So my dad is very conservative in general and is skeptical about my dietary choices regarding raw foods - Especially since the ideas I embrace are what might be described as fruitarian. Does anyone have a great and scientifically based Website that might help him undertand my choices?

mmm. i just added my picture to my signature - just testing to see if it works...

Oh my god - How do I shrink this already bizarre picture?

You won't find much in the way of credibility here, but there is some good stuff out there if you don't mind putting in the effort to read it.

You will not find much if anything that will make a good impression on him from a raw food site. There is a lot of poetry and nonsense but not much that will impress a well-grounded skeptic. If anything, the propaganda, the crackpot theories, and the make-believe magical land part, which is a very large part, will turn him off.

But there are some compelling data regarding protection from certain types of cancers, diabetes type II, improved antioxidant status and colon health, increased intake of certain vitamins and protective phytochemicals, etc... these are the important aspects to which few here have paid attention. And when they do get mentioned, there is a backlash.

To quote William Harris, MD, "the raw foodists are right, but not for the reasons that they state."

Or something like that!


I'll make you a list of links from better journals and post it Wednesday night. I'd do it now but have a big exam coming up.

I suggest showing your dad before and after pictures and stories of people who cured themselves from some serious diseases, often within months. Show him the compelling empirical evidence.

As far as scientifically-based raw food page, I haven't seen one yet. Most raw foodists who quote scientific research have little understanding of what it means to be scientific. Many distort scientific findings and misrepresent the facts. Many do not understand the probability behind that statistical data and claim hypotheses as solid facts.

The science of raw foods has not made a noticable mark on the map of science yet. Nevertheless, there are some compelling empirical findings out there, that are worth noticing. Like for example these:



1. There is some evidence that low meat/dairy and hig-fruit diet may lower the risk of cancer, and vice-versa, that is a diet high in meat/dairy and low in fruit, can make this risk higher:
[psa-rising.com]
(You could inform your partner that the diet that she recommends increases your risk of prostrate cancer)

2. There is also some evidence that cooked meat may increase the risk of cancer:
[www.nutrition.org]
(scroll down to the 8-th abstract there)

3. Raw foods may reduce the breast cancer risk:
Raw and Cooked Vegetables, Fruits, Selected Micronutrients, and Breast Cancer Risk: A Case-Control Study in Germany
Karl-Heinrich Adzersen, Patricia Jess, Klaus Wilhelm Freivogel, Ingrid Gerhard, Gunther Bastert
Nutrition and Cancer, July 2003, Vol. 46: 131-137
(doi:10.1207/S15327914NC4602_05)
Abstract:
In 1998-2000, a case-control study of breast cancer was conducted in Heidelberg, Germany. Three hundred ten consecutively recruited cases with primary breast cancer were matched according to 10-yr age groups to 353 controls with conditions unrelated to diet or endocrine disorders. Intake of raw vegetables, total vegetables, and whole-grain products was inversely associated with breast cancer risk (highest vs. lowest quartile adjusted odds ratio [OR] 0.51, 95% confidence interval [CI] 0.31-0.84; OR = 0.62, 95% CI = 0.38-1.02; and OR = 0.57; 95% CI = 0.34-0.95, respectively). Also, high intake of some selected vitamins and minerals possessing putative DNA-stabilizing properties displayed significant inverse risk associations. Adjusted ORs were as follows: vitamin C (OR = 0.49, 95% CI = 0.2-0.88), folate equivalents (OR = 0.47, 95% CI = 0.25-0.88), ΓΆ-carotene (OR = 0.46, 95% CI = 0.27-0.80), zinc (OR = 0.35, 95% CI = 0.15-0.78), and copper (OR =0.51, 95% CI = .31-1.03). In contrast, no significant association with risk was seen for an increased intake of fruits, cooked vegetables, fiber, calcium, manganese, or iron. In this population of German women, components of raw vegetables and some micronutrients appear to decrease breast cancer risk.


