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Re: Robert Lockhart dead at 75 from dry fasting...
Posted by: RawPracticalist ()
Date: December 21, 2019 07:00AM

Regular exercise is more important than raw food and dry fasting.

[www.youtube.com]

That is why the 80/10/10 diet is success for most, it is heavy on exercise.

It is more about what we can assimilate and eliminate.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2019 07:16AM by RawPracticalist.

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Re: Robert Lockhart dead at 75 from dry fasting...
Posted by: Jennifer ()
Date: December 22, 2019 02:37AM

Quote
Tai
Two vegans in Florida accused of starving their 18-month-old son to death by feeding him only raw fruits and vegetables have been indicted on murder charges, authorities said.

The boy’s mother later told cops that the family’s four children ate only raw foods like mangoes, rambutans, bananas and avocados. The boy had not eaten solid food for a week, but was being breastfed, Sheila O’Leary told police.

The charges also involved the couple’s three other children, ages 3, 5 and 11. The alleged abuse took place this year, Fox said.

Those children were also allegedly malnourished, one so badly that some of their teeth had to be removed, WBBH reported.

[nypost.com]

Tai:
Did the "cooked food is poison" guilt-tripping belief limit these parents from finding foods that would help their children thrive?

I know that some people are raising healthy raw vegan children, but imagine trying to raise 4 kids this way like this couple did. The dad was only 30. Some people are so naive and gullible. What if they heard a raw vegan teacher say, "if you can't find raw food, then just fast" and they took it literally, even for their children. If this family was trying their best and they weren't sickos, the raw food community should help them. It's not fair to spread this strict dogma, like 'cooked food is poison' and 'cooked food is the reason mankind fell', and ignore the casualties. The raw food educators should donate some time and money and investigate cases like these to teach others so that young naive parents will not repeat these mistakes, IF they are going to continue to preach that raw vegan is the most optimal ideal diet for everyone.

She was breastfeeding him, so that was good. Being breastfed and eating raw fruits and vegetables - for an 18 month old - should not have caused his death. Many babies are exclusively breastfed for the first year, 12 months. And then slowly pureed fruits and vegetables are introduced. However if he wasn't getting enough breastmilk or food, that could be an issue. If he was underfed.

I think our focus on the 'Raw' aspect of these children's malnutrition and baby's death, is misdirected because if you research, you'll find many articles about cases where 'Vegan' babies and children were malnourished or died, and the parents were charged. In fact, how often do we see an article about this tragedy happening to RAW babies and children? Isn't it usually "Vegan" children.

And how many Vegan babies and children are fine compared to how many Vegan babies and children die? Is it possible that the percentage of Vegan babies and children who are Malnourished or die is no higher than the percentage of SAD babies and children who die of Undernourishment caused by BEING UNDERFED? By 'malnurished' I mean just plain not getting enough food to eat, underfed. The Breastfeeding aspect of this situation is important.

"The Raw Food Community" has no responsibility to 'help' anyone any more than the Cooked Food Community or the Carnivore 'Community' does. Which 'community' has the responsibly to 'help' fat/obese people who end up diseased and dying from eating too much. Should the Carnivore Community 'help' those who end up getting diseases and dying from eating loads of Animal Fat?

*********

What I'm trying to say is - I don't think the 18-month old breastfed baby died because he ate Raw Fruits and Vegetables instead of Cooked Fruits and Vegetables.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2019 03:17AM by Jennifer.

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Re: Robert Lockhart dead at 75 from dry fasting...
Posted by: Jennifer ()
Date: December 22, 2019 03:24AM

Also, from another NY Post article -

[nypost.com]

"After interviewing the couple, according to News-press, police noted that two of their other children, aged 3 and 5, were pale and yellowish in colour.

Authorities also noted that the children weighed in the very bottom of the weight range for their age."

So in other words, the other children were Not Underweight. They were Within Their Weight Range.

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Re: Robert Lockhart dead at 75 from dry fasting...
Posted by: Tai ()
Date: December 22, 2019 01:36PM

Jennifer
"The Raw Food Community" has no responsibility to 'help' anyone any more than the Cooked Food Community or the Carnivore 'Community' does.

Tai
Why did you ask for advice for your daughter from this raw food board then? I am appalled at the many times you like leaped for joy and celebrated when people shot and/or killed other people in your gun thread. A completely benevolent person would not be happy murdering another person in self defense.

Yes, cooked vegans should help other vegans. I am calling it. Raw vegans should help raw vegans. Carnivores should help carnivores. Everyone should face the consequences of their actions and learn from mistakes.

