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Black sapote
Posted by: Tai ()
Date: July 08, 2019 03:58PM

Hi everyone,
I know that a couple people on this forum have lived on tropical farms. Has
anyone grown or dealt with black sapote trees?

The tree is dioecious -- male trees bear no fruit. Some trees have all female or both male and female flowers, allowing them to set fruit

Does anyone know how to identify this? I just got a small grafted tree and it's flowering and i want to know how to take care of it right now. The person I got it from can't carry a conversation in English.

Also some flowers are falling off after blooming.

From the web:
About Chocolate Persimmon Trees and How to Take Care of Them
Also known as black sapote, chocolate persimmon (Diospyros digyna) gets its name not only from the rich, brown color of its fruit pulp, but the taste, often described as similar to chocolate pudding. Native to Mexico, Central and South America, chocolate persimmon trees belong to the ebony family. Although suitable for growing in U.S. Department of Agriculture plant hardiness zones 10 and 11, the plant may be difficult to find commercially.

Growth Habit
Black or chocolate persimmon grows to about 30 feet tall in cultivation, as long as they are pruned regularly. Left to its own devices, the tree can top 80 feet. An evergreen with attractive, deeply furrowed black bark, chocolate persimmon trees have an erect growth habit with an oval or oblong canopy. The tree is dioecious -- male trees bear no fruit. Some trees have all female or both male and female flowers, allowing them to set fruit. Varieties include "Merida," "Mossman," "Bernicker" and an almost seedless cultivar called "Seperb."

Foliage and Flowers
Chocolate persimmon's dark green leaves are leathery but shiny, growing up to 12 inches long. Some branch tips may develop spines. Flowers appear in the leaf axils. Male flowers generally form in clusters, while female flowers tend to be solitary bloomers. The fragrant, tubular flowers appear in the spring and are small and white with dark centers. Male flowers generally have a more intense fragrance than female flowers. The flowers are pollinated by insects, but some varieties may require cross-pollination with another variety of black persimmon to set fruit properly.

Fruit
Unlike the familiar, bright red persimmon usually found in grocery stores, chocolate persimmon resembles a green tomato. The fruit may be up to 5 inches in diameter, round and slightly flattened. The flesh remains green to dark green until fully ripe, when it turns brown to black and becomes soft. Up to 12 oblong seeds may develop inside the fruit, although some fruits from the same tree may be seedless. Chocolate persimmon is prolific, with healthy trees producing large crops each year.

Culture
The California Rare Fruit Growers website recommends black or chocolate persimmon for areas where winter temperatures do not fall below 29 degrees F. Trees may be grown from seeds, which take about a month to germinate after planting. To accommodate the tree's size, chocolate persimmons should be planted 10 to 12 feet apart. Seedlings should be one to two years old before planting in the garden and will begin setting fruit when they are about five years old. The tree grows best in full sunlight and is not particular about soil type, as long as it has good drainage.

Chocolate persimmon trees need almost no care once the seedlings are established in the yard. Water young trees weekly for the first couple of months. Mature trees only need supplemental water during prolonged periods of drought.

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Re: Black sapote
Posted by: RawPracticalist ()
Date: July 14, 2019 03:53AM

>The tree is dioecious -- male trees bear no fruit.

So there are male and female trees?

I thought trees were just trees just like a stone is a stone.

What is the role of a male tree?

I have to find one and say Hi.

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Re: Black sapote
Posted by: Tai ()
Date: July 14, 2019 11:53PM

This answers your question below Raw Practicalist. So far, none of the flowers have produced fruit. I see this group of gardeners discuss this down below:

[www.gardenguides.com]

Are There Male & Female Fruit Trees?
By Ruby Martes
For a tree to bear fruit, its flowers must be pollinated. Some fruit trees have flowers that can pollinate themselves. Others have separate male and female flowers, while some have only male or only female flowers.



Pollination
Pollination occurs when pollen from the male part of a flower transfers to the female part of a flower. Some flowers, called "perfect flowers," contain both male and female parts. Other flowers are exclusively male or exclusively female.

Types
Some fruit trees, called "self-fruitful," contain perfect flowers that can produce fruit from their own pollen. "Self-unfruitful" trees, on the other hand, contain perfect flowers that are unable to pollinate themselves. Other trees, called "monoecious," contain separate male and female flowers on the same tree. "Dioecious" trees contain only male flowers or only female flowers.

