I was re-reading Victoria Boutenko's book Green For LIfe and started to think about what she has to say concerning hydrochloric acid and am wondering if I am deficient. While hopping around the net, I came across an article that stated that having enough hydrochloric acid in the stomach is about the MOST important dietary consideration that we can make. It speaks of how the knowledge of the importance of hydrochloric acid has been available for more than 30 years and then ends in saying that in the future we will all participate in the Health Crimes Trials of the Twentieth Century!

I ordered a bottle yesterday and plan to check mine in the way that the participants in Victoria's experiment checked theirs. I eat lots of greens, but maybe still not enough. I do have some of the symptoms that she lists on her chart for low hydrochloric acid ( hypochlorhydria). Plus I'm 55 yrs. old and may not be making the amount that I made in younger years. Plus then there was that 6 year bout with alcoholism - THAT COULDN'T HAVE HELPED!

Anyhoo - I'm curious about all you rawies out there. Have you checked yours?

Life Is Good!

alive!

you ordered a bottle of what exactly?
i've heard that starting the day with a glass of lemon water helps to start your digestive fire (increases hydrochloric acid).

um, no

um, yes!!!!!!!

just kidding. no I haven't. I eat a fair amount of greens so I imagine I'm ok.

If people are having troubles digesting greens, there are a couple of things that can help.

First is look at food combining. In general, if you are having troubles with digestion: bloating, gas, indigestion, etc, practice good food combining all these digestive issues will be history.

Another issue with greens is that the particular greens you are eating may have too much cellulose in them, as they may have been meant to be cooked rather than eaten raw. Greens that are easy to digest in their raw state are lettuces, celery, spinach. Dark leafy greens like kale and collard and the cruciferous vegetables have more cellulose in them.

Just wondering, what are examples of the greens with too much cellulose?

Thanks,
Ian.

kale, collar and cruciferous vegetables like bryan said. funny, those are all the ones that i've never liked raw. i enjoy broccoli and cauliflower marinated but just plain raw is yech. and kale, well, i never even liked that cooked! i can eat pounds of tender greens though, absolute bushels.

I love swiss chard.. I guess that's considered a tender green and easy digest. Yes, no, maybe?

Sorry to be so vague. What I meant was that I ordered a bottle of hydrochloric acid (tablets or capsules - I don't remember). The way that they tested for low hcl in the Green For Life study was to take one tablet with a meal. If this caused heartburn, then that was an indicator of adequate hcl. If not - then the person was to take 2 tablets at the next meal, if no heartburn, then take three with the next meal - up to 4 tablets. Those who had a reaction to one tablet were dropped from the study. There were only 2 people in the group who were considered to have adequate hcl.

After 30 days of drinking a quart of green smoothies per day, the participants were retested. It wasn't your thorough scientific study by any stretch. There is one being done in ST. Petersburg at this time.

The reason that I bring all this up is that I've noticed so many people who post here mention so many foods that they have to stay away from for various digestive reasons. I can't help but wonder if we all need to take a look at our hcl level- seems like if our bodies are designed for raw foods that we ought to be able to digest them more easily.

Here are some of the symptoms that I have that indicate a possible low level:

Bloating after meals
Dry mouth
Occasional heartburn
Nauseous after taking supplements
Dilated blood vessels in the cheeks and nose (could have been the alcohol)
Some hair loss
Occasional undigested food in the stools

I don't have any of these symptoms to a great degree except for the bloating after meals and maybe like Bryan said - that could be food combining issues. But, it's such an important issue - from what I'm reading, that I feel like I should look into it for myself and mention it to all of you.

Arugula - you're such a great researcher - whad da ya think?


Life Is Good

alive!

Alive! you mentioned all this in connection with eating vegetables. But it's not clear to me what you mean by this. Isn't hydrochloric acid necessary to break down most foods, or all foods? Or is it only or mainly the amino acids in vegetables? Surely this is not it. Other foods have tons of amino acids too. Nuts and seeds. I'm interested but don't understand. Can you clarify this please?



