Okay fresh,
here's one that is pretty irrefutable: people so often comment that they feel calm, centered and refreshed, inspired or even enlightened when they're juice-fasting at a level they don't experience when blending or eating raw foods. Of course there's no hard scientific double-blind study-type evidence, ;-p but I've encountered so many people for whom this is a common experience.

So even if juicing isn't better for you strictly from the standpoint of promoting better health, I would consider the possibility that it is far and away the superior method of finding inner peace and clarity.

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

kwan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Okay fresh,
> here's one that is pretty irrefutable: people so
> often comment that they feel calm, centered and
> refreshed, inspired or even enlightened when
> they're juice-fasting at a level they don't
> experience when blending or eating raw foods. Of
> course there's no hard scientific double-blind
> study-type evidence, ;-p but I've encountered so
> many people for whom this is a common experience.
>
>

I have no reason to doubt you

when juicing, we purify and simplify our diet.
we may lessen the energy required for digestion.
we stop eating foods that may be raw but questionable...

that's a different thing than making unsubstantiated claims about
cleansing,
alkalinizing,
mineralization,
that juice is "better" digested
(maybe whole foods are better assimilated -
fibers slows it down, more time to absorb),

* some don't seem to give our digestive system much credit

or blanket statements that it is vital.

Hi Fresh,

I think there is some evidence that juicing is superior in cases of people healing themselves from serious illnesses and especially green juices. Ann Wigmore in her time and Brian Clement at the Hippocrates Centre have helped people recover from all sorts of things, including cancer and an important part of their program is the use of wheatgrass and green juices. And the reason they use green juices is because they supposedly make the body more alkaline. People get ill when their bodies become too acidic. Brian is very anti fruit. According to him people should not eat any fruit at all whilst their bodies are still healing which can take a couple of years and after that adults should only eat 5% fruit per day and children 50% and it should be local fruit so it's tree ripened otherwise it will be acidic. According to Brian the only fruit that will still ripen properly away from the tree are bananas and avocados. All other fruit that has been picked unripe for sending abroad will be acidic. Now, I'm not saying this because Brian is my guru , if he was I wouldn't be trying to eat high fruit/low fat right now. And at Hippocrates they're giving people proper bloodtests so they must be able to see what drinking all these green juices does for people's bodies.

And there's Dr.Norman Walker. In his books he describes people healing themselves with his juice recepies. If I remember right he would eat cooked food at times even though he believed this to be detrimental to his health and used himself as a guinea pig to test his different juice combinations to see which ones worked best.

I'm not saying juicing is natural, just trying to find you the evidence you asked for.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2007 10:35PM by Frannie.

Hi Frannie,
Good points. Juicing has a long and venerable history of healing people with catastrophic illnesses-- especially cancer. Rarely do people use raw food alone in these cases; rather juicing or water fasting has proven to accelerate healing and rapidly detoxify the body.

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

I feel better when I juice. I feel more cleansed. I have no problems with any sugar rush. I feel the juice is "digested" better (for want of a better description). Up until last week I did a mix of juicing, blending and eating but was starting to feel a strong pull towards juicing. For this week, about 75% of what I consumed per day are juices and I going to continue to do that for the foreseeable future because I feel so much better. In fact, I'm gonna try to work my way up to 90%. Now this is my personal experience and this is the way I feel at this stage of my journey. I am not plugging one way or another. It may be different for others.

Frannie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Fresh,
>
> I think there is some evidence that juicing is
> superior in cases of people healing themselves
> from serious illnesses and especially green
> juices. Ann Wigmore in her time and Brian
> Clement at the Hippocrates Centre have helped
> people recover from all sorts of things....
>

yes i was aware of that, thanks.
that may be true, but i'm more of a
"the body heals after you stop poisoning yourself"
kind of person. note all the healing that occurs during the many cases of fasting that have been documented.

i remain open to change my position, but all
of the above is not convincing to me.
i'm sure you would agree that brian requires a "system" in order
to acquire paying customers. for him to say, just go home and
eat fruits and veggies, get rest and movement, etc, wouldn't pay
him very well. although i'm sure for some people, his educational
programs and environment are of great benefit.

Anaken thanks for your reply. I have been in the place of trying to live up to an "ideal" that just wasn't working for me (the first time I went raw and got even sicker!) and ended up gaining more strides with my health by eating cooked foods and working on my emotions for a while!!!

I am curious, have you heard Graham talk or talked with him? In my experience he is definitely not trying to win a popularity contest. It would be interesting to hear your questions of him posed to him live!

Love,
Uma

When fresh and others speak I feel like we are talking to D.G. directly, we've allready done it and heard his reply's.

