As a beginner to raw veganism, I find many of the threads on this forum confusing. There seems to be lots of conflicting opinions, especially when people are discussing the ideas of the popular health gurus and books.

So I'm left wondering whether there are any raw vegan health principles that are widely accepted (by the people in this community at least). What are they?

What would be really great is if this forum had a sticky thread that summarised the main priciples / ideas of raw veganism and indicated which were widely supported and which are contentious. Perhaps it could contain links to existing threads that have already debated these ideas or maybe we could start fresh threads to discuss the ideas in the FAQ?

Does something like this already exist elsewhere?

If not, would one of the long time raw or experienced raw foodists like to have a go at this?

Gary

hi Gary! I am new at this but what i hear is 'LISTEN TO YOUR BODY".tHERE IS CONTROVERSY...between certain guru's.But what i see is there is different people and different systems and different bodies and I think to myself-be it right or wrong.If someone needs more high fat and less fruit-they can use cousens book.Maybe that fits there body system and needs.If they want fruit and low fat they would do the 811 diet.I think that all the raw foodist are not the same.some take vitamins and some not.some do this and some do that.some eat and use maple syrup and maybe some don't some think dates are good and some think it is junk food.this is what i am gathering in my almost month on this site.some still eat cooked foods.i think we are free to do what our bodies need for us .I try to pick the knowledgable peoples brains on this site cause they know so much.Maybe some day we will too and be able to pass on the info.this is what i have found out while being on this site.hope some how this helps.taylor

I think that by definition, most of the folks on this board support:

1) Increasing your intake of fresh, raw plant foods to a high percentage - according to YOUR goals and motivation, and that this is condusive to health.

-This is not very mysterious or confusing! Ha! ha! Don't you think?

-David Z. Mason

well-David! thanks!! that is pretty simple.taylor

Physically and intuitively, I know a fruitarian diet is not the best for me. I love veggies and most other vegan foods. I don't want to be bound to one species of food. I don't crave sweet fruit, like many here do, just in the morning, and sometimes for snacks. I crave and fantasize about large green salads, with non-fruit veggies. Sometimes, I wake up in the morning and crave first thing, a kale salad, with lemon and avocado. I don't have a real huge sweet tooth, and there is not a natural "pull" for me to be a fruitarin. So I KNOW, 811 is not best for me, will never be, no matter how passionalely anyone would like to push this on me. Low fat does not feel "right" to ME, and neither does high fat. Moderate fat does. This is how I feel my best and thrive. I'm my own test rat. I know better about myself, than anyone else. So I won't let anyone tie up my time with conflict of what they think is best for me. I already know.


Listen to your body and intuition. Don't listen to what someone else believes is best for them and others, like we all are the same. People get on "fruitier than thou", or "rawer than thou", and I just am at peace with what makes me happy. No compitition, just being at peace within. Listen to your heart. Sometimes that takes experimenting with diffent things though, to see what is best for you.

I learn what I can from this site, which is a treasure of knowledge that I'm grateful to learn, and some things make me roll my eyes, but to each their own.

Be confident in your own intuition or gut feelings of what is best for you.

Be well.

Taylor, Rawrrr!,

my body had been persistenly telling me to eat sugary foods, pizza etc. I think it doesn't have much of a clue!

Seriously though, I'm not sure I trust my intuition or cravings etc.

David,

yes - that is the sort of thing I mean. It is a heatlh priciple that most here would agree with. But there are lots of other principles I've read about about which I'm not so sure. Here are a few of them:

food combining
eat fruits in the morning
mono eating
811
avoid high gi fruits
consume only distilled or spring water
minimise overt fats
transition slowly
transition 100% over-night!
don't go 100%, stick at (say) 80%
avoid garlic and onions
avoid 'hybridised' fruit
green smoothies
drink fruit/veggie juices
drink smoothies
don't drink fruit/veggie juices!
don't eat too late
eat superfoods
take suppliments (especially B12)
drink lots of water
don't over eat
don't under eat
eat plent of greens



Gary

Hey Gary,

Yeah, I know...all this conflicting information. It's almost as bad, if not worse than in the SAD world. Remember the oatmeal kick? Then it was soy...now soy is bad, etc.

I understand about not trusting the intuition of your body. I could have devoured a Godiva chocolate bar this morning for breakfast, but instead I settled for an orange.

I think David Mason is likely the one most correct. I guess just experiment with different ideas, but the most important one is to get more raw period in to your diet. If you are an all or nothing kind of person, then jump in 100% with whatever 'diet method' you choose. If you like to transition slowly, then do it that way.