This way is not compatible with Zen practice. This way IS Zen practice. - Dr. Doug Graham

Nothing whatsoever should be attached to. - Buddha

What I meant was that I have noticed lots of posts on our raw/living site from people stating that they have to stay away from certain foods - nuts, or maybe roots or perhaps onions, etc.

Yes, we need hydrochloric acid to digest any and all foods. If we don't have enough, we can expect disease process to begin. At least that's what I'm understanding. When I first read Green For Life - I was all geeked out about the idea of green smoothies. All my life I've read "eat more greens, eat more greens". I've NEVER read "eat less greens"!!! So I was pretty excited and I kind of just skimmed over the hcl issue. But now I'm realizing the experiment was about seeing if an increase in greens would bring up the hcl levels in the participants. I guess I'm just saying that this is a bigger issue than I realized. Does that clarify?

I am not in agreement that low HCL is the cause of those symptoms. There are other reasons why those systems may occur. For example:

Bloating after meals: bad food combining
Dry mouth: using salt (miso, shoyu, seaweed, etc), not enough water based foods
Occasional heartburn: bad food combining
Nauseous after taking supplements: supplements can be toxic to some.
Dilated blood vessels in the cheeks and nose (could have been the alcohol): Agreed!
Some hair loss: This is a common detox symptoms, but hair comes back
Occasional undigested food in the stools: not enough chewing

Victoria Boutenko just recently realized that high fat wasn't a good thing, with the advent of her green smoothies. While this was an enormous revelation for her, other raw proponents have been saying to high fat raw foods are unhealthful and is a reason why a lot of people fail. Even a newbie like Fred Patenaude wrote about this years before Boutenko had her epiphany. Of course, Fred learned this from Doug.

Boutenko is the most recent to move away from high fat. Still in the high fat camp is Nison, Cousens, Wolfe, Cohen. Clements has moved away from high fat raw, but now uses cooked instead.

Alive,

I read the book too, took the hydrochloric acid as directed because in her book Boutenko mentioned that skinny people may be deficient in hydrochloric acid and I'm worried about getting too skinny - and because it helps destroy parasites (as per Hulda Clarke). I also find it stops that bit of nausea I get from certain green smoothies.

But earlier today I read on a link that Bryan posted about food combining that taking extra hydrochloric acid would stop your body from producing it's own and it was a very bad idea.

I may still use it occasionally for a while but only if my stomach feels like it needs a boost.

Dulset, and all those who replied, thank you.

It's been a few weeks since I posted and I received my hydrochloric tablets and have started taking them. I took 1 tablet with meals and no heartburn, 2 - no heartburn, 3 - ditto and so today I will start with 4 tablets per meal.

I have had a hard decision to make in terms of whether this is the right thing for me to do.

I will say, that I consume at least a pound of greens per day. It's kind of a joke around our family - me and my "leaves". So, my intake of greens is more than the greens that Victoria Boutenko used in her little study. I have been consuming this amount of greens for close to a year, and yet it appears that my hydrochloric acid must be low.

I will also say that some of the symptoms are quite bothersome - especially the gas and bloating (painful and not very "socially acceptable".

I realize that by taking these tablets, it could cause me to stop producing hcl, but I'm thinking that I may have already stopped producing it or at least have a severely diminished ability (again - maybe from the years of alcohol abuse).

From the reading that I've been doing, the consequences of not having enough hcl look a lot scarier than having to supplement the hcl.

Even though I haven't reached the point where the hcl tablets are causing heartburn for me, I'm already enjoying the benefits. I used to feel like I had a pretty flat stomach in the morning, but by night time I felt like I'd swallowed a basketball sometime during the day (no overeating involved). Now I feel good and don't get that blown up gas and pressure. I also don't get tired after a meal.
My skin seems to be looking better.

I've read that many, many people who have chronic heartburn or "reflux", actually have too little hydrochloric acid and are being treated in the exact opposite way!

I have worked very hard to get to where I am (haven't we all?). I will keep you all posted on how this turns out for me. I don't like the idea of eating all these beautiful healthy foods and yet not reap the benefits because of faulty hcl production.

Life Is Good!

alive!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2007 10:11PM by alive!.