For those of you who have/had eating disorders, do/did you find that raw helped your recovery or hindered it? I considered myself to be "in recovery," going on 5 years, but then I started eating raw and now I'm relapsing. I transitioned into raw very gradually too, and was vegan before that (that shift, I know for sure, came from a healthy side of me, not the ED'd part). Just curious.

It's so difficult to draw the line between caring for your physical health and getting obsessive about it, and so very easy to cross it...

I wish I could give a better answer than this. But, all I can say is no. I have been eating mostly raw foods for at least 12 years now. But, during this whole time, I have probably never eaten sensibly for even a week. I can think of several possible reasons.

I've tried many tricks and techniques and other things over the years to bring sense to my diet and sleep. But I think I've never stuck with anything for very long. At least for me, I guess I don't have the motivation to stick with something for very long. I keep thinking about hormones or physiological things that might be out of balance. But I guess if I'd had the motivation to really stick with something, whatever hormonal or physiological out-of-whackness there might have been put better by now. I never give up hope and don't stop trying, but it does seem like an endless pattern or take this up then drop it.

Someday, maybe I'll get it....



This way is not compatible with Zen practice. This way IS Zen practice. - Dr. Doug Graham

Nothing whatsoever should be attached to. - Buddha

I've never had an ED thank goodness but I can get obsessive about food and weight. Raw helps me because it allows me to eat greater quantities than on a regular diet. Also if it is an appearance thing, I have seen too many women with illnesses to ever be fooled into thinking that it is an attractive look. I just keep thinking, if I get to the point where I am ill and my periods stop, then I will lose my precious height.

I think magazines do people a great disservice by pointing at healthy, albeit skinny celebs, and calling them all anorexic indiscriminately.

enchantress, you put it so well:

It's so difficult to draw the line between caring for your physical health and getting obsessive about it, and so very easy to cross it...

People who've been on this board for a long time might remember the 'me' of four years or so ago, when I first started posting here (as 'luskinia'). I was dying of anorexia, 75lbs, pretty much everyone except my parents had given up on me and they were in despair. I was very much on my own and my weakness and resultant depression made me even more isolated. Several well-meaning people on this board urged me to eat some cooked food, pointing out that raw foods would always be there for me and that being 100% shouldn't be the priority at that point, that it might feed in to unhealthy obsessions, etc. A friend of my parents who practices Chinese medicine told my parents that going raw (aside from being too yin etc) was just a way to eliminate yet more foods - and this is the main concern that people have when an anorexic goes raw.

But but but - despite all that, I would say that going and staying raw was _crucial_ to my recovery! I must immediately add that being committed to doing deep emotional work with a meditation therapist was also essential - with the diet alone I would not have healed. It's been over four years and it was a _slow_ process but look at me now! I'm not saying that I'm completely healed and perfect or anything but - I'm happy most of the time as opposed to being either depressed or numb. I have lots of wonderful friends as opposed to being isolated. I do so many things in a day, ranging from gardening to harvesting fruit to preparing raw food for people to doing massage/bodywork to doing academic work to riding my bike. I've gained 20lbs...

It was a _slow_ process. I didn't gain more than about 5lbs in the first year and a half, which I only mention because it's an indication of strength - for that length of time I was still very weak. I still had to think about every little exertion, figure out whether I could even do it. I still had to sleep, and sleep, and sleep.

I know too that I'm unusual - I wouldn't necessarily recommend my path of healing to every anorexic. For me, it had to be that way though. I'm not exaggerating when I say that I was dying. I was at the end. Between all the metaphors that food and body image held for me (of there not being enough food to go around, not deserving sustenance, not deserving to take up space) and the negative effects that food had on my body (gluten and dairy allergies, supersensitive to unripeness and sometimes miscombination, horrendous self-punishment if I ever ate 'too much' or the wrong kind of thing, addiction to alcohol), there was no way that I could possibly go back to an old way of eating while my body got strong. At the time, it was as stark a choice as 'raw foods works or I die'. And I had to feel the depth of the pain, to spend a week crying when some of the 'stuff' finally surfaced, to learn gradually to let go of counting every calorie, to experience the difference between a starving, pain wracked body and a body that is willing to do anything, in order to feel a sense of transformation, a feeling that despite the food issues that still exist for me, despite the lingering body images distortions, I never need to go back down that dark road to the brink of death.



seeing is freeing
hearing is clearing
feeling is healing

I just want to point out that COD (compulsive overeating disorder) is an ED, too. It's just not as "glamorous" as anorexia or other EDs that don't make you fat. (I'm not really saying that they're glamorous - I was being sarcastic; I understand that all EDs are very serious.)

