>
Arugula wrote:

> I don't think it's ethical to take advantage of
> people's gullibility and to promote magical
> thinking.
> This can be especially dangerous when one's diet
> borders on religion. Some people will cling to
> their
> diets against all rationality, even when it makes
>
> them unwell.
>
Are you talking about Alissa when you say that? Could you be more specific?

I think Alissa is not as thin because she has been a weight lifter since her teens. I rode dressage for years which built up my leg muscles and my legs will never be thin because of it. My calves are huge but in no way are they fat. I think she pomotes food that people on the SAD diet will be attracted to. She says she eats mostly greens. I liked her book because it made switching to this way of eating simple. It was quite a task with a family of 5. It was good for beginners.

Oh Ya her food is healthier than cooked...

HEr nut-date pie is SO MUCH healthier than some stir fried veggies right??

i think NOT!!

I have her book and DVD

she introduced me to raw unfortunately... consuming so much of my time inthe kitchen making her dehydrated concoctions, slicing, dicing, soaking, bla bla bla. I had a LONG road to learning raw healthy - thanks to her book and self promotion.


eat anything you want as long as its raw?

OK lets gorge on nuts and dates cus it sure is healthier than a baked yam!??

Oh PLEASE!!!

She is FAT!
the size of her ass..that is NOT muscle!!

I work out I teach aerobics I run marathons...

Take a look at oxygen magazine - THOSE girls are weight lifters...
Muscle is NOT fluffy -
Alissa IS!
She needs a simpler more natural diet - she should go hang out with graham for all I am concerned --

RAW, RIPE, ORGANIC, FRESH , FRUITS AND VEGGIES.

SHe should look at the diet she is promoting...

Healthy...

Oh ya, make her cheese cake, or her black forest cake...

or eat a some cooked apples, yams, any veggies even a piece of ...dare I Say it..bread..

What is healthier, lower in fat, lower in calories....

You decide.

this really is turning into a really rude thread. I honestly hope it stops.

when people get angry or rude, they just reflect the feelings and things what they want to express, inside themselves. It got nooooothing to do with Alissia, or anybody else.

Remember, when someone is angry, disapproval, skeptic and attacks that other persons believe/knowing, she/he reflects what is going on INTO THEMSELVES.

What can this depend on? Unbalance in diet? Bad relationships? Dependence on "science" that been using cooked food as a stadingpoint in ALL their experiements/scientific facts?

Who knows? Only you (whoever you are) can figure that out.

This is an exciting world we live in, USE IT! =)

And back to the thread:
Alissia is a "converter guide" to a MORE healthy lifestyle and diet. MORE I say... She is doing the world a great deal, as many as we are doing here. Contributing to the good sake.

glhf

In the last 2 months I have bought and read or perused books by several authors on raw food living. Alissa's was the first I purchased. At first I was amazed at the delicious recipes Alissa has in the book, but I quickly found that the heavy nut sauces and rich desserts were way more than what I was looking for on a daily menu. They are fine every now and then when we want something heavier, but both my DH & myself have discovered that we like the majority of our food in it's simple state - plain fruit, fruit salads (just cut up and mixed), occasional juices, smoothies, and salads of various greens with other veggies to top.

We've amassed a decent collection of books now, and I have to say I have found SOMEthing valuable in each one, though no single book (yet) seems to be "THE" book even though a couple are more to my liking than others.

I might take a beginner class offered in my area of Alissa's, but certainly I don't expect to come away an expert on raw foods as it's not a certification type class.

Judy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2007 04:09PM by JGex.

Ilooked on her website and book pics, I think they have been photoshopped, because when I saw her ,she did not look that at all. Maybe its shopped and parts are carved off..and she lifted weights before they were taken..

It's ok though, I am not making fun, I am just telling what she looks like in life , not very healthy, to me at least . Just to clarify where I was goign with this....but that kind of diet..it's good for really fat people who need to transition to raw food that reminds them of really fatty foods..

