I've been on a high raw diet for seven months now, which means between 75 and 100 percent of my diet is raw. In these seven months there have been four breaks of about a week each where I was eating light but mostly cooked food while travelling.

I still have some cravings for cooked food. Now, when I say cravings I do not mean that I overeat or cannot control myself from eating something. Perhaps a better word is desire. I feel that my body desires cooked food. More particularly, it desires something warm, soft, dense and moist.

One of the really fascinating things that has happened in the raw journey for me is that it seems that because of the transition to raw, in addition to being a sattvic vegetarian and off caffeine and alcohol for 12 years, my tongue has become an amazingly sensitive organ that seems to communicate to my brain and my other senses what my body needs. What tastes good is what my body needs, and what tastes bad is what is not good for the body. Not always, but more often than not.

I cannot take the extreme amount of spices and salt and sugar that most people seem to eat day in and day out. It also seems that I can tell when I am eating something because the body needs it and when I am eating something because I want a psychological experience. For example, I eat a very large quantity of dates but my body seems to need it. I say this because when i eat them the sensation on the tongue is different - more alive - and there is a tense, undulating, burning, opening sensation in the esophagus and throat, which I understand to be hunger. But I can also sometimes eat something with a strong flavour because of the psychological experience I get from eating it, even in the absence of the sensations I described above. Like last night, I ate some sapodillas even though I was not hungry, but I was happy and excited. The latter is something I do occasionally now.

Having said that, I wonder why I have this desire for cooked food. It seems unlikely to me that it is an 'addiction' to cooked food, which some writers and posters here talk about. It am more inclined to think that cooked food is usually more warm, dense, soft, moist than raw food, and my body needs that. First, because I am strongly a vata type in the Ayurvedic scheme of things, which means my body needs khapha foods which have just those qualities I described above. Second, it is winter and very cold where I live in India, and the heating is not really adequate. The season, therefore, increases the craving. So I eat some lightly cooked vegetables with little or no spices. They form about 20 percent of my diet these days.

What do you think? Would you agree with my understanding of food and cravings? Where could I be going wrong?

Does the vata constitution especially need something non-raw? And the winter?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2016 02:28AM by iandthou.

I'm very vata too iandthou. Yes it can be tough! I'm in Scotland and it's cold and wet here right now (37F today). Funny to think of India being cold, I always imagine it as being really hot... at least, it was lovely and hot in Chennai when I was there!

I wrote an article on how to stay warm on a rawfood diet in a cold climate, here it is, hope you find it helpful.

[rawfoodscotland.co.uk]



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Thank you. I read that article a couple of days ago. I think I am doing much of what it recommends

India is cold up in the North. I am in Delhi where it's not as cold as Scotland but is pretty cold. Especially because the heating is not as good and pervasive as it is in Europe.

I have no knowledge and have not read about vasta constitution

but

Does it really matter to the body that the food eaten be warm or cooked to give us the warm feeling?

The inside of the body is already warm at 98 degree.

It is like saying when I entering a home coming from outside where it is cold, I need to be warm first. The home will warm you up.

The sensation or feeling that a hot cup of coffee or tea will keep us warm is just in our mind. The feeling is felt just in our mouth during the minutes we are drinking.

When the food is good for us and well digested, the body will generate heat within to keep you warm. So the primary requirement for the food is to be symbotic to us and well digested and assimilated. And raw food wins here it is better digested and assimilated than cooked food. so it will keep you healthier and warmer and leave less residue and garbage in the digestive track.

