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Q&A with Dr Douglas N. Graham of The 80/10/10 Diet: Vitamin B12
Posted by: RawPracticalist ()
Date: August 18, 2017 09:41AM

Quote

What about vitamin B12?

Almost every health and nutritional professional in the world holds the notion that people must at least supplement their diets with a B12 source if they don’t eat meat. But the truth is, vitamin B12 deficiency is not limited to vegetarians and vegans; it is common among meat eaters as well, not because they don’t eat enough B12, but because they don’t properly produce and absorb it. Let me explain just a bit about how this all works.

As I see it, two primary vegan sources of natural vitamin B12 exist for humans, either of which, under ideal conditions, should be sufficient to provide the B12 to meet out needs:

1. Vitamin B12 is a waste product of a bacteria that can be found in and on the foods we eat (of both animal and plant origin).

2. B12 is also produced in the intestine and the mucosa of healthy humans.

An alleged but very unlikely third source of B12 may be unheated algae, spirulina, chlorella, and other creatures (which are not plants, by the way, and thus not to be considered vegan), and also raw seaweeds like nori, wakame, dulse, kombu, etc. Although these substances apparently do contain some human-active B12, they also contain significant amounts of noncobalamin analogs of B12, which actually interfere with the absorption of true B. The analog form of B12 register on test results, maswuerading as the human nutrient, but the body cannot use it. To compound the problem, analog B12 also occupies the body’s B12 update sites or “receptors,” thus lowering our ability to utilize true B12.

From a health and biological-design perspective, the question of whether the B12 in these foods ins the kind we need or an analog (of some of both) becomes irrelevant. Regardless of the answer, I do not recommend the consumption of sea life under any circumstances. Hunas are terrestiral creatures and as such our digestive capacities and nutritional requirements are adapted to the consumption of plants from the land. Aquatic plants and animals are not our natural food, nor does their nutritional makeup match out needs.

If you disagree, take yourself to the oceanside one day and collect some of your own fresh algae or seaweed. I think you will find these “foods,” as they appear unprocessed in nature, to be abhorrent in taste. Compare this reaction to the sensory thrill that you experience when you see, smell, and taste a perfectly ripe piece of fruit picked fresh from the tree. Your viscral response to these two scenarious should tell you unequivocally which of these items is food for humans.

That said, I return to the first two B12 sources mentioned above. If it is true that plant and animal foods can contain B12 and that we make it within our bodies as well, then how is it that we find vitamin B12 deficiency in humans? This is an extremely complex matter, bit I will discuss four reasons for this phenomon in a very simpified manner.
[wilddonna.com]

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Re: Q&A with Dr Douglas N. Graham of The 80/10/10 Diet: Vitamin B12
Posted by: Tai ()
Date: August 19, 2017 02:29PM

Interesting find, Raw Practicalist.

Now we can see why Doug Graham's followers have the conviction they do. I would like to know who taught Doug this or if it's just part of NH.

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Re: Q&A with Dr Douglas N. Graham of The 80/10/10 Diet: Vitamin B12
Posted by: RawPracticalist ()
Date: August 19, 2017 08:27PM

>I do not recommend the consumption of sea life under any circumstances. Hunas are terrestiral creatures and as such our digestive capacities and nutritional requirements are adapted to the consumption of plants from the land. Aquatic plants and animals are not our natural food, nor does their nutritional makeup match out needs.

>If you disagree, take yourself to the oceanside one day and collect some of your own fresh algae or seaweed. I think you will find these “foods,” as they appear unprocessed in nature, to be abhorrent in taste

That is what set Doug Graham apart from the others like Brian Clement.

And he is correct these foods are "abhorrent in taste" in their natural state.

Fruits and vegetables are our natural foods.

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Re: Q&A with Dr Douglas N. Graham of The 80/10/10 Diet: Vitamin B12
Posted by: NuNativs ()
Date: August 19, 2017 09:53PM

Vegetables don't naturally occur in nature how can they be our "natural" foods? WILD lettuce is horrible tasting and needs extensive processing and cooking and Graham eats a ton of the cultivated variety. Even if you plant lettuce and what not out in WILD nature, they will not survive and reproduce for the next year. I have witnessed tons of WILD planted fruits and nuts though...

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Re: Q&A with Dr Douglas N. Graham of The 80/10/10 Diet: Vitamin B12
Posted by: RawPracticalist ()
Date: August 19, 2017 10:30PM

Vegetables (dandelion, chickweed, wild onion, violets, wood sorrel, henbit, clover, ...) will naturally grow in your backyard if you do not cut the grass.