When I saw her it was before her book and she was telling people about her new book coming out, this was in Miami. It was a while ago, things could be different..

I am not making fun, It's ok to be whatever size you are..it is, I am just saying that for me particularly, I want to keep my average weight than gain..

(..and I have gained alot on raw foods before..so I stay away from raw food recipes with that heavy stuff in it)

Ii eat only fruit now so I never have any problem with anything anymore..maybe a few greens every once and a while plain..

look at Thorr from Nature's fist law..he looks good to me, but a few people are saying he is fat..he is the guy who is a body builder and raw..eats avocaods, olives and ever trying to gain weight.. i would not follow his diet..because I am not a weight lifter , so you see we are all different..
he is on the right






Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2007 10:33PM by coconutcream.

pakd4fun Wrote:
----
> Are you talking about Alissa when you say that?

No.

> Could you be more specific?

I see a lot of raw food talk that I find disturbing. But
the most recent thing that troubled me was Angela Stokes
writing of her 92 day juice fast reversing aging and
having to be 92 days long because the body requires
92 minerals. That's just crazy, but she clearly believes it.

> I think Alissa is not as thin because she has been
> a weight lifter since her teens.

I don't know anything about what her body looks like,
I haven't paid much attention to her promotional
materials, which includes anything on her website.

She didn't make a positive impression on me based on
her participation here. I think others, who are not
trying to make a living off of it, know much more
about what constitutes good human feeding. And that
should say a lot!

I agree..

I didn't think of that..I would be a lot different if I were making a living of anything, especially raw foods. I am trained too.. I told this lady, who charges 300 dollars an hour for her services in healthy food, , I would teach her and her kids about raw food one day for free..what, just hanging out with children making raw food? It is fun, even though I eat only fruit, I do stuff like that..well, she has to buy ingredients..

Bob marley's mother had a vegan chef she hired simply because he made raw food and gave it away for free, she was impressed by him, before she hired him to live with her....

I mean, selling is one thing, to be successful, you HAVE to be a scammer on some level..I don't care how that sounds its true and everybody in business knows it..

There is this lady in miami who sells raw food at outrageous prices, her crackers are so expensive and her necklaces that she beads, at least 200 dollars, and she talks and talks...plugs away everywhere.. and makes it so exclusive and you have to hire her and buy her books and hire her in order to be successful..

I am for all raw food books and stuff, but these people are SELLING something and you have to be a little wary..Angela stokes is cool, but yeah that 92 day thing sounds weird to me.. I mean, maybe in her mind it is true, like law of attraction or something, but in order for it to work for us we need to believe it..and we don't so it won't work..

I am sure each of us have weird little things, if we were all to write a book..lol can you imagine..





Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2007 11:00PM by coconutcream.

>I mean, selling is one thing, to be successful, you HAVE to be a scammer on some level..I don't care how that sounds its true and everybody in business knows it..

Yes, this is true. The scamming is more important than the substance.

>I am sure each of us have weird little things, if we were all to write a book..lol can you imagine..



Yes, I did write two books. The third one, pending, will be available as a download for about $3 but it is on hold for about 3 months because I am too busy right now. I hope that is not too much of a scam. I am a hopeless failure at self-promotion.

I just go to the trouble of gathering info that has some credibility and putting it together.

Some people found the previous books helpful because it saved them time and trouble of looking up the info and learning how to use it for themselves. Some of it was very complicated to wade through. But it would be better if they did go to the time and trouble to look it up, because people learn more that way.

And also they complained that the info was too technical! I am never one to oversimplify a complicated subject. Sometimes the devil is in the details.

coconutcream Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

[snip]
>
> I mean, selling is one thing, to be successful,
> you HAVE to be a scammer on some level..I don't
> care how that sounds its true and everybody in
> business knows it..
>

IMHO that is SO completely untrue. Perhaps you were in sales and were less than honest so you think that of others. I assure you, it is not the case for the majority in my experience.

