Hey Brian,

Here is a special Video for you...

[www.youtube.com]

Be sure to watch the whole Video as I mentioned you specifically several times and I'm sure you will be pleased with what you hear!

Hi John,

I did watch the video, and while l don't agree with a number of things you said, l do agree that we should not shoot inside the tent, and l do agree that making a sproutarian diet more marketable and easy to follow is essential. After listening to many folks and seeing their failure on the sproutarian diet, one of the things I learned was to make a raw food diet easy to do and sustainable something a person can eat, so that means making a diet do-able for busy people and being able to allow a raw diet to fill and satisfy a person so it doesn't feel like a chore to eat. The ferments, seeds and green juices are the central core of the diet, and they go a long long way in adding concentrated nutrition to the diet and sustaining oneself and keeping a person full for hours without wanting to eat anything else or crave other foods.

Raw vegan diets have a high failure rate because people find them very difficult to stick to, but it shouldn't be like this. I believe my sproutarian diet solves this problem.

Btw, the sproutarian diet I promote has variations that can be tailored to the individual needs, it needs to be like that. Some people need higher carbs, some need higher protein, and some do better on higher fat.

I eat my sprouted seeds in the morning and don't need another meal until evening. One meal can last me for 8 hours. Why? Because l concentrate on nutritious concentrated foodstuffs. The issue with eating raw fruits and vegetables is that they don't fill one for too long and cravings can occur, so people find those types of diets hard to stick with. You may bring up that they need to fast etc, but not everyone wants to do that, many people just want a full belly each day and to eat healthy, and that is why the raw vegan diet I promote IS the future. I am not anti fruit and vegetables,l just say to eat those two foodstuffs as a side dish and to make the bulk of the diet the sprouted foods because they are the heavy hitters that no other food can compare with.

Regards: The Sproutarian.

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2016 06:32AM by The Sproutarian Man.

9:12 - 9:23 = a classic!
13:50 - 13:56 = brilliant!
13:50 - 14:27 = classic!

www.thesproutarian.com

Hi JOhn,
I saw all three of your videos about McDougall and also this video about not shooting inside the tent and how you don't view McDougall as being inside the tent. Are you aware that McDougall sends his patients to True North, a fasting center where they have not only water fasting but also juice fasting?

Dr. Alan Goldhamer and Dr. John McDougall discuss the health benefits of Water Fasting Therapy

[www.youtube.com]

[www.healthpromoting.com]

Are you also aware that T. Colin Campbell and McDougall are friends and Campbell underwent a serious water fast to remove dioxin poisoning, so their awareness of fasting is real and not lip service?

[www.vegsource.com]

Dr. McDougall Webinar: The Dietary Treatment of Cancer

[www.youtube.com]

As he says at 14:45, chemotherapy only typically works for lymphoma, testicular cancer, childhood cancer, leukemia, but he says it usually doesn't work for everything else, and so he is recommending using diet and natural methods for cancer versus chemo and radiation and surgery

ONe of his patients:
Stage 4 breast cancer (spread to bone and lung) recovered
[www.drmcdougall.com]

As a reminder, there was a forum member who visited here last year who says he can only eat a McDougall style diet in the winter in Sweden due to his poverty (fruits and veggies are very expensive there in the winter) and he also had no space to grow sprouts. So for such people, a raw diet may be possible only seasonally. So is McDougal trying to sabotage the raw diet by giving practical advice? I have never heard McDougall speak against the raw vegan diet for those who are doing it successfully. He even acknowledged that you can eat potatoes raw, but you just won't absorb as many calories from them raw compared to if they were cooked. Mike Arnstein has emphasized this to new raw fooders that they may need to eat more raw initially because they won't absorb as many calories. THis reveals something important. What is a skinny underweight vegan male going to choose to eat in Sweden in the winter? Raw or cooked potato? Is McDougall outside of the tent for explaining the science behind this to hungry people?

YOu want McDougall to say that raw is the best and that cooked is second, and if he says that, then he will be in the tent. But what is the best for a really skinny hungry person with a very limited budget in a cold climate?

