This herb is supposed to be similar to ginseng, and it contains B12, anyone have any experience with it? Thanks!

[www.dragonherbs.com]

Dang Gui, Angelica sinensis, is used by men and women alike as a superb blood tonic. It is also an important blood vitalizing herb (e.g., it improves blood circulation). Men use it as a muscle building blood tonic. However, Dang Gui is most famous as a women's tonic, because women so often use it as a blood tonic and to regulate the female menstrual cycle. It is found in most women's tonic preparations.

. . . excerpt from halfway down the huge page . . .

The hemotinic, or blood tonic, effect of Angelica sinensis is now attributed to its vitamin B12, folic acid, folinic acid, nicotinic acid and biotin contents. Angelica sinensis is also rich in the metal cobalt. Cobalt is the major element responsible of vitamin B12’s hemotinic (blood enriching) action. Experiments have shown that once vitamin B12 loses 0.01 gram of cobalt, its hemotinic effect immediately disappears.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2007 04:25AM by tropical.

The only plants that might have appreciable b12 are the ones that you fertilize with your own excretment or steep in an artificial concentrated source of B12 so that their roots take up some of it. But even so you should not count on them unless you have your blood tested periodically and it stays in the normal range.

So is that where the B12 comes from in animal sources too - contamination?

Milk - cows dragging their udders in @#$%& or their tails slapping against their udders and then the udders not getting completely washed off and the milk contacting the outside of the udder and the @#$%& as the cow is milked.

Eggs - the hen lays them and they drop into @#$%& which is absorbed into the shell.

Meat - well we all know that gets contaminated during butchering and then hopefully gets washed off.

OR is it intrisically in the uncontaminated animal product?



Now this is totally interesting, B12 is what gives red blood cells their dimple:
[www.pamrotella.com]
Each red blood cell is shaped like a doughnut without the hole. This fits a lot more oxygen, O2, than round balls would. Yet, if there isn't enough vitamin B12, the dimple isn't put into them to make them doughnut shaped. This reduces the body's oxygen supply and the disorder is called "pernicious" anemia. The changed shape of the red blood cells is reflected in a bigger volume called mean cell volume (MCV). The correct volume for red blood cells is about 90 cubic microns. Many elderly persons have a MCV over 100!



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2007 04:58AM by tropical.

You know what, it probably doesn't matter if the B12 in animal products comes from contamination or not because you will never get an uncontaminated product (unless you use costly operation room style sterilization procedures).

I wonder why the elderly have worse blood, is it aging, drugs they are taking killing the B12 baceria or what? It isn't veganism.

why bother to ask when you are so apparently convinced already?

My understanding also is that no plant food has B12. There are some foods that have a B12 analog, but our bodies can't use this, and it blocks the type that we can take up if it gets to the B12 receptors in our bodies before the type that we can take up. Maybe this Dang Gui has the B12 analog.



This way is not compatible with Zen practice. This way IS Zen practice. - Dr. Doug Graham

Nothing whatsoever should be attached to. - Buddha

tropical Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So is that where the B12 comes from in animal
> sources too - contamination?
>
> Milk - cows dragging their udders in @#$%& or their
> tails slapping against their udders and then the
> udders not getting completely washed off and the
> milk contacting the outside of the udder and the
> @#$%& as the cow is milked.
>
> Eggs - the hen lays them and they drop into @#$%&
> which is absorbed into the shell.
>
> Meat - well we all know that gets contaminated
> during butchering and then hopefully gets washed
> off.


I love this response, and it seems that I'm the only person in this thread who even bothered to read the link you gave. Personally, I agree with comments other people have made here and elsewhere that B-12 either doesn't exist, is yet to be found in plant foods, or is simply inherent in our human bodies unless the stomach is severely compromised. It doesn't have anything to do with veganism.

As far as I know, many pure herbivores can produce their own B12. Many of them may also eat their own @#$%&.

[www.petpages.com]

"Do not be alarmed if you see your rabbit eat some of his feces. These are called cecal pellets, and are a vital part of his diet. Caecal pellets are soft, smelly, clumpy feces, and are a rabbit's only supply of Vitamin B12."


Omnivores who choose veganism by choice and choose not to suppliment should take a suppliment in my opinion. I do. I also have oral sex with my girlfriend (who is not vegan and also takes b12 occasionally anyway).

Better safe than sorry.

Hey Narz, I think that's just a little bit too much information for this borad!

