I'm not giving advice, I'm bring up anomalies and concerns that don't follow the expected politically correct party line.

Like for instance I just found out about Jacqueline Graff July 10, 1945 - December 7, 2015, Gideon Graff's wife. What happened there, 70 years YOUNG, long time raw foodist and educator?

Oh, she got cancer after eating and cleansing all those years. Hmmmmmmm.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2017 12:55AM by NuNativs.

follow the expected politically correct party line.

Nunatives, I have to agree, I posted on Inuit native diet meat seal whale and first response was John rose saying how they have short life span, that is true today with all junk foods they now consume, But in past they lived very long lives.
second response was I thought this was a raw food vegan site. Like we should not talk about this Inuit diet. You would think adults could talk freely on any subject, but fads and preferance come into play.
Ive been veagan for many decades and the thought of eating meat fish makes me sick, but to not be able to discuse be cause of a preferd diet is bogus.
I know many veagans and many meat eaters who have lived long and short lives.
I still think its what you dont eat most important.

[www.thedailymash.co.uk]

Nunativs, for the third time why are you not following the diets of these alleged long lived people!!!

The environment has changed and some on the raw food especially some vegans do not listen to what science has to say. Some make the move to rawfood as a religious move and do not listen to reason.

Vegetables are washed, frozen, packed thus they do not have all of the soil and micro organisms that come with a diet in the wild. Very few can produce B12 internally so if you are vegan you have to supplement (some would say even if you are not).

It is not correct to say that the cow is eating only grass, with the wild grass come other living organisms, insects, and bugs.

So it is does not matter how nutritious the juice was or the fruit smoothies was, you need additional nutrients to cover all requirements.

So the problem is not the raw food, it is the lack of understanding of the nutrient requirements of the body otherwise many have been cured by going into raw food. And in the next 30 or 50 years people like Brian Clement, Lou Corona, Gabriel Cousens will reach old age even past the 100 still looking very young because they understand what is missing in the raw food because of our modern life style.

So there is no debate on what raw food can do.

For me the big issue is on what can be done and added to raw food to make it more appealing to the general public so that people can stop eating food that is detrimental to their health, then we will see that health care is not so expensive after all and the US Congress can tackle other issues.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2017 02:30AM by RawPracticalist.

That was truly hilarious fresh...

Quote
NuNativs
That was truly hilarious fresh...

I know that one cracked me up

[youtu.be]

I've been to Lou Coronas site. He seems to have umpteen bottles of powders, supplements, probiotics, etc. that he takes on a daily basis. Most people couldn't afford to take all those, or wouldn't want to, so he doesn't seem to me to be a good example to point to. It seems more long term raw foodists are taking more packaged and bottled supplements, powders, etc. which aren't really raw, so they seem to be acknowledging that the modern raw food diet of only fruits, vegetables, greens, etc. are not enough after realistically seeing the results from the past - hence they have started adding extras. Whether that will help them in the long term only time will tell ( even Fullyraw Kristina takes her powdered greens etc despite having access to unlimited organic produce ).

Most normal people in society who live long lives aren't extreme eaters, but are moderate eaters. They are able to do this because eating dense foods means you don't have to keep eating to be full or satisfied, so they can eat sparingly.

You are correct BJ

My problem with Brian Clement and other like him is that their raw food life style cannot easily be incorporated into the daily living of the general population.

The average family made of a school teacher and a staying home wife cannot afford to buy the expensive supplements of blue green algae and seaweed. Families want food they can enjoy at the dinner table not powders. And powders are not delicious to growing children.

And the dilemma is that for most raw food eaters some form of animal products is not acceptable (even if it is raw milk) yet nature seems to prove that it may be a requirement. There lies the challenge.

We have seen the Alicia Cohen, the Tonya Zavasta champion raw meal that look like normal average cooked meal but you need so many ingredients and patience to make those delicious looking raw cakes and raw pizzas and yet they still fall short of the what the body needs in the long run.

I guess the only consistent person on the raw food movement is Doug Graham.
Doug Graham on supplements [www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2017 11:20AM by RawPracticalist.

I would say the dilemma for raw food eaters would be none organic grown foods nutritionally-deficient foods are all foods not grown organic.
The minerals and vitamins are not there period. so if you are eating chemically grown foods you will be lacking what your body realy needs.
All the expensive supplements wont mean a thing.

