I made this Video especially for YOU GUYS or, at least, for most of y'all...

Why Most People Don’t Understand Nutrition
[www.youtube.com]
Published on Aug 7, 2017

Natural Hygiene Dietary Stance Today...

Vegan diets
Vegan diets are deficient, but it may take years before any deficiency symptoms are noticeable. For adults. Children can be damaged much more quickly.
In the beginning, a raw vegan diet can be very cleansing, especially if you came off a SAD (Standard American Diet). If you are a raw vegan and love it, then you can e.g. continue until you begin to feel some of the deficiency symptoms listed here. Or just add a tiny amount of eggs & dairy (raw and organic is best). Added fish gives a good health boost. A raw vegan diet with a few added animal products is an adequate (but not optimal) diet. How much? Eat a minimum of 2% of your diet as animal foods, preferably every day for maximum effect.
Vegans who have not replenished their stores of animal fats and proteins have often slowly gotten into trouble, sometimes first showing as bad moods and depression, sometimes as dry scalp & hair, sometimes loose teeth & receding gum-line. Serious lack of B12 has caused brain damage, pain and paralysis, so be careful.
(Supplements are a must if you are a true vegan, e.g. vitamin B12, D and omega-3. But of course, NH is not in favor of supplements - they can never mimick the real thing. A truly adequate diet is better.)

While it is true that Hitler's doctors put him on a vegetarian diet to cure him of flatulence and a chronic stomach disorder, his biographers such as Albert Speer, Robert Payne, John Toland, et al, have attested to his liking for ham sausages and other cured meats. Even Spencer says that Hitler was a vegetarian from only 1931 on: "It would be true to say that up to 1931, he preferred a vegetarian diet, but on some occasions would deviate from it." He committed suicide in the bunker when he was 56 in 1945; that would have given him 14 years as a vegetarian, but we have the testimony to the contrary of the woman chef who was his personal cook in Hamburg during the late 1930s - Dione Lucas. In her "Gourmet Cooking School Cookbook," she records that his favorite dish - the one that he customarily requested - was stuffed squab (pigeon). "I do not mean to spoil your appetite for stuffed squab, but you might be interested to know that it was a great favorite with Mr. Hitler, who dined in the hotel often."
Nunativs-bad moods and depression, , sometimes Serious lack of B12 has caused brain damage, pain and paralysis, so be careful
. Hilter diet included meat and still had thís problem suicide in the end
wás hís diet related t? his suicide or just the fact he knew he was a loser?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2017 05:17AM by riverhousebill.

Great video John
I was hesitant a first to watch it because of the title of your topic.
But you got it right.
Fruit is not the problem, digestive health is the key.
But how do you solve the issue of oxalic acid on extended green juice fasting?

John you emphasize the point repeatedly that we have a ""species specific natural diet" and yet in nature you cannot find the diet you recommend. There are no watermelons, no romaine lettuce, no tomatoes growing WILD anywhere.

Why did nature provide a diet in the landscape for every animal and bug, except human beings who seem to have to farm their "natural" diet...?

(Of course the Native Americans ate out of the landscape which included processing and the use of fire).

Nunativs.

How do apes survive without farms?

Without trucks of shipments, apes would die?

Do apes live where they cannot live?

If so, what could they eat?

Why won't you see watermelons growing in parking lots when there are vegans around?

Do you live in a tropical area where there are fruits all year round?

Well for one, apes have multiple stomachs like other herbivores and subsist on mostly fibrous greens.

My point is that staple raw vegan foods cannot exist in the WILD without fencing and pampering and artificial Life support. If they are so "natural" why dont they occur in nature?

If hu/womans tried to go out into nature and did not hunt and cook with fire, they would die plain and simple.

Many fruitarians have gone to the tropics and found they had to farm to get a decent food supply. Does this mean that WE are farmers by nature?

Nature and the WILD landscape seems to have forgotten about OUR species specific diet...

(J Rose always skirts around this point).