My friend, a vegan educator, took on a case of a vegan family who lost their vegan child because of b12 deficiency. The state took their child. He investigated this matter deeply and found it was due to carbon monoxide poisoning. That's a huge story in itself. yes, the vegan community had the responsibility to help and this educator stepped forward. Those with a conscience, like my friend, will see it this way.

Even Michael Arnstein, an amazing raw athlete, will point-blank tell you that cooked food has more calories than raw food. A cooked apple has more absorbable/available calories than a raw apple, same with potatoes. Some people cannot digest raw food and they find a lot of raw food in their stool. This can be healed. Brian Clement's solution is to initially use digestive enzymes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2019 01:39PM by Tai.

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Re: Robert Lockhart dead at 75 from dry fasting...
Posted by: RawPracticalist ()
Date: December 22, 2019 03:18PM

Jennifer was mostly at the Other Topics board discussing with riverhousebill on others issues.'

Nobody else seemed to care.

Now she found her way here with same irrelevant discussions that have nothing to do with raw food.

But I guess it is called free speech.

Merry Christmas.

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Re: Robert Lockhart dead at 75 from dry fasting...
Posted by: Jennifer ()
Date: December 22, 2019 06:53PM

Quote
RawPracticalist
Jennifer was mostly at the Other Topics board discussing with riverhousebill on others issues.'

Nobody else seemed to care.

Now she found her way here with same irrelevant discussions that have nothing to do with raw food.

But I guess it is called free speech.

Merry Christmas.


Uh, exactly what 'irrelevant discussions' have I initiated here that have nothing to do with raw food?

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Re: Robert Lockhart dead at 75 from dry fasting...
Posted by: Jennifer ()
Date: December 22, 2019 08:29PM

Quote
Tai
Jennifer
"The Raw Food Community" has no responsibility to 'help' anyone any more than the Cooked Food Community or the Carnivore 'Community' does.

Tai
Why did you ask for advice for your daughter from this raw food board then? I am appalled at the many times you like leaped for joy and celebrated when people shot and/or killed other people in your gun thread. A completely benevolent person would not be happy murdering another person in self defense.

Yes, cooked vegans should help other vegans. I am calling it. Raw vegans should help raw vegans. Carnivores should help carnivores. Everyone should face the consequences of their actions and learn from mistakes.

My friend, a vegan educator, took on a case of a vegan family who lost their vegan child because of b12 deficiency. The state took their child. He investigated this matter deeply and found it was due to carbon monoxide poisoning. That's a huge story in itself. yes, the vegan community had the responsibility to help and this educator stepped forward. Those with a conscience, like my friend, will see it this way.

Even Michael Arnstein, an amazing raw athlete, will point-blank tell you that cooked food has more calories than raw food. A cooked apple has more absorbable/available calories than a raw apple, same with potatoes. Some people cannot digest raw food and they find a lot of raw food in their stool. This can be healed. Brian Clement's solution is to initially use digestive enzymes.

(Warning: Irrelevant to Raw Food)

Yes, it makes me feel good when Justice is Served. When a Victim Triumphs over a Perpetrator. When Evil is Thwarted. When The Prey evades The Predator. When the Good Guy Wins. When an Innocent Victim escapes Death.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2019 08:38PM by Jennifer.

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Re: Robert Lockhart dead at 75 from dry fasting...
Posted by: fresh ()
Date: December 22, 2019 08:31PM

The parents probably should have given a wider variety and included greens seeds blending etc
But again it doesnt say whay exactly they did

Its not because they didnt feed cooked

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Re: Robert Lockhart dead at 75 from dry fasting...
Posted by: Tai ()
Date: December 24, 2019 08:02PM

Jennifer
"The Raw Food Community" has no responsibility to 'help' anyone any more than the Cooked Food Community or the Carnivore 'Community' does.

Tai
Here was a case of raw family whose baby died and the state was going to break up their family:
[www.second-opinions.co.uk]

[www.cnn.com]

Some people in the raw community rallied and helped the family:
[thegardendiet.com]

This is a good Christmas story because it showed how the raw community did rally and help this family.

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Re: Robert Lockhart dead at 75 from dry fasting...
Posted by: Jennifer ()
Date: December 24, 2019 11:35PM

Tai
the raw food community should help them. It's not fair to spread this strict dogma, like 'cooked food is poison' and 'cooked food is the reason mankind fell', and ignore the casualties. The raw food educators should donate some time and money and investigate cases like these to teach others so that young naive parents will not repeat these mistakes, IF they are going to continue to preach that raw vegan is the most optimal ideal diet for everyone.

