language around the
> little kids.


Still avoiding taking responsibility for your statements...