The body cannot effeciently generate heat within when we are constipated.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2016 03:55PM by RawPracticalist.

do you WANT to believe in ayurveda ? if you do, then it doesn't matter what anyone says.

of course it is not scientific in a modern sense and is illogical in many ways.


desire for cooked can be many things, the body not cleansed, simple hunger and not enough raw food available, inability to deal with the bodily sensations of being all raw, desire for salt, memories, and definitely addiction.

organic1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Be very wary of people or raw gurus telling you
> that your desire for cooked food is an
> "addiction", in many cases it can actually be your
> body crying out for certain nutrients that are not
> so easily obtained from a strict raw plant food
> based diet such as zinc, protein, vitamin b12,
> omega-3 DHA, iodine or even just simply foods that
> provide abit of satiety and are higher in
> protein/fats.
>

the body does not cry out for zinc
the body does not cry out for omegas
it does not cry out for iodine, protein
there is no bodily mechanism to do
you have not experienced the satiety on an all raw diet so don't understand and are responding without sufficient experience or information.
this crying out is not specific nutrient based generally speaking - it's dehydration and simple hunger and a body that has not let go of that cooked feeling.


> Aslong as the cooked foods your eating are
> healthy, then theres really not a problem with
> eating cooked food.

If a clogged up sinus, clogged up elimination system, insufficient energy are NOT a problem, then I don't know what a problem is. No I am not the only one who has experienced this. Even the alertness from 95% raw to 100% raw is different.


>
> The problem lies in addiction and over-consumption
> of unhealthy cooked foods such as processed junk
> food for example.
>
> It is very difficult to near impossible to get all
> the basic nutrients we need to survive as humans
> on a strict raw plant food only diet.
>

It's quite easy actually especially if we have modern conveniences such as juicers and blenders.

> Which is exactly why 99% of raw vegans end up
> reverting back to including some level of cooked
> food in their diets, ive yet to see any credible
> examples who have proven me wrong there.

Your conclusion does not follow from your proposition. You missed logic class.
Your proposition is flawed, as well as there are many reasons why people go back to cooked - the "insufficiency" of the diet is way down the list.
And you IGNORE examples that are put forth, for some selfish reason.



>
> Are these former raw food gurus like durianrider,
> freelee, chris randell or whatever just not
> "cleansed" of their "cooked food addictions" or is
> it really just the fact that its very difficult to
> near impossible to get all the basic nutrients we
> require to be healthy on a strict raw vegan based
> diet ?

Has nothing to do with nutrients.
It's EASIER to eat some cooked, so some people do it.
Just like it's EASIER to drive a car to work - or do you WALK?
What's the matter, something wrong with Walking? some deficiency in your walking mechanism?
That's the same reasoning.

Being cold in the winter is probably due to being low in some 'bricks.'

One of the cellular energy components is carnitine and avocados are the highest vegan source.

[www.clinicaladvisor.com]

Quote

The human body requires L-carnitine for fat metabolism. This amino acid is manufactured in the liver and kidneys and stored in the muscles, heart, brain, and sperm.1 L-carnitine is made from two other essential amino acids—lysine and methionine—in a process requires niacin, vitamin B6, and iron. After synthesis, the majority of L-carnitine is stored in skeletal muscles for later use.2 Although most L-carnitine is made in the body, food sources augment the supply.

Other component is coQ10. Try to eat: spinach, broccoli, and cauliflower

The dietary iodine levels are probably a lesser concern if they are met when in cold weather

organic1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you are getting a clogged up sinus from eating
> cooked food fresh then this suggests some level of
> intolerance i.e a possible food allergy.
>
> It doesn't necessarily equate to that cooked food
> is bad. Especially given the fact that it doesn't
> happen to normal healthy people.
>

not clogged up. just slightly.
to say it doesn't happen to "normal healthy people" is hilarious.
of course it does.
if you would like to submit some personal experience, then do that.



> And i say that as someone who had suffered with a
> myriad of chronic digestive intolerances and
> allergies due to "leaky gut/increased intestinal
> permeability", low stomach acid and poor adrenal
> gland function, that made me intolerant to pretty
> much every food including raw foods.
>
> Also you'd be surprised at what cravings for
> certain foods are often related to the nutrients
> they contain. For example women craving chocolate
> when suffering from PMS, this is because chocolate
> is a rich source of magnesium.
>

provide the evidence


> Or those with "adrenal fatigue" craving salty
> foods, which is because of their increased need
> for sodium due to lowered levels of aldosterone
> messing with fluid/salt balance. Those with poor
> adrenal function often crave sugar, which they use
> to temporarily stimulate the adrenals increasing
> energy, although like all other stimulants, excess
> sugar comes with a crash too.
>

most everyone craves salty foods. and most crave sugary foods.
doesn't prove anything.