Humans are apes. You can learn more here:

[en.wikipedia.org]

Quote

The Hominidae, whose members are known as great apes[note 1] or hominids, are a taxonomic family of primates that includes seven extant species in four genera: Pongo, the Bornean and Sumatran orangutan; Gorilla, the eastern and western gorilla; Pan, the common chimpanzee and the bonobo; and Homo, which includes modern Humans and its extinct relatives (e.g., the Neanderthal), and ancestors, such as Homo erectus.[1]

....Well for one, apes have multiple stomachs like other herbivores and subsist on mostly fibrous greens.


Are you serious?
Colobines have sacculated stomachs similar to herbivores but chimps are almost same as us ONE stomach and chimps eat up to 94% fruit and they are apes last time I checked..

By the way our brains enlarged not due to nutritional impacts of eating fruit or meat, but due to the logistical requirements of acquiring same, first fruit then later animal foods.

I disagree with her statements regarding protein requirements but the rest of her article is well done with experimental backup.

[www.scientificamerican.com]


....My point is that staple raw vegan foods cannot exist in the WILD without fencing and pampering and artificial Life support. If they are so "natural" why dont they occur in nature?


Our ancestors as well as other primates thrived on virtually all plant matter including whatever fruit was available. We can do the same today with modified version of fruit.

.......if hu/womans tried to go out into nature and did not hunt and cook with fire, they would die plain and simple.

Depends on location!

Many fruitarians have gone to the tropics and found they had to farm to get a decent food supply. Does this mean that WE are farmers by nature?

Depends on location!

>Supplements are a must if you are a true vegan

and if you're not a vegan also

> e.g. vitamin B12,

yes

> D

NO

>and omega-3.

NO

Various types of dried green and purple lavers are Vitamin B12 sources: (1) a Japanese green laver, (Suji-aonori, Entromopha prolifera); (2) ordinary purple lavers (Porphyra sp.; nori, which has been formed into a sheet and dried); (3) Taiwan purple laver ...

Thanks fresh,

You are one of the few on this Message Board that have a Good Sense of Logic.

7 Generations In An Ideal World
[www.youtube.com]

Quote
fresh
>Supplements are a must if you are a true vegan

and if you're not a vegan also

> e.g. vitamin B12,

yes

> D

NO

>and omega-3.

NO

So the supplements are made from foods that cannot be eaten?

If raw food has failed us let's be frank and acknowledge it.

The long lived cultures did they take supplements?

I guess they did not have enough money to buy the expensive supplements
[from Amazon that did not exist then].

If local foods cannot sustain us then there is something wrong with nature.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2017 02:17PM by RawPracticalist.

Some key points from the International Natural Hygiene Society who has witnessed these diets for centuries now, and please notice that the longevity statistics of those who followed such regimes are poor at best. Paul Bragg observed the same in his day in his book "Healthful Eating Without Confusion".:

-But INHS does not recommend any vegan or fruitarian diet theories to the public. Why? Because there are too many question marks. Too many hygienists and others have died or become severely damaged using these diets for a long time. A short time is fine. But these diets are inadequate and must be supplemented (e.g. with B12 and omega-3). Dr. Shelton himself was a lacto-vegetarian (used clabbered milk), as was Dr. Esser (used goat milk), even though they preferred and promoted a diet without animal foods. The vegan and fruitarian diets can truly be called idealistic diets, not realistic diets.

-Vegan diets are deficient, but it may take years before any deficiency symptoms are noticeable. For adults. Children can be damaged much more quickly.
In the beginning, a raw vegan diet can be very cleansing, especially if you came off a SAD (Standard American Diet). If you are a raw vegan and love it, then you can e.g. continue until you begin to feel some of the deficiency symptoms listed here. Or just add a tiny amount of eggs & dairy (raw and organic is best). Added fish gives a good health boost. A raw vegan diet with a few added animal products is an adequate (but not optimal) diet. How much? Eat a minimum of 2% of your diet as animal foods, preferably every day for maximum effect.
Vegans who have not replenished their stores of animal fats and proteins have often slowly gotten into trouble, sometimes first showing as bad moods and depression, sometimes as dry scalp & hair, sometimes loose teeth & receding gum-line. Serious lack of B12 has caused brain damage, pain and paralysis, so be careful.
(Supplements are a must if you are a true vegan, e.g. vitamin B12, D and omega-3. But of course, NH is not in favor of supplements - they can never mimick the real thing. A truly adequate diet is better.)

