I'd like to hear feedback on some very potent antioxidants that you cannot readily get from raw fooding:

1) Turmeric. Yes, I know it's a spice, but have you ever tasted it? It does not agree with me in the least, so I have no choice but to take a supplement.

2) Green tea extract. Yes, I can drink minimally steeped tea, but in order to get the therapeutic benefits of catechins, you must drink five cups a day. I can't even stomach one.

3) CO Q 10. Are there foods naturally rich in this?

4) Garlic. Again, to reap the therapeautic effects, I'd have to eat three whole raw cloves a day. This is not doable.

5) Sulphurophane. I take this only when I do not eat raw cabbage; I can't always get to the store often enough to maintain my cabbage supply.

6) Indole 3 carbinol. Same as above, except it applies to spinach.

7) Fish oil. I've run out of almonds and haven't had a chance to replenish my supply.

8) Calcium. I know some vegetables contain calcium, but my protocol is 1,500 mg a day.

9) Lycopene. I can only eat so many raw tomato bits in a salad at a time.

Shellbi...

i guess i just have an opinion... i am one of those, grap, peel, eat types of raw. i couldn't imagine worrying about anything on your list.. but mostly because i don't know what it is.... or why my body needs it, or feel in any way that i am missing these things.....

you seem to really care about your health, and i look forward to reading others answers... maybe i should be worried bout these things...

Love and Light

Tiffntwins

`•.¸¸.•´¯`•.¸.´¯`•...¸><((((º>

SWIM FREE FISHES!

1. Not sure what the antioxidant is that your getting in this but i think you mean but i am assuming curcuminoids ...if not sorry hehe . Turmeric comes from the root of the plant .. if the dried spice itself is unagreeable to you maybe try the fresh root (grow a plant yourself and try it) if that doesnt work i guess youre stuck with the pills if you feel its nessecary to get that particular antioxident in your diet

2.catechins are food tannins and are found in fruits such as plums, apples, peaches, strawberries and cherries, and beans such as broad beans and lentils, as well as cocoa, are rich sources of catechins.

3. About half of the Coenzyme Q10 in your body is made in your liver and the rest comes from food. Many foods have some amount in them. Good sources are Spinach, Peanuts,soy, canola oil, wheat germ, rice bran. However, even these have just small amounts. So it's a good thing that your body doesn't need much. Your body does need plenty of vitamin C, vitamin E, the B vitamins and selenium to properly make CoQ10.

4. you dont need to chew the garlic you can chop it up and swallow the peices .. powerded garlic is hugely less powerful then the raw whole stuff. a comparison between raw garlic and powdered garlic shoes The difference in values reflects a potential loss of 40% of the alliin due to the powdering process.

5. also found in brocolli , but as you said if you cant get to the store ..what else can you do

6. same as above lol

7. fish oil, assuming your talking about the omega3,6,9's .. there is plenty vegan sources for this , killing fish is cruel [www.fishinghurts.com] this is a vegan forum so i dont have anything to say about it

8. Calcium is great on so many levels if you dont feel you can get enough from your raw fruits and vegetables , then id suggest at least a vegan source supplement if it makes you feel better .. it certainly will make the cows feel better if you moo .. err do .. PETA has great vids on cow cruelty if yer so inclined to watch

9. try watermelon a great source of lycopene too, or any orther red/orange/purple fruit or vegetable has it

i used to take handfulls of vitamin , minerals, pills, potions, lotions, everyday before getting sick and they didnt help (obviously lol) and now spend my money on whole foods .. and have been cancer free for 5 years now so far so good (i started raw 5 years ago to help with the recovery from surgeries and chemo, although ive never been 100% for anylonger then a few weeks at a time but 75-100% most days).. i guess id have to say .. my opinion is .. my moneys on the fresh ALIVE raw stuff over supplements lol

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2007 08:29PM by Jgunn.

In general, those are things you need to worry about if eating a SAD diet. Antioxidants come from fresh fruit and vegetables, if you are filling up on bread and sugar foods then you need to worry about where the antioxidants are coming from, but eating raw with lots of fresh fruit and veg, no problem.

Fish oil: people usually take fish oil for omega 3's, you want flax and hemp for these.

Calcium: Some say the rda is overstated in favour of the dairy industry, but even so, it would be fairly easy to get 1500mg from a raw diet, some examples:

mg
488 50g sesame seeds (with hull)
100 100g of spinach or watercress
180 3 oranges
241 1 cup (150g) dried figs
---
1009mg

If you add up the calcium you get from other stuff in a day, you would probably be covered, but by eating 100g of sesame seeds you would also do it.