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Re: Q&A with Dr Douglas N. Graham of The 80/10/10 Diet: Vitamin B12
Posted by: BJ ()
Date: August 20, 2017 10:49PM

Tai, at one point Doug supplemented with B12 because he had symptoms of B12 deficiency, until things righted themselves. Relying on memory he blamed it on '' stress factors ''. I think he makes most of everything up as he goes along - as long as it works for him.

I used to follow his board with interest. He used to tell people to deliberately keep eating to stretch their stomachs so they can consume as much as he did. When people would write back that they have stretched their stomach and now they can't get satisfied, he wouldn't bother replying. Which normal healthy long lived person stretches their stomach beyond its normal capacity.

He used to decry eating things like garlic, seawwed, etc unless you could make a meal out of it in nature. I once posed the question, how many people would sit down to a meal of a head or two of celery. Imagine trying to make a meal of a head or two of celery, or just 3 plain heads of lettuce. Most of what he says doesn't have any basis.

How many people in cool climates would be able to make a meal of bananas when they don't even grow there? I don't believe anything he says. For him it's basically about $$$$'s now.

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Re: Q&A with Dr Douglas N. Graham of The 80/10/10 Diet: Vitamin B12
Posted by: Tai ()
Date: August 20, 2017 11:30PM

BJ, that's gruesome to hear. When he visited my area, yes he overcharged for consultations and didn't give much info or follow up advice for the $$$ people paid.

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Re: Q&A with Dr Douglas N. Graham of The 80/10/10 Diet: Vitamin B12
Posted by: BJ ()
Date: August 21, 2017 12:32AM

Tai, have you seen Leah Branster's video of her experience fasting with Doug Graham in Costa Rica and how she almost lost her life, and his lack of duty of care for her - you need to watch her video. If her mother hadn't flown in from Australia and removed her from Dougs lack of care, she was almost on the point of dying.

She was immediately taken to a nearby hospital, but before she left Doug told her to lie to the doctors and not tell them she had been on a long fast. When the doctors checked her out and found the condition she was in, they asked if she had been fasting, but she denied it at first to '' protect '' Doug. Doug even denied being aware of her pre-existing health conditions, but she had proof of all the forms she had to fill in detailing her health issues. After all this was exposed, Doug lost his forum on the Vegsource board, and was subsequently dis-invited from the Woodstock Fruit festival.

If you're going to be charging people thousands of dollars to fast for 25 days and they're healthy, it's one thing, but if you are going to long-fast people with pre-existing health conditions then you have a duty of care - it's not enough for people to come out and say, ' I fasted and I was ok '.

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Re: Q&A with Dr Douglas N. Graham of The 80/10/10 Diet: Vitamin B12
Posted by: fresh ()
Date: August 21, 2017 12:56AM

I was on that vegsource board and spoke up against doug and I notified someone from the WFF who then initiated his disinvitation....after i had supported him for many years.

didn't you support doug even past the point of when it had become obvious that he was unethical? or am i not remembering it correctly?

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Re: Q&A with Dr Douglas N. Graham of The 80/10/10 Diet: Vitamin B12
Posted by: BJ ()
Date: August 21, 2017 01:24AM

100% definitely not me. In fact, I was always getting attacked by others for questioning his 80/10/10 diet as the optimum diet, and it's medium to long term attrition rate and the fact it was based on his own body as opposed to empirical evidence.

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Re: Q&A with Dr Douglas N. Graham of The 80/10/10 Diet: Vitamin B12
Posted by: fresh ()
Date: August 21, 2017 01:26AM

ah yes that must have been paul

doug also injured and endangered people with his reckless calisthenics

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Re: Q&A with Dr Douglas N. Graham of The 80/10/10 Diet: Vitamin B12
Posted by: BJ ()
Date: August 21, 2017 01:30AM

Good on you for notifying WFF. Now that he's lost his board and the WFF I wonder how he's getting people to part with the 10 - 12K or more down in Costa Rica.

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Re: Q&A with Dr Douglas N. Graham of The 80/10/10 Diet: Vitamin B12
Posted by: riverhousebill ()
Date: August 21, 2017 03:47AM

Oral Contraceptives and Vitamin B12: Is There An Issue for Vegans?


