I finally have let go of the perfectionism that kept me immobilized from doing something practical. There you have Brian Clement putting down blending and smoothies, yet juicing sometimes takes too much time when done with a proper juicer.

Kale, certified organic, deserves it's own category because it's in all the stores, and of all the greens, it's the hardest to chew properly. You can cook with it but it's not easy to chew even after cooked.

I have gotten amazing results juicing it in the angel juicer which extracts more calcium than other green juicers like the tribest green star. But I rarely do that when I am busy. Green star juicers are good. But lesser juicers lose too much.

For too long, I would just abstain from kale because I didn't have time to juice. I always have been drawn to the blue lacinto kale, aka dinosaur, and would eat raw kale salads but chewing kale just doesn't cut it.

SO I finally found a way to consume it regularly that I like.
In a Vitamix blender, blend the raw kale (no stem) in a little water until a pulp. Pour it over cut up fruit like mango.
I also mixed the pureed raw kale with spicy indian soup, which is easier on a delicate stomach because of the warming herbs (ratio is 1:1).

I never could get into Lou COrona's gorilla milk because it's too fatty for a woman. He would make coconut and almond milk and then mix 50-50 with green juice. I don't want to take in a huge amount of calories just to get some green in me.

SO I am really happy with the chopped mango-pureed kale. I much prefer this over a mango smoothie where everything is blended together. I have been getting such huge juicy mangoes lately...happy delight.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/2019 04:18PM by Tai.

HI Raw Practicalist. I cut and pasted a comment you made in the juice thread over here.

Raw Practicalist
Green juices and green smoothies from rich vegetables such as kale have shown to be not good for us because of oxalic acid.
Is light cooking the solution?

Tai
I personally feel a healing in my spine when I drink a lot of kale juice from an angel juicer (a pound of leaf no stem and then juiced). I remove the stem before juicing. I also stir the juice into a fruit smoothie before drinking.
THe Gerson program relied on green juices, including chard, which has a high amount of oxalic acid.
Ann WIgmore raised her generation on green smoothies, called the energy soup plus green juice
Numerous people report healing from green juice and smoothies.
Even you make green juice.

There are cooking methods to reduce oxalic acid. You would have to boil in water for 2 minutes and throw the water away. But this is only helpful if a person wants to eat cooked greens. Dr. Essylstyn has his patients eat cooked greens 5 times a day for heart health. SO there is some benefit cooked.
But if a person wants to heal, like for the spine as I was saying, raw juice or smoothies is the way to go. I never felt a healing in my spine eating cooked greens.

I think you like Norman Walker. He was a believer in raw green juice and he said oxalic acid was healthy if it was raw.

[www.healthline.com]

However, across-the-board oxalate restriction is no longer recommended to every person with kidney stones. This is because most of the oxalate found in urine is produced by the body, rather than absorbed from food (7Trusted Source).

Most urologists now only prescribe a strict low-oxalate diet (less than 50 milligrams per day) for patients who have high levels of oxalate in their urine (6Trusted Source)

Your Gut Determines Oxalate Absorption

Some of the oxalate you eat can be broken down by bacteria in the gut, which happens before it can bind to minerals.

One of them, Oxalobacter formigenes, actually uses it as an energy source. It significantly reduces the amount your body absorbs (11Trusted Source).

However, some people don't have much of this bacteria in their gut, as antibiotics decrease the number of O. formigenes colonies (12Trusted Source).

What's more, studies have found that people with inflammatory bowel disease have an increased risk of developing kidney stones (13Trusted Source, 14Trusted Source).

This is partly because they are unable to regulate the amount of oxalate they absorb.

Similarly, elevated levels of oxalate have been found in the urine of patients who have had gastric bypass surgery or other surgeries that alter gut function (15Trusted Source).

This suggests that people who have taken antibiotics or suffer from gut dysfunction may benefit more from a low-oxalate diet.

Should You Avoid it?

People who tend to form kidney stones may benefit from a low-oxalate diet.

However, healthy people trying to stay healthy do NOT need to avoid nutrient-dense foods just because they are high in oxalates.

It is simply not a nutrient of concern for most people.

I made a green juice in my new Shine juicer. There are some things, it did ok on like cilantro stem, chopped up celery, romaine, but other things it was worthless for, such as kale and cabbage.

Yes Tai you are correct, green juices and smoothies from indoor grown micro greens is my life.

I do add celery and cabbage juice.

But I have to admit the addition of fermented vegetable juices did make a big difference in increasing the rate of absorption and my overall health.

Fruits and fruit juices do not seem to have this problem.

I had digestive issues for years so my situation may be unique.

But I think light cooking or steaming dark greens may work well in family situations. Children in most cases do not enjoy drinking green juices but may be open to eating steamed vegetables.

I found a new way to blend kale last night. I filled up the Vitamix about 5 cups of chopped raw kale (no stem), a handful of basil, a larger handful of cilantro, sundried tomatoes, raw fresh chilis, etc etc and I made a kale pesto. It was bitter but it didn't affect the stomach the way bare kale does, I think because of the chilis. I am hooked now because I can't believe how nutritious even one cup of raw kale is and this is a way to reduce and pack kale to make it easier to digest. Pesto has so many other ingredients, so it's to everyone's own individual preference.