[www.nutritiondata.com] has a nutrient search tool which allows you to find foods high in particular nutrients.

Rob

--
Rob Hull - Funky Raw
My blog: [www.rawrob.com]

Here is why these items are very important:

1) Turmeric. Kills cancer cells in lab studies.

2) Green tea extract. Kills cancer cells in lab studies.

3) CO Q 10. Kills breast cancer cells in lab studies.

4) Garlic. Great for cardiovascular health, and...kills cancer cells in lab studies.

5) Sulphurophane. Kills breast cancer cells in lab studies.

6) Indole 3 carbinol. Kills breast cancer cells in lab studies.

7) Fish oil. Supreme source of omega 3 fatty acids.

8) Calcium. Prevents osteoporosis/keeps bones strong.

9) Lycopene. Anti-cancer compound.

Flax seeds,

I have always heard that eating the whole seed, it will go straight through your body, and the only way to get its nutrients is to eat them ground up. So I'm wondering if I'm getting anything worthwhile from my flax seed crackers

if eating the whole foods is unagreeable you can also try juicing mass quantities of the stuff

lots of folks here support juicing (i do as well) but its easier for me to sling bags of produce around with me all day

ima klutz with liquids

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Shellbi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is why these items are very important:
>
> 1) Turmeric. Kills cancer cells in lab studies.
> (etc)

And raw food diets/ green juices are used to cure cancer.

A lot of cooked food contains carcinogens, hence the need for all these anti-cancer foods. Just don't eat the cancer causing food to begin with!

Rob

--
Rob Hull - Funky Raw
My blog: [www.rawrob.com]

I am very big on juicing, actually.

But it's very expensive in that it takes, for instance, a ton of cabbage to get just two ounces of juice from it. Nine ounces of organic blueberries convert to four or five ounces of juice...but nine ounces of organic blueberries out here costs $8 !!

I can't eat blueberries whole; can't stand the taste, same with blackberries and raspberries. I can tolerate strawberries if I'm really hungry. As I move more toward a more raw diet, I can see that a lot of my food will be in the form of the seed crackers, chocolate balls, nuts and sunflower seeds, plus what juicing of fruits I can afford. It's a very expensive way to eat. (I know what you're thinking...illness is even more expensive...)

hehe .. funky rob .. cure the CAUSE not the CONDITION =p so true so true

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

yea i hear ya about the expense ,,, but i used to spend 100-200 dollars a month on supplements and just find the money better spent on whole foods ..

maybe thats alot .. it was for me, but i dont know how much your are spending (or thinking of spending) on supplements

some say test your supplements in lemon juice or vinegar , if they dissolve withen 30 minutes then your stomach is absorbing them otherwise their getting peed out

i dont know how much of this i beleive as stomach acid is wayyyyy stronger then vinegar or lemon juice for one ... and 2. things are absorbed in the intestines as well ... so maybe its just a bunch of HOOOOEY lol

just taking vitamin C i used to pee yellow almost immediately .. well im pretty sure im getting tons of vit c nowadays ..and my pee is not neon yellow like it was when i was taking pills lol

also im not sure what kind of juicer your using as ther definitely is better juicers out there that dont waste your product as much as the cheaper ones

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Shellbi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am very big on juicing, actually.
>
> But it's very expensive in that it takes, for
> instance, a ton of cabbage to get just two ounces
> of juice from it. Nine ounces of organic
> blueberries convert to four or five ounces of
> juice...but nine ounces of organic blueberries out
> here costs $8 !!
>
> I can't eat blueberries whole; can't stand the
> taste, same with blackberries and raspberries. I
> can tolerate strawberries if I'm really hungry. As
> I move more toward a more raw diet, I can see that
> a lot of my food will be in the form of the seed
> crackers, chocolate balls, nuts and sunflower
> seeds, plus what juicing of fruits I can afford.
> It's a very expensive way to eat. (I know what
> you're thinking...illness is even more
> expensive...)

shellbi,


i have some feedback for you.

learn more about the raw lifestyle first, then you will be able to answer your own questions and you will understand more about why you don't like blueberries and why you for some reason think that you will need to eat crackers, chocolate balls, etc. - and how to do this lifestyle inexpensively, etc.

this is not meant as a criticism. it's just a waste of your time and others time to jump into something without some level of study.

hey shellbi btw im curious what happened to your article you were writing .. did it get published? do you have a link or copy of what you wrote?