> Its not the same analogy at all, because if you
> walk no matter how long it takes, you will get
> there at some point.
>


whatever you say dude.

> Where as with a strict raw vegan diet no matter
> how hard you try or dream, it will NEVER provide
> many basic essential nutrients such as vitamin
> b12, vitamin D3 or other nutrients in the
> sufficient quantities and balance required for
> health.

your statement is false, although that does not prevent you from making it up.

>
> Can strict raw vegan diets be done on paper ?
>
> Possibly, with the inclusion of multiple
> supplements, but thats not really the point is it.
> We need any healthy diet to also be practical and
> to work in reality.
>
> Most people work 9-5 jobs, they don't have time to
> sit making the 15th datorade banana smoothie of
> the day to bang in 3000 calories from a fruit
> based diet, just so they can get somewhere near
> the RDA for basic nutrients and even then you've
> only had around 30g of poor quality protein per
> 3000 calories of food.
>
> Which is enough protein for pretty much nobody to
> remain healthy and you wonder why they revert to
> cooked food so easily to get their nutrients in.
>
> Must be those cooked food addictions though lol.

cooked food gives people a negative thought process as you are exhibiting

Hi organic1. Let me propose to you a new view of B12.

The dietary B12 dependency is related to being domesticated. A domesticated animal that lives in a clean environment is not exposed to B12. B12 is created in dirt and being clean removes that condition. Also, some genes are expressed when humans develop in the wild that are different than when domesticated.

organic1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well your right in that food allergies happen to
> normal healthy people.
>
> However that doesn't mean a mild allergic reaction
> to food is normal or healthy to be occuring, which
> is what i obviously meant.
>

what you call allergy is a normal healthy reaction to an improper food.

> If your own personal intolerances to cooked food
> is your whole reasoning why its unhealthy for
> everyone, then it doesn't really make sense and is
> only really applicable to yourself or fellow food
> allergy sufferers.

nice try


>
> The statements about a strict vegan diet not being
> able to provide vitamin b12 is proven by
> substantial science and im really not getting into
> that debate with you for the 3 millionith time,
> but of course you can just invalidate everything i
> say by claiming its not true or that you don't
> care as you usually do lol.

not talking about b12

>Even indigenous tribes in the wild require small amounts of animal foods in their diet or they die out.


More nonsense from the most irritating contributor.

>If the body is not robust enough to handle even healthy cooked foods, then your doing something wrong.

Which are these healthy cooked foods?

Are sure there are any?

Hi organic1 .

You make a point about cultures in history not being vegan. But I'll remind you that the birth date of recorded history and the birth date of domestication are very different. Thus, your argument is not valid as domestication predates recorded history.

Second, there are different sources of natural B12. Water with bacteria has B12. Animals drink it every day but domesticated humans are not exposed to it.

[en.wikipedia.org]

Quote

Unconventional natural sources of B12 also exist, but their utility as food sources of B12 is doubtful. For example, plants pulled from the ground and not washed may contain remnants of B12 from the bacteria present in the surrounding soil.[42] B12 is also found in lakes if the water has not been sanitized.[43] Certain insects such as termites contain B12 produced by their gut bacteria, in a way analogous to ruminant animals.[44] The human intestinal tract itself may contain B12-producing bacteria in the small intestine,[45] but it is unclear whether sufficient amounts of the vitamin could be produced to meet nutritional needs.

Third, you omitted my point about gene expression.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2016 12:33AM by Panchito.

organic1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lol if you think having any allergic reaction to
> any food is healthy, then were clearly on
> different pages here.
>
> Even junk food shouldn't cause reaction in an
> optimally healthy person.
>
> If the body is not robust enough to handle even
> healthy cooked foods, then your doing something
> wrong.
>

You have not the slightest clue what you're talking about.