What does it mean to always define what is best when the best is inaccessible? I think it's best for my body to live in Hawaii, but that is not the best for my career and life path. IT's best to eat heirloom tomatoes, but maybe only the hybrid are ripe today. It's best to have your own garden and pick your food immediately before eating, but how many can have that? It's best to live near the equator and eat perfectly sun ripened fruit, but that is not possible for everyone. You want McDougall to declare that raw is best, when he says that civilizations have developed due to the convenience of starch. You want him to choose between civilization and ideal health.

It's one thing for natural healers like Dr. Richard Schulze to recommend people to temporarily move to California for radical natural healing with juice fasting and raw foods, but it's another for someone like McDougall who has taken an interest in global nutrition. And because there are places like Hippocrates Institute (low fat raw) and Gabriel Cousen's center (high fat raw) that specialize in raw, doesn't it make sense that McDougal serves another niche...the bridge between the mainstream medical community.

In closing, one of my dearest vegan friends overcame cancer in the early 90s (and also many other diseases: skin cancer, breast tumor, diabetes, strokes, rheumatoid arthritis, flesh eating bacterial infection that caused him to flatline) by going totally vegan and initially juice fasting for weeks and weeks and later eating a McDougall style diet (whole foods, simple). He sees the benefit of raw, but his extreme poverty has limited his diet to a whole foods vegan starch-based diet. 25 years later, he is still going strong. Granted he would be stronger with more raw, but that would require more money. On a side note, he noted that many raw vegans would dabble in raw animal foods when their diet wasn't working anymore for fear of eating anything cooked from the plant kingdom. Whereas, he is firmly convinced that being a vegan (whole foods) is what has kept him alive all these years, not raw.

So, now I ask you John: Is McDougall advocating this diet for HIS pocketbook or for the pocketbook of the masses?

These are John Rose's videos I am referring to:
[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2016 02:19AM by Tai.

at 37:00 minutes, he recommends looking into TRue North for fasting. He might seem nonchalant when he says this, but consider someone like him is such an easy target for lawsuits that a conservative suggestion is in itself significant.

[www.youtube.com]

At 39:00 minutes, he describes how he was instrumental in changing breast cancer surgery laws to help inform women of their choices in Hawaii back in 1982
39:00-44:00 is good to hear.

Well you could just move to Sardinia and eat a balanced WILD + home grown diet including fish & goat including copious amounts of wine produced there and cure cancer illustrated in this one example but there are many more...

Curing Cancer

Most raw vegans barely scrape past 80 if that. What gives?

"A book read is not a Life lived" OR "Theory must = Reality".

Good post tai but i think all would agree that people need to do the best they can. The issue re mcdougall refers more to his insistence that We ARE statch eaters and it MADE us human and many of the other false concepts that he promotes about his diet and the raw diet.

Quote
Tai
Hi JOhn,
I saw all three of your videos about McDougall and also this video about not shooting inside the tent and how you don't view McDougall as being inside the tent. Are you aware that McDougall sends his patients to True North, a fasting center where they have not only water fasting but also juice fasting?

Dr. Alan Goldhamer and Dr. John McDougall discuss the health benefits of Water Fasting Therapy

[www.youtube.com]

[www.healthpromoting.com]

Are you also aware that T. Colin Campbell and McDougall are friends and Campbell underwent a serious water fast to remove dioxin poisoning, so their awareness of fasting is real and not lip service?

[www.vegsource.com]

Dr. McDougall Webinar: The Dietary Treatment of Cancer

[www.youtube.com]

As he says at 14:45, chemotherapy only typically works for lymphoma, testicular cancer, childhood cancer, leukemia, but he says it usually doesn't work for everything else, and so he is recommending using diet and natural methods for cancer versus chemo and radiation and surgery

ONe of his patients:
Stage 4 breast cancer (spread to bone and lung) recovered
[www.drmcdougall.com]

As a reminder, there was a forum member who visited here last year who says he can only eat a McDougall style diet in the winter in Sweden due to his poverty (fruits and veggies are very expensive there in the winter) and he also had no space to grow sprouts. So for such people, a raw diet may be possible only seasonally. So is McDougal trying to sabotage the raw diet by giving practical advice? I have never heard McDougall speak against the raw vegan diet for those who are doing it successfully. He even acknowledged that you can eat potatoes raw, but you just won't absorb as many calories from them raw compared to if they were cooked. Mike Arnstein has emphasized this to new raw fooders that they may need to eat more raw initially because they won't absorb as many calories. THis reveals something important. What is a skinny underweight vegan male going to choose to eat in Sweden in the winter? Raw or cooked potato? Is McDougall outside of the tent for explaining the science behind this to hungry people?