By Ginny Messina|July 13th, 2011


Several readers asked me about an article that appeared on the Vegan Mainstream website linking oral contraceptive use to vitamin B12 deficiency. The writer, who was depending in part on greens and sea veggies for vitamin B12 (somebody bring me my smelling salts, please) ended up with a B12 deficiency. Unable to reverse the deficiency with supplements, she finally was able to bring her blood levels back up after a doctor advised her to discontinue using oral contraceptives.

I can’t comment on this particular situation, but I can comment on the conclusion made in the article that “a vegan on birth control is a recipe for B12 trouble.”

The research does suggest that oral contraceptive use is associated with lower blood levels of vitamin B12 in many women (the vast majority of whom are not vegan, of course.) And, in omnivores using oral contraceptives, taking B12 supplements often doesn’t raise blood levels of this vitamin. But blood levels of B12 are not always a good indicator of actual nutrient status. Levels can sometimes be high even when a person is, in fact, deficient. And, in the case of oral contraceptive users, it appears that low blood levels of B12 may not always translate to deficiency.

Better indicators of B12 status are blood levels of compounds that require vitamin B12 for their metabolism. In vitamin B12 deficiency, levels of two compounds—methylmalonic acid and homocysteine—are elevated. In the studies of oral contraceptive users, even when serum B12 levels are low, these other more important changes don’t seem to occur.

Researchers believe that the lower blood levels of B12 are related to a decrease in certain proteins that bind B12—but that this doesn’t affect the amount of B12 being delivered to tissues. So while blood levels are low, B12 status is often fine.

This may not be the final word on oral contraceptives and vitamin B12, but it’s where the research stands right now. In their discussion of factors affecting vitamin B12 requirements, the Food and Nutrition Board (the U.S. government group that establishes nutrient recommendations) doesn’t even mention oral contraceptives. Of course, this doesn’t mean it’s impossible to develop a B12 deficiency while using oral contraceptives. Anyone who experiences a drop in vitamin B12 levels should talk with their doctor to decide if further testing is warranted.

But, if there is an issue here at all, it’s not really a vegan one. Given her lack of knowledge about sources of vitamin B12, it’s reasonable to believe that the writer of the Vegan Mainstream article had a true B12 deficiency. But, the problem was inadequate information about how to meet vitamin B12 needs on a vegan diet. Even if oral contraceptives were shown to impact vitamin B12 status, this shouldn’t be any more of a problem for vegans who take appropriate supplements than for anyone else.

So no, it isn’t true that “a vegan on birth control is a recipe for B12 trouble.” It is true that a vegan who doesn’t take adequate supplements is a recipe for B12 trouble.

As a quick refresher, any of the following strategies should meet the vitamin B12 needs of vegan adults:
•Two servings per day of foods that are fortified with 1.5 or more micrograms of B12, OR
•25 micrograms or more of a chewable or sublingual B12 supplement every day, OR
•1,000 micrograms from a chewable or sub-lingual supplement twice per week.

Some references on oral contraceptive use and vitamin B12:

Shojania AM, Wylie B. The effect of oral contraceptives on vitamin B12 metabolism. Am J Obstet Gynecol 1979;135(1):129-34.

Gardyn J, Mittelman M, Zlotnik J, Sela BA, Cohen AM. Oral contraceptives can cause falsely low vitamin B(12) levels. Acta Haematol 2000;104(1):22-4.

Carmel R. Mild transcobalamin I (haptocorrin) deficiency and low serum cobalamin concentrations. Clin Chem 2003;49(8):1367-74

Riedel B, Nexo E, et al. Effects of oral contraceptives and hormone replacement therapy on cobalamin status. J Inherit Metab Dis 2003;23(supl):127

Rosenthal HL, Wilbois RP. Influence of oral contraceptive agents on vitamin B12 absorption and plasma level. Fed Proc 1975:34:905.

Sutterlin MW, Bussen SS, Rieger L, Dietl J, Steck T. Serum folate and Vitamin B12 levels in women using modern oral contraceptives (OC) containing 20 microg ethinyl estradiol. Eur J Obstet Gynecol Reprod Biol 2003;107(1):57-61.

Lussana F, Zighetti ML, Bucciarelli P, Cugno M, Cattaneo M. Blood levels of homocysteine, folate, vitamin B6 and B12 in women using oral contraceptives compared to non-users. Thromb Res 2003;112(1-2):37-41.

Vakur Bor, M. Do we have any good reason to suggest restricting

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