Not that I particularly doubted the wisdom of his experience- I was just VERY skeptical. The idea of bodybuilding on fruit alone is just... SURREAL.

I havnt done much weight lifting since going raw- then recently suddenly felt that urge for hard work-outs again. I got back into it with no loss of strength- no strength loss after 10 months!! It was so easy & enjoyable. And then I wasn't even sore the next day! On the bodybuilding diet I'd always be sore for 3 days.

For the first time ever I ate only fruit after my workouts, I can't believe I'm actually doing this. No protein cravings, no algae, no greens.

Best workouts ever!!

So thank you, Frutarian One, for relentlessly drilling into our heads the lessons on fruitarian fitness!!!

xo
Sunshine



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2007 01:06AM by sunshine79.

Agreed.Well Put!!

I'm starting BBing again too.

Besta luck!!

See you at the top!!

There is no question that this works in the short run. Even drinking just water after workout will be fine. The main issue is the long term effect of a fruitarian diet. The body will slowly starves for some nutrients, this may be unnoticeable for years but when it does it is too late.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2007 10:46AM by djatchi.

Too late for what? LOL. Too late to be happy for many, many years? Ha! ha! (Just kidding). If you don't want to eat fruit - then eat what YOU think are the highest foods. You'll get my 100% support.

-David Z. Mason

I eat fruit, a lot of fruits but I cannot ignore the evidence and eat only fruit.
Here is a quote from [www.beyondveg.com] on a near fruitarian.

Quote

Although the following is just speculation, and there may certainly have been other potentially causative factors, it is worth considering that the relatively early death of near-fruitarian advocate T.C. Fry at age 70 recently--from atherosclerotic plaques in his legs that led to a coronary embolism--might possibly have been due at least in part to hyperinsulinism, which can promote atherosclerosis and heart disease. See Chet Day's investigative article, "The Life & Times of T.C. Fry" [www.chetday.com] at the Health & Beyond website for more on Fry's life and the events leading up to his death. Caveat: You will need the helper app Adobe Acrobat Reader for your web browser to read the PDF file that you'll be served up while online.)

[www.chetday.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2007 03:24PM by djatchi.

Erm, "Evidence"!? Are you sure you didn't mean "Speculation"? I've no problem ignoring speculation. There certainly doesn't seem to be any evidence in your quote. I'll take a look at Chet Day's article sometime and see what "evidence" he has (although I don't like PDFs, maybe it's in text format somewhere).

The "early death", at age 70? 70 seems a pretty average age for a guy to die in this day and age, there is nothing wrong with living to 70. I'm never sure why so many raw foodies seem caught up in living to 100... but that's another rant.

Cheers,
Ian.

The issue is not that he died at 70, the issue is that he was very ill. There is no known case of long living fruitarian.

Ian,
He was a raw food guru who was highly very respected, and there were (and are) hundreds, maybe thousands of people following his teachings about diet. That he died of severe heart problems with plaque-clogged artieries, as well as brown rotting teeth and many other serious health conditions-- is this not evidence? What kind of evidence would you need? Have you read the evidence? It's very compelling. I'm guessing you have not read about what happened to him.

If Gabriel Cousens or Doug Graham were in that kind of physical shape, wouldn't you consider it evidence that the diet they recommend is nutrient-deficient?

It's well known by those who have experimented with it, that most people have BIG problems with a strictly fruitarian diet after a certain amount of time. The evidence is overwhelming if you are open to it.

What happened to one person is not conclusive evidence of how a diet will effect and entire population, it is just speculation. If we have 50 such cases to study, then we could start to do more than speculate.

