sunshine79,

On that 2nd link you posted, there is a question in their FAQ:

Quote

Question: How did I get fructose malabsorption or fructose intolerance?


Answer: A very small percentage of people have hereditary Fructose Intolerance (less than 1 in 10,000 people.) Fructose Malabsorption is less well understood. But may be somewhat self-imposed by our modern diets. Humans have not yet evolved systems to cope with such high sugar consumption.

Remember, this website is talking about people eating massive amounts of fructose. That does not mean massive amounts of fruits, but instead products that are sweetened with high fructose corn syrup. This includes soft drinks, desserts, juices, candy, processed foods, etc. High fructose corn syrup was developed as a outcome of the sugar embargo the US imposed on Cuba. The US wanted to make sure that it didn't buy sugar from other countries that bought their sugar from Cuba, so they started using corn syrup to sweeten foods.

If you read the link about corn syrup, what happens is that corn syrup starts out as pure glucose, but with an enzyme they are able to transform the glucose into fructose. Is this fructose the same frutose that is in fresh fruit? Perhaps yes, but it is chemically made in factory, first by extracting glucose out of corn and then going through this chemical transformation. I would say that the relationship of corn syrup to fruit is about the same as white table sugar is to fruit in terms of the relative healthfulness of the two products.

Arugula stated in a previous posts that they are perhaps anti AGE products in fruit that counteract the AGE effects of fructose in the body. First of all, there is no research proving that the consumption of fruit create the AGEs in the first place. Also, fruit is rich in soluble fiber, and this fiber prevents the onslought of the various fruit sugars from going from the digestive system into the blood steam like corn syrup would do if one consumed a candy bar or a soft drink. In most processed foods that contain corn syrup, very few if any of them contain soluble fiber. What soluble fiber is in a Coke or a Snickers candy bar (the peanuts contain insoluble fiber, which is not the same)?

Then there is the issue of the amount of food processing that goes into making the corn syrup in the first place. Its not enough that the glucose is refined and concentrated (and of course cooked to death), but there is the additional chemical processing to convert glucose to fructose. Is this anything like a natural food? It seem more like a pure refined chemical food additive to me, lacking any resemblance to whole fresh raw foods.

"Possibly, we both have a physical weakness, just different. The fruitarian cannot tolerate anything else except fruit, and the high veggie raw foodist cannot tolerate high fruit. Who is to say which really is the weaker one? Perhaps you Goshia, did came from a SAD diet and are much newer than I too healthy foods, where my body has been detoxified for the last 20+ years and need more rebuilding with veggies, and you are still so toxic that you may still need cleansing, and at a later time, when you have been healthy for as long as I, you will begin to need rebuilding and will be able to tolerate veggies and other vegan raw foods that are so healthy, like the ones I can enjoy.

Just another way too look at it."

Rawrr, intersting possibility, but no, I did not come from a SAD diet. Also no, I do not have problems with digesting or tolerating vegies. I simply feel my best on high in fruit, low in fat diet. And, I demand the best. I am quite happy to say that I am a fruigivorous being. I have no doubts about that. I do not see myself as being at the end of my journey, but rather, at the beginning of it. I don't think I have arrived yet. And no, I am not interested in comparing, except myself with myself. Everyone is where they need to be.

Gosia


RawGosia channel
RawGosia streams

Rawrrr!

It seem like you think I am saying that you need to eat more fruit. I am not saying this. I am saying eat whatever feels good to you!

The basic premise of this thread is that "And so it is - Fruit indeed CAN be the enemy". Based on what I've read from the links that sunshine79 posted, I would say that no one got to the level of poor health these papers are talking about from eating too much fruit.

You say you have fruit intolerances. I believe you. sunshine79 says she has fruit intolerances. I believe her. However, I don't believe that these fruit intolerances came about from the overconsumption of fruit in your youth. There were probably other factors involved that caused your body to reject fruit. Having been on this board for some time, there have been people who if they ate any fruit, their body would go into anaphylactic shock; their throats would swell, they repiratory passages will close, and they would nearly die or suffocate. And some of these people, liked the way they felt on raw, and over time, even though they couldn't eat any fruit because of the possibility of dying, their bodies healed and they were able to then eat a little fruit at first, and over time, they could eat all the fruit they wanted. Again, these people didn't get into the state of health they experienced from eating too much fruit at a young age. Their bodies were compromised by the cooked foods they ate in childhood or the cooked foods their mothes ate when they were not yet born.