> Do you never think its your strict effort of
> trying to adhere to a raw food only diet, thats
> weakening your body's ability to digest even
> normal foods ?
>

You have no idea what a normal food is.


> This is a classic issue in long term raw foodists,
> especially low protein and fat vegans like
> 80/10/10 as they don't exercise their digestive
> system sufficiently and then when they eat higher
> protein or fat cooked foods they obviously
> encounter intolerances.
>


zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

> The cooked foods or higher fat/protein raw foods
> obviously get blamed, when really its just these
> people weakening their body's digestive
> capabilities trying to follow extremely low fat
> and protein diets.

zzzzzzzzzzzzz

No wonder the diet didn't work for you. you are clueless as to what an actual healthy food is.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi organic1 .
>
> You make a point of cultures in history not being
> vegan. But I'll remind you that birth date of
> recorded history and the birth date of
> domestication (predates history) are very
> different. Thus, your argument is not valid.
>
> Second, there are different sources of natural
> B12. Water with bacteria has B12. Animals drink it
> every day but domesticated humans are not exposed
> to it.
>
> [en.wikipedia.org]
>
> Unconventional natural sources of B12 also exist,
> but their utility as food sources of B12 is
> doubtful. For example, plants pulled from the
> ground and not washed may contain remnants of B12
> from the bacteria present in the surrounding
> soil.[42] B12 is also found in lakes if the water
> has not been sanitized.[43] Certain insects such
> as termites contain B12 produced by their gut
> bacteria, in a way analogous to ruminant
> animals.[44] The human intestinal tract itself may
> contain B12-producing bacteria in the small
> intestine,[45] but it is unclear whether
> sufficient amounts of the vitamin could be
> produced to meet nutritional needs.
>
> Third, you omitted my point about gene expression.

He will never get the B12 thing. It's his ace in the hole for his "strict vegan" crusade.

>Then theres the dark leafy green vegetables like kale and spinach that you always moan are not digestible in their raw states.

You got it right. If they are not digestible why eat them even cooked?

Cooking destroys nutrients. That is a fact.

There are plenty of other foods out there.

If a food has a negative effect on the body, is it healthy?

All cooking causes changes that cause some negative effect.

organic1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fresh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> ----
> >
> > He will never get the B12 thing. It's his ace
> in
> > the hole for his "strict vegan" crusade.
>
> Its not an "ace" at all.
>
> Just the fact most people don't want to have to
> rely on synthetic supplements in order to obtain
> basic essential vitamins whether B12, D3,
> microalgaes for DHA, synthetic iodine supps,
> synthetic zinc to balance out all the vegan
> induced copper, its just not logical.
>

Your statement above is not logical.

> You might think its great, but thats why veganism
> has hustorically failed to take off in popularity,
> because IT DOESNT WORK WITHOUT SUPPLEMENTS and
> even then its highly debatable just how healthy
> strict vegan diets are.


I think JR has explained this to you several thousand times.
As well as panchito above.
If you insist on not recognizing that not living in the wild and not being exposed to b12 is a cause of an adjustment that needs to be made whether by "synthetic" or animal food that's your obsession.The reason it's your obsession is because you want it so bad but can't have it.

organic1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sounds like many of your guys have an irrational
> fear of cooked foods, even healthy vegan cooked
> plant foods, which is abit alarming.
>

nothing irrational about it.


> And no fresh, if anything is having a negative
> effect, then of course its not healthy.
>


> Nobody is suggesting you should go out and eat
> some cooked food to encounter even more negative
> reactions.
>
> However these negative reactions should serve as a
> sign that something is going on that isn't
> optimal. Like i say we shouldn't react to any
> food in moderation, especially not healthy plant
> foods.