I have encountered plenty of truthful, ethical people who sell things honestly without hype or exaggeration. I doubt most people 'in business' would agree with you, let alone 'everybody'.

I love to read others experiences..and creations..good for you..

greenie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> coconutcream Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
>
> >
> > I mean, selling is one thing, to be successful,
> > you HAVE to be a scammer on some level..I don't
> > care how that sounds its true and everybody in
> > business knows it..
> >
>
> IMHO that is SO completely untrue. Perhaps you
> were in sales and were less than honest so you
> think that of others. I assure you, it is not the
> case for the majority in my experience.
>
> I have encountered plenty of truthful, ethical
> people who sell things honestly without hype or
> exaggeration. I doubt most people 'in business'
> would agree with you, let alone 'everybody'.

I'll agree with that. We create our own product... it's there if people want to buy it, and there is no need to over-hype our stuff. Good product and info sells itself.

I will agree with CC, though, that there does seem to be a LOT of overly exhuberant sales techniques in the raw food market. I don't care for the Tony Robbins type salesmanship.... but that's just me.

Judy

Well, Judy, I agree with you about the over exhuberant sales pitch in the raw food markets. And, I know this dates me, but I love that you can spell ;-)

lol Is this about exuberant spelled wrong? You guys are so great!





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2007 12:40AM by coconutcream.

lol!! Whoops... no h in exuberant. Dang, and I used to proof read for a newspaper!!!

hahaha

Judy

Here is Alissa on Tyra Banks Diet Wars. Its great that she is exposing people on national television to raw foods!

coconut...

I don't think everyone in business is a scammer at all. I have been forced into sales positions and met a lot of scammers though and didn't like it. My most successful venture was when I completely took a risk and wrote a column in my local paper about my take on relationships as I was going through a divorce. I didn't plan on making money on it. I got paid $20 a week but ended up doing ok with other stuff. Basically I became a local celebrity just by being honest and saying what I really thought. Technically this is business. I was an entreprenuer at that point. I was carving my own past and I was gaining from my honesty. Where's the scam from me in that?

Unfortunately there is a lot of scamming in business. One of the things I want to do is try as hard as I can to design things that end up positive for everyone. It's hard but that's what I want to do.

The raw food promotional thing is a tough one because it kind of wraps the mystical in with the business and practical. However, if I hadn't met someone who exposed me to raw foods and books then I woulda still been living a massively depressed life, free from most beauty and not really able to access parts of me I really believe in.

Thanks bryan for the link, but didn't she look... hmm.. fluffier than in her DVD?
Maybie her hair made her fluffy. And SHORTER? Tyra is sure a tall lady. That's funny. =)

Arugula:

You must be the most angry, difficult, orney, unhappy person I have ever encountered, not to mention: libelous, slanderous and defamatory. What is wrong with you??????????????? Truly????????????????

If I were you I would seek medical help for your ATTITUDE. & I would seek legal advice on your voice on this forum. You are way out of line time and again. I for one have had enough.

Your assumptions about me, my posts, my whatever ARE WAY OUT OF LINE. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHO I AM, WHAT I DO, HOW I IT, WHERE I DO OR WHY I DO IT.

Lady, if we need to have a personal discussion we will. However, I would prefer that you simply CHECK your attitude at the door WITH ALL OF US HERE. You often post very helpful information, but the last time I reviewed you were NOT God/Goddess.

Enough.

Blissed be, Annie

PS:

Same with your ASSUMPTIONS about Alissa Cohen. Thank the woman at least for getting THE WORD out there. You really have a severe problem IMO.

>You must be the most angry, difficult, orney, unhappy person I have ever encountered, not to mention: libelous, slanderous and defamatory. What is wrong with you??????????????? Truly????????????????

I think you are describing yourself. This is not a rational response. I would not call it blissful, vibrant, or healthy, either. Also I suspect you are confusing my posts with those of others. I did not call anyone names or insult anyone.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2007 08:01PM by arugula.

arugula,

Where can I get these books?

