For one and a half days I have been having a mild pain in areas where the kidneys are located, which increases after I have a meal. I also have a heavy and mildly painful sensation in the flank and the hips. I also feel significantly tired after a meal. There is also some very mild pain in the soles of my feet, which I have had for many years intermittently and always thought it was because of sciatica from a slipped disc. But now I wonder if this is caused by a congested kidney or ureter pressing on the sciatic nerve.

I am interpreting all these symptoms to be caused by congested kidneys. I haven't seen a doctor yet.

If this is kidney pain, which seems likely to me, could it be caused by eating too many dates? Since early December I have been craving for dates. Usually I limit myself to two 500 gram packs of dates every week, although I eat them all within two or three days and then wait for the week to finish before I get more.
That's over two pounds of dates a week. Last week I have eaten 2 kilos, or 4 pounds of dates, and not quite evenly spread out over the week.

I also wonder if the high oxalate content of raw leafy vegetables could have contributed to this. From my reading it seems that there isn't a consensus on whether raw leaves can cause kidney stones. The newest research does not believe so while the more conventional writers still think it is better control one's consumption of such foods. I am on a high raw diet so I wonder if I should reduce my consumption of spinach, kale, peppers, celery.

I also did my first liver flush a month ago and had these symptoms in a milder form two days after that for two days. My symptoms now could be related but I don't see why they come one month later.

Andreas Moritz writes that if you have tiny little lumps under your eyes that is an indication of kidney stones. I have plenty of these. I have bought Moritz's kidney cleanse formula and will start on it tomorrow.

Could eating a lot of dates cause kidney stones or kidney pain? How about oxalates? Any thoughts about the causes for these symptoms or how to deal with them would be helpful. Thanks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2016 08:27AM by iandthou.

I and thou,

i met a man at a fruitluck who said he would get tooth pain when he ate dates. I guess he was eating a lot of dates trying to be more vegan. He went to a dentist who found nothing wrong with his teeth. If you go to a doctor and they find nothing wrong with your kidneys, are you going to continue eating dates or are you going to stop eating them and see if your problem improves? NOt only stop eating dates, but don't eat really sweet things for awhile and see if the problem improves.

I can go on and on about the five element explanation that would justify your suspicion but I don't have time now. But I did want to say this quickly, so you can be encouraged to change your diet temporarily. Why not switch calorie sources from dates to raw poppy seed paste and whole ground sesame (especially black) which are both high in calcium?

I always tonify kidneys with herbs when treating slipped lumbar discs. Chronic sciatica is a warning of weakness to you, not to mention your weight.

Raw sesame seeds are high in antinutrients, which will drain minerals. At least that is what happened to me - I'd get muscle cramps after consuming anything more than 1 teaspoon. However, roasting them and then grinding with salt (gomashio, a Japanese food) did not produce this effect. I guess I'm a weakling and can't handle certain mineral-draining foods. Indeed, I've been somewhat weak right from babyhood.

It's logical to stop eating dates for a couple of weeks, as well as other concentrated sweets, to see what happens. Betcha you'll perk right up. Sweet is "earth" energy, i.e., centered in Spleen-Pancreas/Stomach and excessive sweets will drain Kidney energy, which by the way is not restricted to the physical kidneys as we know them in the western style of medicine. It's more of an endocrine system way of approaching health.

Just a suggestion, maybe you would benefit from an Oriental herbal tonic. Also, I'd cut out raw greens known to be high in oxalates, which you mentioned.

Its worth mentioning that liver flushes are also a scam, if its the olive oil and espom salt style flush, you could end up lodging a real gallstone in a bile duct, so not something id recommend. There are many proven safer options to cleanse the liver and stimulate gallbladder function.

Bollocks. It is true that some folks should not do the liver flush, but I did a few, about 20, and mightily benefited. I know olive oil-induced sludgy lumps from real gallstones. We're not all as thick as you imply.

with regards to what Horsea said, yes sprouting sesame and poppy seed first is a bonus before making a milk, paste or yogurt. THe sproutarian man has shared the high nutrients when sprouted and fermented.
Sprouting and fermenting is far superior to roasting. But sprouting and making a paste or milk is good too.
I made a video of what poppy and sesame sprouts look like in my youtube channel. Black sesame and poppy seed (when properly prepared) can be tonics.

Gee, organic1, you don't have to get so upset!

I know what the various kinds of gallstone looks like. Also, the gallstones a doctor removes during surgery is not quite the same thing as what you might pass through flushing or spontaneously (this has happened). The same is true of liver flukes and other parasites. After they (parasites) go thru 30 feet of intestine, some are generally broken apart.

For starters, they are not all the same. There are various kinds. As they say, "Look it up". With my best flush I produced maybe a good sized handfull of some 1/2", angular things, whitish gray in color, that were not totally hard, but I did have to exert some pressure to crush them. Some of them I opened with a knife and inside was a waxy, semihard green substance. I also on another occasion discharged hard, unbreakable little white rocks. I could not break them with my fingers. I don't know how this could be produced over the space of, what, half an hour?

One particular flush I discharged quite a wide variety of things, including what I believe to be parts and pieces of liver flukes and they are repulsive. There was no food left in my tract, I had emptied myself thoroughly the day before, so it was not food.

The fact that people have done ultrasounds shown they have no genuine real gallstones, then take the liver flush recipe and pass 100s of these "pseudo-stones" should say it all just how genuine this "liver flush" actually is.

I don't know anything about that, only the evidence of my own experience.


Its dangerous and there is a chance you could have genuine real gallstones get lodged in a bile duct, which is something nobody wants, unless you want your gallbladder removed.