But anyway, going vegan helped my COD somewhat. Starting an exercise program helped even more. Going whole (eating only whole foods) helped it a lot. I've just started the transition to raw but I can already tell that raw is helping even more. Nothing else ever helped, especially not a 12 step program (I have a huge problem with OA, but that really just stems from every sponsor I had being completely anti-vegan.)

I don't know if that helps you any, but I just wanted to throw it out there.

Ela - neat.

That was a fascinating story to read.

sunshine, thanks

And quietgrrl, I completely agree (and with the 12 step thing) - anorexia, bulimia and compulsive overeating are just different faces of the same underlying dis-ease.

This past year I have had some overeating experiences of my own (that I've been posting a bit about elsewhere the past couple days) that are partly to do with an overall return to equilibrium after years of starving. My body is still learning to trust me and I am still learning that I don't have to control everything. We've been talking in Uma's 'mono mission' threads about how eating only whole foods helps with all of that too.

love
Ela



seeing is freeing
hearing is clearing
feeling is healing

Hello...thank you for sharing your thoughts... i have the same feelings on this...it is very fine line between an ED and raw...but in my case it was raw or die as well....and i feel like the past 2 1/2 weeks has been a challenge in my life more so then usual...but i am coping...i would love to talk more with you about this...i sent you a pm my story and thoughts!! would love to hear from you and your journey!!
love sachelle
xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxox

Sachelle,

I sent you a pm earlier today - hope you received it!
love
Ela



seeing is freeing
hearing is clearing
feeling is healing

I'd like to thank you too, ela, for sharing. I was also in a near-death state at one point, though I got "healthy" again being force-fed hospital food - and they wonder why it freaks patients out having to gain weight! Feels terrible on that kind of so-called nourishment. But I suppose calories are calories when you're that close to death.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that you're a real inspiration to me. Thanks again!

enchantress,

I'm so sorry you too had to go through the hospital force-feeding! That's one of the most stupid and short-sighted things I've ever experienced - not one person that went through that force feeding that I saw had any lasting recovery. That was part of the reason why I didn't believe that 'calories are calories' any longer - and didn't care too much if I died if it didn't work!

I really hope that you are able to face some of the demons and allow your body to heal. Raw foods is very very honest, which can be scary at times in this process but also so rewarding!
love
Ela



seeing is freeing
hearing is clearing
feeling is healing

I have struggled with compulsive overeating my whole adult life. The only time I have in fact had reprieve from this has been during short stints of raw. I believe it is for several reasons that I find relief. One, I am honoring my body with whole foods, my nutritional needs are being met, and I do not have physiologically based cravings. Two, psychologically, it draws a line in the sand - I simply commit to not eating things that are in packages, pints, etc. That really helps me - Boundaries seem to be key for me. Yes, during the periods of raw, I still ate beyond what would be considered a comfortable full. But the element of compulsion and obsession was lacking. It was not a mental preoccupation that ruled my life but rather something on which I simply needed to improve a bit. Due to bouts of celiac disease, parasites, etc, I have had periods of extremely low weights despite overeating consistently. In college, I too ended up in a hospital being force fed the most horrific of horrific foods in the tens of thousands of calories a day range - The doctors and so called healers where reinforcing my exact addiction - Overeating on foods that are proven to be physiologically addictive and destructive. Throughout the years, I spent a full three of them (I am 31 now) living in eating disorder treatment facilities (don't worry - things have not been that bad for many years). And I am horrified at what I was taught about nutrition and the kinds of foods that I was fed to "heal." Part of why I am pursuing a PHD in nutrition right now is because I have a lot of anger regarding the way in which persons with eating disorders are treated nutritionally. It is beyond wrong. It is a tragedy. I have a vision of creating and manifesting something altogether different - Something that will truly save and improve the quality of lives.

dancerinthenight,

Maybe we can talk sometime? I feel some similar frustration about the mainstream eating disorder treatment paradigm, especially that it's set up to make sure that people _don't_ recover and emphasizes urging people to expect to remain afflicted for life.