All the people who have a bad candida reaction when they eat a banana did not get into this state of health from eating too much fruit when they were young. Their sugar intolerance came out of the lifestyle of their youth or the lifestyle of their mothers while they were not yet born. And many of these people, if they work on their health, are able to eat all the fruit they want after being raw and healing their sugar related issues.

Please do not read this message and think I am saying you are broken. I definitely don't think you are broken, but also I would say a person with fruit intolerances is not in the best of health. If a person stays with the raw diet long enough and practice healthful lifestyle habits, their body will guide them to a diet that will allow these intolerances to heal. I do not view fruit intolerance as a permanent condition, but one that is the outcome of the lifestyle that came before. And as such, if the lifestyle improves, the health of the body can also improve.

I don't consider fruit tolerance as the best state of health. I think this is where we will never agree.

I don't think fruit is the cause, I'm wondering how well you read and comprehend my posts. This can be fustrating, so I'm not going to go around in circles with correcting what I meant. You seem very passive/aggressive, and we will never get anywhere with this.


I also need to put my energy into my loved ones right now, so I will have to wish you the best in whatever makes you happy.

Rawrrr! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I also need to put my energy into my loved ones
> right now, so I will have to wish you the best in
> whatever makes you happy.

Probably the best place for it.

Good luck Rawrrr!

> Its funny, because arugula on this forum is hinting at this exact same conclusion.

No, I am not.

I have been reading about glycation for the better part of a decade and posting about it for several years on this very forum.

Milton described the high fructose problem in cultivated fruits many years ago. It isn't a new thing. I have discussed it previously on several occasions.

There is this tendency to think of an uncooked fruit as being the ultimate food, but most of our fruits are not perfection. They are perversions. They also tend to be low in minerals and essential fatty acids compared to wild fruits.

I don't think it's appropriate to say that a high fruit diet is causal for premature aging but it might be possible under some conditions with a diet high in pure fructose.

Probably calorie restriction is more important than type/quantity of sugar (this is discussed in another paper

free
[jn.nutrition.org]

) but most people would do well to consider both.

There is currently a preponderance of anti-glucose propaganda which I feel is nonsense (GI and GL indices etc.). To me, glucose is another way of saying food, and excess non-carbohydrates will be converted to it, so here the problem is excess kcals and not enough fiber to slow down uptake.

But I think there is some merit to moderating fructose intake, because most wild fruits don't have a lot of it. We prefer high-fructose fruits because they are sweeter but that probably isn't the best thing for us.

I'd rather concentrate on the lower fructose fruits (more citrus and peach, less apple and grape) than incorporate more cooked grains. But to each his/her own. I am not going to make tsunamis about what people choose, as long as they are vegan and taking their B12 and getting enough of their essential aminos and fatty acids and watching their minerals.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2007 07:45AM by arugula.

Rawrrr, I'm curious what brought you to a raw lifestyle and why you continue though you say that you were healthiest before going raw.



This way is not compatible with Zen practice. This way IS Zen practice. - Dr. Doug Graham

Nothing whatsoever should be attached to. - Buddha

Do you mean, what made me go rawER? I am and was very healthy, though I think everyone, can step up their game health wise. This is the first health forum, I've ever been on. I thought it would be fun and I'd learn a few things. I'm more intrested in longevity and anti-aging, because I really didn't/don't have anything to cure, so far, thank God.

I hope this answers your non-friendly, seemingly "loaded" question.

Peace bro!

Rawrrr! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I probably don't have that disease, but still the
> same, TOO MUCH fruit, is not good for ME.
>

That's what I am thinking. Currently besides a salad and some nut my diet consists of all fruit.