would be cool to see what came of it

you wrote:
I Want to interview you (you were looking for frutarian1) for an article I'm writing about raw foods and muscle, for a national magazine.

currrrrrrious =)

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Jgunn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> yea i hear ya about the expense ,,, but i used to
> spend 100-200 dollars a month on supplements and
> just find the money better spent on whole foods
> ..
>
> maybe thats alot .. it was for me, but i dont know
> how much your are spending (or thinking of
> spending) on supplements
>
> some say test your supplements in lemon juice or
> vinegar , if they dissolve withen 30 minutes then
> your stomach is absorbing them otherwise their
> getting peed out
>
> i dont know how much of this i beleive as stomach
> acid is wayyyyy stronger then vinegar or lemon
> juice for one ... and 2. things are absorbed in
> the intestines as well ... so maybe its just a
> bunch of HOOOOEY lol
>
> just taking vitamin C i used to pee yellow almost
> immediately .. well im pretty sure im getting tons
> of vit c nowadays ..and my pee is not neon yellow
> like it was when i was taking pills lol
>
> also im not sure what kind of juicer your using as
> ther definitely is better juicers out there that
> dont waste your product as much as the cheaper
> ones

Where better to learn than on this forum??? How many magazines out there are devoted to the raw lifestyle? I personally do not know any raw foodists. I'd rather get my info from live people than narratives on web sites. Go easy on me.

ERROR in posting, I don't know how I quoted Jgunn when I meant to quote "Fresh."

My reply to Jgunn was meant for Fresh. Fresh has something of an attitude.

JGUNN,

To answer your question about the magazine article.

I came upon three names of women who claimed they cured their cancer by going 100 percent raw, and they rejected conventional medical treatment.

However, get this: The first woman I heard about from a forum user here, and I contacted the woman by phone and left a message. The woman never called me back. Hmmm...

The second woman claims a breast cancer reversal on the Living Nutrition archives; mammogram showed a mass; two years later, the mass was gone. I tracked down the e-mail address of her daughter. The daughter was vague, reluctant to share the info for my article, and was aloof. Hmmm...

Third woman, I contacted by phone. This woman spent 10 minutes telling me she didn't have time to chat about her "cure," and she told me to read her book instead. Hmmmm...

The article is strictly narrative with two experts quoted. Not many people with cancer want to take a gamble and shun conventional medical treatment and see if raw foods will cure them, though many people with non-life threatening conditions obviously have healed after going raw. It seems as though cancer would be on this same continuum, so keep doing what you're doing.

very cool honestly now looking back i feel i was forced into the operations although ultimately it was my decision but there was a huge amount of fearmongering going on

if i thought id had more time or the ability at the time to research things better i honestly dont know what kinda decision ida come too. im quite sure though that if i was ever told i had any sort of inoperable cancer or any other disease where there was *NOTHING* they could do i would certainly take it into my own hands through diet and supplements and whatever else ..to heal myself or at least extend my time here

but that is neither here nor there .. ifound this site after the fact and have been ultimately gratefull for it since

*bows down thank you thank you thank you John*

i truly beleive my raw journey since then has kept me going and getting healthier by the day we cant all have everything but im sure thankful for the things i have and have learned

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/15/2007 02:28AM by Jgunn.

To date no one can for sure prove the specific benefits of antioxidants. We assume we need them, however who do we trust to know exactly how much of something we need?
Each person is different and each person's needs are different. I personally do not trust generalized scientific recommendations, they do not know my body like I do. I feel that all health stems back to one's diet. Obviously, the Raw diet has many benefits and if we can get enough variety of veggies, nuts, etc. then we really have to need to worry. Base it all on how you feel. Feel good? Have energy, strength? Then just continue what you're doing. Trust your instincts, not what everyone else tells you is "right" for you. Live in light, Earthlover

Oh and beware that most supplements contain geletin!

Broccoli sprouts have up to 50 times the sulphurophanes of raw broccoli, I've been buying them at wholefoods but plan to start sprouting them (and other sprouts) at home. Great for detox and also cancer prevention.

As Rob said, sesame seeds are a great for calcium, they can be soaked or sprouted.

Turmeric is getting lots of attention lately, if I could source some fresh turmeric I might include it in some green juices.

Crushed garlic is great in a fresh made salsa on top of some mashed avocado.

Fish oil, definitely the best source of EPA and DHA, as conversion from plant sources of omega 3 appears to be weak.

For lycopene, watermelon works, also cherry tomatoes are very tasty eaten out of hand, especially if homegrown.