>
> Maybe your intolerant to the usual allergens like
> wheat or gluten, which are in many cooked foods.
> If you can list the specific foods it might be
> easier.

all cooked causes some negative effect whether dehydration, fatigue, digestive problems, elimination problems, etc.
you just don't notice because you're eating a lot of cooked and you have different ideas of what healthy is.

yes i am "allergic" to grains, as I should be


>
> If your claiming all food in general that is
> cooked, whether healthy plant foods causes these
> reactions, then id either suspect its highly
> psychosomatic the reactions you experience
> probably induced by your orthorexic fear that
> cooked food is bad or unhealthy. Or it could be
> that you have some digestive issues that are
> causing reactions to the typical harder to digest
> foods i.e foods richer in protein like fish that
> you've said you eat in the past.

nope


>
> If you've been eating 90/5/5 like you have for
> long periods, then reverting to eating protein and
> fat rich cooked foods, then im not surprised your
> body is incapable of tolerating or digesting these
> foods after all that time just mostly living off
> fruit and some salad greens, maybe the odd nut.
>

you don't know what a food is



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2016 01:04AM by fresh.

There are not any nutrients out there that cannot be obtained from raw food.

One could say that cooking is tolerable because of social environment and how we were raised and the difficulty some of us have of letting go of the past.

organic1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No your notion is incorrect that im not noticing
> the bad effects of cooked food, because ive also
> adhered to strict raw food and vegan diets for
> years in the past.
>

what foods? "healthy" cooked foods can have a bad effect? Isn't that what you're denying is true? or just "junk foods" according to you?

> So im more than experienced enough with these
> diets to form my own opinions on these foods thank
> you very much.

you didn't do it very long and you never stabilized on the diet and I pointed out some confusion that you had in the past when you shared what you did.

organic1 Wrote:

> Yes the clause in your statement there is "raw
> food" and not saying "raw vegan."
>
> You are including raw animal foods such as raw
> goats milk in your diet to provide basic essential
> nutrients such as vitamin b12 etc.
>
> So there are nutrients that cannot be obtained
> from strict plant based only raw vegan diets,
> which is what were discussing hence this being a
> raw vegan diet forum.
>
> The diet you are talking about is a low animal
> food plant based raw paleo diet RP. Which could
> in theory provide most basic nutrients without the
> need for supplements. We are however addressing
> strict raw vegan diets here.

No we are not addressing raw vegan diets here.
This post was about cravings for cooked.
And you, as usual have derailed it into yet another senseless pointless discussion about strict RAW VEGAN diets.

organic1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fresh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > No we are not addressing raw vegan diets here.
> > This post was about cravings for cooked.
> > And you, as usual have derailed it into yet
> > another senseless pointless discussion about
> > strict RAW VEGAN diets.
>
> Thats what happens when you try to claim all
> cooked foods including even healthy plant foods
> are unhealthy or that its some kind of addiction
> to eat these foods, or that they produce bad
> effect in everyone simply because you have food
> allergies lol.
>
> Yawn...

I've already told you it's not "allergies", but your M.O. is to repeat falsehoods anyway and ignore those things that people point out as being false or contradictory such as your claim that we go to cooked food because of Zinc and other deficiencies.

Feel free to prove me wrong by stopping the ingestion of all cooked foods and doing a video on your experience.

problems with simple healthy potatoes

[thepaleodiet.com]

problems with healthy veggies

[www.13.waisays.com]

[www.precisionnutrition.com]

of course no food/diet is perfect that's not the point. merely responding to this "healthy cooked food" stuff.

[www.youtube.com]

>Your going to have a very difficult time convincing anyone other than RP that lightly steamed veggies are bad food choices for health.

We have modern tools to get nutrients from these tough fiber veggies. You do not have to resort to cooking. Cooking does not improve anything, it is a step back. I used to lightly steamed them too but I was defeating my goal of optimum nutrition.

You can juice them
You can make great smoothies
You can choose not to eat them

Well, well, well

These vegetables ARE NOT delicious in their raw form anyway.
You have to cook them, put seasonings on them to make them eatable.