I also want to mention, I feel that most of my going rawer problems, are not really what I'm eating, rather, what I stopped eating. 100% Raw vegan does not pan out as well for me as 90% raw vegetarian.

50% raw/cooked vegan I had very thick hair, except I found out I was very allergic to soy and gluten, which are the staples for most cooked vegans. The health problems I had then were more subjective rather than objective, like terrible PMS, which ended when I gave up soy.

Have a lovely day everyone!

A monkey made it up that fruit is bad,

watch this:

[www.neave.tv]


TO

Rawrr it looks like your hair was a bit fried before, bleaching or coloring maybe? and it looks thicker, but now it is natural more and better, healthier.





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2007 04:03PM by coconutcream.

Thanks Coconutcream! And you look beautiful as ever.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!! Why is everyone arguing?!?! Bah.

Rawrrr, I'm a vegetarian who is not all-raw. In fact, only recently have I been including as many raw foods into my diet as possible and I'm not totally sold on the idea that 100% raw is the best route. I can't say either way, until I learn a bit more. What I'm sure of is that, with the knowledge I have now about fruits and vegetables, I could not get all the nutrients I need from them (and that isn't to say I'm getting the nutrients I need from other, cooked food). Also, I have the same concerns as you about sweet fruits.

All that being said, your pitctures support a raw diet, in my eyes. You look more healthy and vibrant in your second photo, but very pretty in both. :-)

Thanks rawrr although I color my hair and get it cut like yours, in the secind photo, layered to a point almost.

I wish I would not fry it but it looks so good blonde. i was blonde when I was a girl. my dad is german, mom paraguayan..but growing up my hair is dark black. I hate it because i was raised in New York where i said to mysefl minorities must be bad so anything to look like an american blonde fake that is, I do. i am hung up on some issues.

Back to raw food. I looked really good raw but nothing like fruitarian. I mean, the way I see myself. We all have self images of ourselves.

I can say I am raw although I eat just fruit. If I want greens i eat them, but rarely do. I neever ever eat nuts except coconuts

Noelle! Thank you! And you are a beautiful young lady!... probably about my daughters age, she is 20yrs. And how wonderful that you are a raw fan and health nut at a young age. It pays off in the short and long run.

Coconutcream, your hair would look good any color, but dark hair is hot. I was blonde growing up and my hair turned brown, too. My first photo is bleached and the second pic I went back to my natural color.

Back to raw, it definately looks like fruitarianism is working for you.

I just can't wait for organic peach and organic watermelon season. Each fruit season is so exciting! Greens are plentiful year around in Cali, so while they are not as exciting, they are always just-picked-fresh and delicious.

Rawrrr, no no I had nothing loaded in that question at all. Please, "non-friendly"? Maybe you were just feeling under the fire, under the gun so to speak. Really, just a simple question. You spoke so well of the past so I wondered why you decided to go ALL raw (I think you're now 100% but it really doesn't matter in the least - I'm not 100%), that's all. You answered my question. Fine.



This way is not compatible with Zen practice. This way IS Zen practice. - Dr. Doug Graham

Nothing whatsoever should be attached to. - Buddha

Juss coz some people cannot take fruits doesn't mean that fruits are bad for you.....to me it all comes down to pay the consequences for our parents and their parents lived their lives.....

Rawrr, you do look much healthier in the second photo. Clearer skin, brighter eyes, glowing face. Your hair looks much prettier too. Nice and natural. It does not look thinner to me. ?? Anyway, thinning hair is something that many experience on raw, before the hair gets thicker again. Heard it many times, happenned to me too, around my first-second year of raw. Detox.

Gosia


RawGosia channel
RawGosia streams

coconutcream Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A monkey made it up that fruit is bad,

It isn't that fruit is bad, but most modern fruits are not so good as they could be.

The point is that the fruit that monkeys in the wild eat is healthier than the modern cultivars that we eat. Theirs is much lower in fructose, higher in glucose, higher in amino acids (protein) and higher in essential fatty acids compared to modern cultivars.