YOu want McDougall to say that raw is the best and that cooked is second, and if he says that, then he will be in the tent. But what is the best for a really skinny hungry person with a very limited budget in a cold climate?

What does it mean to always define what is best when the best is inaccessible? I think it's best for my body to live in Hawaii, but that is not the best for my career and life path. IT's best to eat heirloom tomatoes, but maybe only the hybrid are ripe today. It's best to have your own garden and pick your food immediately before eating, but how many can have that? It's best to live near the equator and eat perfectly sun ripened fruit, but that is not possible for everyone. You want McDougall to declare that raw is best, when he says that civilizations have developed due to the convenience of starch. You want him to choose between civilization and ideal health.

It's one thing for natural healers like Dr. Richard Schulze to recommend people to temporarily move to California for radical natural healing with juice fasting and raw foods, but it's another for someone like McDougall who has taken an interest in global nutrition. And because there are places like Hippocrates Institute (low fat raw) and Gabriel Cousen's center (high fat raw) that specialize in raw, doesn't it make sense that McDougal serves another niche...the bridge between the mainstream medical community.

In closing, one of my dearest vegan friends overcame cancer in the early 90s (and also many other diseases: skin cancer, breast tumor, diabetes, strokes, rheumatoid arthritis, flesh eating bacterial infection that caused him to flatline) by going totally vegan and initially juice fasting for weeks and weeks and later eating a McDougall style diet (whole foods, simple). He sees the benefit of raw, but his extreme poverty has limited his diet to a whole foods vegan starch-based diet. 25 years later, he is still going strong. Granted he would be stronger with more raw, but that would require more money. On a side note, he noted that many raw vegans would dabble in raw animal foods when their diet wasn't working anymore for fear of eating anything cooked from the plant kingdom. Whereas, he is firmly convinced that being a vegan (whole foods) is what has kept him alive all these years, not raw.

So, now I ask you John: Is McDougall advocating this diet for HIS pocketbook or for the pocketbook of the masses?

These are John Rose's videos I am referring to:
[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]

Great post Tai. We have to be realistic with our circumstances and possible limitations. Unfortunately raw foodism can cost a lot of money in various parts of the world, and getting produce can also be difficult in various areas. Cooking rice and beans and potatoes is more affordable and these foods are easy to find, and it is certainly far better than junk food and loads of animal products. McDougall appeals to so many people and he should be congratulated in getting more people interested in affordable plant foods. Many try raw vegan diets but not everyone wants to continue living like that, SO a McDougall style diet is a good affordable and easy eating option for many.

We are not like animals,our lifespans are not halved when we eat cooked wholefoods. Heck, the long lived people can live over 100 years of age and eat mainly cooked, and they have robust health and are pretty much disease free.

Eating cooked food may cause an increase in the white blood cell count, but the long lived cooked food diet people show that this is not a problem in itself because the body is designed to deal with this situation. The problem is when we are pushed past a tipping point due to numerous factors weakening the body.

I used to want to knock McDougall and Doug Graham and most of the others off their perch and say their ideas were lacking and no good, BUT l woke up to myself and stopped SHOOTING INSIDE THE TENT!!! These people promote different vegan diets and all these diets will suit different people. Some like all fruit,some like cooked vegan, others like sprouts, so what! Lets be happy these diet people are getting people into wholefoods.

I used to be a massive raw food snob and used to look down on almost everyone as being lightweights and clueless and doing raw foodism at the lowest levels. Not anymore! I refuse to shoot inside the tent. I want people to embrace a wholefood diet which best suits them, and IF they choose to eat some meat then please minimise it. Not everyone is going to eat perfectly, but if we can encourage them to make healthier choices then l will be happy with that.

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2016 06:24AM by The Sproutarian Man.

<<<Are you also aware that T. Colin Campbell and McDougall are friends and Campbell underwent a serious water fast to remove dioxin poisoning, so their awareness of fasting is real and not lip service?>>>

Yes, I know Campbell did a 10 Day Water Fast and it did a lot of damage because he wasn't getting any Glutathione for his liver to complete its 2 Phase Process to neutralize and eliminate these Environmental Toxins. I met with Campbell and he was going to do a Juice Fast with me, but he was too busy with his book tour at the time and then, he somehow lost interest.