-ABOUT DIET:
One of the prime considerations of the founders of INHS was the fact that the latest scientific research has shown serious flaws in the premise from which the earlier hygienists had taken their evidence, and based their practice. Over the years, many people had experienced serious adverse effects on the vegan diet and we felt it was important to address this. Research of people such as Dr Weston A. Price, adequately showed that healthy living was not necessarily based upon a 100% plant based diet. That in fact there could be, and was, a valid place for the use of animal products in the diet.
We would wish to emphasize the fact that nutrition is wholistic and involves all aspects of our lives, not only the foods we consume. Further we accept the part that ethics plays a part in our health. However, we would question the validity of ethics that supported a regimen which would have adverse effects on our well being.
Our prime concern is that if you choose to live as a vegan, we wish for you to be aware of these factors. The choice is yours. We respect it, welcome you as a member of this society and invite you to join in our discussions.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2017 04:09PM by NuNativs.

Quote
RawPracticalist

So the supplements are made from foods that cannot be eaten?

If raw food has failed us let's be frank and acknowledge it.

The long lived cultures did they take supplements?

I guess they did not have enough money to buy the expensive supplements
[from Amazon that did not exist then].

If local foods cannot sustain us then there is something wrong with nature.

I agree, it is UNHEALTHY NOT to knowledge it!

No, the long lived cultures did not take supplements and as I pointed out, in the book Primitive Man, they enjoyed far more robust health, vigor and LONGEVITY that makes modern health gurus pale in comparison.

There is nothing wrong with nature, the Native peoples ate out of nature for eons with superior health, yet they were not RAW nor VEGAN. Read the book "Tending the Wild" which illustrates how the California natives WILD farmed the state without tilling, ripping the soil, fencing or all the other barbaric practices that constitute modern "farming".

It is U.S. trying to impose OUR diet onto the landscape instead of taking what the landscape provides naturally. The use of FIRE was part of that equation, that's what sets U.S. apart form the animals...

Nunativs,
Let me settle this once and for all.
People like Lou corona, brian clement and annette larkins prove that a specialized vegan diet can slow down aging. Annette's husband was not only a meat eater for most of his life but also a butcher. Now look at them...he looks like her father. Her son finally saw the light and jumped on her train.
Lou isn't perfect but he is definitely younger than his age and he hasn't taken a lot of herbs that could fill in the holes for him.
Brian Clements brother is aged and is a meat eater.
These vegans live in a climate conducive to eating ideal plant food and have enough money to get the freshest foods.
Years after lou corona went vegan but before he took supplements, he got his b12 tested along with many vegans, as a study on vegans was being done.
He was one of the few vegans who tested normal for b12.
What's so special about lou?
He healed his body and made a
special point to eat healthy.
Nunativs, there are a bunch of ethical vegans that don't care about health and even smoke. They don't mind eating mediocre or even junk food.
Lou and annette are both humble and willing to listen and learn from others too. Brian too.
Fullyrawkristina proved that high fruit is sustainable when you get the best.
We all have heard tragic stories of vegans suffering premature deaths or severe deficiencies. But equally so, we hear of meat eaters suffering premature deaths and diseases of excess. Look at cancer epidemic. Look at china study. Hence the saying, no brain, lots of pain.
The dumbest vegan deaths are from fasting.
I am an acupuncturist and i have some bright tcm teachers. One teacher who is a meat eater looks very young. Another amazing teacher, genius at pulse, is overweight and aged prematurely and is a meat eater. Both are meat eaters but huge discrepancy. The man probably doesn't take care of himself. Some healers are like that. The woman does.
I have another teacher who was born in alaska and was raised eating meat. He became a monk and lived in india. He was veggie for years and even went fruitarian. He quit monk life and got married and resumed meat diet and lives in Washington. He takes care of himself, takes daily herbs, and is generally healthy, although suffers from congestion when i see him.
I had another teacher who was one of the best acupuncturists, and of course a meat eater. He died from rectal cancer recently. His downfall was alcohol. I feel so robbed by his premature death. There were so many of us who didnt finish our classes with him.
I could write more, but i think i proved my point that people like lou corona and annette larkins are smarter and healthier.
I have another chinese herbal teacher who is 70 but she looks 50 at most. She is a total omnivore. I once visited her clinic and for lunch she ate chicken feet and offered me some. Of course i shook my head. She can cure some small cancers but not all and not like richard schulze.
Chicken feet for collagen?
It was like she was a different species from me. I would never put that in my mouth.
Recently i met an omnivore holistic dentist who is going to monitor me as i experiment with a vegan version of his protocol at healing teeth.