Rob

--
Rob Hull - Funky Raw
My blog: [www.rawrob.com]

wild-aloe Wrote:
> it seems that I'm the
> only person in this thread who even bothered to
> read the link you gave.

Thanks for reading the big link, most of it has nothing to do with B12. It looks like no one uses Dang Gui for B12 supplementation, but I still think I'll try it for it's other bloodbuilding properties.

ha ha ha! that's hillarious!

beavers eat their feces yearly as well. they store the absolutely undigestable fiberous material in their appendix until it's broken down and then excrete it to be eaten again. i read that in the book Patty by farley mowat about a hundred years ago and it made me wonder if that was what our appendix used to be for. it's fairly useless now and often gets infected, i think from lack of use, and has to be removed. curious.

coco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i read that in the book Patty by farley mowat about a hundred years ago...

Wow coco, you read it about a hundred years ago, you've got an amazing memory!

Rob

--
Rob Hull - Funky Raw
My blog: [www.rawrob.com]

what can i say, i feel old today.

coco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ha ha ha! that's hillarious!
>
> beavers eat their feces yearly as well. they store
> the absolutely undigestable fiberous material in
> their appendix until it's broken down and then
> excrete it to be eaten again. i read that in the
> book Patty by farley mowat about a hundred years
> ago and it made me wonder if that was what our
> appendix used to be for. it's fairly useless now
> and often gets infected, i think from lack of use,
> and has to be removed. curious.

I miss my appendix. They cut it out of me in college.

i don't miss mine, the damn thing nearly killed me when i was 11. good riddance.

Well I suppose it's better that it's out now.

If it were to rupture in the future at some point when/where I didn't have access to a surgeon I'd be a dead duck.

tropical Wrote:
-
> I wonder why the elderly have worse blood, is it
> aging, drugs they are taking killing the B12
> baceria or what? It isn't veganism.

It's a natural consequence of aging. The production of the stomach's hydrochloric acid declines with age as well as the "intrinsic factor" required to cleave B12 from animal foods. The government suggests that the best sources for adults over 50 are supplements and fortified foods.

[ods.od.nih.gov]

more detail on this suggestion is here:
[orsted.nap.edu]

Cool links arugula, thanks!

From the first link: It says that 30% of adults over 50 have a stomach condition which makes it hard to absorb B12 which does not come from supplements.

WOW!!!!!!!!!!! 30% !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Older adults
Hydrochloric acid helps release vitamin B12 from the protein in food. This must occur before vitamin B12 binds with intrinsic factor and is absorbed in your intestines. Atrophic gastritis, which is an inflammation of the stomach, decreases the secretion of gastric juices, including hydrochloric acid. Less hydrochloric acid decreases the amount of vitamin B12 separated from proteins in foods and can result in poor absorption of vitamin B12 [10,22-26]. Decreased hydrochloric acid secretion also results in growth of normal bacteria in the small intestines. The bacteria may take up vitamin B12 for their own use, further contributing to a vitamin B12 deficiency [27].

Up to 30 percent of adults aged 50 years and older may have atrophic gastritis, an increased growth of intestinal bacteria, and be unable to normally absorb vitamin B12 in food. They are, however, able to absorb the synthetic vitamin B12 added to fortified foods and dietary supplements. Vitamin supplements and fortified foods may be the best sources of vitamin B12 for adults older than age 50 years [7].


. . . Then it goes on to say that B12 deficiencies are about the same among the age groups it is just that the symptoms show up in the elderly more than the young. So that would make about 30% of the entire population deficient!


Do healthy young adults need a vitamin B12 supplement?
It is generally accepted that older adults are at greater risk of developing a vitamin B12 deficiency than younger adults. One study, however, suggests that the prevalence of vitamin B12 deficiency in young adults may be greater than previously thought. This study found that the percentage of subjects in three age groups (26-49 years, 50-64 years, and 65 years and older) with deficient blood levels of vitamin B12 was similar across all age groups but that symptoms of vitamin B12 deficiency were not as apparent in younger adults. This study also suggested that those who did not take a supplement containing vitamin B12 were twice as likely to be vitamin B12 deficient as supplement users, regardless of age group. However, people who did not use supplements but did eat fortified cereal more than 4 times per week appeared to be protected from deficient blood levels of vitamin B12. Better tools and standards to diagnose vitamin B12 deficiencies are needed to make specific recommendations about the appropriateness of vitamin B12 supplements for younger adults [51].



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2007 05:31PM by tropical.