I've only glanced at what else you wrote so far, but it looks like you don't understand the difference between Greed and our Subsequent Need for Money, which as I mentioned, is one of the reasons why McDougall is NOT Willing to Admit that he is WRONG!!!

As long as McDougall SLAMS Raw Food, as long as McDougall SLAMS the ONLY Solution to get us out of the Hell that we've created by Cooking our Food, EVERYTHING else he does is a DISTRACTION!!!

[www.youtube.com]

Hi John,

I liked your eloquent response video. It came from the heart.
[www.youtube.com]

Yet...
If all humans stopped cooking, I don't see humans suddenly no longer being fallen. Alcohol is still technically raw. Drugs can be made raw. Wild vegetarian animals eating a raw diet still kill each other, and so can humans. Look at how many people have died from fasting incorrectly and there were people overseeing that and are held karmically responsible for that. If the person responsible for some fasting deaths and fasting illnesses has been 100% raw for decades how can his "fallen" state be reconciled with his 100% raw purity. And rape is not unheard of in the 100% raw vegan community. Raw is not going to replace religion.

Anyway, I think you were referring to me in the video about not juice fasting. I did do a juice fast 9 years ago (it was short like 8 days) and I do plan to do an extended juice just as soon as my life allows for it. I am usually the person helping others with juice fasting (doing the juicing for them). The longest I have helped others with a juice fast is 3 weeks. I have seen the most amazing things happen in 3 weeks with juice, herbs and other natural healing modalities. THat's why I feel a special kinship with you.

I also acknowledge your unique goal of fasting until the waste leaves, even to the point of 3 months. I had a friend who did a juice fast for 7 months to cure liver cancer. At four months, he tried eating again and it didn't feel good, so he continued juicing another 3 months. (He did the Dr. Schuze incurables program with the whole gamut of herbal formulas, too)

Regarding McDougall slamming raw food... I don't see him do that. He acknowledges that people live better on raw vegan diets than the SAD diet. If you want to know about people who slam raw food, that would be some of my Chinese medicine teachers. If you listen to McDougall very carefully, he doesn't slam raw food. He has said it can be expensive (he got a $60 bill just for himself at a raw restaurant) and he has questioned high fat raw diets, but I never heard him slam raw outright. Teaching people how to eat cooked starch is not inherently slamming raw. There is one raw foodist that Fresh likes and quoted here and he says to eat cooked yam in the winter when fruit is low. ANd so many people doing high raw use starch to supplement their calories, like Lorraine Day.

It's not like raw food healing is that easy and self explanatory.
If raw food were that easy, why did Eydie Mae struggle with tumors on a raw diet?
Why did Kris Carr struggle with cancer for so many years?
(I personally aligned with CHristopher and SChulze's incurables method because I didn't see raw food/juice by itself work without herbs)
Can we really see McDougall's work as a distraction:
[www.drmcdougall.com]
Or does his work corroborate findings that Max Gerson discovered and that will help raw fooders refine their diets for different problems?

[www.drmcdougall.com]

Tai,

you note many caveats or exceptions to the benefits of raw foods that may be valid, nevertheless I'm sure that you would agree that pure raw food eating would solve a very high percentage of mental and physical problems in the world.


what I admired about the guy who ate some cooked soups is that he was doing what works and growing all his own food. doesn't mean I agree that what he was doing was the best healthwise.

what mcdougall said about raw

-not many people follow it

-not many people enjoy it

-human being is designed for starches

-can't produce enough food to feed the planet on raw food

-i studied steve jobs... etc

-fruit doesn't give you long appetite satisfaction

ALL of the above are false. Whether he's "attacking" raw food or not is not the issue. He can do what he wants, and many people who come from a worse diet do better on his diet. But he literally has no clue what he's talking about.

What JR and I do is promote the BEST diet. Anything less than the BEST diet will result in LOWER energy, among other things. Lower energy is a life killer, enjoyment killer. Most people don't get this because they have nothing to measure it by, they don't engage in a sport or exercise that exposes the failure of cooked diets.

regarding nikocado, he didn't get it to work because he didn't get past the "hungry all the time" phase. so he doesn't understand.

