So Norman LaLanne outlived his brother Jack even though he was not into healthy living and exercises as his brother Jack?

Interesting...

Maybe when it comes to longevity it has to do more with the genes than the diet.

On diet and exercise alone we could have Doug Graham or Brian Clement live past 100 years.

On the other hand, Jack & Norman's first born brother, Irving, died at age four & 1/2 years---his newspaper obit didn't say from what---in 1911. Children frequently died in childhood back then as any trip through an old cemetery easily tells you. Jack's father, John, died at age 58, though Jack always claimed age 50 (because he didn't take care of his health), and his mother, Jennie, died at around age 87, though Jack claimed age 94 for her.

So all over the ballpark...

>Children frequently died in childhood back then

I guess we came a long way. I remember growing up so many of my friends died young.

Life expectancy was about 40 years not long ago

"Generally throughout the 1830s and the 1840s trade was off and food prices were high. The poorer classes, being underfed, were less resistant to contagion. Also, during the more catastrophic years the weather was extremely variable, with heavy rains following prolonged droughts. Population, especially in the Midlands and in some seaport cities and towns, was growing rapidly without a concurrent expansion in new housing. Crowding contributed to the relatively fast spread of disease in these places. The Registrar General reported in 1841 that while mean life expectancy in Surrey was forty-five years, it was only thirty-seven in expectancy in London and twenty-six in Liverpool. The average age of "labourers, mechanics, and servants", at times of death was only fifteen. Mortality figures for crowded districts like Shoreditch, Whitechapel, and Bermondsey were typically half again or twice as high as those for middle-class areas of London." [www.victorianweb.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2016 02:09AM by RawPracticalist.

As to Live Food Products Co. (now Bragg Live Food Products, Inc.), its corporate history is somewhat interesting, and somewhat different than currently believed. My sources were from checking with the California Secretary of State's corporations' records, & Paul Bragg's probate file, which exists in Court records in Riverside County, California.

Paul Bragg originally filed Articles of Incorporation for his company on April 6, 1951, showing its then address as 3607 W. Pacific Avenue, Burbank, CA.

Then on September 29, 1971, a "Certificate of Winding Up & Dissolution of Live Food Products Co, A California corporation" was filed with the California Secretary of State (then Edmund G. Brown, Jr., now California's Governor), so said company no longer existed. Note that this was five years before Paul Bragg's death.

Then on December 28, 1972, over a year later, "Articles of Incorporation of Live Food Products, Inc," were filed with the California Secretary of State (still Jerry Brown). Its then-Board of Directors were members/employees of a Los Angeles attorneys' firm. On April 6, 1973, those Articles of Incorporation were amended with the CA Secretary of State reporting a change of corporate venue. The interesting thing about this document, however, is that Patricia Bragg signed it as "President" of this company over three years before Paul's Bragg's December 7, 1976 death, although it's commonly believed that she only took over after his death.

Considering this & all the other stuff, (also known as "reading between the lines", apparently Paul Bragg was not officially associated with Live Food Products #2 after dissolution of Live Foods Products #1 in 1971. My personal take on this story is that Paul Bragg retired from "health food product manufacturing" either before or when he essentially moved to Hawaii in the late 1960ties. He was interviewed extensively by the two Honolulu daily newspapers four times from 1969 thru 1975, and none mentioned a word about any existing Bragg food products, whether enzymes or apple cider vinegar or whatever, although one did mention his booklets being in Hawaii health food stores. His 1976 Florida death certificate also only gave his "last occupation" as a writer of health books, nothing about product manufacturing.

The Braggs are "mysterious" indeed.

Corrections/comments always appreciated.

Life expectancy was about 40 years not long ago

Until antibiotics and other medicines came along, infectious disease claimed the young as well as the old, as did respiratory illness in the big cities. More of the young died then, and the percentage of young people in the population was much greater. Therefore, the life expectancy figure (an abstract thing if you don't take a hard, close look at it) was much lower than it is today, but in no way does this suggest that everyone, or even the vast majority, died at a very young age.

Life expectancy for 1900 is given as 47.3 years, yet a good many people lived very long lives. It's important to understand that the life expectancy figures for a population refer to numbers, not age. If we have a large number of elderly in our population at some time, as we do now, we end up with a higher life expectancy figure. More younger people gives us a lower figure.

Our life expectancy is actually dropping, mainly because our modern diseases (diseases of degeneration) are proving deadlier than the infections of the past.