Long ago I was on his board and his replys my posts would realy shock all of you.

elnatural

Fresh,

yes because if Clement said just go home and eat fruts and vegies they would die and he would be liable. just like Shelton and lockman when people die at their fasting camps.

other than that I don't care a lick about Clement, an easy example to dismiss on this forum especially since he dam hates fruit.

Fresh, why are we responsible to give 'science' to back up claims. For someone that's a "the body heals after you stop poisoning yourself" kind of person, you shure seem to want a good ammount of conventional science to back up your beliefs.

the first thing I wrote inclduded the word 'vital'.. after that I backed up my claims as to why..I gave tons of reasons. while these might not have all the 'facts' you require. I don't see how you presented facts to disprove anything. I'd like to hear your facts to disporve the following:

that when a body consumes vegetables it alters alkalinity...when this happens in great quantity and in a miniscul ammount of time (juice), it disrupts the cells that are used to an acid enviorment in a way that gradualy consuming whole foods (that you are right have appropriate levels of alakalinty that a pure human would need) would not.

this is the best way in my own words to describe it..if I can't use my experience to back it up..and thus but heads with your experience, this is the best I can do...I don't surf the net for such things and I don't own any books to point to.

I can say that I know people that constantly deal with people in major health crisis. The sicker they are..the worse they respond at first to juice..it makes them dizzy.

So now, juicing is good, but eating fruit is bad? Gee, common people, when will you stop.


RawGosia channel
RawGosia streams

Uma, I only know what I know

based on what I know about you for instance, it seems like you have a knack for figuring out what you need for sure. you are deffinelty reaching your goals.

i'm not sure I carry the knowledge to really but heads with Graham. I'm merely presenting 'concerns' I have with following his program (or the program of hygine) blindly. Personally I think this forum its important to present alternative concepts ( i don't care to be devoured by dogs on vegsource) in case people are running into problems (only to be answered with: rest, diet, sun, exercise) or just curious about greater (as in more) knowledge. I don't even believe these concepts need to be 'proved' if they are comming from a place of love and concern although not of cource not from egoism or paranoia). people can sift through whats right for them, no one is burried


as for the popularity contest, I kinda like that about him..I do think he's disrupting certain conventions in a positive way for sure. I more disagree with some of the foundations his ideas are built on them him, himself. so I can agree about certain principles and look to include others when more general issues of health are at stake.

Pictures were just taken, my most recent juice experience

all this produce goes into my daily juice


the finished juice, comes out dark red


the tastless cardboard pulp that people are raving about here


elnatural ready for another transfusion

Is that...raw meat, el_natural? How do you juice that? Does it go in with your veggie juice as well?

Sarah
[goingbananasblog.com]

anaken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


> just like Shelton and lockman when people
> die at their fasting camps.

can you provide some more details for the above ?


>I'd like
> to hear your facts to disporve the following:
> that when a body consumes vegetables it alters
> alkalinity...when this happens in great quantity
> and in a miniscul ammount of time (juice), it
> disrupts the cells that are used to an acid
> enviorment in a way that gradualy consuming whole
> foods (that you are right have appropriate levels
> of alakalinty that a pure human would need) would
> not.
>

you could be right.

i'm surprised that there is no data on this issue.

and it's not my job to disprove something that someone else is claiming.

i simply hesitate to make fuzzy,
seemingly unfounded statements,
and i tend to question it when i hear it, just to annoy people ;-)

it's not meat.. it's the pulp seperated from the juice of the fruits & veggies.

OHHHHH hahaha

Thanks for clarifying. I feel like a dork now, but my husband and I both looked at that pic and we really thought it was meat... although that green stuff on top was suspect.

Guess you can tell I'm one of those dumb non-juicing people.

Sarah
[goingbananasblog.com]

sparkler
There is a caption above every picture telling what they are. Rawrrr! is correct. It's all of the pulp from the produce in the first picture. It's dry like card board and has no taste to it at all. Does it look appitizing to anyone? Cculd you make a meal of it? I will send it free to any one who wants it?

Rawrrr?
Loved your cave woman post. Can't get much more natural than that.

Kwan
I live what you say and know about juicing. People who have never met be before even before I say a word will say stuff like this. You are so peacefull,tranquill,and laid back etc. I'm getting very close to going on all juice again for awhile. Spring is here and it's a good time.

elnatural

elnatural_1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When fresh and others speak I feel like we are
> talking to D.G. directly, we've allready done it
> and heard his reply's.

I wonder what the value and purpose of this statement is.


i've already mentioned one topic with which i disagree with dg.
there are others, for example, i disagree with his stance on the b12 issue.
i also disagree with him on the value of cardio.
i'm sure there are others.