<<<Regarding McDougall slamming raw food... I don't see him do that. ... If you listen to McDougall very carefully, he doesn't slam raw food. ..., but I never heard him slam raw outright.>>>

[www.nealhendrickson.com]
Are You a Sickly Vegetarian (Vegan)?

...My point is being a vegan often does not equate to good health. Let me tell you about four different kinds of vegans that are examples of poor health. (I have called these “boys,” but you can substitute “girls.”)

Doughboys:

...

Soy Boys:

...

Greasy Boys:

...

Raw Boys:

Recently we spoke at a Christian-oriented women’s health conference, where the underlying belief of the event’s promoters was the best diet is one of mostly raw foods. The idea was that cooking destroys the nutritional value of the foods. There is always a little truth in every message – cooking does this, but the minor loss is unimportant, because of the overabundance of nutrients in plant foods.

Strict “raw fooders” avoid all cooked food. So what’s left to eat? You can’t eat raw rice, beans, soybeans, or wheat flour. Raw potatoes are possible to eat, but not too tasty. Some grains can be sprouted and they would fit the raw philosophy, but that might take planning days ahead of time. What is left for people who say they eat a raw food diet is sugar (fruits and juices) and fat (nuts, seeds, and avocados). The result is that people easily gain weight.

Then there are a few purists, who really do eat mostly healthy green and yellow vegetables – broccoli, cauliflower, pea pods, lettuce, and sprouts; and fruits. However, when this is their diet, they soon become very thin from lack of calories. Few people can maintain themselves on foods which are so dilute in calories, so in order to survive comfortably they pour oil all over their salads. The result is a high fat diet – with a large proportion of free oils. Then instead of being thin, they are fat and greasy skinned.

...
[www.nealhendrickson.com]

As fresh pointed put, McDougall is totally Clueless and does NOT know what he's talking about!

try this, mcdougall..

Strict “raw bonobos” avoid all cooked food. So what’s left to eat? You can’t eat raw rice, beans, soybeans, or wheat flour. Raw potatoes are possible to eat, but not too tasty. Some grains can be sprouted and they would fit the raw philosophy, but that might take planning days ahead of time. What is left for bonobos who say they eat a raw food diet is fruits and greens. The result is a lot of strength and endurance and a lot of sexual intercourse

stupid bonobos

you're sort of missing the point of a few things...



Yet...
If all humans stopped cooking, I don't see humans suddenly no longer being fallen. Alcohol is still technically raw.

>>>>many less people would feel a need to use alcohol, imo.


>>>Drugs can be made raw.

same as above

>>>Wild vegetarian animals eating a raw diet still kill each other, and so can humans.

the difference is the REASON for the killing and the amount of it

>>>Look at how many people have died from fasting incorrectly and there were people overseeing that and are held karmically responsible for that. If the person responsible for some fasting deaths and fasting illnesses has been 100% raw for decades how can his "fallen" state be reconciled with his 100% raw purity. And rape is not unheard of in the 100% raw vegan community. Raw is not going to replace religion.

>>>>Money issues, rigid beliefs and sexual urges would remain but at a lesser volume


>>>> He has said it can be expensive (he got a $60 bill just for himself at a raw restaurant) and he has questioned high fat raw diets, but I never heard him slam raw outright.

a rather obtuse comment about the expense as nobody needs to go to the expensive raw restaurant.

Quote
fresh
nevertheless I'm sure that you would agree that pure raw food eating would solve a very high percentage of mental and physical problems in the world.

I'm not so sure Fresh. Aren't some 100% raw fooders aggressive in their behaviour towards others and easily get angry and attack others, certainly there is no evidence of the 100% raw vegan diet bringing on peaceful balanced loving minds. Some even go down hill mentally after a raw food diet, and these reports are not so unusual. And doesn't Brian Clement report few people getting well IF their attitude is not right. And what about the people who heal short term only to go down hill in the longer term?

Truth, l am a really genuine truth seeker, so l ask these incovenient questions. I also ask why the long lived people eat mainly cooked food and live longer and healthier than most of us.