I talked to the raw vegan Australian couple who ran across their country in their old age. The man's b12 was low after the marathon and he then ate a lot of leafy greens (organic from very rich soil teeming with bacteria.) He retested his b12 and it raised up with no added b12!!! Score one for Doug graham, as he inspired them, i think.

Quote
NuNativs

Quote
RawPracticalist

So the supplements are made from foods that cannot be eaten?

If raw food has failed us let's be frank and acknowledge it.

The long lived cultures did they take supplements?

I guess they did not have enough money to buy the expensive supplements
[from Amazon that did not exist then].

If local foods cannot sustain us then there is something wrong with nature.

I agree, it is UNHEALTHY NOT to knowledge it!

No, the long lived cultures did not take supplements and as I pointed out, in the book Primitive Man, they enjoyed far more robust health, vigor and LONGEVITY that makes modern health gurus pale in comparison.

There is nothing wrong with nature, the Native peoples ate out of nature for eons with superior health, yet they were not RAW nor VEGAN. Read the book "Tending the Wild" which illustrates how the California natives WILD farmed the state without tilling, ripping the soil, fencing or all the other barbaric practices that constitute modern "farming".

It is U.S. trying to impose OUR diet onto the landscape instead of taking what the landscape provides naturally. The use of FIRE was part of that equation, that's what sets U.S. apart form the animals...

you should be eating cooked and non vegan then.

if you are not eating cooked and vegan, then do you not believe your own conclusions that you repeatedly assert?

fresh wrote:

Quote

>Supplements are a must if you are a true vegan

and if you're not a vegan also

That is what you wrote.
I can understand that vegan has to supplement (food is washed, no soil...).
And vegan like Fullyrawkristina do it very well.
But why would non vegan need to supplement?
You are not a non vegan but wrote that it is necessary.
Veganism is commendable choice but some are high raw without being vegan.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2017 01:17AM by RawPracticalist.

Quote
RawPracticalist
fresh wrote:

Quote

>Supplements are a must if you are a true vegan

and if you're not a vegan also

That is what you wrote.
I can understand that vegan has to supplement (food is washed, no soil...).
And vegan like Fullyrawkristina do it very well.
But why would non vegan need to supplement?
You are not a non vegan but wrote that it is necessary.
Veganism is commendable choice but some are high raw without being vegan.

you're right. let me rephrase it.

-supplement MAY BE necessary when not vegan
-including some animal foods does not insure getting all nutrients

it's difficult to determine.

also excess is an issue given no attention.

Lets not forget that these diets are nothing new, fruitarianism, vegan, raw vegan, none of it. This all began in Germany in the 1800's and maybe sooner even before OUR beloved savior Hitler

It is chronicled in depth in the book "Children of the Sun", the roots of the movement until now.

Also note the longevity of the participants, pretty miserable and they were practicing at a time of very little pollution and pristine soil and food quality. Where are all the raw vegan centenarians, surely there should be some amazing longevity examples by now?

Contrast that with the numerous examples in the book "Primitive Man" and I ask you, what is health?

I think there is a bias towards "primitive" peoples that they had short lives, disgusting diets and were not spiritual. Yet if anyone looks into the Native Americans for example, they put our so-called spirituality to shame, at least they were grounded into "reality, i.e., the EARTH (Sun/Light, Air, Water & Earth)., not some mythical "heaven" and other imaginary realms! I'm sure their bio-photon levels were bursting at the seams despite the dreaded "cooked food".

Let's not forget, "For they count a man dies young, if he does not live above 100 years". On that account, health nutz are not faring so well...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2017 03:26AM by NuNativs.

you're not making any sense.

which makes sense from someone who claims apes have multiple stomachs

1. you have verified proof of these long lived people from your "primitive" book?
2. you realize the miniscule sample of "raw vegans" to select from?

apparently not

Quote
NuNativs
Lets not forget that these diets are nothing new, fruitarianism, vegan, raw vegan, none of it. This all began in Germany in the 1800's and maybe sooner even before OUR beloved savior Hitler

It is chronicled in depth in the book "Children of the Sun", the roots of the movement until now.