>even Fullyraw Kristina takes her powdered greens etc despite having access to unlimited organic produce

As BJ mentionned even Fullyraw Kristina takes supplements.

Organic is not enough you need other supplements like B12 and she does take B12

[www.youtube.com]

Well D Graham has lost teeth and has aged pretty horribly in my opinion, so bad example...

Quote
NuNativs
Well D Graham has lost teeth and has aged pretty horribly in my opinion, so bad example...

You are correct but what I like about him is that he is consistent
in his belief and diet. Fruits and some greens and nothing else.

This is a great time for raw food.

In one camp we have those who supplement like Clement and Corona
and in the other we have those who do not like Graham.

With time we will know for sure who is right.

We already know for sure that an all cooked and fried food diet does not work.
You can check the records: cancer, obesity, heart disease, kidney failure, and the list goes on



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2017 04:18PM by RawPracticalist.

[www.youtube.com]

Nunativs' video link does not disprove the sustainability of veganism. Why didn't he show the shaolin martial monks who are vegan and who would put his physique to shame?
Why doesn't he show lou corona and just show Doug graham. Why show kulvinskas but not show brian clement who obviously didn't follow kulvinskas.
Brian and anji of happy healthy vegan are into tasty vegan food, not in to anti-aging food, so bad example and doesn't count at all, nor do unhealthy ethical vegans who ignore their health.
Tim van orden should have gotten all his nutrients checked when his teeth holes were still small. He could have turned it around.
John rose can improve but that was unfair considering John's age and health history before raw vegan. John has a nice spine/posture compared to brian clement.

That video was ridiculous

>Why didn't he show the shaolin martial monks who are vegan and who would put his physique to shame?

It is interesting to read about their diet. Mostly cooked carbs, beans, rice. No fruit.

Quote

Beans for Breakfast
According to Sifu Wang Bo, a Shaolin monk who has lived within the Shaolin Temple since the age of 8, the monks' daily breakfast consists of a soup known as Eight Treasures. The soup contains eight different types of beans, grains and nuts: red beans, pine nuts, walnuts, peanuts, rice, hawthorns, Chinese red dates and millet. These ingredients are cooked in plain water. The monks believe eating the soup daily contributes to longevity and organ health.

Produce-Heavy Lunch

Lunch at the Shaolin temple is served at 11:30 a.m. and consists of tofu and rice paired with a mixture of five or six different types of raw or cooked vegetables. The monks do not use garlic, ginger, onions or any type of spice when preparing their meals, believing that spicy, hot or strong-smelling foods excite emotion. Water and tea is not served with meals in order to improve digestion, says Bo. If you are trying to replicate a Shaolin-style lunch at home, choose brown rice for additional fiber and avoid deep-frying the vegetables and tofu in favor of steaming or stir-frying with minimal oil.

[www.livestrong.com]

Buddhism teaches that it's best to refrain from eating the five pungent spices. There are two reasons for this: when you're chanting sutras or when you're receiving guests, it is impolite and disrespectful if your breath smells bad. The other reason is that they arouse anger when eaten raw; when eaten raw before they're cooked, they make you irritable and ill-tempered. When eaten cooked, they arouse your passions; when you eat them cooked, they arouse your sexual desire and stimulate your sex drive.



Why do some Buddhists exclude the five pungent vegetables from their diet?
Some Buddhists who follow a strict diet not eat the five pungent vegetables: onions, garlic, chives, green onions and leeks. The Buddha said that these adversely affect those who are in the early stages of cultivation. If eaten cooked, they produce hormones. Eaten raw, they may affect the liver, leading one to become irritable and less able to concentrate. Please understand that this only happens if you eat them in large quantities. There is no problem if a moderate amount is used for cooking.


The same applies for alcohol and intoxicants. Intoxication can be a factor in causing erroneous behavior. The Buddha warned people against alcohol or intoxicants to guide them in the avoidance of committing misdeeds due to intoxication. Therefore, the precepts that the Buddha set forth really depend upon the environment and the situation that we are in.



Our society is different from that of Buddha Shakyamuni's. If he were to re-appear in this world, I am sure the Buddha would encourage the use of garlic, simply because it ca be used to cure some diseases, especially lung disease.