>
> Long ago I was on his board and his replys my
> posts would realy shock all of you.
>
> elnatural

yes, part of the reason for that was that you asked him for his view on juicing. he voiced his opinion. then you repeatedly posted virtually the same thing over and over, trying to convince him of your view.

elnatural_1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> the tastless cardboard pulp that people are raving
> about here

what do you mean?

elnatural_1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> sparkler
> There is a caption above every picture telling
> what they are. Rawrrr! is correct. It's all of the
> pulp from the produce in the first picture. It's
> dry like card board and has no taste to it at all.
> Does it look appitizing to anyone? Cculd you make
> a meal of it? I will send it free to any one who
> wants it?

Yeah I see the captions now. Somehow I missed them last night. What do you do with all that pulp... compost?

Hello there sparkler

I don't have a garden now, other wise I would compost it, so it all goes in the garbage. Here's an ecological point to juicing that I just thought of. I just kept all of that out of the water system. Read between the lines.

elnatural_1

throwing stuff in the garbage doesnt keep it out of the water system ....

Sanitary landfills and garbage dumps are major sources of groundwater contamination. Solid waste in such landfills and dumps contains food, paper, plastics, metals and toxic materials such as lead, mercury, cadmium, poisons and pesticides. Waste disposal areas threaten ground water because rain and moisture wash out metals and organic material, called leachates, from the waste. It is a process similar to the way tea washes from a teabag when it is dunked into a cup of hot water.

Scientists estimate that one 40.47-hectare landfill in a moist area yields between 172 million and 308.5 million litres each year of washed Out chemicals and metals--leachates. Typically, these leachates contain chloride, lead, copper and sodium nitride.

[www.lehigh.edu]

You can compost regardless if you use it in a garden. Eventually you may use it.

I have to tell everyone I have found this thread extremely helpful. Thanks to everyone for all your posts.

I think it makes since, if my body is ill, that it would be a healing step to get all the nutrition from a food without my body having to do the work of digesting it. I would never be able to digest all the foods I put in my juice as a whole food but may be needing the benefit of a super boost of nutrition. I can relate to rawrr's cavewoman idea best. If someone were hurt or sick we would give them just the liquid from the food to heal them. Not only does it make since to me but it also makes me feel good to driink juice.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> and for those who claim amazing things happen
> while juicing. while that is wonderful, these
> sensations can happen on water "fasting" or mono
> meal eating, or spinning around in a circle, or
> doing drugs, or listening to music, or whatever.

how do you know these things make my body feel equal to juicing?! You know the saying about assuming things...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2007 03:21PM by Rawrrr!.

Rawrrr! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fresh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > and for those who claim amazing things happen
> > while juicing. while that is wonderful, these
> > sensations can happen on water "fasting" or
> mono
> > meal eating, or spinning around in a circle, or
> > doing drugs, or listening to music, or whatever.
>
>
> how do you know these things make my body feel
> equal to juicing?! You know the saying about
> assuming things...

hello rawrrr,

well, i wasn't talking about your body - but only because i can only see your head. otherwise, i'm sure i would have been talking about your body .

but seriously, I don't know.

ok. i give up. juicing rules !! long live juicing !

actually, like i said, someone gave us a juicer...
then, i got a whole box of romaine for $5 !!, so i thought, hey, why
not join those lunatics ! oops, I mean, the juicing club!

i thought, I'll never eat all this lettuce before it goes bad.

so i did. and i found out it's almost as good as spinning around,
but not quite as good as eating a mango with my bare hands...which is
almost as good as, well, you know...

later !

fresh wrote:
> ok. i give up. juicing rules !! long live
> juicing !


Ok klan!, fresh is waving a white flag & has surrendered. HURRAY!!!

Seriously though, try juicing both the mango AND the romaine, and it is better than spinning on your head hip hop-dancing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2007 06:47PM by Rawrrr!.

Darth Tater:

To clarify about me on the DG board years ago.

I was posting about high greens on the DG board. I was not asking any questions, I was answering everybodies questions.

DG reacted with shocking violence against me for talking about greens to the other people on the board!

elnatural

anaken Wrote:

> i'm not sure I carry the knowledge to really but
> heads with Graham. I'm merely presenting
> 'concerns' I have with following his program (or
> the program of hygine) blindly.

i think it's great that you have concerns.

you don't have to butt heads...

it would be a good thing to have your good questions posed to him, and have him answer the questions himself.

you might be surprised.

in fact, compile your concerns and i will post them there, so you can remain anon.

not trying to force you to do anything, just think it would be interesting.

then maybe we can stop talking about him here ;-)

Harmony Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Darth Tater:
>
> [i115.photobucket.com]
> sabersmile.gif

This is cracking me up.

Sarah
[goingbananasblog.com]