To me, I just don’t understand whats so taboo about the issue of calories or why its set in stone that if you don’t eat a huge amount of calories from sweet fruit that your diet is somehow fraudulent. Personally I haven’t made up my mind. I was thriving on my diet, but the more I learned about the amount of fat I was eating..probably more like 40% than 60% since I would usually do a mono meal of non sweet fruit per day also and get more calories from greens then is suggested in 8/1/1…the more I have been trying to shift to something closely resembling 811.

To me it just seems all out odd that those who discount science in certain arguments are quick to buy the entire body of knowledge that comes out of conventional science alone as Doug states he simply compiled what was already out there.

Quick to discount the following:

There were many civilizations prior to our own that ate locally and ate very limited calorie diets and had very lean muscular bodies. (the argument is also made that fruit is the biological food for man (probably true) but discount the fact that certain artificail means like juicing have any benefit at our current state)

There are people who though juicing and colonics have cleansed their body to such a degree that they return to their natural weight independent of what they are eating

There are people who have fasted on/lived off things like goji teas ( not that I am in any way an advocated of exotic superfoods)

I am not a believer in the idea of superfoods, or in taking supplements


People quote that 811 frees them of supplements. Isn’t this just the philosophy of 811 alone that supplements are worthless? Does one need to practice it to have that philosophy? To me figuring out the logistics of 811, how to get all that volume of food inside my house and my body, proves to be a dramatic and almost all encompassing task. Fit in high intensity exercise (which I would do anyway) but for the average person that is a complete health and fitness <i>lifestyle</i>. Whereas eating avocado salads and occasional nuts/seeds or raw treats (which I was never fond of incorporating) and juicing fits pretty snuggly into an existing lifestyle, especially if you live in the north east.

To me, just the logistisics is an issue. What if you don’t have a car and you get around by bicycle. All the bananas this year are at least 1 week unripe in the store.

What if the entire crop of tropical fruit somehow fails do to massive climate shifts 10 years down the line and your body somehow cannot assimilate larger amounts of fats or other substances if that is what is necessary to get ‘calories’?

What if someone frames you for a murder, and when they investigate your house all they find is boxes of bananas, and when you have your hearing the prosecutor says listen, the defendant only eats bananas, and you go off the the pysch ward or prison without your bananas, and probably with a nice innouculation as well.

for me, getting into raw foods was a very human and not just a health choice, it came from transitioning from veganism not a desire to lose weight from a compulsive SAD. Raw foods had a human component then decreed you would eat the minimum that you needed not be dependant on recieveing your crate of fruit that our cushy capitalist lifestyle provides. my notion of raw foodism also involved dicussing ALL common accepted notions and practices of health. I don’t deny that Doug Graham’s ideas are not sound scientifically. That being said it comes strait out of a science/MD/nutrion and performance mentality. If this is not a visible component on this board it might as well be vegsource II.

Doug Graham's ideas come straight out of an MD mentality?
Really?

Love,
Uma

well I would say yes in the same way that Cousens has never really shaked his MD.

it in no way resembles what MDs would advise true. He sees a greater truth about how the human body generally functions. To me its still kind of like treating a person as a biological machine that takes in fuel.

but it was probably incorrect how I used it.

I think its just kind of a drag that this board has become sort of 1 track oriented. I guess its a good thing to be excited by simplicity. It just seems like many people are demonized here if they eat dulse or something.

anaken, I see your point. Let me share my views. Personally I would not like to follow any rigid rules. I do not count calories, I eat when hungry. I listen to my body and learn from my observations, I learn and am open to change. It just happenned that I discovered that I am naturally drawn to fruit, and observed that I eat far less fat than at the start of my journey. I also observed that my observations are similar to those of many of my raw food pears.

I observe that I feel better and better as my diet evolves, and I read it as my diet evolving to a better and better one. So yes, I do believe that more fruit and less fat is healthier. Nevertheless, to me it is a spontaneous outcome that I observed rather than a goal that I tried to achieve.

I believe that being rigid in one's approach to diet can lead to a failure. Conversely, spontaneous, natural transition leads to success. Why suffer, anyway, when raw food journey can be a pleasurable experience?

"What if someone frames you for a murder, and when they investigate your house all they find is boxes of bananas, and when you have your hearing the prosecutor says listen, the defendant only eats bananas, and you go off the the pysch ward or prison without your bananas, and probably with a nice innouculation as well."

Ha ha ha. My office is full of fruit and I still got my job.


Gosia


PS The reason so many people feel drawn to Doug's approach is because they feel best while eating that way. Humans have frugivorous origin, and it makes sense to me that a diet plentiful in fruit appeals to them.


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rawgosia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe that being rigid in one's approach to
> diet can lead to a failure. Conversely,
> spontaneous, natural transition leads to success.
> Why suffer, anyway, when raw food journey can be a
> pleasurable experience?
>
> PS The reason so many people feel drawn to Doug's
> approach is because they feel best while eating
> that way. Humans have frugivorous origin, and it
> makes sense to me that a diet plentiful in fruit
> appeals to them.

AGREED to the first part. I am trying not to get into the mindset where I feel I have to be 100% anything, be in vegetarian, vegan or raw. Human beings have survived so well because we are adaptable and I don't want to place myself firmly in the Darwin Awards by getting orthorexia! Raw IS pleasurable which is why I try and follow it as much as possible but if I am in a restaurant, I won't even stress about it. I think it might be the one weight loss method I can stick to because I don't have to stress about the foods as well as my appearance.

As for the second point, sure human beings have frugivourous origins but what exactly do you mean by origin? Evolution would take us back to the apes (who actually eat insects and whatever nuts they can get at in the wild. But we AREN't the same as gorillas and chimps and perhaps the differences in diet play a part in that. Plus, thet say birds evolved from dinosaurs and some dinosaurs were herbivorous and some weren't and it is the same with modern birds.

Evolutionary the human body has not changed much since the last couple thousands of years. Therefore, whatever humans ate thousands of years ago, is what we are still structured and designed to eat. Before, tools, fire, and cookery.

However, in a survival situation humans will eat whatever is available to
survive. When it comes to survival we are omnivores. Our greatest trait. Since most of us aren't struggling to survive being closer to our natural diet equals health. Most people move from being omnivores to herbivores than to frugivores because they can sense better health and wellbeing.

Some Human cultures still eat insects (which are healthier than animals) and we are very similar to our close primates. We share more similarities with them than differences.

No system has ever as yet existed which did not in some form involve the exploitation of some human beings for the advantage of others. John Dewey 1921.

SiennaInLondon, I mean that humans are directly derived from fruigivorous primates.

But, I would have never cared about that fact, if I had not discovered that my body has a natural preference for fruit and started wondering why this could be so.

Gosia


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Oh dear?! I HATE fruit! Always have done. Wonder what is wrong with me. I'll eat any vegetable on Earth but fruit is just.... Maybe I am not designed for raw? Maybe I have psychological dependences. Are you sure you enjoy food? Or is it a case of your body preferring food? I can't help but think of my taste buds too!

Anaken,


Dont worry the climate shift is going in the direction of more tropical fruits not less .

Cherimoya

Love Peace and Happiness,

Yes, I enjoy the foods AND my body prefers them too, these two do go together for me. Don't worry. Eating foods that you love, within the raw foods range, is a perfect way to be. As you go, you may notice your preferences change. No need to force yourself to eat something you hate. But I would recommend that from time to time you taste different foods and see whether you might possibly like those that you thought you did not like. I like doing this too, it's fun.


Gosia


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