Nunativs, I forget to mention Patrick Baboumian. He won the world record in yoke lifting for his size and he's vegan. He felt better after quitting dairy. He's about 5'7" and carried over 1200 pounds.

[www.youtube.com]

To Raw practicalist, yes, the shaolin diet is bland like that, but not so different from Patrick Baboumian, who combines legumes with grains, like beans and rice for the best amino acid ratio. he also eats peanuts and soy and vegan protein shakes.

....far as fruitarians go, fruit and tender greens are easy to digest, but the problem is TIME. Look at the amount of time it takes to chew through 2lbs
reens

1. It doesn't take that much time
2. Blenders

Tender greens only occur in WILD nature for a month or 2. You wouldn't be eating them daily, that's a product of farming. Hardly "natural"...

I'm 66 and was first introduced to ' healthier ' eating in 1972 ( 45 years ago ).

I moved from British Columbia, Canada to tropical Cairns in North Queensland, Australia to try eating a 100% fruit diet a la Ehret, hoping that it would solve all my worldly problems, but it didn't quite work out, but I'm still hanging in. I now live in Sydney Australia.

One of the good things about Australia is if you want to live in the tropics you don't have to go to a different country, just move up north to the tropics.

Quote
NuNativs
Tender greens only occur in WILD nature for a month or 2. You wouldn't be eating them daily, that's a product of farming. Hardly "natural"...

You talk about the Native Americans like they were only some meat eating hunters. That's selling them short.

[ivu.org]

Look how the Chocktaw indians ate primarily corn (heirloom non sweet), beans and squash and how farming was important. What's wrong with farming anyway? THe characteristic of a human being is tool use. Farming is a natural extension of tool use. Even if you can't own land, you can still farm. Even if natives migrated, they could still farm along the way.

The article says the Natives also had a garden of eden story. It's not like the Great Spirit didn't/doesn't care about creation and wouldn't show the native americans how to use and farm vegetation. Look how the Huichole indians were at one point the only legal people to harvest and use peyote in Mexico, because those Indians knew sustainable agriculture better than less reverent people.

I have grown the heirloom corn (blue-black, purple, brick red, etc) and it's so dense. You plant the rows of corn and then plant the beans to grow up the corn stalks and then plant the squash to grow through the corn. Good use of space.

Tender greens don't have to come in the form of lettuce. Look how moringa is a tender green that grows in harsh climates. Moringa is unusually nutritious and nothing has to die, because it's a tree and the seeds and leaves are harvested.

Succulents are another year round tender green like cactus and aloe.

Nunativs, you talk about natural, but it's kind of a joke. Without RVs, we would have to use horseback, which requires pet ownership.
Meanwhile, people have spotted UFOs from as far back as the Vedas, called vimanas. And Nikola Tesla already drew up plans for space ships, which may have been built. ANd on top of that, there is a huge ethics debate on human cloning. And you are still talking about natural. How are humans going to deal with living in a radioactive earth from all this crazy radiation from fukushima?

Is it natural for a human with a tender heart to go kill an animal, when there is other food at every grocery store and farmers market? Do you desire to have a catastrophe hit so bad that you will be forced to hunt? What misery.

In case the article is too long about Native americans and farming, I cut and paste the more important paragraphs, as they relate to Nunativ's notions about the hunter gatherer native americans:

[ivu.org]
It is ironic that Indians are strongly associated with hunting and fishing when, in fact, "nearly half of all the plant foods grown in the world today were first cultivated by the American Indians, and were unknown elsewhere until the discovery of the Americas." Can you imagine Italian food without tomato paste, Ireland without white potatoes, or Hungarian goulash without paprika? All these foods have Indian origins.

An incomplete list of other Indian foods given to the world includes bell peppers, red peppers, peanuts, cashews, sweet potatoes, avocados, passion fruit, zucchini, green beans, kidney beans, maple syrup, lima beans, cranberries, pecans, okra, chocolate, vanilla, sunflower seeds, pumpkin, cassava, walnuts, forty-seven varieties of berries, pineapple, and, of course, corn and popcorn.

Many history textbooks tell the story of Squanto, a Pawtuxent Indian who lived in the early 1600's. Squanto is famous for having saved the Pilgrims from starvation. He showed them how to gather wilderness foods and how to plant corn.

There have been thousands of Squantos since, even though their names are not so well-known. In fact modern day agriculture owes its heart and soul to Indian-taught methods of seed development, hybridization, planting, growing, irrigating, storing, utilizing and cooking. And the spirit of Squanto survives to this day. One example is a Peruvian government research station tucked away in a remote Amazon Indian village called Genaro Herrera. University trained botanists, agronomists and foresters work there, scientifically studying all the ways the local Indians grow and prepare food. They are also learning how to utilize forests without destroying them, and how to combat pests without chemicals.

The trend that moved some North American Indian tribes away from plant food-based diets can be traced to Coronado, a sixteenth century Spanish explorer. Prior to his time, hunting was a hobby among most Indians, not a vocation. The Apaches were one of the few tribes who relied heavily on animal killing for survival.

But all that changed as Coronado and his army traversed the West and Midwest from Mexico. Some of his horses got away and quickly multiplied on the grassy plains. Indians re-tamed this new denizen, and the Age of Buffalo began.