I'm still trying to figure out what works best for me without turning this in to a religion or an eating disorder. I just want to get to the point where eating raw is just the natural course and not something I think about. I'm not quite there yet. For some, that was easy, for others it is not.

Anyway...do green smoothies sound good to you? Do fruit smoothies in the morning? Do salads (with or without commercial dressing) sound decent? I think that's kind of what you'll have to do in the beginning in order to start retraining your body and your tastebuds to stop craving the darn pizza's and chocolate. Obviously, that can take a while for some people.

Okay, enough blah, blah, blah. There's gonna be conflict regarding the human diet. Just dive in and start playing with whatever seems to make sense to you. Just give it enough time. That's the hardest part for me. I'm kind of in to instant gratification.

Stormy

gary-i know...i have been going thru the same thing for a month.i figure in time i will get an idea of what to do.I don't really want to be in a controversy about what is best.I don't know what is best,yet.when everyone would tell me to listen to my body.I had never listened to my body.thats how i got into the shape i was in.very poor health.I was too busy tending everyone.so i too think"i am listening but don't hear anything".what i don't want to hear or feel is pain from being sick.that is my motivation.so i am very passive and willing to listen to these smater people on this site.i asked a few questions like u have. i asked"do raw foodist eat brewers yeast/".the answer was "well-aren't you one?"and some do and some don't.I bought gabriel cousens book-30$ cause i thought i was hearing this is what everyone went by.i then heard the 811 diet and then i was like uh oh! now i need to get that book.I decided this.i am trying to loose weight and i bought alot of un-cook books and read thru them.I see alot of nuts in the recipes so for me...my body says to me i can not partake of alot of nuts.maybe not at this point and maybe never.it will make me gain weight.so the 811 diet makes sense to me plus i love fruit so much.and it makes me feel good.I have been slowly trying to gather the info i can to have better health.to loose weight.to be an active person and change my old ways.so-yep! i sure know what you are going thru in acclimating to all the info.it make s your head swirl.you'll catch on-just try this and that.good luck and give yourself time.good luck! taylor

Sure Gary. I imagine that any discipline (like getting more exercise) will have to be researched and adapted by each individual.

-An individual might certainly be confused until they try one or more of the refinements you mentioned....to determine if it is a tool that might assist them. But I think the core is there. It seems that most folks have a challenge enough to consistent reach their fresh, raw plant food intake goals.....over a lifetime......with worrying too much about the refinements! Ha! ha! Priorities!

-David Z. Mason

>food combining
This seems to be for comfort more than anything else. I don't think it matters much in most cases.

>eat fruits in the morning
Again I think this is for digestive comfort. There isn't any reason I can see why we shouldn't take our flax in the AM, in fact it might be better so there is less competition for omega3 with omega6.

>mono eating
I am not buying this one, variety is protective. There is strength in diversity.

>811
Too spartan, 70-15-15 is easier, 60-15-25 even easier. Can't find evidence that 10% fat is truly superior for those who are not looking to reverse CHD.

>avoid high gi fruits
I don't buy it. GI shouldn't have much meaning when the meal is high in dietary fiber and whole foods are used. I don't care much for dried fruits, though.

>consume only distilled or spring water
Nope.

>minimise overt fats
I don't think a lot of fat has much to offer after EFA needs are met. Excess polyunsaturated fats just increase risk of oxidation. Saturated fats should be limited. Extra raw monounsaturated fats don't pose as much of a health risk but it remains to be shown just how bad they are.

>transition slowly
>transition 100% over-night!
>don't go 100%, stick at (say) 80%
Depends on what works best for the individual.

>avoid garlic and onions
If you like them, and they don't disagree with you, why?

>avoid 'hybridised' fruit
Impossible, you'd have to be a time traveler, or live in a very remote wild place to meet this one.

>green smoothies
Not as currently implemented. They should be 95% green, 5% other, rather than vice versa.

>drink fruit/veggie juices
OK if you have already met or plan to met your fiber need (probably 50 g or more) for the day.

>drink smoothies
As above.

>don't eat too late
OK if it doesn't affect your sleep.

>eat superfoods
Greens are superfoods.

>take suppliments (especially B12)
Too risky to not take it unless you periodically have your MMA levels checked. I don't discount the possibility that some people are mutants and have the ability to use what's in the lower GI tract. But this is probably not the case for the majority (vast majority?) of us.