Celiac was one of my issues too and I really feel that physiological problems contribute to why someone ends up with an ED as opposed to some other dis-ease. And then you go to raw and it seems like a blessing - the body is really saying that all that it wants is whole raw foods!

I'd love to talk more with you - it sounds like we have some similar experiences.
love
Ela



seeing is freeing
hearing is clearing
feeling is healing

As the mom of three teen girls, one of my greatest fears is that they will fall prey to an eating disorder. It breaks my heart to think of the pain a person must go through, and how out of control it must feel.

I was wondering if anyone who has actually gone through this would be willing to tell me, in your opinion, the best way I can support my daughters so that they never fall victim to this. Do you think that is possible, or do you think this is something that was with you all along.

I hope it is not out of line or rude in any way for me to ask this question, there is no offense intended to anyone. My daughters are quite athletic, and probably the healthiest size possible, yet I sometimes see them comparing themselves to the thinnest of their friends, and it scares me so much.

I pray that anyone dealing with this will find their way through it and into a better, healthier place. I am sure this is one of the hardest challenges to overcome, but it is so very worth the struggle. Please never give up.

Sincerely,
Sapphire

Sapphire thank you so much for your kind words...it hard to say or do something to prevent an ED there is no true way to prevent it...just instill good healthy eating habits..raw makes you feel so good about your self try to talk to to them about eating raw or a higher % of raw...and make sure they know how much you love them....Just love and support is good..it is a hard road to travel down but there is no real approach to stopping it...good luck and please feel free to pm me for other life experiences or something more in depth...i am just now jumping the hurdles to become a healthier happier raw person!!
good luck
hope this helped some
love sachelle
xoxoxoxoxoxoxox

Enchantress and Ela, do you know why you went down the ED route? Was it image, magazines, personal life, control...?

Please don't answer if it is too personal.

hello, i can relate to most of what has been discussed here. i've never been anorexic but i do tend to overeat. every single day of my life, i think about food and my weight. i've never had a problem with weight before but of course age, having kids and just poor diet has made me obssessive about all of it. i feel i do had an ED because of the constant, daily worry about weight. i have a teen age daughter also and it worries me too about her. she's very healthy and thin and she doesn't worry about weight now. who knows what'll happen later in years. for her, i try to tell her and show her that excercise and a healthy appetite is the best thing for a healthy life. i also feel that i tell her things about all of this but in my own head, i'm obssessed with my own weight and health. i feel like a liar. i tried raw for a week or two but i ended up bingeing on junk, cooked food. it's frustrating and i understand all of your frustrations.

thanks, Laura

A couple of years ago, one of my daughters was involved in a very intensive program of gymnastics (she was a competitive gymnast). She trained so hard, up to 20 hours a week of resistance, flexibility and balance training, and before we knew it, she became so muscular. Meanwhile, the coach kept hinting to me that I should restrict her calories, because he wanted to see her get that "ripped" look. (Come on, she was only 14 for crying out loud!) I see why these girls can develop issues about food!

One day my mom (grandma) came for a visit. She took one look at my daughter, and loudly announced that she was FAT, and what kind of mother would allow her daughter to get so out of control fat. I was flabbergasted! Nobody else on the planet would have ever thought she was fat, and that wasn't the point, the comment was totally uncalled for! I was terrified my daughter would be hurt by the comment, but luckily, she was grounded enough to just shrug it off. (But she has steadfastly disliked her grandma from that day forward)

It amazes and angers me when I see people thoughtlessly making comments like that about anybody, of any size. It can be so hurtful, and I don't know what causes a person to develop this disorder, but I think people should be very careful what they say, comments can be so hurtful sometimes.