Horses replaced dogs as beasts of burden and offered excellent transportation. This was as important an innovation to the Plains Indians as the automobile would be to Anglos later on. Life on the Plains became much easier very quickly.

>From the east came another powerful influence: guns. The first American settlers brought their firearms with them. Because of the Indian "threat", they were soon immersed in weapons development and succeeded in making more accurate and powerful weapons. But they also supplied weapons to Indians who allied themselves with colonial causes. Because it was so much easier to kill an animal with a rifle than with a bow and arrow, guns spread quickly among the Indians. Between the horse and the rifle, buffalo killing was now much simpler.

The Apaches were joined by other tribes, such as the Sioux, Cheyenne, Arapahos, Comanches, and Kiowas. These tribes "lost the corn", gave up agriculture, and started living nomadic existences for the first time. It wasn't long before their food, clothing, and shelter were entirely dependent on one animal, the buffalo.

George Catlin lamented this fact as early as 1830. He predicted the extinction of the buffalo (which very nearly happened) and the danger of not being diversified. Catlin pointed out that, were the Plains Indians only killing a buffalo for their own use, the situation might not be so grave. But because the great beasts were being slaughtered for profit, they were destined to be wiped out.

It was the white man who profited. There was an insatiable Eastern market for buffalo tongue and buffalo robes. In 1832, Catlin described a wholesale buffalo slaughter carried out by six hundred Sioux on horseback. These men killed fourteen hundred animals, and then took only their tongues. These were traded to whites for a few gallons of whiskey. The whiskey, no doubt, helped to dull the Indian talent to make maximum use of an animal. Among the tribes who did not trade with whites, each animal was completely used, down to the hooves. No part went to waste. And buffalo were not killed in the winter, for the Indians lived on autumn dried meat during that time.

But now buffalo were killed in the winter most of all. It was in cold weather that their magnificent coats grew long and luxuriant. Catlin estimated that 200,000 buffalo were killed each year to make coats for people back East. The average hide netted the Indian hunter one pint of whiskey.

Had the Indians understood the concept of animal extinction, they may have ceased the slaughter. But to the Indians, the buffalo was a gift from the Great Spirit, a gift which would always keep coming. Decades after the disappearance of huge herds, Plains Indians still believed their return was imminent. They danced the Ghost Dance, designed to bring back the buffalo, and prayed for this miracle as late as 1890.

In spite of the ease and financial incentives of killing buffalo, there were tribes that did not abandon the old ways of the Plains. In addition to the farming tribes of the Southeast, tribes in the Midwest, Southwest, and Northwest stuck to agriculture. For example, the Osage, Pawnee, Arikaras, Mandans, Wichitas, and Caddoans remained in permanent farming settlements. Even surrounded by buffalo, they built their homes of timber and earth. And among some of the Indians of the Southwest, cotton, basketry, and pottery were preferred over animal-based substitutes like leather pouches.

Catlin was eerily accurate when he predicted dire consequences for the buffalo-dependent tribes. To this day, it is these Indians who have fared the worst from assimilation with other races. The Sioux of South Dakota, for one, have the worst poverty and one of the highest alcoholism rates in the country. Conversely, the tribes who depended little or not at all on animal exploitation for their survival, like the Cherokee, Choctaw, Creek, and Chickasaw, are thriving and growing, having assimilated without surrendering their culture.

In the past, and in more than a few tribes, meat-eating was a rare activity, certainly not a daily event. Since the introduction of European meat-eating customs, the introduction of the horse and the gun, and the proliferation of alcoholic beverages and white traders, a lot has changed. Relatively few Indians can claim to be vegetarians today.

But it was not always so. For most Native Americans of old, meat was not only not the food of choice, its consumption was not revered (as in modern times when Americans eat turkey on Thanksgiving as if it were a religious duty). There was nothing ceremonial about meat. It was a plant, tobacco, that was used most extensively during ceremonies and rites, and then only in moderation. Big celebrations such as Fall Festivals centered around the harvest, especially the gathering of the corn. The Choctaws are not the only ones who continue to dance the Corn Dance.

What would this country be like today if the ancient ways were still observed? I believe it is fair to say that the Indian respect for non-human life forms would have had a greater impact on American society. Corn, not turkey meat, might be the celebrated Thanksgiving Day dish. Fewer species would have become extinct, the environment would be healthier, and Indian and non-Indian Americans alike would be living longer and healthier lives. There might also be less sexism and racism, for many people believe that, as you treat your animals (the most defenseless), so you will treat your children, your women, and your minorities.

Without realizing it, the Indian warriors and hunters of ages past played right into the hands of the white men who coveted their lands and their buffalo. When the lands were taken from them, and the buffalo herds decimated, there was nothing to fall back on. But the Indians who chose the peaceful path and relied on diversity and the abundance of plants for their survival were able to save their lifestyles. Even after being moved to new lands they could hang on, re-plant, and go forward.

p.s do you know about the pet BULL buffalo who is very gentle with his owner? How sweet and loving.
[www.dailymail.co.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2017 10:42PM by Tai.

Thank you Tai.
Very useful and detailed info.