To sum up:


A. People who are real old today got there through the application of high tech medicine; people who lived to be equally old hundreds of years ago got there through their own naturally strong constitutions. There was nothing but simple natural medicines and procedures to get them through whatever ailed them.

B. More people than ever are dependent on costly life-upport today, at both ends of the life span. This boosts life-expectancy figu8res, but doesn't mean that we are living longer (than in the past) or that we are healthier.

>Until antibiotics and other medicines came along, infectious disease claimed the young as well as the old, as did respiratory illness in the big cities

What were the real causes of low life expectancy in the 1800s and 1900s?

What is the lack of antibiotics or just poor hygiene, unhealthy milieu of filth, poor sanitation, lack of adequate sewage disposal, contaminated waters?

Maybe antibiotics helped cured the diseases that did not need to exist if the waters and living conditions were clean.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2016 09:41PM by RawPracticalist.

Mother Nature always takes the weakest if there are no artificial methods of saving them. When a plague of one type or another is making the rounds, some exposed to it will live and some will die. The ones who survive, it's because they are tough and worthy of life and passing on their genes.

A certain portion of a population will always survive poor living conditions, dirty water, etc. without outside medical intervention.

Could be The End of The Story, as far as Patricia Bragg goes. Don't know if it was noticed but Bragg Live Food Products was sold in June of this year to "an investment group", which included Katy Perry, singer/entertainer & her fiancée, actor Orlando Bloom. I'm wondering if Patricia has some health problems---anyone here know?

Patricia Bragg is 90 year old. That is a milestone.





[www.latimes.com]

Yes, age 90 is a milestone indeed. She does have
some longevity in her family background in that her father lived to age 88 (he died as a result of an accident), and her half-brother to his early 90ties as I recall. On the other hand, both her mother & (full) brother only lived to their mid 60ties.

It will be interesting to see how the new ownership handles the company.

Paul Bragg was not a blood related to Patricia Bragg - he was her father in law. Patricia married Paul Bragg's son. He 'adopted' her, and it seemed like a better narrative to refer to her as his daughter.

Patricia also had an organic farm in New South Wales Australia which she sold several years ago.

I looked a little further into the Bragg company & found that a "Linda Boardman" is now the current Chief Executive Officer (this was Patricia's former title) of Bragg Live Food Products & has been since March of this year---according to Ms. Boardman's "Linked In" post. She apparently is associated with one of the new owner groups. Also, on September 17, 2019, the company filed an updated Statement of Information (an "SI" with the California Secretary of State advising of the new/current Board Members, and "Katheryn Hudson", more well known as "Katy Perry", was one of them. I didn't see Orlando Bloom's name there however.

So the changes are coming.

BTW, the reason I questioned Patricia Bragg's health & perhaps the reason for the Bragg company sale, was a document filed with the California Secretary of State on March 7, 2019. (you can look up for yourself, it is a public record). It's a typed form, except for her signature, which is SO shakey, not even close to her signature in past filings. Therefore when I later saw that Ms. Boardman took over as CEO in that same month (per her "Linked In" page), which seemed to have happened a few months before the actual company sale, I had to wonder if it was more than coincidence.

But if I've reached a erroneous conclusion, please be sure to let me know.

And yes, we now know that Paul Bragg was not ever Patricia's bio-father, as stated above by "BJ". But it makes for yet another "Bragg Story".

I noticed today that the Bragg.com site has finally been updated. The most notable change is the new product label. It shows the name BRAGG with the same two pictures of Paul & Patricia, but only Est. 1912. None of their first names, alleged academic titles, etc. remain as before. Much cleaner looking.
"
As to the brand/company's "establishment date" as "1912", I greatly doubt that. There's no evidence that I've run across that Paul Bragg made any health products prior to around 1926 or 1927 nor stepped his foot into California until 1921 when he was hired by the Los Angeles YMCA as some sort of exercise trainer. Before that, his time was spent on the East Coast & some Midwest areas, with his last job as a high school football coach in Pennsylvania in 1920. Perhaps the new owners could shed some light on this?

I should add that fairly recently I ran across an advertisement in one of the old Washington D.C. newspapers from, I think 1912, when Paul Bragg would have been about 17 years old. He was advertising giving exercise (or maybe bar bell) lessons at the D.C. address which was also that of his parents (as shown in census records & city directories for many years back in the day). That may have been where the "1912" idea came from. But it would still be a stretch to say that he established a health food company at age 17. I guess his birth year claim of "1881" would fit the "1912 establishment story" better---if only it were true.