Identification
To tell whether a fruit tree is male or female, check to see if it has fruit. If it does, it must be female. A fruitless tree is not necessarily male, however. It could simply be a female tree that has not been pollinated.

[www.thesurvivalgardener.com]

According to the University of Florida:

“Black sapote may be propagated by seed, marcottage (air-layering, budding, and grafting. Black sapote varieties do not come true from seed and seedling trees may take up to 5 or 6 years to flower. Trees with only male flowers will not produce fruit; trees with female or male and female flowers will bear fruit. Superior fruit varieties and selections are therefore propagated by budding and grafting.”

I hadn’t heard previously of there being some trees that are solely male; however, this is the case with their cousin the persimmon.

If you did have that kind of poor luck, then I would simply graft on some female scion wood.

The Rare Fruit Club of Australia covers the issue in short:

“Black sapote is usually andromonecious, ie it has both male and hermaphrodite flowers on the same tree. The axillary flowers are normally solitary if hermaphrodite and in clusters of 3-7 if male. They are white and tubular-lobed with a persistent 4-lobed green calyx and an ovary with 8-12 carpels. Self-incompatibility has been reported for some isolated trees; others may produce only male flowers. Pollination is by insects.”

[myrarefruitphotos.blogspot.com]

SATURDAY, MAY 12, 2007
Black Sapote (Diospyros digyna) in bloom

IMG_4920
Originally uploaded by z_kevino. Also known as the Chocolate Pudding Fruit, the black sapote is one of my favorite fruits. Surprisingly enough, this tree is 6 years old, always flowers, but never sets fruit. Let's see how it does this year.
If it fruits, I'll write an entry about the fruit.

This tree has flowers which have both male and female organs, and others which are solely male. I assume this photo shows both types.
POSTED BY KZ AT 11:05 AM
3 COMMENTS:
aier said...
i had a plant too but only blooms never fruiting. the flower also same as your photo. it grow from seed now is almost 10 years old. may be it only produce male flower.

JUNE 27, 2009 AT 1:39 AM
aviphysio said...
I have a black sapote as well that is a few years old. Grows beautifully, and this is its second year flowering, but again, as in the first year, the flowers have started to fall off. We have similar conical blossoms, and the tubular flowers. I read a post that the female flowers are fuller and rounder. Does anyone out there have a photo of one?
Thanks!
Let us know if you ever get any fruit!

JUNE 20, 2012 AT 11:11 PM
Amorim said...
About blooming:
Black sapote is usually dioecious, meaning that some trees produce only male flowers and no fruit and other trees produce female or bisexual flowers and fruit. Some trees may produce both male and female (or bisexual) flowers on the same tree.
Pollination:
Some trees may produce only male flowers. Male flowers are usually in clusters of 3 to 7, and female flowers are usually solitary. Flowers are white and tubular, with a green calyx and an 8- to 12-carpelled ovary. Flowers are pollinated by insects. Some varieties may be self-incompatible and therefore require cross pollination with another variety or seedling that produces male or bisexual flowers in order to produce fruit.

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Re: Black sapote
Posted by: RawPracticalist ()
Date: July 20, 2019 11:45AM

Thanks Tai, very interesting.

Nature is so deep in its display of spiritual teachings and symbolism.









>Some trees may produce both male and female (or bisexual) flowers on the same tree.

Given the diversity in nature, we humans have to be tolerant towards our bisexual friends



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2019 11:49AM by RawPracticalist.

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Re: Black sapote
Posted by: Tai ()
Date: July 21, 2019 05:08AM

I really don't like comparing humans to animals or other creatures/plants when it comes to sex because humans have advanced moral codes. It's why Jeffrey Epstein is in jail right now, and it's because of our morals that we don't excuse Epstein based on examples from the animal kingdom.

I need to take photos tomorrow. Two of the black sapote flowers started to form fruit but at some point, the fruit could not keep developing and it seems like the fruit is drying up. The difference is that I started to give it some fertilizer. So I think it's possible if I learn how to fertilize ASAP, I might get to keep some blossoms that will turn into fruit. At least, I see some evidence that I will be able to get fruit eventually.

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