Another great product for cancer fighting are the medicinal mushrooms like maitake, reishi, shiitake, agaricus and cordyceps. They can be purchased in pill form or whole form to be brewed as tea.

Shellbi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ERROR in posting, I don't know how I quoted Jgunn
> when I meant to quote "Fresh."
>
> My reply to Jgunn was meant for Fresh. Fresh has
> something of an attitude.


Shellbi has responded to me personally and I in return provided a brief response….

I stated that I was not being critical, simply suggesting some more research.
Any attitude attributed to my words may not be correct.

In addition….

I am not able to get my posts checked by a lawyer to insure that they are not going to offend anyone.

Some people will respond to posts in a certain way.
I may respond in a way that some may not like, but there are many reasons for it.

Here’s a few…

I think that it is lazy to ask others to provide answers, especially when the scope is large.
I think many people nowadays are not willing to do their own study, and expect to be given the answers.
I think that we should not approach a new lifestyle as if we already have all the answers, which is what you seem to be doing.

Consider …. I belonged to a group once where the moderator would not even
Allow anybody to submit a question without ALSO submitting their own possible answer.
This promotes some advance thinking and personal responsibility.

Shellbi said..

>Where better to learn than on this forum??? How many magazines out there are devoted to the raw lifestyle? I personally do not know any raw foodists. I'd rather get my info from live people than narratives on web sites.

You did not come to the board with an attitude of openness and willingness to learn.
You came with a list of demands and absolute statements.

And there are many many resources available where one can get a good fundamental understanding of this lifestyle. You did not ask for any resources at all and have clearly
Not done basic investigation. most of your “questions” are loaded already with the answers.
Your questions posed in a way in which they are counterproductive to learning something new.

>I'd like to hear feedback on some very potent antioxidants that you cannot readily get from raw fooding:

Above you make an absolute statement that one cannot readily get certain antioxidants.
So you’ve already made up your mind on this issue.

In fact, you might want to learn a bit more about these things from a raw philosophy…and what should one do about cancer and what causes cancer, and if these antioxidants Are necessary, etc, etc…


>1) Turmeric. Yes, I know it's a spice, but have you ever tasted it? It does not agree with me in the least, so I have no choice but to take a supplement.

Well, you apparently must take turmeric and you have no choice but to take a supplement, so there’s your answer.

>2) Green tea extract. Yes, I can drink minimally steeped tea, but in order to get the therapeutic benefits of catechins, you must drink five cups a day. I can't even stomach one.

That is a problem. What would you suggest? Any ideas?

>8) Calcium. I know some vegetables contain calcium, but my protocol is 1,500 mg a day.

Your protocol? Are you aware that nutrient intake is not the whole story?
That actions that conserve nutrients are just as important or more so?

>9) Lycopene. I can only eat so many raw tomato bits in a salad at a time.

Again, a better way would be to look into this topic and determine whether there is A problem or issue with lycopene or not.

The raw diet is not about the above “nutrients”
It comes from a completely different perspective.
If you don’t understand that perspective, what do you hope to gain with your current protocol and paradigm and questions?

Like someone else said, it’s not about “killing” cancer. It’s about avoiding it.
And if you have it, the protocol is likely the same as the avoidance of it.

But if you would prefer to send in little anti cancer missiles, then you should do that.
It does not align with basic raw lifestyle philosophy.

Re: fish oil

This is a vegan forum and promoting fish oil is not allowed here. If you feel you need to continue to support the consumption of animal products, you may find your user account disabled.

Shelbi to answer your question...my mom had cancer....and went went to OHI and got rid of it...(optimum health institute) by eating raw..and she might be willing to talk with a total stranger claiming to be writing an article...but it doesn't mean she isn't healed from it you know in this world these days you never know what kind of weirdo or freak may be lurking and people are wary...so that might of been it too..not trying to offend you or say you are a weirdo haha..i was just saying that if some random person called you to ask about your health and personal life you might not be so willing to chat their ear off

oh and jgunn was not asking about the article you were talking about for cancer....we are wondering if you ever had your article published you were looking for fruitarian for..the big national magazine?? i for one wouldl ike to buy the magazine and read the article!!!
thanks
love earthangel
xoxoxoxoxoxo

Much peace and love!!!
EarthAngel
Xoxo

[1) Turmeric. Yes, I know it's a spice, but have you ever tasted it? It does not agree with me in the least, so I have no choice but to take a supplement.]

No, you don't need it.