So this is not true?

Quote

According to Patricia, her father founded Bragg Live Foods in 1912, opened the Health Food Store in Los Angeles in the 1920s, launched Health Builder magazine in the 1930s, helped found the National Nutritional Foods Association in 1936, and hosted the "Health and Happiness" television show with Patricia in the late 1950s and early 1960s. Along the way, he and Patricia wrote and published Bragg Healthy Lifestyle, Build Powerful Nerve Force, Apple Cider Vinegar, Healthy Heart, The Miracle of Fasting, Super Power Breathing for Super Energy, Bragg Back Fitness Program, Water: The Shocking Truth and Build Strong, Healthy Feet.

[www.newhope.com]

Interesting article. I actually contacted Vicky Uhland, its writer, when I first read it on-line in 2008, & she contacted me. I think she was surprised to find out that a lot(not all) of Patricia's version of both hers & Paul's life stories were fabricated. Ms. Uhland did not seem to be happy about this turn of events. In the meantime, after publishing the Uhland article (as originally written) at the Bragg website, the article was "revised" there, but of course not mentioned as such, & it remains associated with the Bragg website to this day. It's also interesting to compare the "original" & "revised by Bragg" versions. Just mentioning that article's history.

As to the paragraph you specifically cited, NO, I do not buy that Paul established/founded Bragg Live Food Products in 1912; however, he did establish or co-establish what sound like early "health spas" or clubs in downtown Los Angeles, CA commencing in about 1927, but only after his years as an employee in the physical education area at the Los Angeles YMCA & the Redondo Beach, San Luis Obispo, & probably Pasadena, California high schools between 1921 & 1926.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2020 08:12PM by KFCA.

So is his legacy really tarnished because he lied about his age?

His book the miracle of fasting was groundbreaking. [www.amazon.com]

And he lived past 90. That is in itself a huge achievement.

Cannot we just say that he was human as most of us?

Many of us lie, even world leaders.

Who is Wade Frazier? [ahealedplanet.net]

Oh dear, how easy we excuse sociopathic liars. Paul Bragg definitely raised the bar on that subject. And it was "financially lucrative" too, which always helps.

And since he didn't live "past 90", no "huge achievement" there.

And, by the way, I seem to recall that The Miracle of Fasting book was where Bragg created a fictional sister (I don't have a copy--I perused it in a health food store once), who, by using his fasting method since it repudiately also "worked" for the underweight, changed from a skinny, unpopular girl to the local Belle of the Ball, had many suitors, successfully married & had many children. Forgot the name he gave her, but, if memory serves, "her story", per Paul, went on for several pages.

Since in either the 1900 or 1910 US Census, the question was asked of a married woman how many children she gave birth to & how many were still living, and Paul's mother answered "4" in both, I gave him only a slight benefit of the doubt because his mother had only mentioned "3" children by name in either Census, namely Paul & his two brothers, & perhaps the sister heretofore mentioned by Paul in his "landmark book" was from an earlier marriage & living elsewhere with hubby & kids. Well until I ran across Paul Bragg's mother's obituary from 1934 in the Los Angeles Times. (His parents had retired & moved from DC to California in the early 1930ties). By gosh, his mother did have a 4th child, but it was another boy, born in 1880, either from an earlier marriage or something else not determined. So James, Paul, John & the somewhat-forgotten-Rufus (who always went by the surname "Chappuis", which was Caroline Bragg's maiden name) made up the mystery of the "4", and no "sister" involved.

So yes Paul lied a lot & even extensively in the books people paid money for.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2020 10:23AM by KFCA.

How's this for one from left field! I had the book on 3 occasions and must have read it 100 times. Does this seem to ring a bell, Louise?

I don't have the book, but it just sprang to mind.If you can lie about your age, create a daughter ( I suppose it's easier than having to write ' my daughter in law' every time ) why not create a fictional sister.

Paul Braggs most famous protege was Jack LaLanne and he lived till 97 so he did well, and he was quite healthy till near the end.

BJ:You are correct. The fictional sister of Paul Bragg WAS named "Louise". Better memory than mine!

Actually I do believe that Paul Bragg legally adopted Patricia as his daughter. Oddly, one of the few true things.

