Heading of article by Mercola:

(A) "Carbs Are Primary Cause of High Triglycerides"

The above is stated as a categorical imperative, a universally applicable condition.

Fundamentals of logic

1. Correlation does not imply causation
2. Ccunterexample disproves a claim of causation

Counterexample: several examples of people eating "high carb" have been shown here with blood tests showing healthy triglycerides.

Therefore statement (A) above is not true.

"Hidden" variables confound the determination of cause.

So either (A) is false

or

(A) is conditionally true such as carbs cause high TG when eaten over caloric needs, for example

but (A) is still false as is.

After reading the Denise Minger article you posted, I'm impressed that somewhat nutrient deficient diet of white rice, white sugar, fruit and fruit juice (94% carb, 4% protein, and 2% fat) had such a healing effect on diabetes, heart disease, obesity, psoriasis, and arthritis.

yes indeed.



The Swank diet also was interesting.

and yet people will continue to claim that low fat and high carb is deficient and unhealthy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2016 03:21AM by fresh.

watching the video that was posted in the other thread will dispel your protestations.

the full video of mingers talk is posted in the dminger thread

with other commentary videos as well.

you are drowning under an avalanche of evidence with your can of sardines sticking out of the rubble and you can't recognize that transitional effects and dietary error explain failures, not vegan deficiency. its the epitome of selfish absorbed nature of humans that give higher priority to their alleged "experience" than to logic.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2016 04:05PM by fresh.

organic1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Drowning under an avalange lol, don't kid
> yourself, coming from the guy who has dispelled
> every single piece of scientific research ever
> posted by anyone on here.
>

I have accepted those that are valid - I have accepted those that went against my existing belief system - I have changed my view on a few things over time.


> Finds a piece of barely relatable research on
> traditional indigenous population animal food
> vegetable based diets and starts creaming that
> he's finally found a piece of research which might
> suggest his crazy amounts of sugar mostly only
> fruit and romaine lettuce diet is healthy.

creaming?

>
> Please do take a leaf out your own book though,
> because now you must also agree that sardines are
> healthy and starchy vegetables and cooked grains
> like rice, if you are going to place all your
> emphasis on these handful of traditional
> indigenous diets and a 3 month rice diet studies
> lol.
>

why would I do that?


> As always ill check out Denise's video when i get
> a minute.
>
> If a handful of traditional indigenous diets and a
> 3 month rice diet study is all denise has to
> present her claims that low fat, high sugar diets
> are healthy though, then i won't lose much sleep.
>

who said it's healthy? she posted it to make a point, apparently it was lost on you.

>
> Try finding out why this doesn't apply to our
> western populations who get ravaged by the
> metabolically devasting effects of both excessive
> sugar/carb and saturated fat rich diets.

don't know what you mean

>
> Like i say there are multiple non diet related
> reasons why these indigenous populations have low
> rate of disease in general.
>

I know the reasons

> Not to mention the fact that all of these
> traditional diets weren't even VEGAN!!!! they
> contained animal foods such as fish. But of
> course you'll believe its applicable to strict
> vegan 80/10/10 diets.

missed the point of the study. as usual.

you should have deployed the air bag system so that you could have saved yourself from the avalanche. now your goose is cooked.

organic1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Drowning under an avalange lol, don't kid
> yourself, coming from the guy who has dispelled
> every single piece of scientific research ever
> posted by anyone on here.
>
> Finds a piece of barely relatable research on
> traditional indigenous population animal food
> vegetable based diets and starts creaming that
> he's finally found a piece of research which might
> suggest his crazy amounts of sugar mostly only
> fruit and romaine lettuce diet is healthy.
>
> Please do take a leaf out your own book though,
> because now you must also agree that sardines are
> healthy and starchy vegetables and cooked grains
> like rice, if you are going to place all your
> emphasis on these handful of traditional
> indigenous diets and a 3 month rice diet studies
> lol.
>
> As always ill check out Denise's video when i get
> a minute.
>
> If a handful of traditional indigenous diets and a
> 3 month rice diet study is all denise has to
> present her claims that low fat, high sugar diets
> are healthy though, then i won't lose much sleep.
>
>
> Try finding out why this doesn't apply to our
> western populations who get ravaged by the
> metabolically devasting effects of both excessive
> sugar/carb and saturated fat rich diets.
>
> Like i say there are multiple non diet related
> reasons why these indigenous populations have low
> rate of disease in general.
>
> Not to mention the fact that all of these
> traditional diets weren't even VEGAN!!!! they
> contained animal foods such as fish. But of
> course you'll believe its applicable to strict
> vegan 80/10/10 diets.