Many years ago, I was teaching at the Eastern Buddhist College. During that period, we found out that a few of the students had lung diseases. Dr. Tang, who was one of the professors, suggested that they use garlic for treatment. He told us of an event that had happened in China some time ago. A patient was told by his doctor that due to his end stage of TB, he only had three months to live. The patient?s family was also told to let him have anything he asked for, with one condition: that he lived apart from his family. His family, therefore, built a room for him to live in a vegetable garden and delivered meals to him everyday.



In that garden, grew a large amount of garlic. Due to his isolation and boredom, he tried the garlic raw and discovered that he enjoyed the taste of it. Soon the garlic became more of a snack for him. Three months later, he was still alive, and months after that, he was becoming healthier and healthier. His family found it strange and thinking there had been a misdiagnosis, took him back to the hospital.



The doctor was astonished at what he saw and immediately gathered a group of specialists to investigate his patient?s case. Finally, they found out it was the garlic that cured the disease! From then on, many medicines for lung disease have been made with garlic. Regretfully, when Dr. Tang suggested that those students use garlic for treatment, his suggestion was not accepted. The students did not want to violate the precepts even though their illness was contagious. Therefore, precepts have to be flexible and to consider environmental conditions. Nowadays, almost everything we eat, such as meat, fish, and even vegetables, contains either chemicals or preservatives, which are harmful to us. In addition, we are seeing more and more people with diseases that have not previously existed.



Even the taste of meat is different now. Years ago, chicks and piglets were raised in the open, so they were happier and that affected the taste of the meat. Now animals are raised in a narrow space with no place to move. Do you think they are happy? I heard that in Taiwan, the piglets are injected with chemicals so they grow more quickly. Their life span is only six months and the chickens only live for six weeks! Even vegetables and grains are no exceptions to being contaminated. How could we not get sick?



Therefore, garlic is good for us, although it is harmful to our eyes when taken in large quantities.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2017 01:04AM by riverhousebill.

How do we really know what Doug Graham really eats? His ethical behaviour is very questionable. When he ran the VegSource board he deleted uncomplimentary posts but denied doing it blaming the owners of the board, after which he was booted off when he was found to be deleting them but blaming the owners of the board.

Also, his lack of duty of care at his fasting resort and all the lies and obfuscations with regards to Leahs critical situation is well known, and left a lot to the desired. Unless someone followed him around for a month or two observing him day and night I don't believe I would trust that even he is able to follow his own diet.

Having said that, in one of his videos he shows a typical lunch for himself - wolfing down a dozen bananas. How normal is that, and how many people have the ability to wolf down a dozen bananas in one sitting? In nature animals eat slowly and graze. They don't wolf down a dozen bananas because they have to go back to work. They eat slowly and pace themselves and would probably eat the equivalent over a few hours.

The fact that a few individuals with great genetics, great metabolism and cast iron stomachs and constitutions are able to go to extremes with their eating is no proof that it will work for others. It's one thing to point to the odd individual here and there who is succeeding, but at the same time ignoring all the people who have issues with these so called optimum diets that is based on peoples personal preferences.

I think Graham is walking his talk and suffering because of it. I can't imagine the pressure of being a health guru though, claiming your diet and lifestyle is the secret to health, youth and longevity. It's as bad as being an actor, as one wrinkle can ruin your career, and Doug is well, shriveled...

Viktoras made a quote in Survival something to the effect of: " There are many diet theories and the authors of such will eventually die disproving or showing the validity of such program or something like that. (Like Atkins).

But there are numerous examples in the vegan camp now, like Jameth Sheridan, Jacky Graff (who noone commented on), Youkta Kulvinskas, Andreas Moritz, Morris Krok (who's writing I devoured till he got cancer).

John Rose is the most interesting example to me in modern times who is still alive. He looks well, has good body symmetry, raises interesting points, yet he hates me because I question things and has banned me from commenting on his channel, won't interact with me her except to attack unfortunately restricting investigation and truth seeking...

I am right behind him in age so it will be interesting to see him live into his latter years though I am no purist and have no desire to be so hopefully outLive him no disrespect...

Cousens looks OK but talks spacey and exaggerates about his physicality, Vik is a mess, Clements is big and doughy, D Wolfe is eating cooked yams and dairy products and who knows what else which I find shocking being in the raw scene epicenter for so long, Dan the Man is fasting his Life away and can't handle anything, Lou Corona looks decent but descends into jesus speak and does his cry routine to sell products, Paul Nisson aged quickly and believes in clothing and never being naked as well as a devote christian, I have forgot many others I follow but thats a ramble off the top of the head...