>drink lots of water
You need enough.

>don't over eat
Excess bodyfat isn't good.

>don't under eat
You should eat enough to still menstruate if you are a premenopausal female, otherwise you greatly increase the risks for osteoporosis.

>eat plent of greens
There aren't any substitutes, so yes, with few exceptions. People who take in 3000 or more kcals from a variety of fruits including nonsweet ones might make it fine without them, though.

I think the non-sweet fruits such as cucumbers, peppers, and zucchini are never in dispute.

Craving & intuition are two different things... so Gary, your intuition tells you that eating a greasy pizza is good? You mean to tell me that you don't logically know the difference between cravings & common sense & intuition?

Hmmm, I won't let you run me into circles with you, trying to help, because that is your intention, I feel, for what ever reason.

If you seriously are that clueless, find a raw food guru, and do EXACTlY everything they say religously, like sacred grail.

I won't be clicking on this topic anymore.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/08/2007 04:24AM by Rawrrr!.

well- i can understand a newcomer...i have been here one month and i did not understand there was not a certain list of things to do and not do.that we had options...only i did not know what they were.you sort of want a guide so u don't have to ask too many stupid questions(not that garys were-he is very intelligent to put forth what all he has questions about-which arugula so wonderfully answered).u want a guideline to simplfy for u and u also don't want to hurt yourself by doing something wrong to your body.i myself got all the uncookbooks i could find,but was scared to try all the nut recipes cause of ruining my weight loss program.so now i am trying to do more simple things till i get the hang of it.and i have no doubt with garys brains-he will get the hang of it.i think just reading and seeing what everyone says and u will pick out what is best for u.good luck.taylor

Rawrrr!

> Craving & intuition are two different things... so Gary, your intuition tells you that eating a greasy pizza is good? You mean to tell me that you don't logically know the difference between cravings & common sense & intuition?

That was a joke I made about pizza and sugary food. The sign-post was the "Seriously though" (implying that what came before should not be taken seriously). It's probably my strange british humour that's the problem.

My knowledge tells me that eating sugary foods and pizza are bad, I don't need to intuit that since it is common knowledge. But my intuition does not tell me whether it is better to food-combine or to mono-eat etc. My intuition isn't that good. I'm hoping that I can use other people's experience to tell me which if any of these is worth pursuing.

> Hmmm, I won't let you run me into circles with you, trying to help, because that is your intention, I feel, for what ever reason.

I have no such intention. I do appreciate your opinion on this subject.

> If you seriously are that clueless, find a raw food guru, and do EXACTlY everything they say religously, like sacred grail.

Er, the whole point of my thread was to try to determine what (if anything) that the raw gurus say is agreed upon by members of this forum. Clearly I am not interested in following a guru blindly.

Thanks for the insult - I will now have to kick the cat to get that out of my system (that was another joke by the way).

> I won't be clicking on this topic anymore.

Sorry to hear that.

Gary

I think this thread is gradually veering away from my original question. What I originally asked for was for someone to volunteer to create a sticky FAQ type of thread (not this one) that would list the well-known raw-vegan food priciples and indicate which ones are generally accepted and which are disputed.

I wasn't really looking for a discussion about the principles themselves, but for a discussion about the sticky FAQ idea. I provided above a tiny sample of these principles not because I wanted to discuss them in detail here, but just to elaborate on the idea of the sticky FAQ.

It seems that some (Rawrrr! for example) have already objected to the idea and that's fine. I suppose that most experienced raw people would not need such a thing but maybe some of the beginners like me would benefit. My request is probably a tall order but you never know!

Opinions very welcome. Volunteers even more welcome!

Cheers,

Gary

Hey Gary

I think it's a great idea, but I think all the things you mentioned are disputed to some extent!

Rob

--
Rob Hull - Funky Raw
My blog: [www.rawrob.com]

Try to avoid directly taking adivce from other people or trying to directly copy what works others too much. It's good to explore this diet and try the things that are working for others, but much of the information you will be given will be tainted/biast and/or very specific to one persons situation, use the information but don't take it as lore.

Make it a life style rather than a tradisional "diet". You should be happy with your dietary choices, in fact you should be very happy! If your if happyness level isn't improving (or is getting worse), change somethings and see if it improves. For long term success, happiness is my ingreedent in all the recipes.

Success and failure are just the same illusion, left there to trick you. The true prize is the information that learned or gathered during the journey.

Cheers,
Ian.