There may be a need for balance on both sides of this arguement.

We are all still a mystery to ourselves, are we not?

I like knowing intellectually and yet I believe that all the well-planned menus of man can not guarantee optimal health. Eubie Blake ate Krispy Kreme donuts for breakfast everyday and drank alcohol like a fish and lived a productive one hundred and three years.

So, intuition, happiness, a sense of purpose, love...all of these things may actually alchemize the foods we eat and change their chemical components within our blessed bodies. Alternately, the most thought out and "optimal" diet, well-researched and fueled by knowledge in an obsessive-compulsive, abstemious, and anal-retentive body may be just as deadly as a Big Mac diet.

Who really, really knows?

I enjoy your posts Arugula, I've said that many times before. I don't like seeing you bashed, or anyone for that matter. All of us belong here (and some of us belong here in multiples!) or we wouldn't be here. I believe that each of us has a unique contribution to make.

Besides, based on your last post concerning food intake, you are eating pretty high raw these days, aren't you? I only counted a tad of black-eyed pea in your days intake.


khale

Arugula,

You and Bryan are both correct. You tried to help others with what you know about science and raw food, while Bryan tried to help others with his personal experiences as a 100% raw foodist for many years. There's nothing wrong on both sides.

All the best,
Wong



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2007 02:38PM by blue_sky.

Arugula,

You and Bryan are both correct. You tried to help others with what you know about science and raw food, while Bryan tried to help others with his personal experiences as a 100% raw foodist for many years. There's nothing wrong on both sides.

All the best,
Wong

Sorry for the double post.

All the best,
Wong

I've been trying to keep out of the "intellectual argument" melee along the line of thought in this thread and the others that have been popping up the past few months on the forum, as I feel that there are more than enough people sharing their opinions in favor of one side or the other despite the fact that these may or may not reflect my own perspective. However...I guess it's time to chip in with my take on this trend.

To begin, if one doesn't have qualms of openly criticizing the opinions of others and how they choose to arrive at their conclusions and the references that they rely on to support their opinion, then why be thin skinned and defensive when the same methodology is used to criticize the critic??

Frequently references are made to research articles supporting one perspective of a matter, which in itself is nothing wrong as that information resonated with that particular reader. Using that same information to denigrate another person's perspective and make it seem as though they are intellectually defective is a different matter. Why? Because both sides may be actually correct, just looking at same issue from a different perspective or for that matter, heaven forbid, both sides could actually be wrong! Case in point, the story of the blind men exploring an elephant, and each being steadfast that his impression of what he felt was the correct one. In fact, in this instance, all were right.

Furthermore, the ability to analyze information in a way that is beneficial does not reside soley with an educated elite. Common sense is within the reach of all, whether formally schooled or not. There are many people who-- without formal education in the sciences, research methods and knowledge of methodologies of critical inquiry-- have overcome major health conditions that "approved" researchers as noted in their journals and "scientifically based articles" are still trying to figure out. How? By adopting principles of natural and healthful living.

There is room in this forum for all perspectives as each contribute to the goal of optimum health and living that we are pursuing. Maybe by making room in our perspectives to respectfully entertain the views of others (even those we view as based from sources that mainstream society has not bestowed its blessings and accreditations on) it will help to broaden our own perspective along the way to the ideals we are pursuing.

Wishing you vibrant health

well thats no more than just a wider intelligently worded and inclusive version of what I wrote!

but really, the moral is if you are trying to disprove the existence of someones experiences with facts and data, they can only laugh, although that is what they should do and leave it at that.

Everyone , including us delightful raw foodists, have a view of the world. noone is wrong and noone is right, we have all valid views

Not strictly true, nutrition is chemistry and physics and it all boils down to is pushing electrons around.

Some compounds are required for health because they are cofactors for imporant enzymes, without which, certain reactions/functions will not be maintained at an adequate rate. This is because it requires a certain molecule with a certain shape to fit in where it needs to go to make things happen.

A bunch of handwaving and poetry does not make this stuff disappear and not matter. There is a lot of blithe dismissal and downplaying about fundamental needs that is inappropriate here. Yes, it's great to eat a lot of uncooked fruits and vegetables and to a lesser amount, nuts and seeds. But that isn't all that it takes to satisfy one's needs and many people have damaged themselves by buying in to this mythology.

You don't need to know what a corrin ring looks like to be healthy. But you do need to take some real B12 that has a corrin ring into your body on a regular basis to be healthy in the long run. And enough essential fats, essential aminos, vitamins, and minerals. The consequences may be dire in the long run if you fail to do so. Most people will not get to that point, they will change something if they find it isn't working for them. For some, there are problems within months and others years. But wouldn't it be better to avert the potential problems entirely by meeting one's needs in the first place?

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

I think that most people here understand where I am coming from. It isn't a place of hostility. I just want to see people as healthy as they can be from their food. Health isn't only food, but we should at least get that part right, This is a food board, after all.

Agree, coconutcream, everyone is where they need to be. I add to that - openness to change is a crucial prerequisite to a progress on a raw food diet.

Gosia


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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2007 09:17PM by rawgosia.

arugula-electrophilica


<<Not strictly true, nutrition is chemistry and physics and it all boils down to is pushing electrons around.>>

follow the electron
yep.. follow it ... follow it.. cuz that is where everything lies
however... emotions, thoughts, happiness, sound mind, spiritual fulfillment etc.
those too also alter the metabolic biochemistry of a person

that ALso is an instigator in pushing the electron as it makes its merry way
( taking little snooze breaks on a coupla favorite carbocation resting spots along the way)

as well as creating new chemicals ( which means even MORE electron pushing thus potential to synthesize new products by altering old ones from thought alone)

and these non food chemical reactions that arise from thoughts and feelings do have the power to :


) >increase acidity ( or decrease it)
>add stress hormones to the body or protect the body with pain killing chemicals (endorphins etc)
etc. etc.. the examples of mind body connection are too numerous to relay on this post alone
) thus boost immunity or ( the opposite)

so... even though nutritional principles definetely have a place otherwise most people wouldn't even bother to be on this site,

it is not mutually exclusive from ALL the things that contribute to how the individual is affected


<<A bunch of handwaving and poetry does not make this stuff disappear and not matter.>>

a person's individual experience supersedes whatever it says in the books
if it works for them, it works for them

yes, poetry does NOT make science disappear
how can it?

science
IS
poetry

the electron is a very cunning and capricious little beast
a plethora of mechanistic analysis devoted to learning its energetic travails

though it does follow certain principles
there are always new principles to be learned

and there are a vast array of things that we have yet to know

the electron is just an electrical unit... it is energy
just like our thoughts are energy

if u think that mere thoughts are handwaving
then perhaps an electron itself, the God of all science, is just waving its hands as well

but so many books are devoted to understanding how, when and why it is waving its hands

where is it going? cuz its ALWAYS going SOMEwhere

our thoughts too
are a composite of electrical impulses

if u worship the electron
worship thought
if u worship thought
worship its source

the source is intuition
and intuition is lead by spirit

there is no division
anywhere

if there is
i don't see it

i must be blind