Here he talks about his diet.
[www.youtube.com]

Very simple.

A lot of bananas
Lettuce
Celery
Mangoes
Tomatoes

Maybe we are making things harder on ourselves
And bananas are very cheap, lettuce too



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2017 04:56AM by RawPracticalist.

I couldn't find anything on jackie graff...

[www.youtube.com]

lives in costa rica and is late 50's i believe

[www.youtube.com]

RP:
I can't even look at Graham he looks horrible to me...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2017 05:41AM by NuNativs.

Quote
fresh
[www.youtube.com]

lives in costa rica and is late 50's i believe

Been watching Jack, though raw vegan for 5+ years or so. Major alcoholic to the extreme for many years though previous, don't know how he made the conversion, inspiring story...

Quote
fresh
[www.youtube.com]

Chris is cool but 20s so....More interested in the elders who have gone the distance. Speaking of which those who turned vegan after 50 are kinda cheating...

BTW fresh how young are you?

Quote
NuNativs
BTW fresh how young are you?

maybe we can post age and how long people have been on raw vegan type diets even if not 100%.

then I will come back in 20 years (can you imagine this board still existing 20 years from now?) and see if JR and nunativs are still kickin'...

i know there are a few here who are in 60's or 70's?

55 now...started 30 years ago.
(vegetarian/vegan starting 30 years ago and seriously raw about 16 years ago)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2017 06:12AM by fresh.

Quote
NuNativs
RP:
I can't even look at Graham he looks horrible to me...

Some look naturally very attractive but have cancer.

Hollywood has such cases of beauty fame and money and yet cancer with early death.

BJ wrote:
Most people couldn't afford to take all those, or wouldn't want to, so he doesn't seem to me to be a good example to point to.

Tai:
Yeah, but many of those items are on sale at health food stores or websites under different brands, so really those powders are available to all of various budgets. His brand is definitely more expensive, but he teaches the basic concepts of eating a certain way and taking certain types of supplements like enzymes and probiotics.
I kind of lost interest in using enzymes to the degree that westerners have when many of the people I helped fared much better on digestive herbal formulas and didn't get much digestive help with digestive enzymes. Still the point of digestive enzymes is to spare the body having to produce more of its own, regardless whether the enzymes can fix a person's digestive troubles. Systemic enzymes have been proven to help with a variety of problems including keloid scars over time.
Since when is healing free or "affordable"? It can be to some lucky ones who live in an area where healing vegetation grows for free. But to others, they have to buy it. If one is really poor, they can look for half off sales or buy wholesale.
At the end of the day at farmers market, some farmers can sometimes cut their prices in half, at least it's true in california where produce is abundant. I see some poor people take away the throwaway stuff for free from farmers when the produce is only slightly damaged.
Where there is a will, there is a way.

BJ wrote
"The fact that a few individuals with great genetics, great metabolism and cast iron stomachs and constitutions are able to go to extremes with their eating is no proof that it will work for others. It's one thing to point to the odd individual here and there who is succeeding, but at the same time ignoring all the people who have issues with these so called optimum diets that is based on peoples personal preferences."

Tai
Lou Corona's method is extremely easy to digest, far easier to digest than the SAD diet or even the vegan whole foods diet. You don't need a cast iron stomach to do Lou's method, it's so the opposite. What you need though is TIME and organization, because a lot of this at done at home and you can't easily go to a restaurant. So, the lack of convenience is what makes Lou's way difficult.
As far as fruitarians go, fruit and tender greens are easy to digest, but the problem is TIME. Look at the amount of time it takes to chew through 2 pounds of greens a day. I have come up with a salad dressing that shrinks the greens, so they appear shriveled up like they have been cooked, so it's less to chew, but they haven't been heated at all.

John McDougall laid it out in the starch diet, that starch allowed humans to grow in civilization. With a small amount of food in the stomach, a person could carry on with their day without having to spend time foraging and chewing. Starch saves time. It gives energy with less expense. If anything, the starch diet is harder on the stomach. Look how many people shy away from legumes because of gas? So, to avoid gas, one has to sprout legumes for a couple of days to break down the complex carbs to avoid gas. But legumes are necessary for protein in the starch diet. Tempeh helped the indonesians acquire an important protein source. Fermenting is a way to make the legume more digestable.

Yet when it comes times for healing the body, raw vegetation is the way to go, but it's time consuming. If the food is hard on your stomach, it's incorrect.