can these be part of the 811 diet or are they considered a starch?

fully ripe and black..i asked on vegsource and no one replied?

These seem to be one this that stopd my cravings for grains!!!

They are a starch until they get totally black and then the starch may turn to sugar (if you are lucky).

I've been reading your food journal. You are not eating enough sweet fruit. You are eating way too much fat. It may seem like a lot of fruit (my recommendations) to you, but given your exercise level, which to me looks like 2-3 hours of running-like exercise, the exercise alone could be 18 bananas by itself. If your ideal weight is 130, you ought to eat:

130lb * 10cal/lb + 600 cals(normal daily activities) + 1800(from exercise) = 3700 calories. This means you ought to have 4 meals a day of 9 bananas.

Your food craving will go away if you buy a case (40 lbs of bananas, about 80 medium bananas) of bananas every 3 days and make sure you finish the case every 3 days.

I highly suggest you try, at least for a week to have the experience, eating only bananas (4 meals of 9 medium bananas) and see if your desire for grains and fats dissappear. If you eat only bananas like I suggest (and make sure they are heavily frecked and sweet, not starchy), you will find that your digestion and gas problems go away, your craving will go away. Please, have your experience of this rather than letting your mind talk you out of this.

If this seems like too much bananas, then I would suggest you follow argula's advice, and incoporate cooked starchy root vegetables into your diet to get your 3700 calories a day.

thanx bry!!

I do buy bananas by the box 40 pounds...I have an organic box ripening right now!

I will give this a shot once ripened...

I will also add banana/celery smoothie - for the sodium

on average i
run 3 days a week
spin 2-3 times a week
lift weights 3 times a week

I plan on doing my 5th fast (juice) at the end of the month - longes I've gone was 13 days...
What do you think should I?

I thoght bananas backed you up??

thanx bry!!

I do buy bananas by the box 40 pounds...I have an organic box ripening right now!

I will give this a shot once ripened...

I will also add banana/celery smoothie - for the sodium

on average i
run 3 days a week
spin 2-3 times a week
lift weights 3 times a week

I plan on doing my 5th fast (juice) at the end of the month - longes I've gone was 13 days...
What do you think should I?

I thoght bananas backed you up??

rawrnr,

During this experiment, it is very important that you don't make smoothies with your bananas. From my experience of green smoothies, they create an appetite for more food and thus results in less satisfaction than eating the whole foods by themselves.

So to get your celery intake, eat the whole bananas until you are nearly full. Then, after finshing the bananas, eat the whole celery plain until you are full of celery. Or better yet, plan to have a celery only meal during the day (this could be your 5th meal of the day).

Eating the food whole and alone will give you the feeling of satiation that you are so desperately looking for. If you make smoothies or combine foods, you will not find or experience the satiation that others are experiencing on the raw diet.

rawrnr,

Nearly 2 years ago I wrote about my experience with green smoothies. My food and fat consumption went up with the green smoothies over eating whole foods. Again, you are looking for satiation, so I recommend no smoothies as they inhibit satiation. Whole foods will give this to you, and a whole lot more. I am excited that you are willing to experiment with this to see if it make a difference.

rawrnr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> can these be part of the 811 diet or are they
> considered a starch?
>
> fully ripe and black..


Plantains can be enjoyed ripe while they are still yellow, before they turn black.

Wishing you vibrant health





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2007 03:38AM by Pistachio.

I agree with the satiation/smoothies statement. Pureeing/blending breaks down the tough fibers and makes it easier to overconsume without the feeling of fullness that the full fibers would impart.

IMO a good way to use pureeing or blending as an implement not to be abused would be for greens only (or greens plus a minimal amount of other to make them more palatable) because it can help one to incorporate more minerals in the diet, if that is a goal. This is different from what Boutenko is promoting as her recipes are more like 90-95% other, 5-10% greens.

But often I wonder if we really need that many greens and if we really need to go to such lengths to get more of them since they are so low in kcals. Not that I don't doubt that some people are doing find without them, but would they do better with more and at what point are there diminishing returns? I confess I don't know the answers but I suspect that 6% is better than 2% but 10% is too much.

Also I should clarify, my def of greens is leaves. The green nonleaf vegetables are somewhat less mineral-rich.

Quote

I plan on doing my 5th fast (juice) at the end of the month - longes I've gone was 13 days...
What do you think should I?

I thoght bananas backed you up??

Try the one week of mono eating bananas. If you find this works for you, just continue eating this way. Your weight will come down to normal. Once you learn how to satiate yourself, you can add some variety in, and try pushing the edge. I am hoping this experience will give you the tools you need to find and experience deep satiation in your raw foods. And as you are exploring more and more variety, you will have a safe place to fall back on when you feel the satiation disappearing on you.

Given that you are currently experiencing a lack of peace around your diet, I would not recommend fasting at this time until you can find some balance in your diet. Putting your body into a state of calorie reduction, given the strong feelings you have been experiencing recently, may cause more harm than benefit.

I would focus first on achieving satiation. After you're body feels like it is well nourished from an energy perspective, you then want to see about getting the nutrients increased in your diet. But first, find the satiation, the satisfaction, the peace. Then we can look at more minerals and other nutrients when you are feeling more at peace.

As for bananas backing you up, this has not been my experience in eating ripe heavily freckled and sweet bananas. When I used to eat starchy bananas with pure yellow skins, they didn't digest so well for me.

Thank you Brian for your wisdom.

I will try me hardest to do the banana mono week once my box of green bananas gets yelloy and VERY freckly.