The conclusion l have come to is that it is not all about food. I believe many things influence health, and food is only a small part, however if humans are on the borderline of health and not exercising,have poor outlook on life and live among ample EMF waves and heavy pollution then l think the diet issue can play a more significant role in health if they are buffered less by other healthy lifestyle factors. It is quite a tricky situation actually...too many variables can come into account to be able to say diet is always the key thing, and when we look at real world situations we know we can't conclude any such thing too strongly.Now...studies may conclude that diet is the key factor, but lets ask what variables have and haven't been measured before we read too much into these studies.

www.thesproutarian.com

HI John Rose,
That is the first time that I saw that article that JOhn McDougall wrote, which is dated 2002. The article is not fair because it's not showing the best raw diets available. Perhaps McDougall was not aware of them.

He is not all wrong. I have videos of Victoria Boutenko pouring oil into recipes and look how big she has been. There is a raw vegan restaurant close by to me but I can't eat there because they load their recipes with oil.
Look how Tavis Bradley seems to have an aversion for high amounts of fruit, so he uses more oil.
I have a raw friend who ate so much fruit in his youth that he refused to eat more than a little fruit in his raw diet. He had such a repulsion to fruit that he would prefer to get full on coconut oil, tahini, nuts, etc than eat fruit, in his attempt to be all raw. (and his health greatly suffered for that.)
I would see raw chefs and newbies again and again lean on oil as fillers. (If SueZ reads this, I want to say that I respect her for getting regular check ups and blood tests and to monitor her health and at least she is taking responsibility for her diet in that regard.)
I will never forget one woman who frequented a raw vegan potluck that I would attend and she had breast cancer. She went to Optimum health institute and did their program religiously (wheat grass juice, all raw, etc). The potlucks had no nutritional guidelines, so they tended to be higher in fat and oil. This woman's cancer continued to grow despite being all raw. So McDougall is not being mean for speaking about these topics.

John, I liked your latest video on evil. You expressed a lot of understanding and flexibility in the last two videos, so I am not going to say anything more. SOrry that you feel so frustrated that you had to raise your voice. I am not trying to stand against you. I actually appreciate your teachings on juice fasting.

I have met and know of several 100% raw vegans who have committed crimes and evil, so I will never believe that being fully raw is the salvation of humans, but I know that certain raw diets can be very healing.

Fresh, at least you delineated what you think is false what McDougall has said.

<<<I have met and know of several 100% raw vegans who have committed crimes and evil, so I will never believe that being fully raw is the salvation of humans, but I know that certain raw diets can be very healing.>>>

Raw Food is NOT a Panacea because it is only 1 of our 12 Essential Needs and our 12 Essential Needs are 1 of the 2 Groups of Needs we must Satisfy.

We can Individually get Re-Connected by Bumping Up our Biophotons and get rid of Hypo-Heliosis A, but as long as most people are Dis-Connected, all of us will still suffer from Hypo-Heliosis B.

Along with Detoxification comes De-Indoctrination. We can flush out the Serpent that lives within our Intestines and get Re-Connected, but we can still harbor Stupid Thoughts and do Stupid things because we still live in a Sick World. I still have a knee jerk reflex to “beat up the bad guy” as I’ve been programed to do from countless TV shows I watched growing up, but I have NEVER done so. However, I have been PROGRAMMED to think that way and so have most people, at least in America.

The point here is one that I have made over and over and over and that we cannot understand the Ultimate Solution until we do it and it won’t work unless all of us do it.

As I have mentioned many, many times, things will NEVER change unless we reach the Tipping Point and when we do reach the Tipping Point, I’m sure we’ll still have a residual effect left over from the Fall as a reminder to NEVER make this HUGE Mistake ever again!

There is no question about the fact that we are a living soul within a physical body.

The body is the vehicle.

But the soul or our spiritual being cannot operate our earth without a physical body.

They are interconnected.

They need each other.

A sound mind within a healthy body is the goal.

Things do not have to be either or. They need to be both.

The goal is to make two one.

The world has known people who were highly spiritual but many had poor health.

Many lived in monasteries with limited nourishment.

They did not live long.

Now is the time to have healthy saints.

Quote
The Sproutarian Man

Quote
fresh
nevertheless I'm sure that you would agree that pure raw food eating would solve a very high percentage of mental and physical problems in the world.