Also note the longevity of the participants, pretty miserable and they were practicing at a time of very little pollution and pristine soil and food quality. Where are all the raw vegan centenarians, surely there should be some amazing longevity examples by now?

Contrast that with the numerous examples in the book "Primitive Man" and I ask you, what is health?

I think there is a bias towards "primitive" peoples that they had short lives, disgusting diets and were not spiritual. Yet if anyone looks into the Native Americans for example, they put our so-called spirituality to shame, at least they were grounded into "reality, i.e., the EARTH (Sun/Light, Air, Water & Earth)., not some mythical "heaven" and other imaginary realms! I'm sure their bio-photon levels were bursting at the seams despite the dreaded "cooked food".

Let's not forget, "For they count a man dies young, if he does not live above 100 years". On that account, health nutz are not faring so well...

I was referring to gorillas having multiple stomachs like other herbivores who vegans like to compare themselves to, sorry.

I believe the accounts of the explorers and settlers as they parallel all the modern accounts I have found that go against politically correct nutritional theory. Like the guy who is living on skunk and fox meat and WILD quinoa who is living far longer than imaginable like the accounts in "Primitive Man".

There are plenty of examples of raw vegans and fruitarians for centuries now. Paul Bragg noted the same thing in his book "healthful Eating Without Confusion". I'm paraphrasing, he witnessed:

"The fruitarians had the shortest lifespan.
Raw vegans were next.
Mixed cooked food eaters after that.
Health conscious omnivores had the longest lifespan.

Pretty much parallels my own experience.

INHS: Because there are too many question marks.

I notice you are avoiding the data they have collected and witnessed.

"Let Us Have the Truth Though The Heavens Fall" Shelton



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2017 04:07AM by NuNativs.

Quote
NuNativs
I was referring to gorillas having multiple stomachs like other herbivores who vegans like to compare themselves to, sorry.

I believe the accounts of the explorers and settlers as they parallel all the modern accounts I have found that go against politically correct nutritional theory. Like the guy who is living on skunk and fox meat and WILD quinoa who is living far longer than imaginable like the accounts in "Primitive Man".

There are plenty of examples of raw vegans and fruitarians for centuries now. Paul Bragg noted the same thing in his book "healthful Eating Without Confusion". I'm paraphrasing, he witnessed:

"The fruitarians had the shortest lifespan.
Raw vegans were next.
Mixed cooked food eaters after that.
Health conscious omnivores had the longest lifespan.

Pretty much parallels my own experience.

INHS: Because there are too many question marks.

I notice you are avoiding the data they have collected and witnessed.

"Let Us Have the Truth Though The Heavens Fall" Shelton

1. show the data
2. as i said, we should take in all the information from all angles, then make our decision on diet. seems to me based on your beliefs that you should be eating animal foods and cooked foods. so WHY aren't you doing that? or are you?
3. gorillas are monogastic. like humans. one stomach. gorillas will eat large amounts of fruit when it is available. or other plant parts when fruit is scarce. ruminants have multiple stomachs
4. reported ages are often exaggerated. even when they say , "records show"
and other factors play into longevity. is longevity your only goal?
5. i will still eat the way i do now, based on ALL factors. even if your assertions are true, that somehow raw vegan is anti-longevity, I am not changing my diet if there is some other effect, like lower energy that is negative aspect, especially since it's guesswork.

see here for more

[www.torontozoo.com]

If you don't desire Longevity, something is wrong. Go hug a 1000+ year old tree and fell the Truth of that...

Hotema: "The Great Law"

"We do not attempt to account for what we term Eternal
Intelligence; but we assert that man is more than a mass
of Matter, that reacts "to a natural impulse, which is the
dread of the infirmities of age and the horror of death.

The infinite Intelligence responsible for all phenomena,
did not labor long and unlawfully, for no other purpose
than to bring man into existence for a few short years,
torture and torment him all his days with "the dread of
the infirmities of age and the horror of death," then cast
him into the pit of oblivion, and there end it all.