I suggested smoothies wiht banana and celery because I HATE the taste of celery!! IN the smoothie its YUMMY - BUT I will try to eat it!!
I get how smoothies are difested very fast, thus causing hunger sooner...

You are right I am looking for that satiation feeling, the fullness in my belly, do you think the freezing weather, and lask of sun has anything to do with it?
(I live in Toronto, Canada)

I really want to get my weight down to 125pounds, does that mean the I need to eat 1250 calories a day? I think so...

SO a banana is about 100 calories = 11-12 bananas in ONE day???
I can eat this in one sitting I'm sure!!

I am so scared to fail...the think is I LOVE to eat!

The thought of eating only 2-3 times a day is not a good one...
I usually eat every 2-3 hours!!

OKOK

Banana's only - can I wrap them in Romaine to cut the suger back?

Bryan and others - I so much appreciate your guidance, especially since it is based on graham's theories...I have many of his books from a long time ago, I have his new book as well, but Bryan it seems that you knwo more about 811 than the books provide....do you know graham?

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!

rawrnr, I wish you all the best with this. Really ....

Bryan, a couple of weeks ago someone posted saying that she'd just finished a consultation with Doug Graham and he suggested she eat a lot of bananas. I forget the other details. Someone asked her if Graham routinely put people on banana diets. The answer was that Graham customizes his recommendations based on each person's circumstances. So I have a couple of questions.

1. Is this something that Graham often recommends? And if so, why?
2. What's the purpose of this banana + celery diet? To get satiated and to get most of the macronutrients?

It's interesting to me that you say that rawrnr should go for the satiation first, then increase attention on the nutrients.

I ask because I'm interested in this myself. I don't have any trouble getting that full feeling. I seldom want to stop even when that fullness arrives. Until I really stuff myself, I often don't want to stop.

One thing about bananas so freckled though. The bananas that I see here, by the time they're so freckled, I think they're usually pretty rotten inside. I have some now, pretty freckled, but I've frozen them so I don't know just how they are inside. I'll buy some tomorrow that have lots of dark spots.

Interesting.



This way is not compatible with Zen practice. This way IS Zen practice. - Dr. Doug Graham

Nothing whatsoever should be attached to. - Buddha

rawrnr,

At this point in your process,don't focus on weight loss. For your activity level, 1250 calories is too low. Just eat till satiation, and don't count calories so that you can reduce them, but only to make sure you are meeting your energy requirements. To maintain a weight of 125 pounds, without any exercise, it would take most people the following:

125lbs * 10 cal/lb + 600 (for basic activities) = 1850 calories.

If you walk an hour a day, add 300 cal/hr
If you run an hour a day, add 600 cal/hr.

The reason I know a bunch about 811 is I've been doing this for over 4 and a half years, and I have my experience to work from. I've met Dr Graham a few times because I've attended so many of his lectures/workshops, but I don't know him outside of that.

Again, focus on satiation and satisfaction, and for now let go of concerns around weight loss and forego gratification (which is only temporary and leads to more desire).

TroySantos,

I don't have time to answer your questions now, but I will attend to them tomorrow afternoon (California time).

Bryan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> rawrnr,
>

>
> 125lbs * 10 cal/lb + 600 (for basic activities) =
> 1850 calories.
>
> If you walk an hour a day, add 300 cal/hr
> If you run an hour a day, add 600 cal/hr.
>

I must be missing something. Is that important calories counting? What about a simpler cleaner diet and the next day your body will tell you if you are missing something. Very simple.

Quote

1. Is this something that Graham often recommends? And if so, why?

I don't know the answer to this question, as I have not had a personal consultation with Dr. Graham.

Quote

2. What's the purpose of this banana + celery diet? To get satiated and to get most of the macronutrients?

I want rawrnr to have an experience of being fully satiated on a very simple diet, just for one week. I suggested bananas only, rawrnr added in the celery, which I don't think is necessary, but I don't see how that will cause the satiation effect to go away if they are eaten in different meals.

rawrnr is having a difficult time with her raw diet. Also, there are some emotional issues at play with her relationship, which is causing her to eat for emotional reasons. I wanted to make sure that she was eating enough calories, because in many of her posts on her journal, she is concerned about losing weight right now. Her weight gain comes from her choices of foods, some of them being pretty high fat. And still, after eating all that fat, she is not satiated.

As for the bananas, what I described is how bananas work here in the US with the way they pick them super early in the maturation process. In asia, where the bananas may be picked later, the ripening process may be a little different. The bananas I eat, though they have heavily freckled skin, have perfectly white flesh and no bruises or no brown parts in the flesh.

On the bananas/freckling, my experience concurs with Bryan: here in the US, or in Europe, you need to have the bananas freckled in order for them to be ripe (because they're picked so green to begin with). But if you're getting bananas in a tropical place, or near a tropical place, they can be quite ripe whilst still yellow.

As for plantains, they really need to be black (in the same context that bananas must be freckled - probably in the tropics they can be yellower) and then they are wonderfully non-starchy, rich and sweet.



seeing is freeing
hearing is clearing
feeling is healing

My plaintains sit for about 7-10 days, they are BLACK I LOVE them!!!
I love to see seeds in them!!
Just like in bananas when I was a kid!!

Plaintains are great when ripe just cut the bad parts off eat as is or blend.

I dont blend much fruit but plaintains can be really messy to eat.

What Ela and Bryan said sounds like my experience with them over the years .

In South Florida they seem to give them away at the markets when they are black cheaper and better when ripe .

Cherimoya

Love Peace and Happiness,