I'm not so sure Fresh. Aren't some 100% raw fooders aggressive in their behaviour towards others and easily get angry and attack others, certainly there is no evidence of the 100% raw vegan diet bringing on peaceful balanced loving minds. Some even go down hill mentally after a raw food diet, and these reports are not so unusual. And doesn't Brian Clement report few people getting well IF their attitude is not right. And what about the people who heal short term only to go down hill in the longer term?

Truth, l am a really genuine truth seeker, so l ask these incovenient questions. I also ask why the long lived people eat mainly cooked food and live longer and healthier than most of us.

The conclusion l have come to is that it is not all about food. I believe many things influence health, and food is only a small part, however if humans are on the borderline of health and not exercising,have poor outlook on life and live among ample EMF waves and heavy pollution then l think the diet issue can play a more significant role in health if they are buffered less by other healthy lifestyle factors. It is quite a tricky situation actually...too many variables can come into account to be able to say diet is always the key thing, and when we look at real world situations we know we can't conclude any such thing too strongly.Now...studies may conclude that diet is the key factor, but lets ask what variables have and haven't been measured before we read too much into these studies.

- never said it was all about food
- never said raw fooders were perfect
- my claim is that raw eating and/or veganism brings on extremely positive changes in people and diminishes violence and other bad acts.

just because you and Tai bring up bad acts that have occurred , that's not a negation of my point.

of course there are many other factors other than food.

feel free to state your positions instead of just bringing up negative exceptions.

do you believe that raw eating/veganism has a Negative effect, No effect, Positive effect OVERALL, in general, in the majority .

raw and vegan cause people to foster better connections with animals and the earth and be more peaceful in general imo.

arguing on the internet is not what I'm talking about here .

when i look up vegan murderers I find two. adam lanza who was on drugs and had a mother that was into guns, and volker van der graaf, who had an unhealthy attachment to his political views (and was cooked as well)

Quote
Tai
HI John Rose,
That is the first time that I saw that article that JOhn McDougall wrote, which is dated 2002. The article is not fair because it's not showing the best raw diets available. Perhaps McDougall was not aware of them.

He is not all wrong. I have videos of Victoria Boutenko pouring oil into recipes and look how big she has been. There is a raw vegan restaurant close by to me but I can't eat there because they load their recipes with oil.
Look how Tavis Bradley seems to have an aversion for high amounts of fruit, so he uses more oil.
I have a raw friend who ate so much fruit in his youth that he refused to eat more than a little fruit in his raw diet. He had such a repulsion to fruit that he would prefer to get full on coconut oil, tahini, nuts, etc than eat fruit, in his attempt to be all raw. (and his health greatly suffered for that.)
I would see raw chefs and newbies again and again lean on oil as fillers. (If SueZ reads this, I want to say that I respect her for getting regular check ups and blood tests and to monitor her health and at least she is taking responsibility for her diet in that regard.)
I will never forget one woman who frequented a raw vegan potluck that I would attend and she had breast cancer. She went to Optimum health institute and did their program religiously (wheat grass juice, all raw, etc). The potlucks had no nutritional guidelines, so they tended to be higher in fat and oil. This woman's cancer continued to grow despite being all raw. So McDougall is not being mean for speaking about these topics.

John, I liked your latest video on evil. You expressed a lot of understanding and flexibility in the last two videos, so I am not going to say anything more. SOrry that you feel so frustrated that you had to raise your voice. I am not trying to stand against you. I actually appreciate your teachings on juice fasting.

I have met and know of several 100% raw vegans who have committed crimes and evil, so I will never believe that being fully raw is the salvation of humans, but I know that certain raw diets can be very healing.

Fresh, at least you delineated what you think is false what McDougall has said.

just because raw eaters HAVE done certain things like eat unhealthy fatty diets and he makes a comment about it, does not mean that is the right way to go. he talks about the diet like this >>"raw eaters have to resort to X, and X doesn't work, or raw eaters have to resort to Y, and Y doesn't work, so there is no good way to do a raw diet."

denunciation without understanding.

I would have absolutely no problem with him promoting his diet if he actually understood the raw diet and felt his was more practical. I have much more appreciation for someone who says, the raw diet is clearly best but I do this because...

<<<Now is the time to have healthy saints.>>>

Hey RP,

I taped a Video this morning long before you and fresh posted and it just now finished uploading a few moments ago and I talked about the Saints on one end of the Bell Shape Curve as I've done before, but I really like what you said, it's "time to have healthy saints"!!!