4. Raw foods may decrease the gastric cancer risk:
Effect of diet and Helicobacter pylori infection to the risk of early gastric cancer
Lee SA, Kang D, Shim KN, Choe JW, Hong WS, Choi HM
JOURNAL OF EPIDEMIOLOGY
13 (3): 162-168 MAY 2003
Abstract:
BACKGROUND: The association of dietary habits and Helicobacter pylori infection with early gastric cancer is still unclear.
METHODS: A hospital-based case-control study was conducted in Korea. Sixty-nine patients were newly diagnosed as having early gastric cancer at the Division of Gastroenterology, Asan Medical Center, and 199 healthy subjects who visited the Health Promotion Center of the this same hospital for annual health examinations were selected as controls. Helicobacter pylori infection status was assayed by ELISA, and information for dietary habits was obtained by interview using a semi-quantitative food frequency questionnaires. Preference for salty taste was also evaluated using a sensitive test.
RESULTS: H. pylori seropositivity was observed in 88% of cases, as compared with 75% of controls (OR=5.3, 95% confidence interval: 1.7-16.5). Adaptive salt concentration was significantly and positively associated with early gastric cancer risk (p<0.01). Decreased risks of early gastric cancer were observed in association with intakes of clear broth, raw vegetables, fruits, fruit or vegetable juices, and soybean curds. On the other hand, a high intake of salt-fermented fish and kimchi were associated with an elevated risk of early gastric cancer. Subjects with positive H. pylori infection and a high salty preference had a 10-fold higher risk of early gastric cancer than subjects without H. pylori infection and with a low salty preference (p for interaction = 0.047).


5. Fibromyalgia patients helped with mostly raw vegetarian diet:
BMC Complement Altern Med 2001;1(1):7
Fibromyalgia syndrome improved using a mostly raw vegetarian diet: An observational study.
Donaldson MS, Speight N, Loomis S. Hallelujah Acres Foundation, Shelby, NC USA. michael@hacres.com
BACKGROUND: Fibromyalgia engulfs patients in a downward, reinforcing cycle of unrestorative sleep, chronic pain, fatigue, inactivity, and depression. In this study we tested whether a mostly raw vegetarian diet would significantly improve fibromyalgia symptoms.
METHODS: Thirty people participated in a dietary intervention using a mostly raw, pure vegetarian diet. The diet consisted of raw fruits, salads, carrot juice, tubers, grain products, nuts, seeds, and a dehydrated barley grass juice product. Outcomes measured were dietary intake, the fibromyalgia impact questionnaire (FIQ), SF-36 health survey, a quality of life survey (QOLS), and physical performance measurements.
RESULTS: Twenty-six subjects returned dietary surveys at 2 months; 20 subjects returned surveys at the beginning, end, and at either 2 or 4 months of intervention; 3 subjects were lost to follow-up. The mean FIQ score (n = 20) was reduced 46% from 51 to 28. Seven of the 8 SF-36 subscales, bodily pain being the exception, showed significant improvement (n = 20, all P for trend < 0.01). The QOLS, scaled from 0 to 7, rose from 3.9 initially to 4.9 at 7 months (n = 20, P for trend 0.000001). Significant improvements (n = 18, P < 0.03, paired t-test) were seen in shoulder pain at rest and after motion, abduction range of motion of shoulder, flexibility, chair test, and 6-minute walk. 19 of 30 subjects were classified as responders, with significant improvement on all measured outcomes, compared to no improvement among non-responders. At 7 months responders' SF-36 scores for all scales except bodily pain were no longer statistically different from norms for women ages 45-54.
CONCLUSION: This dietary intervention shows that many fibromyalgia subjects can be helped by a mostly raw vegetarian diet.


6. Fibryomalgia and rheumatoid patients helped with living foods diet:
Acta Physiol Hung 1999;86(3-4):171-80
Vegan diet in physiological health promotion.
Hanninen O, Rauma AL, Kaartinen K, Nenonen M. Department of Physiology, University of Kuopio, Finland.
We have performed a number of studies including dietary interventions and cross-sectional studies on subjects consuming uncooked vegan food called living food (LF) and clarified the changes in several parameters related to health risk factors. LF consists of germinated seeds, cereals, sprouts, vegetables, fruits, berries and nuts. Some items are fermented and contain a lot of lactobacilli. The diet is rich in fiber. It has very little sodium, and it contains no cholesterol. Food items like berries and wheat grass juice are rich in antioxidants such as carotenoids and flavonoids. The subjects eating living food show increased levels of carotenoids and vitamins C and E and lowered cholesterol concentration in their sera. Urinary excretion of sodium is only a fraction of the omnivorous controls. Also urinary output of phenol and p-cresol is lowered as are several fecal enzyme levels which are considered harmful. The rheumatoid arthritis patients eating the LF diet reported amelioration of their pain, swelling of joints and morning stiffness which all got worse after finishing LF diet. The composite indices of objective measures showed also improvement of the rheumatoid arthritis patients during the intervention. The fibromyalgic subjects eating LF lost weight compared to their omnivorous controls. The results on their joint stiffness and pain (visual analogue scale), on their quality of sleep, on health assessment questionnaire and on general health questionnaire all improved. It appears that the adoption of vegan diet exemplified by the living food leads to a lessening of several health risk factors to cardiovascular diseases and cancer. Rheumatoid patients subjectively benefited from the vegan diet which was also seen in serum parameters and fecal analyses.