OK. If a real gallstone could get lodged in a bile duct, as you say, and I know that such things have happened and caused great pain - then some real gallstones could also make it through the duct, couldn't they, the duct having been relaxed by the epsom salt and lubricated by all that oil.


Could you in theory pass a real gallstone ? Maybe, but if you think drinking that amount of oil as recommended is a good idea then maybe you are thick ?

It is true that some people shouldn't flush, nor should they be flushing year after year. You do a few, you get some stuff out, then you quit. Some people, though - folks who are fixated on neverending cleansing procedures - are unable to stop themselves and I think they are doing damage to their bodies.

i take it you had them lab verified to come across so aggressively or at the least a doctorate in medicine ?

"Aggressively" is a word that could more properly apply to some things you have said around this joint.

You can have the last word! Over to you, sweetie!

Thank you organic1, Tai, horsea for your replies. This is helpful.

The symptoms are mostly not there now. I fasted a day after which the pain, heaviness and fatigue went away. After breaking my fast I haven't felt it come back so far. Sometimes I feel a sensation in the mid-back or flank but this one seems muscular, from having played quite a bit of sports this week, when I went on a picnic, after many years. However, I do feel my kidneys are congested, given the experience I had two days ago and also from an intuitive sense of the sensations my body has been having over the months.

So I am cutting down on the dates and starting the kidney cleansing tea by Moritz. Will go back to high-oxalate foods in a week to see if eating them makes any difference.

organic1, yes, it is probably a good idea to see a doctor and get some tests done, although I am averse to taking any medication he gives me.

horsea, what kind of oriental herbal tonic are you suggesting?

Tai, when you do have the time, could you share the 5-elements explanation you spoke of? I do eat sprouted sesame seems - although white ones. Are black ones better? I should try them next time anyhow. Poppy seeds - haven't tried those yet but will.

What is the URL of your youtube channel?

When you say chronic sciatica is a warning of weakness, do you mean muscular weakness? For several years I did strengthening exercises my chiropractor and physiotherapist gave me. They helped keep the pain under limits. After a while I realised that even if I did not do them the pain remained the same, which was not the case in the beginning. I am assuming that this meant that I had reached a certain level of muscle strength which remained. I go for an hour long walk every other day or more, that is my only exercise in the last few months. Before that I have alternated between yoga and tai chi.

I don't have a weight machine, but from occasional checks my weight hovers around 116 lb, at 5'8" / 173 cm height. Some would say that is underweight, but I have an unusually slender skeletal structure - which I assume I cannot change now that I am no longer a teenager - so taking that into account perhaps I am OK.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2016 04:49AM by iandthou.

organic1

<<Nettle leaf and seed is one of the best herbs for supporting kidney function. Nettle leaf also supports liver function too, and the adrenal glands, thyroid, connective tissue, digestive system, removes uric acid, has anti-histamine properties through its rich quercetin phyto-nutrient content and finally>>

anti-inflammatory properties.>>



cool stuff!!

I & thou:
When you say chronic sciatica is a warning of weakness, do you mean muscular weakness? For several years I did strengthening exercises my chiropractor and physiotherapist gave me. They helped keep the pain under limits. After a while I realised that even if I did not do them the pain remained the same, which was not the case in the beginning. I am assuming that this meant that I had reached a certain level of muscle strength which remained.

tai
if the disc pain is stabbing like a knife and fixed, this is usually some stagnation that blood movers and local acupunture can help, plus herbal poultices and patches. But if the lumbar pain is dull and aching, this is usually a deficiency. IT makes a difference with what herbs are given. when repairing herniated discs, kidney tonics are given (not kidney cleansing herbs; although some tonics do cleanse naturally but not forcefully). when I say weakness, I do mean whole lumbar weakness: bone, cartilage, kidneys and "jing (essence)".

Yes, the black sesame are better than brown or white ones.

I once put a link to five element explanation and someone found a meat reference somewhere (like deer antler or something). maybe look it up yourself. Excess earth element (sweet flavor) can attack water element (kidneys/Urinary bladder). Vegan herbs are sufficient to tonify kidneys.

black seeds are good. you should sprout the black mung beans. I bought some here but they didn't sprout, even though they were organic. Sprout the black lentils, black mung dahl, black rice. Get your calories from those. And Black sesame is important. and sprout the poppy seeds too. DOn't wash the color away

Parsley is good.

find the green herbs that are high in calcium, juice them and rebuild your disc.
finding really good herbal patches are important for speedy recovery. THey have so many in Chinese medicine, I bet they have some in ayurveda. I have made poultices by hand but people don't like the mess and the oil stains, even though they are better.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2016 06:58AM by Tai.

aloe vera juice

Thank you Tai. What is your youtube channel? Or Would you rather keep it private?

Hi, I am still learning how to hold a camera, so all my videos are really rough. I am just starting. I am going to mainly focus on natural healing for the people I am helping (I am so over due with this, let's see if I will have time). THe food videos were just to share with folks on the forum. But anyway, you can see the poppy and sesame sprouts.

my channel:

[www.youtube.com]

sproutarian man's channel:

[www.youtube.com]

Lou Corona (you will have to search for Dan the Man's videos of making coconut almond yogurt. Just use mineral rich sprouted seeds)
[www.youtube.com]

Hippocrates health institute
[www.youtube.com]

iandthou asked:

horsea, what kind of oriental herbal tonic are you suggesting?

I cannot diagnose exactly what you need. It is best you visit a practitioner of classical or traditional chinese medicine (or trad. Japanese medicine) and let him prescribe precisely what YOU need. Best to you. It sometimes seems to be an uphill battle, doesn't it, but if you put all your courage into it, good things happen.