I guess that's why I worry about it so much.

also, in the teen years for kids, i believe, it's the hardest time for them because of their peers. their peers are the most influential people in their lives. kids are so mean to each other and it sticks with them. maybe forever. even when girls aren't fat, other girls will say they are due to jealousy or whatever. but, i will have to say, having your childs grandparent call her fat would push me over the edge. how can the grandparent think she's doing any good by degrading that child. that's absolutely uncalled for. i'm sorry to go on about it but those are some of the biggest reasons why ,girls especially, have ED's. my mother was very hard on me to be perfect and i refuse to ever make my kids feel like they aren't good enough, or thin enough, or pretty enough, or smart enough etc. i have vowed to change the vicious cycle of demanding perfection out of your children. or anyone for that matter.

Sapphire - I agree with sachelle in that I don't think it's possible to completely prevent an eating disorder from developing. However, in my opinion, the best possible preventative measure you can take as a parent is to sort out your own issues with food and weight as best as you can. Kids pick up on their parents' unresolved issues and quite often take them on and carry them out. I have the most loving, supportive parents I could ever ask for and I still got sick. And as was also said already, just set a good example. You're on the right track simply by having a desire to instill confidence in your girls. Good on you!

SiennaInLondon - It's SO difficult to pinpoint the exact reasons people get EDs (or any dis-ease for that matter), but I do have some theories. As I said, the parental-insecurities probably fed into things, number one. Two, I'm a perfectionist to the core and tend to obsess about and try to control absolutely everything. Three, I'm highly sensitive, so I pick up on vibes and I stress out and get overwhelmed easily. Four, I'm a masochist (working on that one!). Also, I think people struggle for a reason ("what doesn't kill you makes you stronger"; I believe my ED was/is a teacher, teaching me to be more confident and speak up for myself. So maybe these things don't always have clear causes, but they may have definite positive consequences. And no, I don't think the media had much of an influence on me - my struggle was a completely selfish (as in personal) one. But that's just me...I know that some people are incredibly influenced by magazines, TV, etc. I could go on and on about this subject...maybe I should just write a book, lol.

I'm hesitant to believe that the media alone causes eating disorders. Yes, the presentation of a size zero woman as the only acceptable form of beauty can cause self-esteem issues, but actual, clinical anorexia, bulimia, or EDNOS? There's a lot more going on with those illnesses that just wanting to be thin and I think placing the blame on magazines and skinny models oversimplifies the issue far too much.

It's possible that COD can be a reaction to the thin beauty ideal in that the sufferer is giving up. But I'm pretty sure mine was caused by being miserable - I was also abusing alchol and prescription drugs throughout the years I was compulsively binging; the food was just one more addiction and one more (unsuccessful) way for me to self-medicate. Maybe anorexia and the like are also addictions; not addictions to substances but addictions to behaviors.

Speaking of eating disorders, does anyone have or been accused of having orthorexia? I say "accused" because the first time I heard of it I was being accused of having it by an anti-vegan propagandist who diagnosed me solely on the basis of my being vegan (he was in no way a specialist, just some jack*ff on the internet.) So I'm very suspicious of orthorexia as a diagnosis.

I totally agree with quietgrrrl. It is way overly simplistic to say that eating disorders are caused by the media. I actually think that this more often is not the case than it is the case. I, for example, have been a waif my whole life. And compulsive overeating certainly had nothing to do with attaining any sort of ideal. Many women use food as an emotional lover, satisfying needs that they are not getting met in their interpersonal or spiritual lives. Many women use food as a means of hiding and cloaking their sexuality due to a fear of men and intimacy. Many women use food to beat themselves up. Many women use food and addiction in general as a stalling device to avoid making decisions about life path and an excuse to stay stuck. Many women use food to gain control when the rest of their life feels very out of control. Many women use food to numb out and avoid feeling things that seem overwhelming or threatening. Many women use food to break all the rules and rebel against all the good girl crap they were taught all their young lives. There are so many reasons. Media is not the problem. Yes, in some cases it might ignite a flame, but the underlying cause is most often much more profound and complex. Also - I would like to say - Although I refer to women here - Let's not forget that there are a lot of men who also struggle with eating issues and often get overlooked.


And Ela - I would love to talk with you sometime. It indeed seems that we have a lot in common. Thank you for reaching out.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2007 04:16AM by dancerinthenight.