While T.C. Fry managed to live to a reasonable age, his condition does seem to indicate that he either had a pre-existing condition(s) or didn't take care of some aspect of this life. The teeth are kind of key to that, does anybody know how often he visited a dentist in the last 20years of his life? Take a look at this article examining the link between gingivitis and artery-clogging plaque which can lead to heart problems:
[www.deltadentalil.com]

Here's another possibility. TC was a living a fairly health life, without processed sugars and foods. This led him to neglect dental visits (I do as well unless my teeth hurt), this let to a build up of gingivitis (and the bad teeth people meantioned), which untreated by a dentist leads to plaque-clogged artieries and then severe heart problems. This of course is speculation, just like what other are doing, but I think this fits fairly well.

Disclaimer: I don't like or dislike T.C. Fry. I do not like or dislike the fruitarian diet. I do care that speculation is being used as evidence.

Kwan, can you provide some links to a 100+ person study of fruitarianism?

Thanks,
Ian.

-When a cooked food culture (as seems to be the pre-dominant culture almost 99.9% of the time).....says that there are no long-term successful raw foodists or fruit-only folks......this is certainly NOT surprising! Ha! ha! Especially since it is my understanding that this particular cooked food culture has dominated the world-scene and it's education and development for at least 10,000 years! Ha! ha!

-Still, individuals do not lack the ability to test and find out for themselves. I encourage you to share what has worked for YOU! LOL. What HAS worked for you Kwan? What has worked for you DJ? THAT's what I want to hear....get excited about....and support 100%! LOL. You bet!

-What do YOU want to get excited about and support? Simply choosing NOT to vote for a negative/poor candidate is a rather passive form of voting indeed!

-David Z. Mason

A fruitarian diet destroyed my health back about 4-5 years ago. I am certainly not an advocate of that lifestyle. If anyone has ever read Tom Billing's page and his story of fruitarianism, my experience pretty much mirrored his. I became so overstimulated with "energy" (which was a severe nervous system imbalance), that it was difficult to sleep, sit still, retain information, or even interact with people. I was too spaced out. This is what happens when you are too yin. Also, show me a fruitarian and I will show you someone with AWFUL teeth, in every single case, no exceptions. My teeth rotted and even became transparent when I was a fruitarian.

Green vegetables are the balancing factor. Today's fruit is too rich in sugars and devoid of minerals to be our only food source. Greens balance.

Best,
Mark

I thought that being spaced out is the tell sign of too much fat in one's diet.

Gosia


RawGosia channel
RawGosia streams

Mark,

could you explain more how your diet differs than Billings' fruitarian period?

Isn't there another issue of always consuming cold/damp energy foods on 8/1/1 if salt, seaweeds, onions, dehdrated flax etc.. are also shunned...in regards to extreme alkalinity?

"fruit" doesn't necessarily mean sweet fruit. Peppers, cucumbers, and squash are all fruits & won't rot your teeth.

my teeth are fine, its my spleen i'm concerned about. Sweet fruit is what is emphasized in 8/1/1 and so far I haven't read of anyone making mono meals of squash...

I eat arugala and other dark/spicy leafy greens, and try to include tomatoes and peppers regularly. I juice around 2 lbs (or more) of veges a day, and I save some of the pulp for a blended salad later with romaine (for extra fiber I suppose, plus my juicer ain't great and the pulp seems to still maintain alot of its color/nutrients)

although, all these practices are still highly alkalizing...

An excellent book to learn about the life and death of T.C. Fry is "Errors in Hygiene?!!?" by Dr Vivian Virginia Vetrano. Towards the end of Fry's life, his partner gave him the ultimatum, "either raw foods or me". He chose his partner over raw foods. so he had been eating cooked foods at the end of his life.

At 45, Fry was told by his doctors that he would be lucky to make it to 46. At this point, he found raw and Natural Hygiene. He was so excited by his discovery that he wanted to share this with the world. He was an entrepreneur and he set out to educate people on how they could heal themselves on raw foods.

While Natural Hygiene was telling people to eat raw fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds, Fry only ate fruits. Dr Vetrano said that if had just included a little bit of nuts, his health would have been better.