As far as Jack LaLanne being a protégé of Paul Bragg, I greatly doubt that story, which was probably dreamed up by a Hollywood press agent. By the way Jack died at 96; it was his brother, Norman, who died at 97, several years before Jack.

According to Jack LaLanne in his numerous books, he recounted how he was a skinny, pimply weak kid who wore glasses when at 14 years of age his mum took him to a lecture by Paul Bragg in Oakland? Calif. There Bragg talked about the detrimental effects of junk food and processed food and the importance of exercise and from then on his life changed forever.

His mother lived to 92 so genetics must have played some ( or a great ) part in the families longevity. But there is a difference between living a long healthy active life which Jack did, as opposed to existing till 97 ( I don't know how his brothers health was ).

We sound like we're a couple of dinosaurs from times past. In Australia it's almost impossible to find any of the old timers' books that were popular in the 60's, 70's and 80's. And with the internet and the cost of shipping to Australia they're more or less non existent. About 10 years ago I ordered David Wolfe's book ' The Sunfood Diet ' and it cost $55 to send it down here, but it was worth it.

BJ: I've done fairly extensive research on Jack LaLanne & his connection with Paul Bragg, and his story about attending a Paul Bragg lecture in Oakland in sad shape which turned his life around don't jibe with some facts that I gleaned from local newspapers (I am well acquainted with Oakland & Berkeley California.)

First of all, Jack was born on September 26, 1914 in San Francisco, and the FIRST time Paul Bragg gave a series of evening health lectures at the Oakland Woman's City Club where Jack claimed he attended was in October 1930. That would make Jack 16 years old, not 14, at the time. However I have access to the Berkeley Daily Gazette newspaper issues from back then (the Lalanne family moved to Berkeley, CA somewhere in 1928 per city directories), and there's ample evidence there that Jack represented the Berkeley YMCA in at least two sporting events, wrestling & javelin throwing, in the early months of 1930, which was about six months BEFORE Paul Bragg's first Oakland lecture series. Jack's entry weight as reported in that newspaper for both? 130 to 139 pounds! Not exactly the "skinny, weak kid" of his story. Additionally the Berkeley newspaper covered his baseball career for that 1930 spring & summer. He seemed to be an outstanding pitcher, & even was appointed manager of one of teams sponsored by local Berkeley merchants. Again, several months BEFORE Paul Bragg first came to town.

And that's why I said the story that Jack told in later years about his "miracle health turnaround" via attending a Paul Bragg lecture sounded somewhat like a press agent's dream.

Also, although Jack claimed his mother lived to age 94, she actually died in her late 80ties, I think 88, but I'll get back to you on that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2020 09:57AM by KFCA.

OK I checked on Jack's mother's actual age, and it was 89 at her death Jennie Garaig LaLanne was born in France on October 28, 1884 & died in California on December 14, 1973, so she turned 89 less than 2 months before she died. I have a copy of Jack's last book, "Live Young Forever", copyright 2009. On page 22 there's a photo of Jack and his mother and a handwritten notation adjoining "My mother and me. She lived to be 94!" So I understand why one would believe she actually lived to that age. I guess 89 is not too shabby, but saying she lived into her 90ties would be more impressive.

Oddly enough, in the same book, he went in the opposite direction with his father. On page 47, when talking about the circumstances of his father's death, he says "At that time Dad was in his early 40s, no longer the svelte dancing coach who had met my mother on the ship from France". His father, John Francis LaLanne, actually died in a San Francisco hospital in September of 1939 at age 58!

But don't believe that romantic "meeting on the ship from France story" either because in at least one earlier newspaper interview, Jack said his parents first met in San Francisco when his father was giving dance lessons, and his mother was one of his students. Don't know how true that story is either, but since ship records show that his mother entered the US from France thru the Port of New Orleans, LA, with her family in 1890 at age 6, and his father entered the same port from France with his mother, Therese LaLanne, also at age 6, but in 1887, the San Francisco dance hall meeting at least seems likely.

Clearly Jack wasn't on Paul Bragg's level in telling "tall stories", but he certainly had his moments.

Here's a couple of Bragg stories.

Many years ago I read an article in people's magasine where Paul Bragg was asked ' when does sexual activity end? ' seeing as how he promoted himself as a life extension expert. According to the person who trawled through all his birth / military records et al, he was born in 1895 and died in 1976 so he passed away at 81. His reply was ' you'll have to ask someone else, I'm only 94 '.