*********

I don't like the word "Should" ...

Should
"Verb: 1. used to indicate obligation, duty, or correctness, typically when criticizing someone's actions."

Feels like Being Compelled.

"Feel compelled
PHRASE
If you feel compelled to do something, you feel that you must do it, because it is the right thing to do."

Feels Controlling.

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Re: Robert Lockhart dead at 75 from dry fasting...
Posted by: RawPracticalist ()
Date: December 27, 2019 01:46AM

Maybe we can learn better English in our daily quest for healthier bodies on raw food.

Or at least understand why for some unknown reasons the conservatives were created good and the liberals bad or turned themselves into evil because God does not make mistake.

Or comprehend why this is not about raw food at all.

Happy Holidays !!!

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Re: Robert Lockhart dead at 75 from dry fasting...
Posted by: BJ ()
Date: January 09, 2020 08:49AM

When the topic of dry fasting was raised it triggered an old old memory of mine from many many years ago and I thought I'd relate it.

In 1973 I was living in Vancouver BC. I used to frequent the different health food shops and one day I met this nice lady in a health food shop on a street on the way to Stanley Park ( for people familiar with Vancouver ). I was 21 or so and she was probably in her mid 30's. From memory ( and it's a long time ago ) I believe she was European and her husband was from Portugal. She told me that she had dry fasted for 8 days on an island in Europe with no ill effects.

Her husband was an engineer and she was working part time in the health food shop.
They invited me to their place for dinner one evening and it was a simple raw meal of sliced chopped fruits, vegies and nuts and I got a pear and a peach to take home for dessert. They were both very idealistic at the time and a really nice couple.

Her husband had self published a really nicely bound book titled something to the effect '' How To Make the World a Paradise '' and it was about moving to the tropics and eating fruit only - very very idealistic. I even bought a copy - probably one of the only few sold!!!

The husband was from Portugal and that was before Portugal had joined the EEC. Brazil had been a colony of Portugal and the language was Portuguese in Brazil and they told me they were planning to move to Brazil to a place called Belem which was 1% south of the equator - basically right on the equator, so perfect for a ' fruit paradise ' in those days.

I don't know whether I moved to Australia first or she left her job, but that was the last contact I had with them. I never brought the book with me to Australia. They'd be in their 80's now. In those days it wasn't as easy to travel as it is now and moving to the equator sounded quite exotic.

Just something that triggered a memory.

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Re: Robert Lockhart dead at 75 from dry fasting...
Posted by: Tai ()
Date: January 10, 2020 08:15AM

Interesting story BJ.

Aside from fasting, there is something else to be looked at with RObert, which is protein intake. I keep reading that the elderly need 1 g or more protein/kg body weight. Decreased immune function can result from inadequate protein. A high carb low protein low fat diet that might seem okay in middle age may not be sufficient in the elderly years.
[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

I don't understand how raw vegans say 2 pounds of greens a day and a handful of nuts is enough protein. Even if it is enough for a middle age man, is it enough for a tall elderly man? From what I am reading over and over, it's not. Look at the vegetarians/vegans who are reaching very old age: Charlotte Gerson, 97, Ellsworth Wareham, 104, Norman Walker, 99, Bernardo Lapallo, 114. All these people ate more protein than a raw vegan.
Here is an Indian vegetarian (who eats rice and dahl daily) claiming to be over 120:
[www.thesun.co.uk]

I began my vegan journey in 1992 and got influenced by John Robbins. Back then, vegans were told to eat rice and beans for complete protein. That's what I did for many years. I always had thick long hair and no period problems as a menstruating female. I couldn't relate to vegan women who complained of hair loss and menstrual problems. I thought the vegan diet made menstruation a painless event with no PMS, which was my experience. TO be totally honest, the one thing that always stopped me from being all raw was legumes. I couldn't go an entire month of being 100% raw vegan. I couldn't articulate why I didn't feel right without legumes. John Rose would say it's an addiction. I tried my best eating raw legumes and I got sick a few times. The best effort was making raw lentil falafel balls in the dehydrator. I finally understood what the issue was for me as woman when I wasn't able to cook for a couple years and I did experience some hair loss. I learned that legumes have the amino acid lysine which is important for the uptake of iron. I realized that my hair was always strong on the diet and when I stopped eating legumes, my hair suffered and I even had a few difficult periods, and aside from the minerals, the amino acids aren't easily obtained in greens. SO basically, when I stopped eating legumes, I began to experience what a lot of vegan women complain about: menstruation and hair problems. When I figured out what the issue was lysine, iron (not to mention other vitamins, minerals) and sufficient amount of protein, my hair problem was solved. Just compare the average fruitarian woman's hair to a vegetarian Indian woman's hair. There is no comparison usually. The Indian vegetarian typically has long thick hair and the fruitarian usually has a thin diameter typically on the short side--and their diet is totally different in terms of protein quantity. (I am not referring to Indians on very restrictive diets, like Jain diets). SO I doubt when fruitarian/raw vegan women claim their hair loss is due to detox. sad smiley