His life in was always a stressful one. He was never financially successful and he loved his women. I think he was married 3 times and had kids to support, and his business ventures never took off. To make matters worse, one of these women shot Fry in his later years, so he was always dealing with that injury. Also, he was a chronic overeater. Was it that he was eating fruit only, or were there emotional issues at play?

Before he got sick, he started eat cooked foods again. And when he did get sick, he opted to get blood ozone therapy, which made him even worse. This put him into the hospital, and shortly after that he died.

So he didn't live a hygienic life for much of his later years. Under a lot of financial stress. Worries about supporting so kids/ex-wives/wife. Who knows what other healthful habits we wasn't practicing besides not eating raw.

Anyway, he lived to 72. At 45, his doctors only gave him a year to live. Not bad, adding an extra 26 years to one's life by eating only fruit.

yeah, people are always going to avoid 'details' like that. Still there must be a reason you opt not to eat strictly fruit. Does it mention if he was using the botanicaly deffinetion (eating lots of avacados etc..) or if sweet fruit was emphasized.

Bryan are any of those issues I mentioned: extreme alkalinity or cold/damp energy addressed for you with your diet? or do you consider them to be like non-sequitur lore?

Hi marksquire,

How do you eat now, and has your dental health improved?

Thanks.

Well, that's where herbs come in handy..
Cloves: dental health, and anti parasite.., absinth anti parasite these herbs, while should not be used permanently in large doses, one should NOT ignore herbs, if he is not aware what is poisoning him/her..
if I can heal more safely by taking herbs, that help to stop parasites from growing inside our mouth i sure will, until i can afford to remove all teeth fillings, that poison my body.

I definitely agree with Brian and fact, that people IGNORE such a SMALL fact as that he lived 26 Years PAST his medically examined "death"

And fact of Stress in life is also ignored when one wants to argue against fruit only diet..

It's like saying that person having cancer, switching to DIFFERENT diet.. instead for people to be glad for diet to prolong life, they blame the diet for "killing" a person.

Many argue how prolonging pain through diet makes NO SENSE..
i DO agree that LIFE in PAIN makes a LITTLE sense, yet goal of diet is to HEAL not to Prolong suffering.

Eh, so little understanding and so much arguing about what one should do, what makes sense.. if somebody NEVER have tried to understand how human body works(...)

Free, Open source.Healthy
F.E.A.R. is
an acronym that stands for, False Evidence Appearing Real
F.A.I.T.H. - the First Attribute IN Thoughtful
Health

A single failure from one fruitrarian may not be a strong evidence against long term success on a fruitarian diet and emotional issues may play a big role in a person death. But living an additional 26 years IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH when somebody is on a raw and clean diet. Every cell in the body can be regenerated every seven years. We become a new person. This guy was very sick.

You seem to have rather high expectations of raw!!!!! It seems the guy was dying, one year to live before raw, then he lived 20 odd years longer than he was told, until he stopped eating raw then he died, and you say "NOT GOOD ENOUGH"...

Please, tell us what is good enough djatchi?

Thanks,
Ian.

Norman Walker was good enough
Ann Wigmore was good enough.
They all had serious health problem and went raw and that changed everything for them. They lived healthy until their death.

I wouldn't exactly call the stuff on beyondveg.com evidence.

I have been eating mostly Fruit for the past few months but like most I eat leafy greens because of the abundence of nutrients and chlorapyll.

Phil.

--------------------------------------------------

"Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it" (Chinese Proverb)

People get WAY too technical with their definitions of things. For example, the people who use the botanical classification for fruits and vegetables. I'm sorry, but a cucumber is a vegetable. Always has been, always will be. It's funny, some people will call a tomato a fruit, but who ever calls a Pineapple a vegetable?!? Botanically, it is!! So, botanical classifications are ridiculous. Fruits have sugar in them, taste sweet, and are water rich and delicious. Also, being a fruitarian is eating nothing but FRUIT. No green leafy vegetables. If you eat leafy greens, you are eating vegetation, and therefore, are not a FRUITARIAN. If you eat fruit and greens, you are a raw food vegan. It drives me up the wall, that some people try to get cutesy and use textbook definitions, rather than real world, everyday definitions that we're all familiar with.