The other story was in Chet Days online ' book ' which I subscribed to in the early 2000's. Bragg said he didn't eat meat / slash flesh from animals as he grew up on a farm and saw the slaughter of the animals so he couldn't eat meat. According to people who knew him in Hawaii he would go to the lunchtime buffet and help himself to the hamburger patties at the buffet, as well as everything else.

This doesn't detract from all the good he did, but I always expected a higher standard from people like him. Of course in those days once the books were written that was it - a snapshot in time. Now with the internet, YouTube and fone cameras it's harder for people to '' keep secrets '', like Rawvana, caught out eating fish on camera.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2020 02:26AM by BJ.

Well, first of all, Paul Bragg never grew up on a farm. Never, Ever. Although that is the story he told. I have a copy of his "booklet"
Bragg Apple Cider Vinegar System from 1972, wherein, on page 12, he states that "My father was a splendid farmer and many times I would watch him add cider vinegar to the feed of ailing cattle. It acted like magic."

Paul Bragg's father's father was a "grain miller" in Greenfield, Indiana. Sometime after his high school graduation, Paul's father moved on Indianapolis, Indiana, a neighboring city, and Indiana's State Capitol, and apparently entered an apprentice program for printers. This is where he married Paul's mother, Caroline, and their first son, James Elton Bragg, was born. After that, the new small family moved on to Batesville, Indiana, where Paul's father ran a newspaper for a few years. Paul was the second son, born there in 1895, and, toward the end of Paul Bragg's birth year, his father took a Government Civil Service test, passed it, and the increased Bragg family moved on to Washington, D.C., where the third son, John Harrison Bragg, was born in 1899.

Paul's father worked in the U.S. Government Printing Office in D.C. from about 1896 until he retired sometime in the late 1920s, when Paul's parents moved to Southern California. Caroline Bragg died there in 1934, and Paul's father remarried---a widow lady from back in Indianapolis in about 1936, and they moved on to Florida, where Robert Elton Bragg, Paul's father, died in 1944.

And that's the story of the Bragg Family.

What I find more interesting is uncovering why people do what they do. How much money did the Braggs make on their books vs. health products like apple cider vinegar? Their vinegar is in most stores I go to. The food and seasonings have nothing to do with elaborate claims. When I would go to health shows, it seems their books were free, like archaic pamphlets, while their food products were for sale.

KFCA brought to light some lies. How much $$$$ did the Braggs profit from those lies? Because for me, I never bought a single book of theirs but I have been a customer of their vinegar for 20 years. I use it to make tinctures.
Patricia used to wear these elaborate homely outfits at the health shows that were a throwback to the 50s? I don't even know what time period. But the books were part of that homely appearance. the advice was so fluffy. I didn't think anyone at the health shows ever took those books seriously, because her booth was in the food section not in the serious health sections. so the books were just like archaic musings from the 50s, sorry to say. But I didn't even feel they were touted as anything serious in my generation. The whole presentation, including the books, was like a caricature.

Caricature aside, I always trusted the vinegar. The mother in the vinegar always seemed better than any other brand of raw apple cider vinegar in stores. To this day, that is the vinegar I buy.

I had a friend who lied about his own health in order to justify his Christian science religion. He wasn't lying to con people; he was lying to convince himself. Yet an outsider might accuse him of malicious intent, when it was him just trying to make his religion work by positive affirmation. He tried to use raw veganism to "perfect" his religion, as if the founder, Mary Baker Eddy, would have been able to throw away her eyeglasses and pain meds, if she had been a raw vegan. My friend pushed raw veganism on people never to make money, but to realize an unattainable ideal that he wished for more than anything.

By the way, I don't know if, in the past. I recommended an article from the Los Angeles Times dated in March 2000 & written by Charles Perry, Times Staff Writer. It's a blast to read since Mr. Perry has my favorite dry sense of humor. Its title is "The Vita-Veg Days", and I checked and its still available for reading on the internet.

Unfortunately Mr. Perry didn't do all his homework on Paul Bragg, at least at the time he wrote his article, but believed in Paul's erroneous age ("The most enduring of the food gurus was Paul C. Bragg, who lived well into his 90s" as a start. His Vinegar section on Paul is interesting as even I picked up from the old Bragg books that he did a dramatic turn in his recommendations on that condiment in later books. I doubt Paul Bragg ever sold a drop of Organic Apple Cider Vinegar in his lifetime, but did make money on his book (under various titles) on the subject itself in his later years.