When people argue that fruit is the natural food we should eat the most of, they are probably right, but with some qualifications: it should be fruit that resembles wild fruit nutritionally. That is not the case for the fruit that most of us are eating. We can get there with mostly fruit, especially certain types, but to avoid problems in the long run we do well to also supplement it with some leaves, certain types of nuts and seeds (not a lot), and a little bit of B12 and possibly D.

According to science (Harvard Mental Health Letter, February 2003 [hmiworld.org]) B12 is found in bananas, and other plants (see J Nutr Sci Vitaminol (Tokyo). 2004 Dec;50(6):438-40, for example).

Fruitfully,
Gosia


RawGosia channel
RawGosia streams

The Fruitarian One Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Juss coz some people cannot take fruits doesn't
> mean that fruits are bad for you.....to me it all
> comes down to pay the consequences for our parents
> and their parents lived their lives.....


That is so true! Your point made is something we all need to consider. Most of our parents took some kinds of drugs, ate the wrong things, were exposed without knowing to chemicals, have hereditary weaknesses... and that is why some of us are born with health issues. Also, the junk we ate from birth until we started eating healthy. Till I die, I will try to cure myself and be the healthiest I can be.

Not to ramble on, but I remember having the worst chronic insomnia as a little girl growing up. Children aren't supposed to have insomnia. I've had hypoglycemia as long as I can remember, and then I read a book about hypoglycemia, written by Bernard Jensen, when I was 18. It changed my life for the better.

TroySantos, please forgive me jumping to conclusions and for being hypersensitive. I thought I was under scrutiny. haha! I hope all is going well for you.

Rawgosia, thank you! I also wondered if some of it was detox.

<I do believe high fruit is good for some. I do believe high fruit is not good for everyone>


Rawrr, I agree with you that eating too much fruit can be real bad for some people-- myself included!-- and I support you in what you need to do and finding the percentage of fruit that keeps you healthy. I don't think there is a one-size-fits-all ideal raw diet. Your innate instincts are more important than any ideas imposed by others. I have many days where I want to eat mostly vegies, and I instinctively reach for them and skip the fruit for a few hours or even a day.

Best regards,

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

> According to science (Harvard Mental Health Letter, February 2003 [hmiworld.org]) B12 is found in bananas,

I think this is a mistake, they probably transposed the B6 and B12 sources.

>and other plants (see J Nutr Sci Vitaminol (Tokyo). 2004 Dec;50(6):438-40, for example).

I have not read this one but a vegan RD on another forum who had read it provided a synposis, yes some is there but the amounts are so minute that they could not possibly satisfy a daily requirement. I don't remember if it was the corrin ring type (the true B12 for our body needs).

I don't think B12 content of all plant foods is zero. I think it is nonzero, if anything due to trace contamination by bacteria, but so small as to be insignificant in most cases. There are things you can do to your growing plants to increase their B12 uptake but but mentioning them creates antipathy because it is a distasteful option.

One should not rely on plants as a source of B12 unless one has an assay regularly to confirm that status is at least adequate.

Rawrrr! You're a hottie!

-----------------

I ate mono-meals of bell peppers, cucumber, zucchini, oranges, a banana and a salad today, and I feel like a million bucks!! Light, happy, energetic, clear- these are the things my body was designed to eat - low sugar fruits. I'm so happy I found this info!

You're a hottie too, Sunshine79! I saw your myspace.

Cheers to all raw 40+ women! Everyone of us are glowing!

I jotted down the list of low fructose fruit and today I bought some fresh organic strawberries from a farm a mile from my home. I'm very grateful, too, that you and Arugula, sparked up this topic.

oh thanks Rawrrr but that must be a different sunshine79 on myspace! I'm not on there... funny! I still have to post pics here, I've been kind of shy about putting my pic up on the internet...

Sunshine your box is full just to let you know. Empty it so i can send you a pm. And post a pic my dear. I;m sure your lovely.

xoxo,
Starfruit

" Your innate instincts are more important than any ideas imposed by others." Fully agree, Kwan!

Gosia


RawGosia channel
RawGosia streams

Done Starfruit, and sent you a PM!