Technically, I can accept someone who doesn't eat any greens to say they are fruitarian, if they eat tomatoes, sqaush, cucumbers, etc. Either way, it's not healthy. A true fruitarian diet is a one way ticket to illness.

Tom Billings web site..... sure, not the most accurate, scientific information out there, but anyone who has been a true fruitarian for some time will experience the symptoms he did. I don't care who you are, they're inevitable. I've experienced it myself, and spoken to enough other people who have, to understand how the process works. Leafy greens are needed for balance. Maybe they weren't necessary when man first evolved on this planet, but they certainly are necessary these days, with the fruit as sugary and low mineral as it is.

We surely don't have to resort to Maca, Goji Berries, Cacao, Thor's Protein Powder, and other nonsense like that to make a raw vegan diet work. It's pretty simple. Eat enough fruit to meet your calorie needs, and get roughly 5% of your calories from greens, preferably in juice form (especially if you're an athlete and you eat as much as I do). It's that simple.

In my opinion, there is no need for 5,000 raw food books, web sites, and as many discussion boards as there are. Our ideal diet is so simple, it's like learning how to ride a bike. Health is easy. Life, on the other hand, is not.

Best,
Mark

Isn't the pineapple technically a berry? I'm not sure where you are getting information saying the pineapple is a vegetable, care to share?

Cucumbers and tomato are still fruit, sorry, not much you can do about that.

So, you're saying that we shouldn't be so strict in our definition of fruits/plants, but should be very strict in the our definition of fruitarian? Why?

Thanks,
Ian.

Labels make me uncomfortable. The way I eat today, might not work so well for me tomorrow. I don't want to be committed, or to not be open to anything that will work better.

Seems to me that most people who are successful on this board have been through many different experiences. Discarding some things, keeping others, and eventually finding the thing that works best for them personally. And even after all that, those very things might not work at all for the next person.

So, fruitarian, high raw, low fat, high fat, vegan, not vegan, partly raw - whatever, what difference does it make - personally, I fully support anyone doing any of the above, as long as it is working for them.

Besides, even if someone could prove a pineapple was neither a fruit or a vegetable - would you stop eating them? I wouldn't.

Ian,

Write to me without the disrespect, and I'll be more than happy to have a discussion with you.

Best,
Mark

kwan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ian,
> He was a raw food guru who was highly very
> respected, and there were (and are) hundreds,
> maybe thousands of people following his teachings
> about diet. That he died of severe heart problems
> with plaque-clogged artieries, as well as brown
> rotting teeth and many other serious health
> conditions-- is this not evidence? What kind of
> evidence would you need? Have you read the
> evidence? It's very compelling. I'm guessing you
> have not read about what happened to him.

I agree that this is an anecdotal case and you can't judge on one case. But I am sure we have all heard several shocking stories about fruitarianism. It is at that point that common sense should kick in. Even if you don't believe the evidence against fruitarianism, you can't honestly say that there is evidence that fruitarianism provides any greater benefits than a healthy raw vegan diet.

I think about the cause and effect. If something causes womething else, then we must expect that we observe the expected effect each time we apply the cause. If you place your finger in a fire, it will hurt each time, without exception. So, if the strict fruitarianism we hurtful, why is it that there exist strict fruitarians who apparently are doing just fine? Me wonders.

Gosia


RawGosia channel
RawGosia streams

rawgosia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think about the cause and effect. If something
> causes womething else, then we must expect that we
> observe the expected effect each time we apply the
> cause. If you place your finger in a fire, it will
> hurt each time, without exception. So, if the
> strict fruitarianism we hurtful, why is it that
> there exist strict fruitarians who apparently are
> doing just fine? Me wonders.
>
> Gosia

The effect can take time to manifest itself. People have been in car accident without feeling hurt and only after months even years they realise that there was a problem associated with the accident.