7. The colon of a cooked foodist seems to be full of toxins implicated in colon cancer risk:
J Nutr 1992 Apr;122(4):924-30
Shifting from a conventional diet to an uncooked vegan diet reversibly alters fecal hydrolytic activities in humans.
Ling WH, Hanninen O. Department of Physiology, University of Kuopio, Finland.
We studied the effect on fecal hydrolytic activities of adopting an uncooked extreme vegan diet and readopting a conventional diet. Eighteen subjects were randomly divided into test and control groups. In the test group subjects adopted the uncooked extreme vegan diet for 1 mo and then resumed a conventional diet for a second month. Controls consumed a conventional diet throughout the study. Phenol and p-cresol concentrations in serum and daily output in urine and fecal enzyme activities were measured. The activity of fecal urease significantly decreased (by 66%) as did cholylglycine hydrolase (55%), beta-glucuronidase (33%) and beta-glucosidase (40%) within 1 wk of beginning the vegan diet. The new level remained throughout the period of consuming this diet. Phenol and p-cresol concentrations in serum and daily outputs in urine significantly declined. The fecal enzyme activities returned to normal values within 2 wk of resuming the conventional diet. Concentrations of phenol and p-cresol in serum and daily output in urine had returned to normal after 1 mo of consuming the conventional diet. No changes were observed in the control group during the study. Results suggest that this uncooked extreme vegan diet causes a decrease in bacterial enzymes and certain toxic products that have been implicated in colon cancer risk.



I love your hairstyle, by the way!

Gosia


RawGosia channel
RawGosia streams



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2007 12:21AM by rawgosia.

>Many distort scientific findings and misrepresent the facts

How's your B12 status, Gosia? Do your children have adequate B12 status? Have you verified this with testing of their MMA levels? Have you not previously asserted that maintaining an adequate B12 status with supplements is harmful?

Problems associated with inadequate B12 status have made a signficant impact on the medical community. Virginia Vetrano's web page has not.

Wow Gosia. Thank you for the detailed response. This information is indeed very helpful. And the hairstyle - Not every day - That was an aberration. In fact I don't even own a brush or hairdryer....

No worries dancerinthenight, I like collecting interesting stuff. There is more out there!

What convinced my husband to try raw was seeing me transform myself.

All the best with your dad.

Gosia


RawGosia channel
RawGosia streams

There are tons of websites I like the fruitarian ones, there are great ones, just google them and pick..

I wanted to add that my whole family appreciates the experience of raw foods, even kids praise it, and Odys, who likes lecturing others, can give extended lectures on why raw foods are superior. By the way, they develop wonderfully, they both are very bright and their bodies healthy. My mental faculties has been geeting only better - I won a prestigous research grant this year. On raw I can focus on my research like on no other diet!

Coconutcream, which ones would you recommend?

Gosia


RawGosia channel
RawGosia streams

[www.fruitarian.com]

has got all this well written stuff in it.

Nice, thanks. Oh my, this one would be too much to swallow for someone coming from a position of total belief in the orthodox medicine. Interesting though.


Gosia


RawGosia channel
RawGosia streams

HIYA!

Dancer, a raw friend recently introduced me to a raw website. I was going to read it over then make a post to this forum to see if anyone knew about it or had any comments. But since you are looking, I perused it a bit sooner than I otherwise would have.

I've read a bit of it and it's interesting. There are lots and lots of citations but they don't make it hard or boring to read.

***I should add that this is neither a vegan nor a vegetarian website.

So if I'm not allowed to link to this site, then I understand.

It's just that it's raw. They advocate raw egg yolk (without the "bag" and raw salmon. I think the recommendation is for mostly fruit. No leafy green vegetables.

[www.waisays.com]

It seems to be from Europe. There are occasional English mistakes but nothing's hard to understand in the least.

My friend said that there were some scientists researching acne. They stumbled on raw food as the cure and found that it cures lots of other problems.

I'm interested to see what our more scientifically inclined members have to say about this site, if you choose to look it over.



This way is not compatible with Zen practice. This way IS Zen practice. - Dr. Doug Graham

Nothing whatsoever should be attached to. - Buddha