Organic1, you have the patience of a saint to deal with such rubbish. Ironically, if you go back to the original studies (done in the 70's), those studied indigenous populations "traditional" diets at the time included tinned fish and meats.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2016 05:08PM by SueZ.

>>>Organic1, you have the patience of a saint to deal with such rubbish. Ironically, if you go back to the original studies (done on the 70's), those studied indigenous populations "traditional" diets at the time included tinned fish and meats.


you missed the conclusions drawn from the studies too. shocker.
the inclusion of animal foods does not impact the specific conclusions drawn.
the epitome of ignorance to look at every study and say - hey they weren't 100% vegan! that's not the point! but your shallow depth of understanding and bias precludes this.

does the inclusion of any "tinned fish and meats" in traditional diets have anything to do with the percent carbs? no. not a hard concept to understand. it's not about "nutrients" it's about percent carbs in this instance.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2016 05:12PM by fresh.

Lol, I was quoted before I had a chance to edit the typo "on the 70's" to "in the 70's". I regret I didn't preview before I posted. I'll try to remember to start doing that.

..."you missed the conclusions drawn from the studies, too"...

No, the irony I was commenting on, which obviously was lost on you, was in reference to the goofy clunky "can of sardine sticking out of the rubble" visual you were trying to use to denigrate organic1 with in your post.

As usual, you've jumped the gun, fool.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ..."you missed the conclusions drawn from the
> studies, too"...
>
> No, the irony I was commenting on, which obviously
> was lost on you, was in reference to the goofy
> clunky "can of sardine sticking out of the rubble"
> visual you were trying to use to denigrate
> organic1 with in your post.
>
> As usual, you've jumped the gun, fool.

yes and it was a pointless irrelevant post from you as usual.

organic1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Organic1, you have the patience of a saint to
> deal
> > with such rubbish. Ironically, if you go back
> to
> > the original studies (done in the 70's), those
> > studied indigenous populations "traditional"
> diets
> > at the time included tinned fish and meats.
>
> Haha i know, its my method of testing my patience
> lol.
>
> I realize now though after these past few weeks
> spending days and nights debunking every single
> point of fresh's, that no matter how much time i
> spend daily to carefully debunk the finer points
> of these studies, that fresh would never alter his
> intense cognitive bias anyway, so its a waste of
> time/energy overall and with that im out
> responding.
>
> Fresh, the sort of guy who doesn't believe
> multiple high quality double blind, placebo
> controlled clinical studies, but puts all his
> stock in a "comprehensive survey" of 779 people as
> staunch proof lol.
>
> How many review studies have i supplied on vegan
> diet deficiencies, vegan diets and vitamin b12
> deficiency/hyperhomocysteinemia, the benefits of X
> superfoods/herb etc, some of the review studies
> which encompass hundreds of high quality
> randomized clinical trials, but guess what "he
> doesn't care" about those conviently, because they
> don't relate to his belief system lol.
>
> Its the most intense case of cognitive bias ive
> ever seen, even when you highlight these things
> for e.g
>
> Vegetables are unhealthy and full of toxins
> according to fresh, but suddenly there healthy
> foods when he's making his point or we just glance
> over that factor in the study of course, funny
> considering its was a starch vegetable based diet,
> but of course that doesn't matter, irrelevant
> according to fresh.
>
> The diet contained fish, lol where to even begin
> there, using the health status of people eating an
> animal food diet as if it relates to strict
> veganism, beyond clueless, yet spends his time
> claiming everyone else is stupid.
>
> I haven't viewed many of these traditional studies
> to be fair, i don't put a great deal of stock into
> localized diets from certain areas. They are
> interesting to a degree and they can highlight
> many important health factors, but there largely
> meaningless to the western population at times and
> barely relevant as you'll no doubt know.

Yea, I don't put much stock in half century old dietary studies of that caliber from lands steeped in dietary traditions of head hunting cannibals either, lol.

suez once again laughingly tries to dismiss something for no good reason in stead of actually learning something