This is an eye-opening article:

[www.healthline.com]

"One advantage that kale has over leafy greens like spinach is that it is low in oxalate, a substance found in some plants that can prevent minerals from being absorbed (26)."

[www.healthline.com]

I did not know this:
"Kale is one of the world's best sources of vitamin K, with a single raw cup containing almost 7 times the recommended daily amount."

The article says they have done studies with kale:
One study found that drinking kale juice every day for 12 weeks increased HDL (the "good" cholesterol by 27% and lowered LDL levels by 10%, while also improving antioxidant status (12).

Here is study with steamed kale. Wow, I never knew this. THis is going to help a lot of people:

According to one study, steaming kale dramatically increases the bile acid binding effect. Steamed kale is actually 43% as potent as cholestyramine, a cholesterol-lowering drug that functions in a similar way (13).

Kale is much higher in vitamin C than most other vegetables, containing about 4.5 times much as spinach (9).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2019 01:10PM by Tai.

When Victoria Boutenko book The Green Smoothie Revolution came out in 2009, kale was thought to be the solution to our health problems.

[www.penguinrandomhouse.com]

Kale, banana, Vitamix blender and you had the perfect mix.

We did not need the juicer anymore.

It did not work even though kale is not that high in oxalic acid.

We have to find out why.

The body ability to absorb the nutrients is more relevant than the nutrients themselves.

We have to understand why our closest relatives the chimps and Bonobos eat only about 5 percent greens.

[everydayayurveda.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2019 02:47PM by RawPracticalist.

Raw P
When Victoria Boutenko book The Green Smoothie Revolution came out in 2009, kale was thought to be the solution to our health problems.

Tai
Yes and no. smoothies are not appealing to some people. THe idea of blending the greens with a bunch of fruit and then drinking 2 quarts of smoothies is not for everyone.

Raw P
We did not need the juicer anymore.

Tai
Well the blender is a quick solution to a busy day. No one is saying it's the best for all greens, although it's the best for some.

Raw P
It did not work even though kale is not that high in oxalic acid.

Tai
I met Victoria in person when she was selling her books and giving talks back then. SHe said she hurt herself by eating too much kale continuously because of the alkaloids not the oxalic acid. She needed to rotate her greens.

I prefer now to just blend the kale into a puree with NO fruit. This is what I am talking about. NOt just kale, other greens too.

Raw P
We have to find out why.

Tai
My opinion is people like density, which is why starch diets are popular. smoothies take up a lot of volume. THe kale pesto I made is very dense and compact with not much liquid, and so I will be consuming that frequently. When I blended the kale with a little water, it was also dense too. I think food that takes up less space in the stomach will be more popular.

Green smoothies "do work" but that's not the issue; it's getting people to drink them.

p.s. Victoria Boutenko used a lot of fat in her recipes and oil too. It was probably the cause why she was heavy as a raw vegan. I had some of her videos and I would cringe seeing how much oil she poured into her recipes. See, even she craved density, because oil is dense calories. anyway, VIctoria tried her best but it wasn't optimal.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2019 05:06PM by Tai.

>I prefer now to just blend the kale into a puree with NO fruit. This is what I am talking about. NOt just kale, other greens too.

I guess there are so many ways to turn a potentially good thing into some bad choices and few disciplined ways to make it into a beneficial experience.

The chimps in the wild just eat the greens with nothing else, they will eat the other foods at another meal or another day.

We have to train our palate to enjoy these foods in their natural flavor or with limited ingredients.

How do we get the children on board when they are so used to sugar and salt?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2019 08:42PM by RawPracticalist.

Raw Practicalist:
The chimps in the wild just eat the greens with nothing else, they will eat the other foods at another meal or another day.

We have to train our palate to enjoy these foods in their natural flavor or with limited ingredients.

Tai
all I mean is to blend the kale with a small amount of liquid, so it's not so bulky the way fruit smoothies are so large in volume. Once the plain kale is blended, then it can be eaten in combination with other things. I ate it with chopped mango like a soup. The pesto recipe is a bit like that because there is no fruit involved, but spices and herbs are added for flavor. This pesto can be eaten as a salad dressing with raw lettuce or with vegetables or used as a legume dressing.

Raw Practicalist:
How do we get the children on board when they are so used to sugar and salt?

Tai
My teacher said some people in China give the herb Huang Lian to children as their very first taste in life after milk when they are ready to eat. Huang LIan is very bitter, more bitter than dandelion. When babies have Huang Lian as their very first taste in life, they are more apt to accept bitter herbs later. Kale is bitter but not that bitter. So it's a gradual and disciplined approach for children. Brian CLement's children are very much into greens because he disciplined them.

>When babies have Huang Lian as their very first taste in life, they are more apt to accept bitter herbs later. Kale is bitter but not that bitter. So it's a gradual and disciplined approach for children.

It is not too much the cooked food issue, it is the sweet and the sugar that is the root cause of all the disease and cancer.

Young kids many have sweets in their mouth most of the time as a way to occupy and entertain them.

Millions spent on cancer research could be better used educating families.

When family members and grand parents bring present to the kids it is more sweet and sugar.

They love them so much.






Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2019 01:04PM by RawPracticalist.