<<<feel free to state your positions instead of just bringing up negative exceptions.>>>

Hey fresh, once again, a man with a good sense of logic!!!

Hey Tai, thanks for giving me so many ideas for my Videos and here's my Video I did this morning...

[www.youtube.com]
Cooked Food & Good People VS Raw Food & Bad People
22:52 Minute Video

Published on Jul 16, 2016
In this Video, John Rose takes a closer look at why some people can Eat Cooked Food and be Saints and why other people can Eat Raw Food and still do Bad things and why some don’t believe Raw Food is the Ultimate Solution because of the exceptions noted above.

Saints + Exceptions = Serendipity





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2016 08:39PM by John Rose.

John,
I heard your latest video about cooked and raw fooders.
At 18 minutes, you make a good point about emptying the colon to help detox the lymph system. I experienced that and it's a remarkable sensation and healing experience. Just as soon as my life settles down, I plan to help a lot of people with this and we will share stories.

So you were intentionally zinging us about McDougall to get a rise...

You are a far more reasonable man than you let on in print.

To Fresh, I understand your points.

Eating is not good for us. (There maybe a verse of it somewhere in the bible)

I joined a fasting forum some years ago and we had this diet called Liquidarianism and Intermittent dry fasting. Which calls for drinking juice or whatever you ate should become water by the time it reaches the stomach, like eating a watermelon or a tomato. Then we had to dry fast (no water) for 40 hours at least once a week. It was the best time of my life. But the good things do not last, I went back to my devilish life style.

Eating is not good for us.
The periods of famine in the village when I was growing up where actually the healthiest. Less food and the parents had to be creative in getting foods from new sources like cassava leaves that were considered low class in period of abundance.

Raw Practicalist wrote:
The periods of famine in the village when I was growing up where actually the healthiest. Less food and the parents had to be creative in getting foods from new sources like cassava leaves that were considered low class in period of abundance.

Tai:
I always wondered why cassava was grown and this article explains it:
[www.pyroenergen.com]
It says cassava can grow easily on non-fertile lands.
Cassava root cannot be eaten raw due to its cyanide content, which is true also for bamboo shoots:
[www.cfs.gov.hk]
As people are trying to picture a raw world, what could people grow in the place of cassava in Africa with difficult soil?
In this particular instance, McDougall is not being biased but just observant of reality.

nobody is saying not to grow cassava if that's all you can do.


JM

" Fruits – because they are high in simple sugars – should generally be limited to 3 servings a day as they’re tasty and easy to over-consume"

mcd did a good video on steve jobs

Cassava and Rice story in the village was really an indication of lack of wisdom from the villagers looking back.

The main foods were rice, plantains, and yams yet those require the villagers to destroy pristine forests every year to grow them and you have to pray that it will rain during that period for them to take roots. And sometimes it would not rain. And then the entire season of planting was lost.

Yet the cassava nobody wanted was growing tall and green everywhere around the village at every corner of the road leading to the rice farms. You did not have to plant it for it to grow. Just throw it away and it will take roots where it lands. And one plant will multiple into many plants in a short period.

The cassava tree was saying silently to the villagers "Now you ignore me but you will come back to me"

And that is what happened. The cassava roots were used in many ways in period of famine and the leaves in making sauce with some fish from the rivers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2016 09:10AM by RawPracticalist.

<<<As people are trying to picture a raw world, what could people grow in the place of cassava in Africa with difficult soil? In this particular instance, McDougall is not being biased but just observant of reality.>>>

Have you not heard of Gaddafi`s Great Man-Made River Project?

“Most people who constantly say, ‘Let’s be realistic,’ are really just living in fear, deadly afraid of being disappointed again. ...Great leaders are rarely “realistic”. They are intelligent, and they are accurate, but they are not realistic by other people’s standards. What is realistic for one person, though, is totally different from what is realistic for another person, based upon their references.” -Anthony Robbins, “ATGW” p. 81

Raw Practicalist:
The main foods were rice, plantains, and yams yet those require the villagers to destroy pristine forests every year to grow them

Tai:
Sounds tragic. What kind of trees were in the forests? Were they fruit trees? For sure, you can plant yams around trees, but not plantains. What do you think they should have done?