I think Arugula RAWks!


khale

I have Alissa's book and DVD. The DVD is quite inspiring for those getting started. I've loaned it out a number of times. I think she's doing a lot of good.

Her appearance on the Tyra Banks show --- well, she should have had an agent or someone coach her on dress, hair and presentation. She looked short, squat, sloppy, and also not very energetic. And pudgy. She looks a good 25 pounds heavier than she looks on her DVD.

Some of that is undoubtedly due to her clothing (who ever put her in that jacket?) and her hair (Oy!), but her face also looks puffy and her eyes look dull. She doesn't seem energetic. This may be due to diet, her genetic constitution, the way the camera translates, or even just nervousness about being on the air.

I don't think she's the best example of raw diet for weight loss. Not that weight loss is the be-all and end-all, it's just that the show was about weight loss.

These are just my impressions. Like Bryan, I think she does a lot of good. And good for her getting the word out.

love to all, because love will solve everything. =)

man, you people don't know how to not take crap on the internet personally. check your personal issues at the door and get OVER yourselves already. geez.
practical and straightforward doesn't neccessarily = rude. where is that post where the lovely person talks about reading things in your own voice and when you change your voice you get an entirely different message? i loved that post! it's so true.
so read this in the voice you will...

i also remember alissa's participation here a few (a couple?) of years back. yes, it's great that she's getting the word out there but her attitude leaves a little to be desired. she acted like a spoiled, pouty little brat on this forum when she checking in for the express purpose of pursuing someone who had an arguement with her and that she had banned from her site. she just HAD to have the last word and when she met with rebuff here she pitched a little hissy fit. it was actually kind of funny.

as for thor, in that unfortunate picture he is at least twice the size that he was when i worked at NFL. that's Enormous for him. i don't know what was going on in his life for him to pack on the pounds like that but i don't think that falling off the raw wagon (if that is what happened) makes him less of an authority on the diet. even more so in fact, it's so good to have perspective from both sides of the fence. then again, his wife was writing an uncook book when i met her so she was probably making him taste a thousand delicious high-fat recipes every day! who knows and who knows what he looks like now, that picutre is old.

when i worked for the sprout house i had access to nearly every raw book out there and went to seminars with all the big raw food dudes (and dudettes!) . yes, everyone had something of value to offer me personally and so i took what i wanted and left the rest. i certainly won't condemn someone for having a different perspective than i do, i don't think there is any one thing that works for every person after all. but, based on how much of their philosophy pertains to ME, there are individuals that i look to for advice more often than others.
if you like alissa's books, dvds, recipes etc. go for it! and if you don't, well take it as a lesson learned about what doesn't work for you. that's equally valuable if not more so.

I watched the rest of the "Diet War" episode. It seems to me that the amount of weight lost was more a function of the sincerity and the dedication of the person on the diet rather than the quality of the particular diet. The male coach's approach was a lot of exercise, and changing the food choices. I think he used portion control. The other female coach's approach was simple energy in versus energy out. And then Alissa's was all you can eat raw foods.

The other thing I noticed was that the male coach spent more time with his clients that the two women coaches. He visited them more than once, and he spoke to them every day on the phone for motivation. I don't think the other coaches went to this level of contact.

The two nannies who worked with the woman coach behaved like defiant children. When they made their home video of their workouts, they did some kind of victory dance that said "you can't control us, we're going to do what we want to do". Tyra said to those two "this was about competing and putting in your best effort, kind of like going to the olympics". If their coach had more experience with low motivation people with tons of excuses for why they should fail, perhaps she could have been more effective.

In the short term, Alissa's diet ought to work well. And it did for one woman. The other just couldn't get her head around what was necessary, and she was unwilling to make the changes. If Alissa had the same kind of experience I was referring to with the other woman coach, perhaps she could have coaxed this unwilling participant into going a little further.