Hey Ela... thank you so much fo rsharing your story... its very inspirational :-) My name is Ethan (hariprema on aol)... I think you are the same Ela that I spoke to several times. Its nice to learn more about you! Talk to ya soon :-) -Ethan

I had disorders until I was raw and then maybe 3-4 years into it again, but since being fruitarian I feel thin no matter how much I eat.

It's a digestion problem anorexia, for me...I think it was.

When food doesnt stay stuck you feel good ..

Dancerinthenight - well said!

OK. I thought I would post in this thread because I am really struggling. Since the fast, I have done nothing but eat my brains out - On crap. My body and mind know that this is the wrong thing. But I have this last feast mentality and each night I say - Just one more night of every food I remotely like - And then I go nuts and eat everything I can think of - Like over 10,000 calories - I wish I was exagerating. I don't know if anyone has any encouraging words. I thought that this problem would just go away eventually. I felt that I had wore it out after overeating for 16 years. But apparently this is still an issue. There must be a very strong sub conscious part of me that believes that I don't deserve health and beauty. For I do everything in my power to destroy both. Help! And if you don't have anything helpful you want to share - Please just send me some healing energy. I want this monkey off my back. My life depends on it. My body truly cannot take this kind of abuse for much longer.

dancerinthenight,

In an earlier thread, I shared what I do when I am feeling the discomfort of a past decision:

Quote

Here is my process around my lessons. I look to not beat myself up over it. I remind myself that I am not a victim, that I made a choice that seemed to be a good idea at the time. I don't allow my discomforts of my past decisions to affect my current now. I feel the pain as much as I can so that the next time, I might be motivated try something different. And if I do talk about the experience I see if I can express it in a way such that my words express the gift of the lesson of the experience, rather than seeing the experience as a mistake I made.

I've had this experience of coming off of a fast and wanting to eat the farm. Part of the reason you are experiencing this is because you needed to leave the fast early because of your unpleasant interactions with your fasting supervisor. I know that Dr Graham spends a lot of time helping people deal with re-alimentation issues, and wanting to get back to one's normal bodyweight is something that I certainly experienced.

This feeling will pass. What will help you feel the most nourished is raw foods. Each time you eat, see how much consciousness you can apply towards your eating process. Before you eat, check on what your energy feels like. Are you feeling afraid or nervous or anxious? If so, perhaps do a yoga practice or go for a walk or meditate before you eat.

When you are eating and you feel the need to eat the farm, again, apply as much consciousness to eat mouthful of food you take. Ask yourself, am I really hungry or is this something else. If it is something else, ask yourself are you willing to pay the consequences for your actions. If the answer is no, consider not eating. If the answer is yes, then eat and look to play where quoted myself above.

dancerinthenight - maybe zeolite would be helpful to you. I've found that it curbs my appetite by getting my blood sugar under control and neutralizing my blood pH. I travel a lot on business & have found this to make my life a lot easier in that I don't have to worry so much about eating occasional cooked food. In the past, when I've gone down the path of cheese or chocolate or carbs, I've found it very difficult to get back to healthy eating, no doubt due to the crazy blood sugar spikes and plummets such food causes for me. But the zeolite has been a great. It makes you really thirsty too unless you eat juicy raw foods, so it's hard to even eat junk food, you just turn away from it.

Also another great thing for me is cooked unhulled barley - gets the blood sugar under control. For me that seems to be the cause of most if not all cravings.

dancer, im so sorry for what you're going through. please
remember there is also a very strong part of you that believes
you DO deserve health and beauty. you have shared so much
beauty with us already and i believe visiting to this forum is
also an intention for the highest well being.

my long term anorexic / overeating issues continue to pop up
also. it's so humbling to keep starting over. i find if i can
at least lovingly draw a line somewhere, i feel a little safer.
one line i try to hold is if i must eat more than my body needs,
i keep it in the domain of fruit or veggie. but if i can't achieve
that, i must still honor the empty place no matter what.

i find that water fasting can backfire and sometimes if im
in a good place in my life i can do a little green juicing,
otherwise i just try to aim for stability.

sometimes i have to make myself do all the things i love doing so i
forget about food,raw, health ....for a while.