I looked at a recent Lou COrona video with Dan the Man. Lou started added protein powder to his coconut almond yogurt. He went from doing 5 pushups without the protein to 20 pushups with the extra protein. Fullyrawkristina has been using protein powder for a while now. I was never so much into the sweets, so I never followed her, but I was reading that she had major menstrual problems for like 4 years on the high fruit raw diet. So things were not smooth sailing for her and she has the money and self-permission to get whatever supplement she needs now. Most raw vegan protein powders are made from nuts and seeds. If the fat was not removed, people would get fat from so much whole fatty seeds. Removing the fat is the only way to practically get in enough protein without gaining weight.

I think it's time I go silent for awhile. As John Rose would say, this is a raw food support forum. (What are my comments doing here?). I tried my best picking everyone's brain here I could. And I thank everyone for sharing. I exhausted my search. I might catch up with Lou Corona again and see if there is something I am missing. There are a couple food-related healing protocols and projects I am working on. I will reemerge after they are tested and completed.

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Re: Robert Lockhart dead at 75 from dry fasting...
Posted by: RawPracticalist ()
Date: January 27, 2020 06:36AM

>I began my vegan journey in 1992 and got influenced by John Robbins. Back then, vegans were told to eat rice and beans for complete protein. That's what I did for many years. I always had thick long hair and no period problems as a menstruating female. I couldn't relate to vegan women who complained of hair loss and menstrual problems.


>I looked at a recent Lou COrona video with Dan the Man. Lou started added protein powder to his coconut almond yogurt. He went from doing 5 pushups without the protein to 20 pushups with the extra protein.

Correct and informative. I think we need to be more practical and realistic about the environment we live in now and adopt our diet accordingly. There are many failures when we want to claim that we are "100 percent fruitarian" "100 percent raw"

One could be 90 percent raw and still benefit and contribute to a raw food forum. One could eat some animal products in a limited amount and nondetrimental to the animal and still benefit and contribute to the forum.

Some want to be so special, so extreme that they fail along the way and go back full force to eating the diet of burgers, cokes, and cakes that are so detrimental to many
.
>I think it's time I go silent for awhile
You will be missed. You provided clear answers on the basis of good research and you avoided getting into confrontation with others.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2020 06:43AM by RawPracticalist.

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Re: Robert Lockhart dead at 75 from dry fasting...
Posted by: fresh ()
Date: January 27, 2020 12:51PM

He went from doing 5 pushups without the protein to 20 pushups with the extra
protein.

Invalid conclusion. Good example of what I've talked about

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Re: Robert Lockhart dead at 75 from dry fasting...
Posted by: Horsea ()
Date: February 17, 2020 11:51PM

The constant obsession with "detoxification" has damaged many people because they're so dogmatic in their approach to cooked, vegan whole foods, even though the longest-living and healthiest cultures in the world ate primarily purple sweet potatoes.

Bingo.



The point I am trying to make is my preference is to have an active life of full health, then when the time of death is near, have a short period of sickness or none at all, then die, even if my actual lifetime is shorter than using medical procedures. Other people would rather live as long as possible, sustained by medicines, surgeries, personal nurses, and are OK living wearing diapers or defecating though a hole in the torso or having organs removed from their body and sustained by chemicals.

Five stars for you, Prana.

In Norman Walker's book on colon health he related the story of a man who was cut apart and had to use a colostomy bag (his original problem was constipation). In a public place, the bag broke free and the contents went everywhere. He went home and put a bullet through his head that same day.

There still are people who are pretty healthy and active for any number of years, but then get a message from the Almighty that it is time to leave. They go to bed, don't eat for several days, and happily die in their sleep. Happened to a relative of mine. She had no disease. But to listen to allopathic doctors, EVERYONE must die of some horrid advanced degenerative condition. Don't believe it.

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