It is interesting to see the effects of the high fat diet on people long term. With the picture of Thor, it is clear that something wasn't working, whether it was his diet or he was perhaps eating emotionally. When bodybuilders eat a diet to put on a lot of weight, this can backfire if the amount of exercise that the person does shrinks over time. Haven't you ever noticed that when bodybuilders stop going to the gym, that they tend to get pretty flabby? This is because they've built up habits around eating a lot of fatty foods, and without the exercise, their bodies gain excessive weight.

With Alissa, the effects of her diet are showing on her body. The puffiness in the face can be a result of eating salt. When I visit San Francisco and have a meal at Cafe Gratitude, I notice the next morning how my face looks puffy. It goes away after a day or so. But if I ate salt every day, the puffiness would be permanent.

Of the 3 coaches on the show, Alissa's diet and health regime appears the least healthy, in terms of how healthy each person's body appears. However, looking healthy doesn't mean being healthy. A healthy looking person could have a tumor growing somewhere on their body or their arteries could be clogged. However, if someone looks unhealthy, that is a good indication of poor health.

Bryan, you bring up good points.

The fact is, this was a short-term experiment that addressed only one issue - weight loss.

I would have much rather seen them talk about health AND weight, do some blood work, take some base-line measurements beyond merely weight and compare those as well.

As for the negative comments concerning the content of Alissa’s diet, she says clearly in her book that the recipes that are more dense and labor intensive are good for those transitioning, and that there is a natural inclination to drift toward and settle into more simple and less processed eating styles. She claims that she herself moved in that direction. Let’s face it, not all of us are able to jump into mono meals or low fat raw.

It’s my personal opinion that simple and low fat is best for me, and I find myself curious as to whether or not we can make universal statements about what is best for all of us as a species. I know I have my opinion. But the bottom line is that Alissa is making the diet interesting and palatable for people who would just never jump into a simpler form of the diet. I remember when I first went vegan. Well, if you take the meat out of the meal plan, just what DO you eat? It was so foreign to me. I had always planned what meat we would eat and then the sides that went with that; remove the center piece and I was completely lost. Similarly for people used to operating from recipe books and using a lot of gadgets, tools and kitchen cookware, so they look for analogues. Alissa gives them that. Just because she makes recipes, heavier foods and analogues available does not mean that she advocates a diet only of those things to the exclusion of simpler meals, she does not.

I’ve read her book cover to cover, and she offers a lot of accurate and valuable information.

Deborah



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2007 10:42PM by D'vorah.

I guess if someone is in a raw food paradise, all day long, almost everyday, like a raw food cook is, I suppose it would be possible to be tempted more, and gain a little weight, regardless of how healthy it is for you. Over doing anything good can be bad for you. Like too much water can kill you.

Anyone who points people in the right direction, deserves some admiration.

If a few overweight people are bitter because they gained weight on her diet, then maybe they need to have more balance in there lives and read a few raw books and get balanced knowledge.

I could never understand why any human would submit too, like a cult, any raw food author and expert. It's your own falt if you do this and get fat or lose muscle or get too thin,or malnurished or even die, because one person was like a god to you, and their writings were like holy grail. Read, research, study, investigate, dig deeper, and learn from a variety of different sources.

I love Alissa Cohen, she does great work! Her sister
Stacie lived down the street from me and she introduced
me to raw foods. Stacie hosted potlucks every month
for over 7 years!!

I thought her appearance on the Tyra Banks show was
cool. What was up with that guy making faces at the
food? He was acting rude. He asked for scientific
evidence of people healing themselves simply by
eating raw foods...

Why doesn't Hippocrates Health Institute publish all
the miraculous healings that have occured at their
retreat center? If Oprah does a show on Hippocrates
then raw foods may have more credibility in the mainstream.

I interviewed Carlene Jones last summer, she lost 136 pounds
in 9 months simply by eating raw vegan foods and exercising.
I think she should be featured on the Tyra Banks show next!

Mike



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2007 11:50PM by Mike.