[2) Green tea extract. Yes, I can drink minimally steeped tea, but in order to get the therapeutic benefits of catechins, you must drink five cups a day. I can't even stomach one.]

No, you don't need it. There has never been a study showing that 5 cups of green tea is more health promoting than a prudent raw vegan diet. And my very strong opinion here is that there never will be.

[3) CO Q 10. Are there foods naturally rich in this?]

You will get enough if your E intake is adequate (from food, not supplements)

[4) Garlic. Again, to reap the therapeautic effects, I'd have to eat three whole raw cloves a day. This is not doable.]

You don't need it.

[5) Sulphurophane. I take this only when I do not eat raw cabbage; I can't always get to the store often enough to maintain my cabbage supply.]

Any raw crucifer is good, it's good to eat them daily. You can alternate cabbages of all kinds, kale, broccoli, collards, brussels sprouts, broccoli sprouts, arugula, turnip greens, etc etc. I have some every day.

[6) Indole 3 carbinol. Same as above, except it applies to spinach.]

You don't need a supplement, just eat some spinach now and then.

[7) Fish oil. I've run out of almonds and haven't had a chance to replenish my supply.]

You don't need this, what you need is a correct omega6mega3 ratio in your plant food diet and adequate alpha-linolenic acid intake.

[8) Calcium. I know some vegetables contain calcium, but my protocol is 1,500 mg a day.]

If you aren't getting enough calcium from your food you probably aren't making the right choices. 1500 mg/day is too much.

[9) Lycopene. I can only eat so many raw tomato bits in a salad at a time.]

You don't need to go out of your way to get a high intake of this from food, it isn't going to protect you.

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

we live off life force, not nutrients..

coconutcream Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> we live off life force, not nutrients..

Tell it to the people living off of parenteral and enteral nutrition.

They live off nutrients, not life force.

So, you don't like to eat any of these foods, let alone in high amounts, but you think your body "needs" the isolated compounds from things that repulse you. I think that is quite a backwards way to approach life; our body responds to foods in relation to whether it needs what is inside of them or not; if you really needed all of this, then you would have strong cravings for big bowls of all of those foods. I personally got tested for all sorts of nutrient deficiencies after two and a half years of a 100% raw life without taking any of the pills you mentioned, and they found I was in perfect health and certainly didn't have cancer, either. A normal 100% raw vegan diet is enough to prevent cancer.

Force the change you want to see in the world through direct, socialist democracy!

[www.dreamingearth.net]

I suggest in all sincerity that you do a lot of reading about rawfoodism, and natural hygiene to gain more of an understanding of what this lifestyle is all about. No other creature has to worry (meaning they wouldn't even if they could,heh) about what nutrients they are getting, they just eat their natural diet.

Raw foods--fruits, greens, etc--comprise our natural diet. And this takes care of our health and vitality. We do not have a turmeric deficiency. We get amino acids from our food, our body does not manufacture our own vit C because when we eat our natural diet--- we get so much of it from the fruit, etc etc,---we don't have to worry about these things. I love being able to leave all that to the allopathic medicine groups. This is something so different. It is about providing our cells with the natural food so designated by our physiology and biology and, provided with this food and no toxins (which is the category so many so called supplements fall into), the body will heal itself and function well without 5 cups of green tea, etc etc.

It's freedom from all that! Hallelujah!

I think there's a transitional period at the beginning of the raw food journey, where one weans oneself away from the nutrient-based approach and gravitates to the life force approach, while cleansing and purfiying the body so that it can assimilate the life force; and that can take a little time and a lot of wisdom. I'm guessing it can take anywhere from 2-10 years, depending on many factors too numerous to mention.

Sometimes people have symptoms of nutritional deficiency that they have to deal with for awhile-- for instance, even Dr. Graham says he had to take vitamin B12 at one point because he got overly stressed-- but eventually with persistence and instinctive wisdom, the body 'comes into its own' and one is able to stop relying on substances other than food to maintain optimal health.

That's my take on it, anyway.

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

sure, I think there is certainly no harm early on ones path to eating a wide variety of healthful foods in order to get a wide variety of nutrients. but ultimately it comes down to cleansing/vitality. Personally I don't think all the hygenic stuff applies at all levels. Things like garlic and herbs might actually aid in this process. like with the omegas, even with unhealthy individuals the nutrient thing probably has to do more with getting the right ratios of vitamins and minerals, this is just an assumption of course, but getting high doses of concentrated vitamins and minerals extracted artificially in the form of pills or oils. added to the equation seems contrary to alternative approaches to health...funny its still the normal way of thinking...