From the standpoint of reason, it would be a strange
Intelligence, which works so wonderfully and so perfectly,
and which never errs, that would organize Matter into the
form of man, animate that form with the "Breath of
Life," allow that form to roam the earth for a few short
years, and fill those years with "the dread of the infirmities
of age and the horror of death."

It is not the "horror of death" that urges man on in his
search for ways and means to live a fuller life. It is the
spirit of Perpetual Youth.

"The immortality of man," says Emerson, "is as legitimately
preached from the intellections as from the moral
volitions."

The perpetuality of youth is as legitimately preached
from the intellections as from the moral volitions. The
struggle for perpetual youth arises from the impelling
power of Eternal Intelligence, and not from individual intelligence.

The thought of Perpetual Youth comes to man without
effort. He may struggle against it, and try to drive it
from him, but it will not down. The books he reads, the
sermons he hears, the lessons he learns, bring him but one
thought--Perpetual Youth and how to gain it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2017 05:42AM by NuNativs.

>>>If you don't desire Longevity, something is wrong. Go hug a 1000+ year old tree and fell the Truth of that...

I never said that.

my point is that inactivity can likely lead to longevity.

so would you become inactive for more longevity?

there are many other potential trade-offs and it is to one's detriment to focus solely on longevity, especially when much is out of our control and we really don't know for sure what leads to longevity.

except that blue zones diet, which is similar to our diets here is conducive. these are not single anecdotes like what you provide, but population studies.

Nunativs, i know many people who would have died of cancer but were cured on vegan diet (plus vegan herbs and natural healing methods).
You are not addressing the whole picture and the china study does.

Quote
Tai
Nunativs, i know many people who would have died of cancer but were cured on vegan diet (plus vegan herbs and natural healing methods).
You are not addressing the whole picture and the china study does.

Nah, he wants to see thousands of raw vegans living to 150 otherwise the diet is invalid

I'll take many over 100+. Mind you, these are people who are CONSCIOUSLY choosing to upgrade their diet and health so one would expect the results to reflect what the "healthiest diet in the world" conveys, no?

On a grim note, have you seen this video? I don't advocate his diet whatsoever, and using Sally Fallon as an example of health is a bit lame, but Tim Van Orden & Viktoras are a bit scary...

Vegans: The Epitome of Malnourishment

Nunativs,
you totally ignored my example of Dr. Ellsworth wareham, the heart surgeon who went vegan and was still working at age 95.

nowadays, cats live on synthetic taurine. so vegans might have to take a few supplements, yet some lucky vegans can get all their nutrients from nature, as shown by the examples I gave in a previous post.

Look at Max Gerson's daughter Charlotte. She was vegetarian since childhood or birth. When she had a hip fracture, she healed very quickly. She had a great life. She wasn't vegan, but had low fat milk a little here and there.

Look at Dr. Lorraine Day who faced terrible cancer and knocked it with a vegan diet.

Wake up, man. Those raw meaters have you under a spell. They hide the stories of people getting violently sick from pathogens.

The truth is that ignorant people, whether vegan or omnivore, will hurt their bodies. I saw Lorraine Day the year before and she looked really good for age 80. She stood up straight and had a strong and clear brain. I was impressed, considering that when she had breast cancer as a meat eater, she also had parkinson's disease and to hear her have such good brain power was really a testament to her healing long term. She's smart and she takes care of herself.

and even if you felt very strongly not to be vegan your entire life, you should, for your own sake, learn how to be a healthy vegan during times of sickness. this board helps to troubleshoot and fine tune issues.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2017 09:07PM by Tai.

Quote
NuNativs
I'll take many over 100+. Mind you, these are people who are CONSCIOUSLY choosing to upgrade their diet and health so one would expect the results to reflect what the "healthiest diet in the world" conveys, no?

On a grim note, have you seen this video? I don't advocate his diet whatsoever, and using Sally Fallon as an example of health is a bit lame, but Tim Van Orden & Viktoras are a bit scary...

Vegans: The Epitome of Malnourishment

Why don't you answer the question?

Why aren't you eating all cooked. And meat?

Why aren't you eating a diet like your longest lived examples?

You're a nitpicking naysayer who doesn't follow his own advice.