Are you sure is that what nature intended?

Cook some cruciferous vegetables and put them on a table and invite some children to eat, they will not do it.

The issues we have with foods is not lack of nutrients, the main issue is nutrient absorption, nutrient assimilation.

That is why fruit is the superior food, it is delicious, need no seasonings, and well assimilated.

>>> Edited 18 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2016 11:07AM by organic1.

18 times


Your posts and arguments in this forum have always been on cooked foods that raw foodists may need. Or supplements or vitamins they may be missing.

Can you tell us what you eat raw and why?

If you are not eating anything raw, then what are you doing on a raw food forum?

You have left and come back many times, there must be something you are gaining from a raw food forum or is it just that you like to argue and tell the raw foodists how wrong they are in pursuing the choices they freely made?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2016 04:46PM by RawPracticalist.

>yes high temperature cooking can create these carcinogenic compounds. I wasn't suggesting you start deep frying and grilling your veggies until they are charred black lol.


Dangerous chemicals and changes to the molecules are created with any type of cooking, not just high temperature.
Of course steamed veggies are some of the best foods if you're gonna cook but no cooked food should be considered "healthy". there is always a drawback to cooked. there is virtually no drawback to appropriate raw foods.


>Except juicing is a fractionlized food missing many components such as fiber and various nutrients, so for that very reason juicing is not a sufficient replacement for eating these foods in their whole form.

see now you're agreeing with doug graham.
and you could say the same about cooked.


>The vitamin loss from cooking is also negligible, your actually probably getting a poorer scope and variety of phytonutrients by not including these foods like lightly steamed dark leafy greens, cruciferous vegetables, root veggies etc regularly in your diet.

right like all those apes missing out on roots and broccoli. they just can't get enough nutrients without roots and broccoli.



>The issues we have with foods is not lack of nutrients, the main issue is nutrient absorption, nutrient assimilation.
That is why fruit is the superior food, it is delicious, need no seasonings, and well assimilated.

well said RP


>Steamed vegetables require no seasonings to be edible.

boring boring mostly tasteless

>A bowl of lightly steamed kale is no less tasty than eating a bowl of raw romaine lettuce. Infact the kale is probably tastier lightly steamed in my opinion, is easier to chew and easier to digest.

once again cooking things that shouldn't be eaten in the first place

>>Yeah and guess what cooking has actually been shown to increase bio-availibility and nutrient uptake on these tough fibrous foods.

once again cooking things that shouldn't be eaten in the first place

>>Yes i know you can just not eat these foods because they aren't edible in their raw form, thats the answer isn't it. Just strip all these healthy plant foods out of your diet and replace with more fruit lol.

yes. LOL

>These plant foods like vegetables are also 100% completely vegan, so it still surprises me how anti-plant foods some of you raw foodists are. Its still always just about FRUIT, FRUIT, FRUIT... isnt it ?

nope it's about raw raw raw. could be all veg.

>Boring....., yes fruit is healthy, get over it, there are more healthy foods than just fruit and romaine lettuce that your allowed to eat and choose from.

another strawman


>eek and many other raw superfoods.

marketing term

>Are just some of the foods i eat raw smiling smiley.

you just said the other day that you ate 20% raw 80% cooked.

organic1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Must be personal preference, you claim to eat
> boring tasteless bowls of romaine lettuce
> according to your past sample diets.
>
> Whats the massive difference in taste between a
> bowl of steamed kale and a bowl of raw romaine
> lettuce out of interest ?
>
> I must be missing something.


being all/high raw results in a change in preference away from cooked that has this damaged/slop feeling/taste. must be the biophotons ;-)

there's nothing horrible about steamed veg it's just a compromise to me and talking about any cooked food as healthy is just the wrong message although I've eaten plenty of cooked myself and i'm not trying to imply that anyone eating cooked is wrong or less than.

i usually blend romaine although it tastes good alone when properly hungry.